Is Fateweaver worth it?

[eagleboy7259]

Hey all I've been wondering about the different Chaos Demons HQ choices lately. Since I started my army, I've always run Fateweaver, and I've got a list pretty similar to Bushido's first list or two - Bloodthirster, 2x Soul Grinders, Wing Prince, 4x5 Horrors, 2x5 Plaguebearers, and 3x4 Flamers. Normally I try to drop Fateweaver next to the Bloodthirster and Prince in my first wave to try to keep them around, but after looking at the Adepticon lists from this year I noticed not too many people ran him, or even double greater demon builds.

What I've been seeing a lot of people talk about lately is running the Blue Scribes and Skulltaker Juggernaught with another greater demon. I don't quite get the Blue Scribes, to me they seem to fragile to be worth the HQ slot but am I missing something? What Demons HQ set ups seem to work best? and is Fateweaver even worth it unless I run that Fatecrusher build?

[jimbobjeff]

Fateweaver is very good but in my opinion not worth his points cost, 333 points on a model that can die in one shot is not something I like in a unit. Generally speaking Daemons have quite a good selection of decent HQ choice, The keeper of secrets and great unclean one both give you a relativly cheap and killy monstrous creature, the bloodthirster is, well, a bloodthirster and the lord of change can be Very shooty if a little on the pricey side.

Heralds are a bit more difficult, I like heralds of Khorne on chariots but some people think they are too slow and heralds of tzeentch on charits are a very good way of getting much needed ranged anti tank into the army. I don rate the rest of the heralds although epidemus is very good in a mono nurgle list.

[Nikephoros]

If we are talking competitive, there are only really two HQ worth taking...

1. Fateweaver.
2. 4 Tzeentch Herarlds on Chariots

Fateweaver requires a very tailored list to be effective, obviously. He is a lot of points and you need to get your money's worth by bringing other choices that have synergy with him.

4 Tzeetch heralds, on the other hand, can go in nearly any demon list, and add a dimension to demons that they didn't really have before.

Here is a daemon list I love right now...

4x Herald of Tzeentch on chariot w/ bolt and gaze 380
18x Fiends of Slaanesh w/ 3x Unholy mights 570
30x plaguebearers 450
3x Daemon Prince of Tzeentch w/ Bolt, Gaze 480

Thats 1880 points, so you can add in the fast attack unit of your choice to make 2k. Pretty nasty.

[eagleboy7259]

Nikephoros I usually love and agree with what you have to say, but I 100% disagree with using that many plaguebearers in a list. Sure they are wonderful at camping on objectives and taking up small arms fire but if you get into combat with them they will die. They truely are one of the only units in the Demons 'dex that just hurts bad from being Fearless. That's close to 1/4 of a list that in all reality will not do anything for you outside of objective camping, and with deepstriking troops its not hard to get people where they need to be. I feel like by playing that way you would be playing 1500pt demons vs 2000pt everybody else.

[Nikephoros]

Then use 30x horrors. I've never expected daemon troops to ever do anything. Plaguebearers can't kill, and the others don't live, so I'd rather take the minimum amount needed to hold objectives and let the rest of my list do the killing. Bloodletters and Daemonettes are unusable really, and horrors are pretty bad at holding objectives and only average at killing so at least with plaguebearers they can contest an objective, which the others really cannot.

[Daemonplayer]

[QUOTE=Nikephoros;68078]If we are talking competitive, there are only really two HQ worth taking...

1. Fateweaver.
2. 4 Tzeentch Herarlds on Chariots


Hi your are not allowed to have 4 Tzeentch Herarlds on Chariots, the max you can have with the Fateweaver is 2 to make up the second HQ choice, see page 80 on Daemonic Heralds.

Sorry, you will have to revise your list. I would suggest you take as many flamers as you can with these two HQ choices or/and possibly the demon prince with wings.

Fateweaver is a must with the rerolls on saves. I was dying so quickly before I started using the fateweaver.

cheers!

[Nikephoros]

Hi your are not allowed to have 4 Tzeentch Herarlds on Chariots, the max you can have with the Fateweaver is 2 to make up the second HQ choice, see page 80 on Daemonic Heralds.

Sorry, you will have to revise your list. I would suggest you take as many flamers as you can with these two HQ choices or/and possibly the demon prince with wings.

Fateweaver is a must with the rerolls on saves. I was dying so quickly before I started using the fateweaver.

cheers!

I think it is you who needs to re-read it. The FOC has two HQ slots. Each HQ slot can have two Heralds. The book is quite clear.

[DarkLink]

If we are talking competitive, there are only really two HQ worth taking...

1. Fateweaver.
2. 4 Tzeentch Herarlds on Chariots


I dunno, 4 khorne heralds on chariots is pretty sweet too, for how cheap they are. Dropping 4 4 wound, T5, 3/5+ save models in your opponents face is a pretty big distraction.

[eagleboy7259]

So no greater demon asides from Fateweaver is worth it? and even he's sketchy unless you're playing Fatecrusher?

[Nikephoros]

So no greater demon asides from Fateweaver is worth it? and even he's sketchy unless you're playing Fatecrusher?

I honestly don't think so. TH/SS termies pretty much put the nail into the coffin for Bloodthirsters. And the Unclean One and KoS are easier to kill and less dangerous than the bloodthirster.

[DarkLink]

I honestly don't think so. TH/SS termies pretty much put the nail into the coffin for Bloodthirsters. And the Unclean One and KoS are easier to kill and less dangerous than the bloodthirster.

So a single unit from a single army (ok, so the SM variants get them, too, but they're also way more expensive) makes a unit no longer worth it?

[Nikephoros]

So a single unit from a single army (ok, so the SM variants get them, too, but they're also way more expensive) makes a unit no longer worth it?

It's not just one unit, there are a dozen very common units from multiple codexes that easily kill greater daemons. They are fire magnets that die very quickly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm only talking about in competitive environments, not friendly games with fluff lists. If you expect greater daemons to last more than two turns against a competitive army, you're crazy.

[eagleboy7259]

I don't 100% completely agree... the reason I asked in the first place was that the lists from Adepticon along with a number of others posted on DakkaDakka were all running Skulltaker, Bluescribes, and Bloodthirster. When placed alongside 3x Demon Princes or Soul Grinders along with other scary "in your face, kill me before I kill you" units in our codex I feel like for the most part by our unit placement we control our opponents target priority.

I know the argument for Tzeentch Heralds is that our book has one hell of a time dealing with Mech heavy lists. But with Alpha Strike Flamers, Noobcrushers, etc, I don't feel that the fire magnet argument holds much water.

[Nikephoros]

I don't 100% completely agree... the reason I asked in the first place was that the lists from Adepticon along with a number of others posted on DakkaDakka were all running Skulltaker, Bluescribes, and Bloodthirster.

Yeah I saw that list. I wondered what anyone would take skulltaker (anti-tyranid MC?) or blue scribes. I thought that list was a joke.


When placed alongside 3x Demon Princes or Soul Grinders along with other scary "in your face, kill me before I kill you" units

Daemon Princes are good if they are Nurgle or Tzeetch. Tzeentch because they are cheap and do stuff Daemons usually suck at, and Nurgle because they dont keel over and die to small arms fire. Soul Grinders, in the age of 12 meltagun lists, are a downright awful unit.


I feel like for the most part by our unit placement we control our opponents target priority.

I used to be a believer in target saturation and overload as being the saving grace of daemons. "You can't kill 5 MC and some bloodcrushers on the first turn." Unfortunately, I was disabused of that notion. Eldar lists with 88 strength 6 shots, IG lists with Autocannons, Multilasers and meltaguns etc can all easily do it, or at least kill enough to neuter you.


But with Alpha Strike Flamers, Noobcrushers, etc, I don't feel that the fire magnet argument holds much water.

Flamers are the third best elite choice in the book. Considering that You need 18 Fiends (in a normal list) or 12 crushers (with fateweaver) just to have a shot at beating good opponents I don't see how Flamers fit in anymore. Even if they wounded on a 2+ and cost 25 points I'm not sure they would be better than the other choices.

[eagleboy7259]

Oh it wasn't just that one list on TastyTaste's Blog, that I will admit looked awful but not because of the HQ choices. Skulltaker I can honestly see if you are taking noobcrushers because his ability to rend on a 4+ is somewhat of a salvation when they get locked into combat with a dread. The Bluescribes are what have me wondering, because I've heard soooo many people dropping Fateweaver for the Bluescribes and unless you throw him in with Flamers or Horrors he's dead.

Flamers are fitting simply because sadly I don't have $200 to blow on a single unit. For under $60 you can fit out all three elites slots with a fairly decent unit. I sometimes wonder who the heck has all that money to blow chasing power builds the minute that new books come out... as for those IG and Eldar lists, it all sounds cheesy to me.