Units, battle missions, etc

[Denzark]

Hello chaps

Have just played a Battle mission - 2nd IG mission, believe attrition is what it is called.

The special rule is that any destroyed troops unit comes back in as reserve, minus its dedicated transport. Victory conditions are to take points costs for 100% destroyed units.

The question is, can you clever chaps come up with any reference to define the unit in this case. IE, when fighting BAs, with dedicated transport LRs, do I have to kill the LR and the contained unit before getting the points for it?

In the event we played that we did indeed have to kill unit and transport. The flip side is that 2 x troops choice nasty raging dreads, came in in drop pods - once I dispatched them I left the pods as late as possible to stop the dreads from coming back in.


Any thoughts/pointers would be helped.

[Nabterayl]

Hello chaps

Have just played a Battle mission - 2nd IG mission, believe attrition is what it is called.

The special rule is that any destroyed troops unit comes back in as reserve, minus its dedicated transport. Victory conditions are to take points costs for 100% destroyed units.

The question is, can you clever chaps come up with any reference to define the unit in this case. IE, when fighting BAs, with dedicated transport LRs, do I have to kill the LR and the contained unit before getting the points for it?
War of Attrition doesn't change the definition of unit. It only specifies that dedicated transports are not subject to the Unlimited Reserves scenario special rule, despite the fact that dedicated transports may be Troops units.

Hence, if you destroy a Land Raider that is a dedicated transport for a Troops squad of space marines, you would score points for the Land Raider (as the Land Raider is a single-model unit, and thus destroying the Land Raider completely destroys the unit). If you destroyed the transported squad as well, you would score points for that squad. The squad would then be placed in Reserve per the Unlimited Reserves SSR, because it is a unit of Troops. The Land Raider would not be placed in Reserve, despite the fact that it is a unit of Troops, because it is a dedicated transport (again, per the Unlimited Reserves SSR).

Similarly, if you have a dreadnought that is Troops, and that dreadnought has purchased a drop pod, when the dreadnought was destroyed you would score points and the dread would be placed in Reserve. However, the dread would not get a new drop pod (because a drop pod is a dedicated transport), and so would have to walk on from Reserve, whether or not its original drop pod was intact.

[Culven]

The question is, can you clever chaps come up with any reference to define the unit in this case.
Page 3 of the rulebook defines "Unit". You seem to be confusing it with "Choice" which usually refers to all of the Units which are part of a single Force Organization Chart slot.

[Nabterayl]

I think the confusion is that War of Attrition is worded in a way that seems to (but ultimately does not) imply that a unit and its dedicated transport are somehow linked. What War of Attrition says is that when a Troops unit is completely destroyed, an identical unit is generated in Reserve, except that units so generated do not get a dedicated transport even if the original one did. This is a question that would probably come up if it was not specified, but there is actually no reason to believe that a generated unit would have its dedicated transport, since a DT is neither part of the same unit, nor the same FoC choice, as the unit it is bought for.

[Culven]

. . . there is actually no reason to believe that a generated unit would have its dedicated transport, since a DT is neither part of the same unit, nor the same FoC choice, as the unit it is bought for.
Why do you claim that a Dedicated Transport is not part of the same FOC choice as the unit for which it is selected?

[The AKH]

Why do you claim that a Dedicated Transport is not part of the same FOC choice as the unit for which it is selected?

Dedicated transports are bought with a unit, but don't take up a FOC slot.

[Culven]

Dedicated transports are bought with a unit, but don't take up a FOC slot.
I agree that they don't take up another FOC slot, but they have to count as an FOC slot of some type. Otherwise, the example in the Dawn of War rules of the Tactical Squad's Rhino counting against the two Troops Units limits wouldn't make sense. I have always understood Dedicated Transports to be part of the same FOC slot as the unit which selected them. What kind of problems (if any) would arise if Dedicated Transports don't count as any FOC type, as opposed to simply not using another FOC slot?

[Nabterayl]

Oh, a dedicated transport is certainly belongs to one of the five FoC types, or slots, yes. But nothing in the rulebook says that it is part of the same choice as the unit it is bought for. In 5th edition this doesn't come up much, but I think the distinction is still there.