Deathwatch vs Genestealer Cult Boxed Game

[Bigred]

Original rumors via 75hastings69 2-17-2015


Not MaybeDeathwatch
Genestealer Cult

via 75hastings69 5-1-2015


Anyone here remember the little guessing game we had about releases?Most of it can be found here…….So you’ll see in there the assassins game (correct)
HH Game (I guess time will tell )
… and amongst the other stuff….

G/S Cult Codex & Models (Harlequin sized release)
Deathwatch Codex & Models (Harlequin sized release)

….. well, I may have gotten myself a bit confused about what these actually were, it seems we “may” be seeing these two as a combined set in some fashion, whether that’s as another standalone game or as a “starter/campaign” set is yet unclear, although I’m going to assume that these would be unusual choices for a starter box.

via BoLS anonymous source 11-15-2016


Look for the Deathwatch to arrive in the Grimdark in 2016.
They will make their initial appearance in a boxed boardgame like Execution Force / Betrayal at Calth.
The Deathwatch models are based around a new Deathwatch upgrade sprue.
The sprue will contain items such the distinctive shoulderpads, and specialist equipment and weapons of the Deathwatch.
The Deathwatch sprue will be bundled atop the Sternguard base kit in the boardgame.
The game will allow for you to equip your Killteam’s weapons and equipment in a variety of ways with rules to support them all.
As with Betrayal at Calth – these are standard 40K models fully usable outside the boardgame.
There will be an opposing force the Deathwatch is pitted against with their own models in the box.



via sadpanda (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/678885.page)2-5-2016

You don't have to wait till May for that one. (regarding Deathwatch vs Genestealer Cult game)


Hmmmm...

Deathwatch miniatures in the boxed game are all mono-pose characters (think Space Hulk, except with normal bases). Sternguard rumors are nonsense. One is possibly the first dedicated Blood Ravens mini by GW (feel free to correct me there. My GW-history-fu is weak)?

Lots of cultists, a few pure genestealers, another new broodlord.

Multi-part kits later this year.


via White Dwarf 108 2-15-2016

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via dakka's Kanluwen (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/671862.page)2-15-2016

Preorders on the 27th.

via sadpanda (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/671862.page) 2-16-2016


This is main studio. It is in hard plastic and the miniatures can be used in 40K without conversions.

People underestimate the lead time on those boxed games / starter sets in plastic.

The Dea****ch game was finished by the time EF was released.
The AoS-themed boxed game you'll see this summer was finished by the time the AoS starter was released.
The second HH boxed game this fall was finished by the time Calth was released.

The specialist games studio was launched a little more than a month ago. The teased Blood Bowl stuff was probably the first work this team did after starting their new jobs in January. It will likely be among the first things they will release, and I don't think they are aiming for 2016.

via captain citadel 2-17-2016

A mate of mine passed along that GW has blacked out the following dates for their store employees: Feb 28, Apr 16, and May 7th. I assume that means big releases on those dates.

via BoLS (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/02/must-see-death-watch-minis-sighted-go-go-go.html) 2-18-2016


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DarkChaplain

"I was right. It IS the 10 Deathwatch characters from the BL stories."

Ultramarines: Vael Donatus
Blood Angels: Antor Delassio
Dark Angels: Zameon Gydrael
Space Wolves: Drenn Redblade
Iron Hands: Ennox Sorrlock
White Scars: Jetek Suberei
Imperial Fists: Rodricus Grytt
Raven Guard: Edryc Setorax
Salamanders: Garran Branatar
Blood Raven: Jensus Natorian

Riot

Same characters than BL books

Minis Seen So Far:
Edryc Setorax
Vael Donatus
Zaemon Gydrael
Antor Delassio
Rodricus Grytt
Ennox Sorlock

With perhaps other potential characters: (to make a squad of 10)

Drenn Redblade
Jetek Suberei
Garran Branatar
Jensus Natorian

That leaves Blood Ravens, Salamanders, White Scars Space Wolves as possibly having unseen minis!


via Games Workshop 2-19-2016


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWlZUaxNPW8
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via Bonespace, dakkadakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1140/671862.page;jsessionid=4CBF1E7C447656894D9F57300A6 EFB3C#top) 2-22-2016



Games Workshop wrote:
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Deathwatch: Overkill – Suffer not the alien to live! A brand new game in a box. Deathwatch: Overkill tells the story of the discovery of the Warhammer 40.000 Genestealer Cult (Tyranids) by the elite Deathwatch Space Marine kill squad on the mining world of Ghosar Quintus.
Deathwatch: Overkill is a standalone game with lots of new Space Marine and Genestealers Cult (Tyranid) miniatures that can also be used in a regular Warhammer 40.000 game. The miniatures can be used for this game, or they can be used straight in a regular Tyranids army or one of the many Space Marine chapters (without having to convert them). The rules for the Space Marines will be in White Dwarf 109 and for the Tyranids in White Dwarf 110. In addition the datasheets will be available from our website.
DEATHWATCH: OVERKILL – WHAT’S IN THE BOX?
A brand new game in a box, telling the story of the discovery of the Warhammer 40.000 Genestealers Cult (Tyranids). The box contains:
50x brand new highly detailed plastic miniatures, with lots of little details depicting character background information.
The miniatures have a dynamic single pose and will require glue and assembly (they are not push fit). The miniatures can be divided into two camps:
The Genestealer Cult
These veteran Space Marines will make great champions for any Space Marine army!
11x individual Space Marine Veteran Champions (equivalent to approximately £ 215 / € 275 retail normally)

The Deathwatch Kill team
A brand new Warhammer 40.000 fraction! The below list of miniatures make for addition to an original Tyranid army, an allied detachment to another army, or a great start for a brand new Tyranids army! This box contains the following Genestealers Cult miniatures
· 12 Acolyte Hybrids (1st and 2nd generation Tyranids)
· 16 Neophyte Cultists (3rd generation Tyranids)
· 2x Purestrain Genestealers
· 2x Familiars
· 4x Aberrants
· 1x Patriarch
· 1x Magus
· 1x Primus
· A 48-page rulebook with all the rules (just 3 pages, so it will be easy and quick game), character explanation, the background story, and 9x different missions. (Each scenario acts out one of the stages of the storyline. Each scenario will last between 30mins to 2 hours and will give a lot of playability)
· 8x double sided board tiles with different landscapes.
· A deck of 12x reference character cards and 30x Broodmind ambush and mission cards, to offer even more variation to the game so that each game will be different.
· A booklet with assembly instructions
· Gaming accessories such as markers, templates and 6 dice.


via Scanner (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?29784-Readable-Space-Wolf-Rules) 2-29-2016


Genestealer Cult Allies - Tyranids!

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[energongoodie]

via Warhammer 40 Campaigns (https://www.facebook.com/Warhammer-40k-Campaigns-518558484848481/)(and various others on Facebook) 2-20-2016


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----------------Original Post Below------------------------------------------

Can't wait for this.

Surely a little Deathwatch codex and a little cult codex would sell a tonne of models?

I have so, so many marines...I would buy more to be deathwatch.

I want a cult army real bad. It was the army only the coolest kids had back in the day. I will go in hard for that if it happens.

[Patrick Boyle]

via imgur (http://imgur.com/0g1hBD8)2-20-2016
Full Spread


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----------------Original Post Below---------------------------

The part that most interests me is one of the Deathwatch members is supposedly a Blood Raven. Yay for an official model, if it comes true. Can't wait for the picture leaks next week, hope they didn't confuse him with a Blood Angel...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/678885.page#8431347

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Deathwatch Data Sheets!
via Scanner, Spikeybits Forum (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup&p=237945&viewfull=1#post237945) 2-23-2016


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------------------Original Post Below---------------------------


It's about time, that will get two more new armies that people want out there too. Been wondering what modern genestealer cult armies would look like. Can't wait to see the plastic!

[Mr Mystery]

Deathwatch Box Contents
via Scanner, Spikeybits Forum (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup&p=237934&viewfull=1#post237934) 2-23-2016


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via spikeybits (http://www.spikeybits.com/?p=121064&preview=true)3-29-2016

Tempestus Scions come to Deathwatch Overkill


178651786617867

--------------------Original Post Below-------------------

If people are fibbing about hybrids, Mystery Industries does a fine line in high end retributive consumables.

Will you go with the 'STOP GETTING MY HOPES UP' Brick? A bargain at £9.99.

Perhaps your more of a 'Lie Blocker 9,000' Cricket Bat? One whack, and they tighten their tongue. A mere £29.99!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Genestealer Cult Rules for two units:
via Omega-soul, B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303604-rumours-deathwatch-overkill-deathwatch-rules-pg-29/page-34#entry4316343) 2-23-2016


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----------------------Original Post Below-----------------------------


So last year we had harlequins and mechanicum, htis year deathwatch and genestealer cult...once they get all those "most wanted" factions out of the way maybe they can finally introduce some proper aliens into the game, allthough I suppose they may need to hire someone that is qualified with that...hmmm :D

[Mr Mystery]

Sisters of Battle just patiently tutted in your general direction :p

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Sisters of Battle just patiently tutted in your general direction :p

Tsundere sisters? yes please!

[zanth]

Tsundere sisters? yes please!

It's not like we want new models or anything. We're not lonely. What are you looking at?!

[Path Walker]

The part that most interests me is one of the Deathwatch members is supposedly a Blood Raven. Yay for an official model, if it comes true. Can't wait for the picture leaks next week, hope they didn't confuse him with a Blood Angel...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/678885.page#8431347

Christ, dakkadakka is ****ing terrible.

[jonsgot]

Sisters of Battle just patiently tutted in your general direction :p

GW how dare you release something other than Sisters of Battle in your next Space Marine box set :)

And your Mother Superior...

[This Dave]

I'm really hoping some official rules for using Deathwatch in 40K come out along with this game. I have a 48 model strong Deathwatch army (48 different Chapter shoulder pads too) that I would really like to play as something other than just black and silver Ultramarines.

If nothing else I guess my army will get some reinforcements that I don't have to convert.

[energongoodie]

Models!

Their is an actual Iron Hands model!!!! A real model!!!! :D They look great!
I can not wait for this one!

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12717828_10153203620341106_8345938004769051840_n.j pg?oh=761bc3028bcb70a6460184b4a55cba43&oe=572E76E3

[Patrick Boyle]

Only 6? Wonder if this isn't all of them. Ravenguard, Ultras, Dark Angel, Blood Angel(judging by the hair), Imperial Fists, Iron Hands...

But not the rumored Blood Raven yet :( The names so far do match up with the Marines in the Deathwatch quick reads series though, so fingers still crossed http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/40k-qu-re/city-of-ruin-ebook.html

I also like that, much nicer shoulder pads and the extra gribbly on the elbow aside, they match up pretty well with the Deathwatch I've been working on. Finally got off my rear on the upgrade kit I bought 2 years ago, only using the shoulders though, the bolters are all warped and bleh. But otherwise decked out in Chapter specific bits aspect is cool since it matches how I put mine together.

[Mr Mystery]

What's the Devastator armed with? I don't recognise it at all.

[energongoodie]

What's the Devastator armed with? I don't recognise it at all.

Traditionally, Deathwatch came with a heavy bolter with suspensors making it a 18" assault weapon, with hellfire rounds for those pesky xenos.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100604072523/warhammer40k/images/c/c7/Deathwatch01.jpg

[Patrick Boyle]

What's the Devastator armed with? I don't recognise it at all.

My guess is some sort of heavy bolter variant, it looks vaguely similar to these from Forgeworld (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legion-Heavy-Bolter-Set-2015). Which is a touch annoying; the Imperial Fist in my Deathwatch squad is already going to be carrying a heavy bolter... maybe I ought to make him a Crimson Fist now instead.

[Erik Setzer]

They look really nice from what you can make out in the images, but I'm a little concerned they'll only be assembled one way. Might make for one (or two?) nice units of Deathwatch, but a kit with options would be better. Guess we'll see when it hits shelves!

[Mr Mystery]

Could be Heavy Bolter with Suspensors and Hellfire Shells I suppose.

But hey, let's stop pretending. We all really want to see the Genestealer side of things.

[Patrick Boyle]

I couldn't care less about grubby cultists myself, I just want the Blood Ravens model :p

[Haighus]

The way the models are following the Deathwatch series characters looks promising for a Blood Raven model. On another note, the book covers for the Deathwatch series are actually atrocious. I don't know how they were ok'd...

[Mr Mystery]

Should mean there's four other Deathwatch we've not spied yet.

And yeah, those covers. Yikes!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

On the Deathwatch, they look good. I like how close they are to the artwork. It's the Genestealer cult I really want to see though, that's been on so many peoples wishlist for years now. I am excited to see how they will of upgraded the visual design of the hybrids, magus and patriarch ect
- and looking ahead if both get codex books later with more stuff that will be great too. New armies are always the most exciting part of GW's model releases for me.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't give two balls about Tyranids. Someone can buy them off of me when I get this.

As an addendum, Deathwatch: Tyranid Invasion is free on the iOS App Store. It is so fuuuun!

[sebi81]

I hope the genecult members don't happen to be just a bunch of chaos cultists, some standard genestealers and the once limited broodlord model

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/484

The Dark Angel one sounds cool, up against Sslyth!! May get it to read more about them. Would be awesome if they gave them a mini-dex at some point.

[Charon]

Would be awesome if they gave them a mini-dex at some point.

They are basically extinct. The survivors live in Sec Maegra in Commorragh and act as Mercenaries in exchange for drugs.
The Dark Eldar do "trust" them because they are to stupid to betray anyone.
So I do not think they are doing well in an mini dex... unlike Hrud, Demiurg, or other aliens who are actually more widespread.

[Bigred]

via Games Workshop 2-19-2016


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWlZUaxNPW8
1745917460

[energongoodie]

I'm in so hard for these! They look ACE!
Come on codex!

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12743912_10153206615166106_8179184814293444563_n.j pg?oh=86e42bcb4207a55558806ab9fc9436ab&oe=575D474A
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/10273658_10153206615191106_5099766742616261944_n.j pg?oh=6b2ebca5c458a18d77dd774ddda8ddfb&oe=5758B026
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/12743966_10153206615236106_7355162597610810891_n.j pg?oh=8a59633117fe9d3df526ec12228aebad&oe=575E19D1
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/10295751_1259467680736057_5141461709424701051_n.jp g?oh=2066f835a439a4dc11569903bcb682b3&oe=575F4246

[grimmas]

Excellent stuff. They've got a really old school vibe with new school finish and quality. Loving the weapons especially what looks like a needle pistol in the hands of the Primus.

I like how you've posted the photos they are nice and easy to view.

- - - Updated - - -


https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/484

The Dark Angel one sounds cool, up against Sslyth!! May get it to read more about them. Would be awesome if they gave them a mini-dex at some point.

It would be nice if they could do a sort of Aliens compendium with a couple of entries for each of the many different Alien races that have been mentioned over the years. There's things like Enslavers that are really quite important background wise that barely get a mention these days. It'd be help for narative games as well and apparently this is what GW is about these days.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I keep seeing Chaplain Cassius mentioned and he's on the cover. New model like Ulrik perhaps?

[energongoodie]

Here's Cassius

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[Brakkart]

Purestrain Genestealers and Hybrid with Mining Laser

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1st & 2nd Generation Hybrids

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Thus far the box contents are:

Chaplain Ortan Cassius
10 Deathwatch marines (including 1 Termy, 2 with jump packs and 1 on bike)

versus

1 Patriarch (mentioned but no pic seen yet)
1 Magus (armed with staff, hooked swords and an autopistol)
1 Primus (armed with rending claws, bone sword and a needle pistol)
2 Genestealer Familiars
2 Purestrain Genestealers
2 Genestealer Aberrants with Power Hammer
2 Genestealer Aberrants with Power Pick
2 Hybrids with Mining Laser
8 4th Generation Hybrids (all armed with autoguns)
4 3rd Generation Hybrids (2 with autoguns, 2 with grenade launchers)
12 1st/2nd Generation Hybrids (all armed with autopistols and combat knife)

48 figures in all and with a price tag of apparently about £100. I am so getting this!

[Arkhan Land]

this rules

[Mr Mystery]

Yes please, Santa!

These are really, really nice models. As someone who played lots of Space Hulk as a nipper, I'm totally stoked to see Hybrids return!

[energongoodie]

Time to start rubbing those magic lamps... CODEX CODEX CODEX!

[Mr Mystery]

I'd be surprised if there isn't. Maybe not straight away, but I reckon we'll get it.

Now....time to plan my spending...

I want this, but I also want HH Vol VI...and eating at some point would also be pleasing.

[Kirsten]

oooh, those are lovely, and that white scar, I need it.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Lvoe the genestealer cult stuff! All looks really good to me. Looks like they have a good variety of units as well, easily enough for a harlequin/skitarii sized codex. The familiars are kinda cute, anyone else find them cute or is it just me being weird?

But everyones forgotten to ask the most important question, wheres the limo? :p

---

oh and if the sslyth have breeding grounds then surely they can't be that extinct.


---


Thanks to Lady Atia : ( https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/492 )
https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture2/492/Screenshot_2016-02-20_12.18.50.png

[Mr Mystery]

That's really nice!

[grimmas]

You've got to make your own Limos it's the law. They also shouldn't cost any points 😊

[Mr Mystery]

And have AV5 all round :p

[Haighus]

This is soooo many levels of awesome. Would combo really well with my 'Nid army too, which mainly consists of about 40 genestealers and a pair of broodlords...

What is the difference between a broodlord and a patriarch?

[eldargal]

No cult limousine, what a wasted opportunity.


(I am joking, everything looks great)

[YorkNecromancer]

Oh my goodness how I want the Genestealer Hybrids.

And I love the fact they've justified the weird clothes they're wearing as mining gear. Gives them a distinct look from the Chaos Cultists, but without some nonsense about how it's 'Tyranid Clothes' or something.

Frankly, I want more 40K-era human civilian models; workers, clerks, cars, all of it. *fingers crossed for Necromunda's re-release*

[Kirsten]

yeah I've wanted some civilian models for decades

[eldargal]

My one actual criticism is that I think the Genestealer Patriarch should be bigger and fatter, but its still really nice.

[William Lang]

Here's Cassius

17462I love the Blood Raven librarian. :D

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture3/492/Screenshot_2016-02-20_12.30.40.png
VIA the ever awesome Lady Atia https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/492

[Gotthammer]

My one actual criticism is that I think the Genestealer Patriarch should be bigger and fatter, but its still really nice.

Yeah, old fat dude on a throne 4 lyfe.

Although if everyone on this planet is male - a safe assumption given GW will probably neither mention nor show women at all - how do the stealers reproduce?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yeah, old fat dude on a throne 4 lyfe.

this isn't meant to be real life!


Although if everyone on this planet is male - a safe assumption given GW will probably neither mention nor show women at all - how do the stealers reproduce?


Was wondering that too. Perhaps they'll explain it all in a codex at some point. I was wondering why none of the hybrids are female, or maybe they are (?)

[AdamHarry]

via Warhammer 40 Campaigns (https://www.facebook.com/Warhammer-40k-Campaigns-518558484848481/)(and various others on Facebook) 2-20-2016


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[Al Shut]

What is the difference between a broodlord and a patriarch?

The tail? I remember for sure broodlords have a stumpy tail because it was quite a bit of work to equip mine with something that looks similar to what the patriarch got.

[Erik Setzer]

Models look aces, but so far have limited use beyond the board game, which means its price can't be dictated by how much X unit would cost in 40K but rather how much would a similar board game cost. If it's reasonable, I'll snag it.

The Hybrids might end up making the leap to 40K and I really hope so. Dual use for these models (which would help move copies of the game), and more variety of models. The Hybrids actually look like they should (except the Patriarch, who looks like a slightly different Broodlord... oh well, guess that one was too much to hope for).

If they do make Deathwatch rules, I'm not sure if these guys will be useful, because they're too varied to have a unit that makes sense as a standard unit with that many options (it'd be like 2nd edition Death Company, and, well, some of us remember what that was like). HOWEVER! A cool gesture (that'd also help move copies of the game) would be putting rules in White Dwarf for these guys as a unit in 40K that acts like the Last Chancers (who were pretty much all equipped differently). It'd be pretty interesting to see. Also, putting the rules as a PDF download on the store page, too.

Okay, sorry, part of my brain's in fan mode and part is still running through concepts of how to inexpensively add value for a customer in order to promote them using your service and buying your goods. Can't help it.

[Al Shut]

I noticed the Broodlord is on last chance to buy. The Patriarch could easily replace him for normal 40k games.

[Mud Duck]

Yeah, old fat dude on a throne 4 lyfe.

Although if everyone on this planet is male - a safe assumption given GW will probably neither mention nor show women at all - how do the stealers reproduce?

That's easy Gott, they're all in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Got to keep those numbers up.:p
Yes, that is/sounds sexist, it is, but in the terms of the fluff it kinda makes cents. They are trying to take the planet over, and attract the hive mind, so numbers count.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh my goodness how I want the Genestealer Hybrids.

And I love the fact they've justified the weird clothes they're wearing as mining gear. Gives them a distinct look from the Chaos Cultists, but without some nonsense about how it's 'Tyranid Clothes' or something.

Frankly, I want more 40K-era human civilian models; workers, clerks, cars, all of it. *fingers crossed for Necromunda's re-release*

Yup.

The Inquistor scale Stevedore and chums came and went all too fast for me to grab a set.

[Erik Setzer]

I noticed the Broodlord is on last chance to buy. The Patriarch could easily replace him for normal 40k games.

Or they could release the one from Bloodstorm. They've already released the Blood Angels captain separate, Krom, Grukk... Broodlord's the only one left. It's a plastic kit, so that'd be one more resin kit gone and plastic kit in its place.

[Mr Mystery]

That's what I'm thinking too. And it's a much nicer model!

Now, anyone working on rules for the Hybrids and that in Space Hulk?

[Patrick Boyle]

I love the Blood Raven librarian. :D

I'm actually a little disappointed. His chapter badge appears to be a decal(though it's in the fancy style of the ones from Space Marine so that's cool) but the actual sculpted detail, like on his leg, looks more Blood Angels than Ravens. Maybe need better pictures, the reverse angle from behind it looks like the detail may be raised.

Overall looks like an awesome box. Here's the whole spread, found on Dakka, from twitter somewhere. Full contents is 50 total minis, plus all the game stuff.

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[eLCee]

I'm actually a little disappointed. His chapter badge appears to be a decal(though it's in the fancy style of the ones from Space Marine so that's cool) but the actual sculpted detail, like on his leg, looks more Blood Angels than Ravens. Maybe need better pictures, the reverse angle from behind it looks like the detail may be raised.

Overall looks like an awesome box. Here's the whole spread, found on Dakka, from twitter somewhere. Full contents is 50 total minis, plus all the game stuff.



Looking at the picture that smaller shot of him on the bottom right it seems its sculped and not a decal.

[Alex Knight]

Price is a bit hefty, at $165 USD. I am a little disappointed they didn't go the direction of making it a full stand-alone expansion for Space Hulk though. After all, they could have made the corridors tiles resemble mine tunnels... That would have been perfect. Oh well.

[Mr Mystery]

There is that, but the counterpoint would be potential confusion as to whether or not you need Space Hulk to play this.

[Patrick Boyle]

Higher quality images here (http://imgur.com/a/F4g8P), shoulder badge for the Blood Raven is indeed sculpted, woo!

[Hybrid3rdGen]

I couldn't care less about grubby cultists myself, I just want the Blood Ravens model :p

I will take them... no questions asked. :P

[Gotthammer]

That's easy Gott, they're all in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Got to keep those numbers up.:p
Yes, that is/sounds sexist, it is, but in the terms of the fluff it kinda makes cents. They are trying to take the planet over, and attract the hive mind, so numbers count.

So I've been pondering this for a bit...

So the stealer life-cycle is that a purestrain infects a human, that human reproduces and the first born is a 1st gen hybrid. Any children after that are brood brothers - normal humans but with an inbuilt dedication to their pure/hybrid kin.

1st gen infects second human, who produces one 2nd gen & more brood brothers etc.

However 'stealer cults need to avoid suspicion, so at least in the early stages they wouldn't be expanding massively. I mean there are groups that preach doctrines of maximum childbirth but they are quite notable as such (I'm not saying quiverful families are really stealer cults but i'm also not saying it ya feel me), so where that is a red flag for stealer cults seems unlikely to me.

But regardless, even with each family producing say 4 offspring (1 hybrid, three brood brothers), by the fourth generation that would be 16 broodbrethren per line of infection. This of course discounts a purestrain infecting multiple people also.
So after six or seven generations there would be a lot of a broodbrethren running around, potentially intermarrying (or bringing partners into the clan) and having more broodkin so to speak.

Going on from that I don't think the cult would go for overpopulation, after all biomass is biomass, more a consistent takeover of society (ymmv). And when the sh!t hits the fan and the time to rise up, either by the nids or Deathwatch or =I= showing up means that anyone who can fight will be fighting.

Not to mention no female hybrids exist?

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Gw, mixed gender unit in fluff, all male models, not shocked.
It's pretty much par for the course for 'humans', elves, tau, etc are fine.
I suppose I'm just going to have to decide that all the big mutated ones are ladies.
Just never humans.
Still, 39 cult members + 10 astartes, not bad at all!

[Mr Mystery]

I don't recall there being any mention about whether Hybrids are only male, or whether Purestrains even have genders.

But one thing that's always stuck in my mind - sure there must be a high mortality rate amongst mothers of the Cult? As a species we still have issues with childbirth where there's limited access to modern medicine. Add a third or fourth arm on the sprog, and I'd imagine that would only make matters worse?

[grimmas]

For everything up to 3rd generation hybrids genestealers are neither male or female that's not how they reproduce. That's what it says in the background anyhow (WDs 114-116). 4th generation do mate as humans though (the first time they produce a purestrain though). So a female 4th generation is possible within the fluff though given how the exchange of DNA would go I'm not sure it'd be entirely as effective for the Cult (they want both parties to be infected with Stealer DNA) Edit: on reflection it's not appropriate to think of 4th generation as male or female either that's not how it works. They're aliens and as such don't follow our concepts of gender. They use another spieces to breed.

Female Brood Brethren would be a thing though. However given how Genestealers operate its highly likely an female one will be spending most of their time pregnant or nursing. I think we are looking at bigger numbers than having 3-4 offspring. It is noted they humans that are impregnanted by Gnestealers have an unstoppable desire to mate. Unsurprisingly it's all very Grimdark.

This of course doesn't preclude all female Brood Brethren from the Battlefield however, especially if they were under attack from the Deathwatch and were fighting to survive. Yep if the Cult was on the offensive it might be prudent to keep the females back but not if they were fighting for their survival. Also what about the female Brethen who can't breed surely hey would be fighting? It's all getting a bit Imperial Guard there should be some but there isn't. I can't remember have we seen any Brood Brother models yet?

[Defenestratus]

For everything up to 3rd generation hybrids genestealers are neither male or female that's not how they reproduce. That's what it says in the background anyhow (WDs 114-116). 4th generation do mate as humans though (the first time they produce a purestrain though). So a female 4th generation is possible within the fluff though given how the exchange of DNA would go I'm not sure it'd be entirely as effective for the Cult (they want both parties to be infected with Stealer DNA) Edit: on reflection it's not appropriate to think of 4th generation as male or female either that's not how it works. They're aliens and as such don't follow our concepts of gender. They use another spieces to breed.

Female Brood Brethren would be a thing though. However given how Genestealers operate its highly likely an female one will be spending most of their time pregnant or nursing. I think we are looking at bigger numbers than having 3-4 offspring. It is noted they humans that are impregnanted by Gnestealers have an unstoppable desire to mate. Unsurprisingly it's all very Grimdark.

This of course doesn't preclude all female Brood Brethren from the Battlefield however, especially if they were under attack from the Deathwatch and were fighting to survive. Yep if the Cult was on the offensive it might be prudent to keep the females back but not if they were fighting for their survival. Also what about the female Brethen who can't breed surely hey would be fighting? It's all getting a bit Imperial Guard there should be some but there isn't. I can't remember have we seen any Brood Brother models yet?

I can't believe there's a serious conversion about this crap.

[grimmas]

I can't believe there's a serious conversion about this crap.

How dare you sir there's nothing more serious than 40K fluff. It makes more sense (marginally ) than the rules anyhow 😝

[Gotthammer]

I can't believe there's a serious conversion about this crap.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/06163571b402a28a1cf14dcb74184191/tumblr_nrlrdtoaMB1uazrc4o1_500.jpg


Edit: This one also works:

http://i.imgur.com/r8q1X.png

[Haighus]

I can't believe there's a serious conversion about this crap.

I see no reason why there shouldn't be? Discussion of 40k fluff is something I enjoy, and discussing the social and biological aspects of a fictional parasitic predator race's reproduction cycle seems like a great use of my time as a thought game. :D

As it turns out, I don't know much about genestealer cults, so I'm mainly just reading other's comments. From what Grimmas said though, there should be female 4th gen hybrids. Especially as a Deathwatch killteam is the sort of threat to cause the entire cult to be attempting to defend the Patriarch. Would be interesting to see non-combat hybrids forced into defense as a sort of conscripts, with really basic weaponry. With GW's reluctance to make any 'civilian' models though, I feel this is unlikely unfortunately.

[Gotthammer]

So a female 4th generation is possible within the fluff though given how the exchange of DNA would go I'm not sure it'd be entirely as effective for the Cult (they want both parties to be infected with Stealer DNA) Edit: on reflection it's not appropriate to think of 4th generation as male or female either that's not how it works. They're aliens and as such don't follow our concepts of gender. They use another spieces to breed.

Given 4th gens are near indistinguishable from humans & can breed with them I don't think relating to them in terms of humanity is totally off limits. And even if it is, I'm calling shenanigans on the fact that they just happen to look like dudes.


Female Brood Brethren would be a thing though. However given how Genestealers operate its highly likely an female one will be spending most of their time pregnant or nursing. I think we are looking at bigger numbers than having 3-4 offspring. It is noted they humans that are impregnanted by Gnestealers have an unstoppable desire to mate. Unsurprisingly it's all very Grimdark.

I'm still standing by the fact they need to blend in for an extended period of time, and disabling half of one's populace in eternal child-rearing would play all sorts of havoc on any post-agrarian society, not to mention issues of overpopulation (which even on a local scale, would draw unwanted attention to the coven).

Not ruling it out completely of course, just thinking if you're wanting to take over a planet suddenly causing every woman who signs up for your Totally Legitimate Church of the Many-Limbed Emperor to drop her job/family/friends will raise a lot of eyebrows. Plus she's probably not going to be around as much to get others to come to praise her Thoughful, Youthful, Resplendently Armed, Not-Insidious Deity.



I can't remember have we seen any Brood Brother models yet?

Back in yon days of yore they used the original plastic guardsmen kits to represent them - so no specific ones. I've seen Necromunda gangers used too.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Really curious to see the sprues for this now. I wonder if the Deathwatch will be all seperate clampacks or just one big sprue.

Same for the Genecult, wonder if the patriarch, magus ect will be released seperately later on. Could see the hybrids and aberrants getting their own multipart kits later on though (1st/2nd, 3rd/4th and Abberants?)

Also, If you replaced the hybrid heads of the 3rd and 4th gens with normal human ones you could do a rebelling miners army! (perhaps have them go up against ghazghkull thraka)

[YorkNecromancer]

Statuesque do these (http://statuesqueminiatures.shop033.com/p/9064684/sma015-heroic-scale-female-heads---bald.html), which would work nicely for conversion bits for female Hybrids.

https://thedicebaglady.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/statue-heroic-bald.jpg


If you replaced the hybrid heads of the 3rd and 4th gens with normal human ones you could do a rebelling miners army! (perhaps have them go up against ghazghkull thraka)

I was thinking of doing that for a HH-era Militia army.

[grimmas]

Given 4th gens are near indistinguishable from humans & can breed with them I don't think relating to them in terms of humanity is totally off limits. And even if it is, I'm calling shenanigans on the fact that they just happen to look like dudes.



I'm still standing by the fact they need to blend in for an extended period of time, and disabling half of one's populace in eternal child-rearing would play all sorts of havoc on any post-agrarian society, not to mention issues of overpopulation (which even on a local scale, would draw unwanted attention to the coven).

Not ruling it out completely of course, just thinking if you're wanting to take over a planet suddenly causing every woman who signs up for your Totally Legitimate Church of the Many-Limbed Emperor to drop her job/family/friends will raise a lot of eyebrows. Plus she's probably not going to be around as much to get others to come to praise her Thoughful, Youthful, Resplendently Armed, Not-Insidious Deity.




Back in yon days of yore they used the original plastic guardsmen kits to represent them - so no specific ones. I've seen Necromunda gangers used too.


Well it definitely mentions Priestesses in the background it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for them to be 4th Gens. Though it's not really "come join our cult for your enternal salvation" its more that you've been infected by alien DNA and you're one of us, a physical and psychological change does occur after implantation (either by a stealer or infected human) The only thing that sits a little uneasy is that a species that survives by implanting it's DNA in other spieces need to be impregnanted at the 4th generation, but them stealers do have hypnotic gazes so I'm sure they could get it done 😳.

It also probably pertinent to the argument that in the case of 4th gens it's only their first offspring that is a Purestrain any others will be human (well Brood Brethren Human which isn't entirely the same thing). So it probable that their usefulness as breeders ends pretty quickly.

of course this is reading quite a lot into 27yr old fluff.

[DGH875]

This release may get me back into the hobby after 17 years. I've been toying with the idea for a year now, ever since I came across The Cult rumours. I'm glad GW has revived them and the miniatures are stunning (as are the Deathwach ones). I think I'm going to pick up WD for the first time this weekend and may even pre-order the game Saturday. I just need to convince my wife that I need a another hobby...

[Kirsten]

join uuuuuuusssssss

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

yesss joinnnnn usssss, spennnnnnd the moneyyyy (but do get it on discount like Dark sphere, probably saving you about £20)

[Mr Mystery]

One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us!

[grimmas]

Genestealer cults, working as intended

[DGH875]

Haha, I'm still staying strong, but the more I think about it, the more I want it to happen.

[Mr Mystery]

Genestealer cults, working as intended

Put all four arms in the air, like you just don't care!

[DGH875]

yesss joinnnnn usssss, spennnnnnd the moneyyyy (but do get it on discount like Dark sphere, probably saving you about £20)Is that the site to get discount on? I'm going to need all I can get as I'm literally starting from nothing, so would need to get modelling supplies etc...

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

It is the site to go to if you are in the UK, yes. https://www.darksphere.co.uk/

[Mr Mystery]

I should be shopping with Darksphere soon, as my customer loyalty to local store may soon be discharged :)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I should be shopping with Darksphere soon, as my customer loyalty to local store may soon be discharged :)

Then you can use the savings to buy more /GWmindcontrol

[Mr Mystery]

Pretty much!

£37.50 for a Getting Started set is pretty ace.

[AdamHarry]

via Bonespace, dakkadakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1140/671862.page;jsessionid=4CBF1E7C447656894D9F57300A6 EFB3C#top) 2-22-2016



Games Workshop wrote:
Games Workshop is proud to introduce you to Deathwatch: Overkill – Suffer not the alien to live! A brand new game in a box. Deathwatch: Overkill tells the story of the discovery of the Warhammer 40.000 Genestealer Cult (Tyranids) by the elite Deathwatch Space Marine kill squad on the mining world of Ghosar Quintus.
Deathwatch: Overkill is a standalone game with lots of new Space Marine and Genestealers Cult (Tyranid) miniatures that can also be used in a regular Warhammer 40.000 game. The miniatures can be used for this game, or they can be used straight in a regular Tyranids army or one of the many Space Marine chapters (without having to convert them). The rules for the Space Marines will be in White Dwarf 109 and for the Tyranids in White Dwarf 110. In addition the datasheets will be available from our website.
DEATHWATCH: OVERKILL – WHAT’S IN THE BOX?
A brand new game in a box, telling the story of the discovery of the Warhammer 40.000 Genestealers Cult (Tyranids). The box contains:
50x brand new highly detailed plastic miniatures, with lots of little details depicting character background information.
The miniatures have a dynamic single pose and will require glue and assembly (they are not push fit). The miniatures can be divided into two camps:
The Genestealer Cult
These veteran Space Marines will make great champions for any Space Marine army!
11x individual Space Marine Veteran Champions (equivalent to approximately £ 215 / € 275 retail normally)

The Deathwatch Kill team
A brand new Warhammer 40.000 fraction! The below list of miniatures make for addition to an original Tyranid army, an allied detachment to another army, or a great start for a brand new Tyranids army! This box contains the following Genestealers Cult miniatures
· 12 Acolyte Hybrids (1st and 2nd generation Tyranids)
· 16 Neophyte Cultists (3rd generation Tyranids)
· 2x Purestrain Genestealers
· 2x Familiars
· 4x Aberrants
· 1x Patriarch
· 1x Magus
· 1x Primus
· A 48-page rulebook with all the rules (just 3 pages, so it will be easy and quick game), character explanation, the background story, and 9x different missions. (Each scenario acts out one of the stages of the storyline. Each scenario will last between 30mins to 2 hours and will give a lot of playability)
· 8x double sided board tiles with different landscapes.
· A deck of 12x reference character cards and 30x Broodmind ambush and mission cards, to offer even more variation to the game so that each game will be different.
· A booklet with assembly instructions
· Gaming accessories such as markers, templates and 6 dice.

[DGH875]

Thanks for the heads up, i can't believe the price difference. I'll probably put the savings towards some variety of painting/modelling materials.

[Al Shut]

I'm sure some people will lament the lack of a mini codex/codex supplement. I for one am tempted to buy a White Dwarf for a change.

[Bigred]

mages via Ucheny (https://disqus.com/by/ucheny/) (DISQUS) 2-22-2016


German Deathwatch 40K Rules:

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[Skoolstah]

My third-party retailer spoiled the price for the boxset. It'll cost £100.

[Path Walker]

I'm sure some people will lament the lack of a mini codex/codex supplement. I for one am tempted to buy a White Dwarf for a change.

They won't be lamenting for long though.

[This Dave]

Hope the WD with the 40K rules comes out the same day as the boxed game. Going to make the hour drive to the nearest GW store and would be nice to not have to wind up ordering the magazine later.

[Bigred]

via scanner (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup) 2-22-2016
New releases for Deathwatch, and learn to play.

Deathwatch Overkill: $165 ?100 €140 AU$280 NZ$330
Deathwatch Ignition Novel: $27
Deathwatch Graphic Novel: $24


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[grimmas]

Hang on that White Scar is riding his bike inside, the filthy barbarian.

[Mr Mystery]

Graphic novel, eh?

Wonder if that's a new publication, or an old one from the days of Inferno and Warhammer Monthly? I'm 90% sure there was a Deathwatch serial in those, though I may be confusing it with Obvious Tactics?

[Path Walker]

Graphic novel, eh?

Wonder if that's a new publication, or an old one from the days of Inferno and Warhammer Monthly? I'm 90% sure there was a Deathwatch serial in those, though I may be confusing it with Obvious Tactics?

There was one, aye, it was quite good. I like that they're reprinting the old comics, got Inquistor Ascendant the other day, loved that. I hope they do a proper print of Deff Skwadron, the current one isn't very good quality, the paper is rubbish.

- - - Updated - - -


Hope the WD with the 40K rules comes out the same day as the boxed game. Going to make the hour drive to the nearest GW store and would be nice to not have to wind up ordering the magazine later.

The 40k rules for the Deathwatch Killteam are in next Saturdays WD by the looks of it, the Genestealer Cult ones in the week after.

[Mr Mystery]

Aye, and they'll be available online (I'm presuming free, but don't quote me on that)

[Erik Setzer]

"These veteran Space Marines will make great champions for any Space Marine army!
11x individual Space Marine Veteran Champions (equivalent to approximately £ 215 / € 275 retail normally) "

That right there? Bollocks.

First of all, it's stupid that independent characters cost $30 these days, especially for mono-pose models that have no options.

But then they double down on the stupid by saying that since you can use this SQUAD as character models, somehow their value is now equivalent to $330?

No. No, no, no.

First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.

People defend that awful price for a board game by talking about how much the board game pieces would cost under a really stupid pricing scheme.

And just claiming "These squad members would make nice independent characters, therefore their value is the same as overpriced independent characters" would be ridiculous even if they weren't board game pieces. I've converted a bunch of nice looking character models from squad boxes (Space Wolves, Orks, every character in my Ogre Kingdoms army, etc.), that doesn't suddenly make a Grey Hunter worth $30 or an individual Ogre worth $50.

If people want to buy the box, that's their call. But going along with this farce of claiming there's "great value" is ridiculous, and just helps push the hobby further and further into the range of being unaffordable for newer entrants. The few items designed to get people in for a reasonable cost are almost immediately counteracted the moment people see the basic price for stuff, and how much they'd need to play. And seeing a board game - a board game, of all things! - retailing for $165 is enough to give any sensible person sticker shock and send them looking to someone else's products (where they could get multiple board games, even including a larger game like Imperial Assault, Twilight Imperium, or even Forbidden Stars).

But yeah, they are great looking board game pieces, though.

It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).

Rules for using board game pieces in a miniatures game don't count (and certainly don't magically increase the value of the board game pieces).

[Mr Mystery]

Oh give it a rest Erik.

Don't wanna buy it? No problem.

But this endless 'yeah....but' is getting increasingly tiresome.

It's £100.00. Take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to anyone else which. The models are the same GW quality, and we'd expect to pay £15-£18 for character sculpts alone. Let's take the lowest of those, yeah? £165 just in Marines, then you've got the Squealers, and the game itself.

So for avoidance of doubt - don't wanna buy it, no problem. Don't buy it. But please don't tell people it's objectively poor value when it's clearly not.

[eldargal]

It's £2 per model, plus board and bits, that's reasonable by GW standards.

[Erik Setzer]

It's £100.00. Take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to anyone else which. The models are the same GW quality, and we'd expect to pay £15-£18 for character sculpts alone. Let's take the lowest of those, yeah? £165 just in Marines, then you've got the Squealers, and the game itself.

BOLLOCKS.

This kind of dishonesty is what's ruining the Games Workshop portion of the hobby. You might expect to pay silly amounts for character models (though it shouldn't be acceptable), but these guys are a SQUAD. Just because the SQUAD is made of named characters doesn't make them suddenly "worth" more. The Last Chancers are a SQUAD of twelve named characters, and they cost $35, despite being produced in lower production runs with more expensive materials, proving that a SQUAD of named characters created by GW shouldn't be considered as something that is "worth" $330.

Try packaging that squad for $330. YOU might buy it, because you think anyone who speaks out against this madness is somehow vehemently anti-GW. Sensible people would laugh at how stupid that is. Yet here you are claiming that's a reasonable price to charge for a squad. Seriously?

If you like the game, fine. Cool! The game pieces look awesome, the game might be fun.

But the moment you claim that the game pieces are magically worth more through some arbitrary reasoning that ignores all sense and logic, you are being intellectually dishonest, and helping to further damage the hobby by promoting the sense that things should be priced so high that most people scoff at it.

And, again, anyone with a reasonable mind would scoff at a $330 squad. Only people with a bunch of money and an unquestioning love for GW, or people lacking in cognitive function, would actually accept the idea of a $330 squad. Nothing you say will change the reality that it's a bollocks argument designed to tell you that these board game pieces are somehow worth more than their weight in gold, and defending that argument just makes you silly (and makes you more harmful to GW than those of us pointing out how ridiculous it is ever could be).

[Mr Mystery]

Once did an all metal Savage Orc army.

And I see you've switch from saying the game is poor value for money, changing up your complaint point. Something you managed to do in your previous post without any input.

Tell me. Which is it?

Option one?


First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.

Or option two?


It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).

Option One


First of all, it's a board game, and they call it such. Sure, you can use the board game pieces in 40K, once they print rules, with limited range of use for the board game pieces. But at the end of the day, this isn't being billed as a 40K expansion box like Bloodstorm or Stormclaw, it's being marketed as a board game, which means it should be priced as a board game, and $165 is laughably stupid.

Or option two?


It'll be nice if - *if*, because there's no hard info yet - they make actual stand-alone Genestealer Cult releases and a supplement for them (preferably print, at least as an option).

Do we consider the game just on it's own cost and merits, or do we consider the game on it's cost and the flexibility of it's components to be fielded in a different game?

Option One, or Option Two.

And again for avoidance of doubt....if you don' think it offers sufficient value for money - that's cool. Your call. But value is an entirely subjective thing.

[Erik Setzer]

It's £2 per model, plus board and bits, that's reasonable by GW standards.

Perhaps, though that still feels a bit off after Betrayal at Calth, and especially after Bloodstorm (though that one was perhaps a bit much in terms of value).

If you put the argument *that* way, though, it's very acceptable. That's a good argument, and quite valid.

The "a squad of Space Marines is worth $330 USD because they're named models" is a false argument, though, and people going along with that should feel bad.

Yours? Totally valid. I'm cool with that way of looking at things.

Still... as a board game, it's too much. Mainly because board games should be done like they used to make them, as a means of drawing new players to the games. Space Hulk (original), Space Crusade, Tyranid Attack, HeroQuest, those were solid games with nice pieces, sold at a very reasonable price in hobby and toy stores. People saw them, got them, found out there's more to get into, and it brought in a new customer. That's what they should be producing board games as. Right now, it feels more like they're being designed to push bundles of figures to existing customers, who will then reason the price in their minds as being a "bargain" compared to the prices they're used to paying. That *might* do some good for customer retention, but trying to push these games in other stores isn't likely to work so well, so the likelihood of new customers is kind of minor.

Heck, I like Stealer Cults, I like the concept of Space Hulk style games, I'll probably still get the game when I can. But it doesn't mean that I think the price as a board game is good (or even as much of a "bargain" after getting stuff like Stormclaw, Blood/Deathstorm/whatever the BA/Nids one was, etc.). Even if I get it, though, that doesn't mean in any way I have to endorse the jaw-dropping stupidity it takes to claim the squad of Marines is a $330 retail value.

Your argument, though? Totally valid and a good argument.

- - - Updated - - -


Do we consider the game just on it's own cost and merits, or do we consider the game on it's cost and the flexibility of it's components to be fielded in a different game?

It's marketed as a board game, so you consider it as a board game.

Change it to a 40K release marketed as such, and it's different.

I specifically noted stand-alone GC releases, as in "stuff released for 40K and not as part of a board game," would be nice. I'm not sure how you confused that to mean something in support of considering board game pieces to be anything but?

There's a huge difference between a board game or a 40K expansion. Board games should be more accessible to the general public, used as a way to draw in new players. 40K expansions are items you can charge more for because you're selling to an existing customer base who you've already (theoretically, though not really in practice, we're seeing) conditioned to accept certain price ranges. But that would also mean it'd have to come packaged with the 40K rules... which would then mean they couldn't stuff them in their sales flyers and convince people to drop $8 more on a pair of sales flyers. I'll give them credit if they put the rules up online for free, but doesn't change that the game is a separate board game, not a 40K expansion, so all discussion of prices should be considering the price for a board game and what the board game market would find palatable.

[eldargal]

Marketing BS is marketing BS. I'm not sure I'm going to get it myself, I like genestealer cults and all but its not a priority and I'm annoyed by the lack of female cultists. But its not bad value for money, when the average plastic troop model from GW range in price from 1.8-2.4 pounds apiece.

[Erik Setzer]

There's "marketing BS" and then there's just so much BS it makes you actually shout it out loud, which I did the first time I read that.

What offends me more is when people actually parrot the BS as if it's a valid point.

Again, *your* point is valid.

The claim about character models and stuff? Not even remotely valid.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Probaby won't get it myself, RL circumstances mean I have to be more choosier, but it's still good to see the two new forces in the game. Allthough I agree with Eldargal's criciticm, the models do look very good I think. Hopefully they will do multipart variants later this year. I wonder what new faction will be next? Exodites? Arbites? Demiurg? :D

[YorkNecromancer]

The standard GW price of £2 a model is excellent value IMO.

Especially seeing as most people will be getting it online for less.

Having seen the board up close on the pics above, I think I prefer Calth's hex board visually, but this still looks nice. I'll definitely be getting one. Quite aside from the fact the Deathwatch models will go nicely with some of my prexisting stuff... (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?49607-Deathwatch-Army) :)

[Mr Mystery]

Needs twelfty more Deathwatch.

I'll be getting it, but not this month. Bill Bomb dropped big time. Water, Sewerage, Gas, Lekky, Council Tax. All at once :(

[grimmas]

I rather like that yanks have started using the word bollocks. .

It still a good value set in terms of models for the money. I'm not sure I'm going to have a lot of use for servants of the false emperor or rapey aliens at the mo though.

[AdamHarry]

Deathwatch Data Sheets!
via Scanner, Spikeybits Forum (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup&p=237945&viewfull=1#post237945) 2-23-2016


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[Mr Mystery]

Frag Cannon is quite saucy, if somehow a wee bit Orky to my mind :)

[grimmas]

Doesn't the Furioso dread have a Frag Cannon option?

[AdamHarry]

Doesn't the Furioso dread have a Frag Cannon option?

Yes - but it doesn't have the same solid shot option last time I checked (which has been a while now that I think about it). Plus the fact that it's now a heavy weapon option for Deathwatch (aka sternguard on steroids) is what makes it cool. The Frag Cannon works WONDERS at killing mobs/squads of blob units. Combine that with all the special ammo options and other wargear and you've got the swiss army knife unit removal tool. Nothing is safe from these guys.

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Deathwatch Box Contents
via Scanner, Spikeybits Forum (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup&p=237934&viewfull=1#post237934) 2-23-2016


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[spagunk]

I can confirm with absolute certainty that BA can take a frag cannon but does NOT have an option to switch ammo: you only get the template assault 2 str 6 rending option.

Edit: to clarify, the frag cannon is furioso dread only. No man-portable option at this time.

[zanth]

Aye, and they'll be available online (I'm presuming free, but don't quote me on that)

Too late, quote'd! :D But they will be posted online for free, I am told.

[Erik Setzer]

Needs twelfty more Deathwatch.

Actually, it'd be nice to have a DW squad released on the side, something like a Tactical Squad with a DW-themed sprue with shoulderpads, heavy bolter, maybe some accessories, kick it up to $50. And/or a DW upgrade blister like some chapters got, so you can buy whatever Marine models you want (bikers, Captain, etc.) and make them Deathwatch.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I hope they would give Black shields some focus too, they could be turned into something more interesting imo.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't want the Cult models, anyone in the UK want to go halves?

[Haighus]

I don't want the Cult models, anyone in the UK want to go halves?

Tempting. Your Shrewsbury right? I'm not likely to be back in Shropshire for awhile though.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Bang on the money.
I can post them to you.

[Haighus]

Bang on the money.
I can post them to you.

PM'd :)

[Bigred]

via Captain Citadel (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21941-Genestealer-Cult-vs-Deathwatch-Roundup)2-24-2016

Genestealer Cult Sprues
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[AdamHarry]

Genestealer Cult Rules for two units:
via Omega-soul, B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303604-rumours-deathwatch-overkill-deathwatch-rules-pg-29/page-34#entry4316343) 2-23-2016


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[Path Walker]

Am I the only one assuming that Stage 1 Hybrid in the middle is wearing a dress?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

So it's all monpose then, interesting. Perhaps they will release multiparts for these two factions later on, if so that will be very interesting to see (especially if they add more units)

[Mr Mystery]

I reckon we'll Genestealer Cults get a Codex.

[Erik Setzer]

So it's all monpose then, interesting. Perhaps they will release multiparts for these two factions later on, if so that will be very interesting to see (especially if they add more units)

To make an actual faction (even just as allies) with either, they'd need multi-part kits with options. Otherwise, appeal is going to be pretty low.

DW are easy, just do a sprue and pack it with existing stuff. And a clampack sprue. Boom, done.

GC would be a little tougher. Characters are all monopose without any real options nowadays anyway, so they can make new sprues with those and package them in clampacks. It's the hybrids that'd be the bigger issue, but theoretically having the base design already in the computer would mean they'd just need to come up with more weapons and maybe alternate types of units, then design those, reposition some stuff, design sprues with the bits chopped up as needed. Certainly not impossible, but I imagine it'll take a bit of money to do all of that. (If they're trying to gauge interest for a 40K faction off of a board game, though, that'd be a bit... silly.)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I hope they'll give the Genestealer cult a vehicle of some kind, something more ramshackle and to the point (not a limo lol)
I also wonder i the monopose characters will be the same as the ones in this set or alternate poses. At the least id guess 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th gen hybrids would form two seperate kits, perhaps the abherants would be another kit - possibly the most likely to be a duel kit too id say.

[grimmas]

Characters are all monopose without any real options nowadays anyway

They've always been monopose generally, with a few exceptions which are still available I believe, they're just making new ones out of plastic rather than resin or metal.

[Erik Setzer]

They've always been monopose generally, with a few exceptions which are still available I believe, they're just making new ones out of plastic rather than resin or metal.

Well, there was a time when, say, Space Marine characters didn't have at least one arm attached, so you could glue on the arm and the weapon you want. (That's going back to 2nd edition days, but lasted a while.) But then you have kits like the Space Marine Commander and Chaos Lord, and things like the Empire and High Elf Wizards, or Orc Boss kit, where you could make two characters using a heck of an array of options. Funny thing is, those were all cheaper than the new clampacks without options.

The ability is there, they've shown it, but it's just cheaper to do monopose without options, so we get something cheaper for them to produce that somehow costs us more money... and there are people who are okay with that. Meh.

(Side note for the Ork Big Mek in Mega-Armour, which is a bit of an odd one, since he's an option in a unit kit. Similarly, there's the Imperial Guard leaders who come in Command Squads.)

But since monopose without options is generally "the" thing now (even when it doesn't make sense with all the options available to a character), it does mean it'd be easy for them to just take the GC characters from this box, make a new sprue with just one character, and slap that in a clampack. (Alternately, if it's cheaper and the characters have relatively equal demand, they could probably do a single mold with multiple sprues attached, kind of like how some Space Marine squad sprues can be separated and still work as independent sprues.)

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Characters are where I have to draw the limit for myself. Personally I can't justify a monopose character being worth any more than £8 pushing it myself. I generally like the ones they've made for the most part though I wish they were more affordable for me.

[grimmas]

Well, there was a time when, say, Space Marine characters didn't have at least one arm attached, so you could glue on the arm and the weapon you want. (That's going back to 2nd edition days, but lasted a while.) But then you have kits like the Space Marine Commander and Chaos Lord, and things like the Empire and High Elf Wizards, or Orc Boss kit, where you could make two characters using a heck of an array of options. Funny thing is, those were all cheaper than the new clampacks without options.

The ability is there, they've shown it, but it's just cheaper to do monopose without options, so we get something cheaper for them to produce that somehow costs us more money... and there are people who are okay with that. Meh.

(Side note for the Ork Big Mek in Mega-Armour, which is a bit of an odd one, since he's an option in a unit kit. Similarly, there's the Imperial Guard leaders who come in Command Squads.)

But since monopose without options is generally "the" thing now (even when it doesn't make sense with all the options available to a character), it does mean it'd be easy for them to just take the GC characters from this box, make a new sprue with just one character, and slap that in a clampack. (Alternately, if it's cheaper and the characters have relatively equal demand, they could probably do a single mold with multiple sprues attached, kind of like how some Space Marine squad sprues can be separated and still work as independent sprues.)


Ah it's a price issue carry on. I don't think a couple of Marines with a detachable arm trumps what is currently available for marines (and neither does the plastic arms on old imperial guard bodies). I don't think they've ever done a multiposed named character (unless you count Ghazghkull's arms moving a fraction)

[Al Shut]

Usually named characters don't have much options, do they?

[Erik Setzer]

Usually named characters don't have much options, do they?

I'm referring to general guys, like the Genestealer Cult guys should be.

For Deathwatch, I'd still prefer they just make a couple of upgrade sprues and sell one separate and package the other with basic Marines to make DW squads and characters.

[grimmas]

Got ya

It is as you mentioned a board game set usually we get monopose in them and most starters (BaC being a delicious exception). We did get multipose versions of the basic troops in the AoS starter so it might happen.

A Deathwatch Sprue to be used with other SM sets would be great.

[Erik Setzer]

Ah it's a price issue carry on. I don't think a couple of Marines with a detachable arm trumps what is currently available for marines (and neither does the plastic arms on old imperial guard bodies).

"A couple?" That was practically every Marine character. Had to be, so you could choose whether to do a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, hand flamer, power sword, chain sword, power axe, or some weak weapons that Marines should never touch (but happened to be on the same sprue).

Now, yeah, Marines get the really nice Commander kit for that type of character... which is what every army should have for its leader characters. (Preferably more than that, really.) You've got computers to work with now, it's much easier now to set up a different position for an arm (or arm swap even) and include multiple weapons. Heck, they did something like that with Grimm Burloksson. Check it:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070205004_GrimmBurlokssonSprue.jpg

See? You have two options for each arm. You can go even further with that. It just takes a little more time to set up than monopose with no options, but these days it's all about cutting corners (even at the expense of quality) and charging more at the same time. Crazy thing is, Burlok's a pretty recent release, just $21, with options, so why would anyone be okay with $30 for someone with no options?

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Got ya

It is as you mentioned a board game set usually we get monopose in them and most starters (BaC being a delicious exception). We did get multipose versions of the basic troops in the AoS starter so it might happen.

A Deathwatch Sprue to be used with other SM sets would be great.

For the game, monopose is totally fine. They're just for board games. Ditto for special characters. It's mainly just a "wish list" thing for GC characters, but that'd still depend on what options they might have in a hypothetical (for now) codex/supplement.

[grimmas]

"A couple?" That was practically every Marine character. Had to be, so you could choose whether to do a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, hand flamer, power sword, chain sword, power axe, or some weak weapons that Marines should never touch (but happened to be on the same sprue).

Now, yeah, Marines get the really nice Commander kit for that type of character... which is what every army should have for its leader characters. (Preferably more than that, really.) You've got computers to work with now, it's much easier now to set up a different position for an arm (or arm swap even) and include multiple weapons. Heck, they did something like that with Grimm Burloksson. Check it:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070205004_GrimmBurlokssonSprue.jpg

See? You have two options for each arm. You can go even further with that. It just takes a little more time to set up than monopose with no options, but these days it's all about cutting corners (even at the expense of quality) and charging more at the same time. Crazy thing is, Burlok's a pretty recent release, just $21, with options, so why would anyone be okay with $30 for someone with no options?

Space marines have so many sets with so many options. I think they're ok. Don't forget there is already a Deathwatch bits pack (metal though).

Soooo Burlok's a recent release, they do options then. I'm messing with you a bit. I think your issue is the price not really the option which are largely irrelevant for named characters. Also if the models a plastic converting them is pretty darn easy especially with all the spare parts on sprites these days.

The other weapon on the close combat Sprue was the worlds widest auto pistol and yes no space marine would have used it.

[Haighus]

The monopose IG Commissar model released with the AM codex has options- he can be equipped with either a plasma pistol or a bolt pistol which come with the set. Also cost less than most of the other clampack characters. I gave mine a bolt pistol- the super cheap relic bolt pistol for Commissars is actually decent too so I usually run him with that.

[Erik Setzer]

The monopose IG Commissar model released with the AM codex has options- he can be equipped with either a plasma pistol or a bolt pistol which come with the set. Also cost less than most of the other clampack characters. I gave mine a bolt pistol- the super cheap relic bolt pistol for Commissars is actually decent too so I usually run him with that.

Yeah, so that's another example that they *can* do it. As a Commissar Lord, it's not bad, because you only need one in an army usually. More than one, and it could be a problem.

Side note, that models' pose is wonderful for putting his boot on a barrel, giving him long hair and some dashing facial hair, and an old-timey hat, to convert your very own Rogue Trader Captain by the name of Morgan.

[Haighus]

Side note, that models' pose is wonderful for putting his boot on a barrel, giving him long hair and some dashing facial hair, and an old-timey hat, to convert your very own Rogue Trader Captain by the name of Morgan.

Oooh.... I like this idea... Damn, don't give me more potential/half finished hobby projects to start! XD

[Erik Setzer]

Oooh.... I like this idea... Damn, don't give me more potential/half finished hobby projects to start! XD

Sadly, it's one of my own half-finished projects... Got started painting him, I need to finish. Then paint his bodyguard Bullgryn, and start painted some of the other models in his crew.

If the Deathwatch rules for the Marines work as individuals, I might have them join the crew at times, too. Already got an Inquisitor or two, so thematically it'd make sense.

[Path Walker]

Mono-pose models look better and are more enjoyable to paint. Kits with multiple options are more difficult and have to be more static, I'd rather paint a great looking Captain and not have weapon options than have a boring one with the weapons I can choose.

Also, again, Erik fails to understand either economies of scale or layout of plastic moulding frames. The "clampack" Characters are on sprues less than a quarter of the size of the few multipart character kits they've released. That means they cost roughly a quarter of the price to produce the frames for. So GW can release 4 Characters or one Multipart set to make one character with options. Which of these choices is actually going to sell enough units to make its costs back? Yeah.

The Skitarii are pretty stuck in their poses, the odd Special weapon swap and a head tilt for some, but otherwise they're all set it place. Because that's the only financially justifiable way to do a unit like that.

Would he rather they just stuck to only selling the multi-part kits that they know will sell well? There is a reason GW are considered the industry leader with plastic moulding, they've invested massively in it to the point where right now, they're much better at it than anyone else in the world, but of course Erik knows more than them.

[Haighus]

Sadly, it's one of my own half-finished projects... Got started painting him, I need to finish. Then paint his bodyguard Bullgryn, and start painted some of the other models in his crew.

If the Deathwatch rules for the Marines work as individuals, I might have them join the crew at times, too. Already got an Inquisitor or two, so thematically it'd make sense.
Hmm, I'm so bad at getting my models painted, I consider a project 'completed' if the actual unit is assembled... XD Half painted is great!

[Kirsten]

the multipart characters aren't always ideal. the space marine captain has always been very expensive and also a pretty boring model to be honest. the single pose characters look far and away better, much more dynamic. as the plastic ranges get ever bigger, you can make more and more characters yourself anyway.

[Path Walker]

The Wizard Kit, in my opinion the best of the Character boxed sets, makes 2 Wizards but they're pretty much identical apart from having different heads/staff tops, they're pretty boring once you've done one. Decent kit to bash into Inquisitorial henchmen though.

[Mr Mystery]

Plus, the Deathwatch really don't look like single pose kits.

Compare to the Marines in Dark Vengeance.

[Erik Setzer]

the multipart characters aren't always ideal. the space marine captain has always been very expensive and also a pretty boring model to be honest. the single pose characters look far and away better, much more dynamic. as the plastic ranges get ever bigger, you can make more and more characters yourself anyway.

The Captain's $30... that's the same price as the guys who have no options or anything. Sure, the pose could be better, but it's not terrible.

The problem with single-pose really pops up once you have multiples, like Ork Meks or Painboys, stuff like that. Having to convert a bunch of models is much less ideal than having options, because a lot of people frankly aren't good at it, and don't want to risk messing up a model. Sure, some of us can go nuts (like when I decided to just make all my Ogre characters from a box of standard Ogres), but I think the majority of players aren't really keen on whipping out the knife, saw, files, and green stuff.

Named characters? No problem. No need for options and stuff.

Characters that have options or multiples? They should have the ability to swap out stuff. If they don't want to do that, then they need to be willing to spend more on creating more models and producing the molds. Sure, that'd probably cost them more, but do they really want to make the laughable claim of "the best miniatures in the world" while someone's army looks horribly generic with supposedly different characters who look the same? (I guess if you're an executive who literally forgot they're game pieces and thinks a person would only want one to put on a shelf, that's not a problem.) Back ye olden days, the models were often monopose, sure, but you still had multiple Librarians, Techmarines, Chaplains, etc. to choose from, so it wasn't that big of a problem. Somehow, the company grows and gets better at everything and thus has to charge more for its products, but it actually has less ability to produce stuff? Eh?

That's to say nothing of units... Still unhappy with how the Stormfiends turned out. (And if you think of suggesting "just modify them," I'd first tell you to go drop the equivalent of $200 on them and try to figure out how to modify them without very significant reworking of the model.) Thankfully that's a pretty rare occurrence (and more of a problem with the models are covered in detail with "dynamic" poses, not as much with something like Tactical Marines).

[Haighus]

To be fair, most of the time, you do only need one Librarian, or Chaplain, or Captain. Although with Space Marine Captains there are almost enough unique clampack models now to fill out a Chapter's worth...
I can see why it is a much bigger issue with more minor characters, like meks and painboyz and Commissars (not Lord Commissars) which are purchased more as unit upgrades than army centrepieces.
The situation is also better for snowflake Space Marine Chapters. Blood Angels for example, could have a two unique plastic Terminator Librarians as they could use the standard Space Marine one. Unsurprisingly, armies without (spikeless) power armour are neglected again in terms of choice...

[Charon]

I dont really get it why they stopped giving choices (well I get why, it is cheaper for them and we suck it up anyways).

Just compare the empire wizard which comes with a lot of stuff (2 wizards which can be of any of the 5 schools) and the Eldar Autarch which comes with... well 9 parts that builds exactly a single configuration (that basically nobody uses). The difference are 3 €.

[Andersp90]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this (of if it has alredy been posted), but it looks like the old broodlord model is getting the boot:

[This Dave]

Well drat. Was hoping the datasheets would be to make your own Deathwatch units rather than just being rules to use the guys in the game.

Although all will be forgiven if rules to use that Frag Cannon with other Marine armies. I need a Devastator squad full of those things in my life.

[Path Walker]

Well drat. Was hoping the datasheets would be to make your own Deathwatch units rather than just being rules to use the guys in the game.

Although all will be forgiven if rules to use that Frag Cannon with other Marine armies. I need a Devastator squad full of those things in my life.

Those datasheets are specifically for the models from the board game, not a Deathwatch Codex

[Erik Setzer]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this (of if it has alredy been posted), but it looks like the old broodlord model is getting the boot:

The Broodlord from Deathstorm is the only unique character model from the Stormclaw and Deathstorm sets that hasn't been release on its own so far. The BA Captain, Krom, and Grukk have all been released on their own. The Broodlord is likely getting slapped in a clampack finally, and might get released around the same time as this game to capitalize on people being interesting in buying more Genestealers.

[Andrew Thomas]

But which allies should I take them with? GSCs are obvious, but who should I take to support the Deathwatch? Cadian Arty would plug a lot of gaps, as would Marines or Mechanicus. A Knight or 2, maybe? IDEKWTB.

[Haighus]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this (of if it has alredy been posted), but it looks like the old broodlord model is getting the boot:

It is now sold out in the UK.

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But which allies should I take them with? GSCs are obvious, but who should I take to support the Deathwatch? Cadian Arty would plug a lot of gaps, as would Marines or Mechanicus. A Knight or 2, maybe? IDEKWTB.

Surely an Inquisitorial detachment with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and his henchpeople, alongside a Militarum Tempestus detachment? Then you would have an Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial task-force with attached Deathwatch and Inquisitorial Stormtrooper assets...

[Charon]

Surely an Inquisitorial detachment with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and his henchpeople, alongside a Militarum Tempestus detachment? Then you would have an Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial task-force with attached Deathwatch and Inquisitorial Stormtrooper assets...

When he mentioned "plugging gaps" and 1 or 2 knights it should have been clear that a fluffy force was not the goal here.

[Andrew Thomas]

It is now sold out in the UK.

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Surely an Inquisitorial detachment with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and his henchpeople, alongside a Militarum Tempestus detachment? Then you would have an Ordo Xenos Inquisitorial task-force with attached Deathwatch and Inquisitorial Stormtrooper assets...

Lack of AA, AT, and Transpo is what I meant by "gaps," but yeah, Scions can get me a lot of that for a modest cost. Trouble is, nothing can carry Seberei and you have to include him in the unit to take the whole Kill Team.

[Andrew Thomas]

Got it: Skitari, with Dune Crawlers & Ironstriders. Covers all the bases.

[AdamHarry]

via Fxeni (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1920/671862.page#top), Dakkadakka 2-28-2016


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[Haighus]

The full formation actually looks pretty decent- turn one charges, and lots of infiltrating into good positions to take advantage of all those short-ranged weapons and melee units. The Shrouded on turn 1 is also good. I can see this being a useful tool for Tyranid players, perhaps would combo well with the Rising Leviathan Genestealer datasheets to really put a lot of pressure on an enemy force from very early in the game. Coupled with spods with some bigger things, this could be pretty aggressive.

[Andrew Thomas]

The full formation actually looks pretty decent- turn one charges, and lots of infiltrating into good positions to take advantage of all those short-ranged weapons and melee units. The Shrouded on turn 1 is also good. I can see this being a useful tool for Tyranid players, perhaps would combo well with the Rising Leviathan Genestealer datasheets to really put a lot of pressure on an enemy force from very early in the game. Coupled with spods with some bigger things, this could be pretty aggressive.

Agreed. GSCs are rude.

Also, is it just me, or are Purestrains objectively better than Codex Genestealers? I'd definitely take these over those anytime.

In fact, since the named characters are the only Unique units in this set of Datasheets, spamming Purestrain Princelings looks like a viable strategy. Hopefully, you can take them in unit sizes greater than 2 in the Codex.

[Erik Setzer]

Looking through the WD rules, there's some weird issues. Like that the faction isn't actually noted anywhere. Or how you can, in theory, take an Allied Detachment with the "squad" as a Troops choice, and then one or two others as Fast Attack or Elites (being one-man one-Wound units), along with an Independent character who might be able to join units... if you knew what faction he was. We can all assume they're Imperial, but that's a huge detail to leave out. Ditto on whether you can include the units in a Space Marine army.

The Blood Claw has a bolter. In my headcanon, he's not a Blood Claw. He's either an immature Grey Hunter, or a Wolf Guard who was just too annoying. (His backstory already is that he was just too annoying and got sent away.)

The Terminator having a heavy flamer and meltagun is a bit overkill.

Models look nice, but pretty much can only be assembled one way, which limits their use. But since this is a board game and they're primarily board game pieces, that's not really a problem.

Though it's interesting they're aiming to market this board game to veteran players (i.e. existing customers). Not really in agreement on that strategy, but that's probably a tangent for a whole other topic.

[Ravingbantha]

The favored disciples have an autopistol, close combat weapon, and rending claws... does that mean they get +2A for the extra weapons? If so, that would be 4 attacks each and 5 on a charge for a total of 60 attacks on a charge.

[Andrew Thomas]

The favored disciples have an autopistol, close combat weapon, and rending claws... does that mean they get +2A for the extra weapons? If so, that would be 4 attacks each and 5 on a charge for a total of 60 attacks on a charge.

Just 1 extra attack. Generally, you go by how many melee weapons are listed in their wargear and whether or not they have a keyword that affects the number of bonus attacks they grant, like Specialist Weapon or Daemon Weapon, for example. Some weapons will tell you whether they grant extra attacks in their rules, like the Sicarian's Prehensile Dataspike or the Warpsmith's Mechatendrils, but some have been denied in the RAW, like Servo-arms/Harnesses. Generally, a model can't claim more than one bonus attack from having multiple weapons, regardless of the number of weapons or limbs they possess, unless the model's or weapon's rules say otherwise.

[energongoodie]

Patriarch has BS 0 so can not psychic shriek...this seems ridiculous.... :(

[mistergone]

Looking through the WD rules, there's some weird issues. Like that the faction isn't actually noted anywhere. Or how you can, in theory, take an Allied Detachment with the "squad" as a Troops choice, and then one or two others as Fast Attack or Elites (being one-man one-Wound units), along with an Independent character who might be able to join units... if you knew what faction he was. We can all assume they're Imperial, but that's a huge detail to leave out. Ditto on whether you can include the units in a Space Marine army.

This is answered on the inside cover of the WD, of all places ("How to use your free Deathwing rules pullout"). They're Deathwatch faction, and count as Armies of the Imperium on the Allies matrix.

So you can take them as an Allied Detachment, but they aren't a Space Marines faction at this point.

[DGH875]

Sorry for a slightly off topic post, but where can you buy white dwarf from in the UK these days? I exhausted every option I could in my local town yesterday.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Whsmiths is the only other place that I know.

[Erik Setzer]

This is answered on the inside cover of the WD, of all places ("How to use your free Deathwing rules pullout"). They're Deathwatch faction, and count as Armies of the Imperium on the Allies matrix.

So you can take them as an Allied Detachment, but they aren't a Space Marines faction at this point.

Hmm. Would have assumed they'd put that in the actual rules pullout. Glad I didn't pull mine out of the magazine. I assumed they were their own sub-faction in the Imperial wing, but it's good to have that in writing. Does mean you can't just throw the individual guys into other Marine armies, but you can still do a weird Allied detachment with lone-Marine units.

Have to admit it was kind of funny that they noted you can't run two Cassius's in the same army.

[DGH875]

Whsmiths is the only other place that I know.
Thanks! I don't live near a big one tho, I'll try to get to one next weekend.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Erik, do you have any idea how 7th works?
You can take anything...

My Deathwatch army has Sternguard, Vanguard, an Iron Priest, the new Deathwatch Marines, the WHW tanks, etc.

Just take what you like. If you take formations you get bonuses.

[Bigred]

via Scanner (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?29784-Readable-Space-Wolf-Rules) 2-29-2016

Genestealer Cult Allies - Tyranids!

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[Erik Setzer]

Erik, do you have any idea how 7th works?
You can take anything...

My Deathwatch army has Sternguard, Vanguard, an Iron Priest, the new Deathwatch Marines, the WHW tanks, etc.

Just take what you like. If you take formations you get bonuses.

I very much do know how 7th works. The "take anything" is Unbound, and you have to agree with your opponent on whether that's okay or not. Otherwise, there's a lot of ways to approach things, from detachments to formations. It's also important to know what faction units belong to because it affects how they interact with each other, i.e. being able to join allied Independent Characters to units (Battle Brothers) or having to roll if units get too close to each other (Desperate Allies/Come the Apocalypse).

My main comment was meant with Battle-Forged armies, where you can't, for example, take just the lone Blood Angels guy and include him in a BF Blood Angels army. Similarly, you can't just put Cassius into a BF Ultramarines army, he'd need to bring friends in an Allied detachment or the formation. (And the Allied detachment isn't really a great idea, since you can't attach the lone guys that aren't ICs to the main squad.)

The inability to take most of the lone guys isn't a serious issue given that they'd be a one-man one-Wound unit just begging to give your opponent VPs for killing them, it's just something that a person might be curious about. (Especially someone who knows 7th quite well, and considers all the angles of army building.)

[Path Walker]

Unbound is as valid as the Combined Arms Detachment. The rules say to discuss anything you take with your opponent, not just Unbound.

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Sorry for a slightly off topic post, but where can you buy white dwarf from in the UK these days? I exhausted every option I could in my local town yesterday.

Apart from a Warhammer store or local games shop, you can't get them anywhere but online now. Visions is still sold in WH Smith's, but the weekly WD isn't any more.

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Patriarch has BS 0 so can not psychic shriek...this seems ridiculous.... :(

He can in the board game, its on his card. I guess that means the issue is with the power, not the Patriarch, it was already pretty oddly worded.

[grimmas]

Yep rulwise unbound is as valid as anything else.

I've given up on print a White Dwarf and just get mine via the smart phone App. Apart from FW stuff I it all digitally the enhanced editions are better anyway.

[Path Walker]

Yep rulwise unbound is as valid as anything else.

I've given up on print a White Dwarf and just get mine via the smart phone App. Apart from FW stuff I it all digitally the enhanced editions are better anyway.

The Enhanced Editions show just how far GW went to edit out the logo on the back of one of the Corehammer shirts on a picture of last years Warhammer Fest.

[packard57]

One thing that does seem promising, the sprues that the Deathwatch figures come on have the right breakdown to fit in to a standard box .I hope this means that a boxed set of these guys will be available eventually.

[Erik Setzer]

Yep rulwise unbound is as valid as anything else.

I'd never argue it isn't. Love Unbound and all the fun things you can do with it. Unfortunately, it *does* require opponent agreement, and too often people hear "Unbound" and think of something like eight Wraithknights or whatever, rather than a fluffy list using an interesting concept.

[Mr Mystery]

The Enhanced Editions show just how far GW went to edit out the logo on the back of one of the Corehammer shirts on a picture of last years Warhammer Fest.

I say Willis, I'm afraid the meaning of your statement is unclear. Could you possibly provide clarification, old bean?

[energongoodie]

He can in the board game, its on his card. I guess that means the issue is with the power, not the Patriarch, it was already pretty oddly worded.

I meant purely for use in 40K :)
I'm looking forward to playing the board game but I think I will get far more use out of these fellas in 40k.

[Path Walker]

I say Willis, I'm afraid the meaning of your statement is unclear. Could you possibly provide clarification, old bean?

There was a Corehammer T Shirt with a moshing Space Marine on the back in the style of a certain hardcore design, someone was wearing one at Warhammer Fest.
When his picture was in WD, it was 'shopped to be a plain white t shirt, on the Enhanced Edition, you can see the "Corehammer" print on the bottom of the shirt which identifies it!

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I meant purely for use in 40K :)
I'm looking forward to playing the board game but I think I will get far more use out of these fellas in 40k.

I getcha, I just mean that if he can use the power in the board game, I assume they meant for him to use the power in 40K too!

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I'd never argue it isn't. Love Unbound and all the fun things you can do with it. Unfortunately, it *does* require opponent agreement, and too often people hear "Unbound" and think of something like eight Wraithknights or whatever, rather than a fluffy list using an interesting concept.

The interpretation that Unbound requires your opponents permission also means that using any method of choosing your army requires discussion with the opponent. This is correct of course, all armies should be discussed and agreed before the game.

[Brakkart]

White Dwarf Daily has a pretty decent video playthrough of Mission 7 up today. It's an hour and a half long to watch it, but really well done. I enjoyed watching Amy's Deathwatch team take on Chris's Cultists.


https://youtu.be/Kh_aL3IX1dc

[grimmas]

I'd never argue it isn't. Love Unbound and all the fun things you can do with it. Unfortunately, it *does* require opponent agreement, and too often people hear "Unbound" and think of something like eight Wraithknights or whatever, rather than a fluffy list using an interesting concept.


These days you really need your opponents agreement for any force organisation or at least a chat about what's allowed 😳. I've always found it a little disappointing that people automatically assume the worse when it comes to an other's army selection, they certainly do though.

[Psychosplodge]

So has anyone noticed that blood ravens leg yet?

http://i.imgur.com/ILOCxt5.png?1

[Mr Mystery]

It's....erm....quite leggy? And I have to say, as a regular user of legs, it's in the most anatomically appropriate place?

[Psychosplodge]

I meant the "Vidya" scroll as in vidya games as in video games? :D

[Mr Mystery]

Ahhhhhhhhhh.

Now I get the picture.

[energongoodie]

I getcha, I just mean that if he can use the power in the board game, I assume they meant for him to use the power in 40K too!


I'm sure that is what they assumed :) They assumed wrong.
But rules are rules :)

I'm hoping enough people email them and they will faq something...hopefully....maybe...

[Andersp90]

Does the fluff in the new box explain the differences, between a patriarch and a broodlord?

"Deathstorm" (novella) was very unclear on the subject.

[Psychosplodge]

Ones unhumanly fast with sharp claws, ones fast with ridiculously sharp claws. Both want to kiss you.

[Mr Mystery]

Does the fluff in the new box explain the differences, between a patriarch and a broodlord?

"Deathstorm" (novella) was very unclear on the subject.

Currently, I'm seeing the Broodlord as 'an alpha construct' of the Hive Fleets - so in essence a sub-species of Genestealer intended to lead them in battle only. Whereas a Patriarch is an overdeveloped Purestrain.

[Andersp90]

Currently, I'm seeing the Broodlord as 'an alpha construct' of the Hive Fleets - so in essence a sub-species of Genestealer intended to lead them in battle only. Whereas a Patriarch is an overdeveloped Purestrain.

That makes sense.

The broodlord/patriarch in "Deathstorm" was described as being bigger, faster, stronger and smarter than any broodlord the main character had ever encountered before.

Also, (SPOILER ALERT) it was born by a human female.

[grimmas]

Also, (SPOILER ALERT) it was born by a human female.

It better have been that's how Genestealers breed

[Psychosplodge]

Well it doesn't have to be human.

But considering orks are now fungus does that mean you can no longer have a orkgenestealer hybrid? Or do they give of dodgy spores instead?

[grimmas]

Well it doesn't have to be human.

But considering orks are now fungus does that mean you can no longer have a orkgenestealer hybrid? Or do they give of dodgy spores instead?


I'd suggest that the fact Orks don't breed anymore kind of puts a kibosh on the Ork hybrids. Do you remember the initial fluff on squigs being made from DNA the Tyranids had absorbed from Orks which the Orks had in turn rescued from the Tyranids. Strange days.

[Patrick Boyle]

I meant the "Vidya" scroll as in vidya games as in video games? :D

According to the limited history of their chapter the Blood Ravens have, in their earliest records Azariah Vidya was the Chapter's Chief Librarian at a point where the Chapter suffered devastating losses, including the most of the first company and the Chapter Master. It was Vidya taking leadership of what was left and the use of his gift of precognition in planning that allowed the Chapter to not only escape destruction but to wipe out the Chaos Marine forces that had laid the original trap. Vidya is known as the Great Father in the Chapter, and is the second most revered figure next to the Emperor as they don't know which Primarch their geneseed came from (or it's at the very least not common knowledge; It's pretty clear that at least Davian Thule(now a dreadnought) and Gabriel Angelos know that they're Thousand Sons successors...), and was the one who started the tradition of the roles of Chief Librarian and Chapter Master being held by the same individual that continued on up to Azariah Kyras' betrayal and fall to Chaos.


I'd suggest that the fact Orks don't breed anymore kind of puts a kibosh on the Ork hybrids. Do you remember the initial fluff on squigs being made from DNA the Tyranids had absorbed from Orks which the Orks had in turn rescued from the Tyranids. Strange days.

There were Ork Hybrids in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels, or it's at least heavily implied, it's been a while. He finds himself stranded aboard a Space Hulk full of both stealers in one end and a growing Waaagh in the other, and ends up encountering an Ork patrol that strangely attacks him in complete silence and with unusual coordination. The Cain novels are recent enough that Orks definitely reproduce by spore in them too; Even if the Imperium doesn't recognize the mechanism there's talk of the Valhallans burning Ork corpses because it seems to keep the population down.

[Psychosplodge]

I've never actually owned an ork codex(which will be rectified now I have a pile of orks) so must have missed that.

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According to the limited history of their chapter the Blood Ravens have, in their earliest records Azariah Vidya was the Chapter's Chief Librarian at a point where the Chapter suffered devastating losses, including the most of the first company and the Chapter Master. It was Vidya taking leadership of what was left and the use of his gift of precognition in planning that allowed the Chapter to not only escape destruction but to wipe out the Chaos Marine forces that had laid the original trap. Vidya is known as the Great Father in the Chapter, and is the second most revered figure next to the Emperor as they don't know which Primarch their geneseed came from (or it's at the very least not common knowledge; It's pretty clear that at least Davian Thule(now a dreadnought) and Gabriel Angelos know that they're Thousand Sons successors...), and was the one who started the tradition of the roles of Chief Librarian and Chapter Master being held by the same individual that continued on up to Azariah Kyras' betrayal and fall to Chaos..

So more than one nod to their true origins




There were Ork Hybrids in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels, or it's at least heavily implied, it's been a while. He finds himself stranded aboard a Space Hulk full of both stealers in one end and a growing Waaagh in the other, and ends up encountering an Ork patrol that strangely attacks him in complete silence and with unusual coordination. The Cain novels are recent enough that Orks definitely reproduce by spore in them too; Even if the Imperium doesn't recognize the mechanism there's talk of the Valhallans burning Ork corpses because it seems to keep the population down.

Forgot about that.

[Patrick Boyle]

Mostly off topic, while its cool that the Blood Ravens have an official model now(though I would have liked some more chapter specific bits; the shoulder pad and the raven's head on the sword's pommel are neat, but that greave would be just as at home on any given Blood Angels model), I'm a bit concerned to discover that the Blood Ravens transfer sheet is no longer listed on the Forgeworld website. Maybe, given the Deathwatch model's shoulder is using the updated Space Marine game version of their emblem, it's a sign of things to come, given the transfer sheet was the Dawn of War 2 version. Or maybe it's just not coming back and it's a good thing I grabbed an extra. Fingers crossed they show up as a secondary force with some resin bits in the next Imperial Armor though. After all, I don't know when they updated the photos for it, but there's a Blood Ravens Thunderhawk among their images for it now...

[Andersp90]

It better have been that's how Genestealers breed

Humans do not give birth to purestrains though. :)

[grimmas]

Humans do not give birth to purestrains though. :)

Ah I see your point.

They will if impregnanted by a 4th gen Hybrid. The Patriarch is usually the Purestrain that starts off the whole Cult rather than one born into it though. This is getting more intriguing

[Andersp90]

Ah I see your point.

They will if impregnanted by a 4th gen Hybrid. The Patriarch is usually the Purestrain that starts off the whole Cult rather than one born into it though. This is getting more intriguing

The "spawn of cryptus" did start the cult (even though we never see any hybrids). So that part makes sense.

But as far as I know, the 4th gen hybrids breed with each other and not humans?

[Haighus]

The "spawn of cryptus" did start the cult (even though we never see any hybrids). So that part makes sense.

But as far as I know, the 4th gen hybrids breed with each other and not humans?
Spawn of Cryptus may have just been an unusual example- I'm sure the methods of the cults adapts to the best strategy available, and the cult on the planet visited by the mother of the Spawn must have decided that impregnating her was the best strategy to spread their progeny.

[grimmas]

The "spawn of cryptus" did start the cult (even though we never see any hybrids). So that part makes sense.

But as far as I know, the 4th gen hybrids breed with each other and not humans?

They still breed with humans they just do it using human "equipment" (no ovipositor). The first offspring is purestrain and any further offspring will be human (well brood brother human which is a bit different)

[Andersp90]

Spawn of Cryptus may have just been an unusual example- I'm sure the methods of the cults adapts to the best strategy available, and the cult on the planet visited by the mother of the Spawn must have decided that impregnating her was the best strategy to spread their progeny.

That makes a lot of sense, though, I still wonder what happent to the hybrids.


They still breed with humans they just do it using human "equipment" (no ovipositor).

I did not know that. :) - and it makes no sense to me biologily.

[grimmas]

I did not know that. :) - and it makes no sense to me biologily.

It is 40K after all. Of course this is all very old background the Genestealer Cult stuff was White Dwarf 114-116 over 25 years ago. The main consideration is that Genestealers can't breed with each other they need another species for that.

[Andersp90]

It is 40K after all. Of course this is all very old background the Genestealer Cult stuff was White Dwarf 114-116 over 25 years ago. The main consideration is that Genestealers can't breed with each other they need another species for that.

True. :)

It will be interesting to see, how the new fluff develops.

[ajefferism]

Anyone know the base count for this? I was thinking of getting some Secret Weapon bases to use with these models to match the steel grating of the board tiles. I've found that it uses 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm and 75mm bike calvary bases, but not how many of each, especially the 25mm and 32mm. I haven't seen the number of bases in any unboxing articles yet...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

9 32mms for Marines, 1 75mm oval, 1 40mm.
1st and 2nd gen cultists are on 32mms, 3rd and 4th gen are on 25mms, not sure about the rest

[Path Walker]

Humans do not give birth to purestrains though. :)

They do, or they did anyway, 4th Generation would give birth to full Purestrain Genestealers.

[Mr Mystery]

They do, or they did anyway, 4th Generation would give birth to full Purestrain Genestealers.

It's more complex than that though.

The father could be 100% human, and the mother a 4th Generation Hybrid. At this juncture, no, human's don't give birth to Purestrains.

Both parents could be hybrids - so again, strictly speaking, no human has given birth to a Purestrain.

But....If the father was a 4th Gen Hybrid, and the mother a 100% Human...then yes, a human can give birth to a Purestrain.

From memory, the exact mechanics aren't really explained in any detail. There's nothing to cover, for instance, what happens if 1st Gen and a 4th Gen knock boots. You could conceivably (pune!) get any Gen, including Purestrain out of that dalliance.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Lets hope when they get a codex all this stuff is described in more detail! :D

[Captain Aneurin]

As far as I remember, purestrains, 1st and 2nd generation hybrids could only use their ovipositors to reproduce with the host species. I don't recall anything about hybrids mating with other hybrids, the point being to expand the brood. 1st gen hybrids produce 2nd gen. 2nd gen produce 3rd gen. 3rd gen reproduce 'normally' with the host species, producing 4th gen, one of which becomes the magus. When a 4th gen reproduces with the host species, the offspring is a purestrain. When the brood contains enough purestrains, the depart the planet to start the process again.

[grimmas]

It's more complex than that though.

The father could be 100% human, and the mother a 4th Generation Hybrid. At this juncture, no, human's don't give birth to Purestrains.

Both parents could be hybrids - so again, strictly speaking, no human has given birth to a Purestrain.

But....If the father was a 4th Gen Hybrid, and the mother a 100% Human...then yes, a human can give birth to a Purestrain.

From memory, the exact mechanics aren't really explained in any detail. There's nothing to cover, for instance, what happens if 1st Gen and a 4th Gen knock boots. You could conceivably (pune!) get any Gen, including Purestrain out of that dalliance.


It is more explained than that.

First Genstealers do not breed with each other. Up to the 3th generation they implant genetic information via ovipositor into (in this case) a human who then breeds with another human and the result will be that the first child is a genestealer hybrid any further will be Brood breathren. Some third generation hybrids don't possess ovipositors and they are known as drones (they can still infect humans through their blood in an unexplained procedure). The genestealer infection alters the hosts natural reproduction cycle so a hybrid is produced it doesn't replace it they still need to copulate with another human afterwards.

4th generations use normal human methods to infect others however it isn't noted if this results in a standard Genestealer infection or an actual pregnancy style arrangement. It is noted that the first child is a purestrain and the rest human so I'd suggest the later.


A first and a fourth couldn't knock Boots they first doesn't have the right kit. It wouldn't do anything anyway

[Captain Aneurin]

Grimmas. I bow in the face of superior recall! I'd forgotten the 'urge to reproduce' bit amongst the brood producing hybrids of the relevant generation hybrids. It has been a while. Always had a soft spot for genestealer broods, hope they make a comeback off the chitinous back of this release

[Mr Mystery]

Well, I stand corrected :)

[grimmas]

I've still got the Old White Dwarfs so I dug them out and had a look when the new game was announced 😮

[Charon]

As far as I remember from 2nd edition, 4th generation is almost human (the Magus is from 4th generation) and the first offspring of 4th generation hybrids are purestrain.

[ajefferism]

Anyone know the base count for this? I was thinking of getting some Secret Weapon bases to use with these models to match the steel grating of the board tiles. I've found that it uses 25mm, 32mm, 40mm, 50mm and 75mm bike calvary bases, but not how many of each, especially the 25mm and 32mm. I haven't seen the number of bases in any unboxing articles yet...

Emailed GW's customer support and they responded quickly! Here's what they said:

"Thank you for writing in to us! The base count should be as follows for Deathwatch: Overkill:

40mm round x 1
50mm round x 1
75mm oval x 1
25mm round x 18
32mm round x 31

I hope this helps, and I hope you have a great afternoon. Please let us know should you have any other questions."

[navi]

Had good fun playing this yesterday. Well, playing missions 1,2 and 4, which were very close.

Mission 3 seems horribly broken though. Basically, take the bike, place it on the servo skull and pick it up. Jump over the gap in one of the attack phases. Next turn move 4 zones, block the entry point if need be, next turn move and run off the board.

Nid player has pot luck on his draws and because of the size of the bike, can't even lock the bike down (and generally the two marines can take out one card of nids the first turn and second/third turn just ignore the nids that arrive to run off the board).

Can't see any way the nid player can win except possibly drawing one of the hardest cards (like the patriarch or 5 autogun guys), which is obviously unlikely.

Has anyone else played this mission? Am I missing something?

[Bigred]

via spikeybits (http://www.spikeybits.com/?p=121064&preview=true)3-29-2016

Tempestus Scions come to Deathwatch Overkill


178651786617867

[elotsip]

Any idea which issue these rules will be in?