Supporting Staff for a Marine Battle Company

[jcflanker]

A Space marine battle company would normally be deployed in a strike cruiser. The company consists of 100 marines plus the captain his command squad, apothecary, chaplin, librarian and a few tech marines. Also there are bound to be a a couple of dreadnaughts.

I know there are a gaggle of servitors assigned to the company too.

If all 100 marines at full strength are deployed in the field, who mans the support vehicles like Predators, Vindicators, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Speeders, Land Raiders and Whirlwinds?

On the Strike Cruiser who pilots the Thunderhawks and who other than Servitors crew the ship?

[Melissia]

Whoever plot demands.

[Nabterayl]

There are three possible answers, depending on chapter and/or mission:

The battle company deploys unsupported. This means that every space marine officer on the strike cruiser, every Thunderhawk crewman, and every ground vehicle custodian comes out of the battle company. How that gets done would be up to the local force commander, probably (but not necessarily) the company captain - for instance, he could break up one squad to serve as Rhino custodians for the entire company, or he might have every squad surrender one man to be its own Rhino custodian, or he might use some combination of both. Company supernumeraries could be used for this role too; for instance, the company's techmarine could take command of the strike cruiser while the captain deployed to the ground.
The battle company deploys supported by another company, usually one of the reserve companies. Squads of a reserve company (typically but not necessarily one of the tactical reserve companies) would serve as starship officers, aircrews, and man the ground vehicles. For instance, a tactical squad of third company might be driven around by a member of seventh company.
The chapter has specific supernumeraries to serve as starship, aircraft, and ground vehicle crews.

Any mission could end up in #1, but as far as I can tell it's the rarest scenario. #2 is the codex scenario, as the Imperial Armour series makes plain. But any chapter could adopt #3 - including, ironically, the Ultramarines. We've seen several supernumerary Ultramarine characters serving as full-time starship and vehicle custodians, who are part of no company and are not other specialists (e.g., Sgt. Chronus may be formally attached to the chapter armory, but he is not a techmarine).

[Fellend]

I do belive it's mentioned that it's often performed by members of other companies the higher ones 10,9th,8th

But I liked Brotherhood of the Snake where they actually had to leave the rhino to fight with full strength. It amuses me greatly to see the rhino parked somewhere =)

[gwensdad]

Depends on whose writing the background that day. :(
Sometimes it's listed as members of the reserve companies, sometimes it's marines within the company-which would make a chapters strength really somewhere around 2000 marines if all the vehicles are being manned.

[Nabterayl]

Most chapters can't man all their vehicles, at least not while still fielding 1,000 infantry. Space marines may be lean, self-sufficient and efficient, but this is still 40K. They're only self-sufficient and efficient by the standards of the Imperium.

[lobster-overlord]

I've built my army as if they were Techmarine units assigned/built from the chapter. 1000 would be the line companies (the 10 companies that build teh chapter) and their would be an armor company broken up to man the vehicles attached to each Battle or reserve company.

I do not really know fluff, as I don't read much other than the codex I am building at the time.

[Nabterayl]

As far as I'm aware Imperial Armour is the only fluff source that directly purports to describe the standard space marine way of handling things, and IA says that the crews come out of the battle companies or the reserve companies. There are sources that describe other ways of doing things, but none of them claim to describe the standard method, so by my fluffiography Imperial Armour is the source to turn to.

[gorepants]

The new blood angels codex does have one bit of common sense in it: it states that deployment is rarely along company lines - a task force will be who ever is needed at the time. This obviates the problem of who's crewing vehicles since it's just guys in the task force.

When Space Marine (epic) introduced company formations, the support companies (6-9) suddenly appeared and had to be given a back story. A lot of fluff has them supplying drivers and pilots. Thunderhawks are just big flying tanks so it's more marines piloting them.

The cruiser's crew would primarily be normal humans (plus navigator + astropaths) since someone needs to stick around when the marines all go fighting and boss the servitors around. Chapters would have more non-marines than marines, with all of the stuff that needs doing around the place (mantainance, nurse work in the apothecary, personal slaves, etc, etc). These are usually depicted as guys in robes, and (especially int the older artwork) heavilly mech'd up (lots of tube face guys). The support staff wold come from a mix of members brought in from other organisations (senior people like psykers, navigators and admech types), hereditary serfs, indentured workers and slaves, depending on the homeworld civilisation of the chapter (freemen are unlikely given the distance most chapters keep from normal populations).

[lobster-overlord]

So how many guys are in each vehicle?

[gwensdad]

So how many guys are in each vehicle?

If my memory is right:
Rhino 1
Razorback 2
Predator 3 (maybe 4?)
Land Raider 3 (or4?)
T-Hulk 1 pilot, 1 co-pilot, ? gunners

[Nabterayl]

Rhino: 1
Razorback: 1
Predator: 2
Whirlwind: 2
Vindicator: 2
Land Raider: 3
Thunderhawk Gunship: 4
Thunderhawk Transporter: 2

Thankfully for the space marines, remote-operated turret and pintle mounts are fairly common (i.e., the custodian of a Rhino/Razorback can control all of the vehicle's weaponry without having to physically man the weapon, although of course that's an option). Dedicated gun platforms such as Predators have a gunner anyway, presumably so the gunner doesn't have to concentrate on driving as well.

Note that the Rhino and Razorback crews are a little funky owing to how cramped they are. A fully loaded Rhino has a custodian in the driver's seat, nine passengers in the troop compartment (only six of which get seats), and the passengers' sergeant up front in the second cupola. Yet another holdover of going to war with tractors :p

[Tynskel]

So how many guys are in each vehicle?

Older codexes used to list # of crew. There were rules in the past for soldiers abandoning vehicles, and you could deny a 'kill point' if the crew escaped off the board.

Chronos, for the space marines, is a good example: he sometimes gets out of his tank, and can join a squad.

[rkiviman]

It really depends on the mission of each strike force. It vehicles are needed crews are provided by the reserve companies or the tech marines(as has been said acording to IA). The vehicles are not all necessarily assigned permanently to each CO. but held in the Chapter's armory and assigned as needed. So, it seems when a Co. is deployed the crews are then assigned with them and not necessarily from the Co's strength but sent by the Chapter as required. The crews of the spacecraft (specualtion) seem to be mainly human and servitors with the Space Marines in command. There are exceptions where you see that being given to a trusted human commander as the situation warrants.

[Madness]

About crew numbers, the rule of thumb was that a marine would drive and fire the main weapon system, and another marine for every weapon. At least so it was in 2nd ed.

[Fellend]

I think it's the spacewolf trilogy that speaks of failed candidates still serving as chapter serfs, they drive vehicles help with the repair and logistics of the chapter.

[pgarfunkle]

The Blood Angel books have failed candidates beforming tasks for the chapter as does the rynns world book. It seems to be occuring more as authors start to think about the operations of the chapters. I've thought more and more that the 1,000 marine limit represents line soldiers. Officers and support troopers could push this higher by a few hundred or more depending on the chapter.

[AirHorse]

I expect most chapters organise things as the situation arises without a fully formal system in place.

You also have to remember that almost all squads in the main battle companys are NOT at full strength at most points in time. Its only when we take the game to the table that you really see the idealised version of space marine battle companys with squads of ten men deployed with their own apc and pilot.

Considering alot of marine deployment involves squads working very individually i would imagine that more often than not a member of the squad pilots the vehicle. I would guess it would only be when a large scale deployment is going down would one squad(or possibley specialist support staff who are available) be assigned specifically to piloting duties.

Tanks like predators and whirlwinds which would be assigned from the chapters armoury when the strike force sets out, and not from a companies own pool of transports, would probaly have members of the reserve companies assigned along with them.

My own chapter is reasonabley divergent(may have read my stuff in the thread about it) and each company recruits its own initiates. In the company I am building my army from they make use of mechanised tactics quite heavily and so use their scouts as vehicle pilots and support staff as part of their initiation upto the rank of battle brother.

However i could easily see this kind of thing happen even in a fully codex chapter, as initiates would have to learn their skills at some point.

[Nabterayl]

My own chapter is reasonabley divergent(may have read my stuff in the thread about it) and each company recruits its own initiates. In the company I am building my army from they make use of mechanised tactics quite heavily and so use their scouts as vehicle pilots and support staff as part of their initiation upto the rank of battle brother.
I have a company that behaves similarly. It's worth noting, though, that a full space marine can interface with a vehicle via black carapace and power armor the same way that he can interface with his armor via black carapace, so battle brother custodians would have some advantages over scout custodians.

[Tyrsday]

The way I've always seen it was that scouts don't actually count as full marines yet so the other companies only add up to 900 plus the support staff: 45 command squad members (including apothecaries), 10 captains, chapter master, techs, chaplains, etc. Roughly giving you the extra 100 to round it out to the full 1000.

Now if that's not mathematically enough and you hold the 1000 marine limit as sacred and view the fluff as any kind of indicator of realism then the 1st company is rarely full strength, giving you some wiggle room.

Also since you rarely see the back five-men of a devastator squad fielded with the squad, I always imagined it was they who were driving the vehicles at any given moment, which is my original point. Just got kinda distracted.