Starcraft versus 40K...

[Denzark]

Not wanting to hijack Goooo's thread on his ideas for a starcraft army, what I am interested in is the idea that either warcraft or starcraft were originally going to be warhammer(and/or 40K) based and it got kiboshed.

Now to me this seems a juicy discussion - has anybody got any proof beyond the obvious similarities, any sources can be cited, that GW and Blizzard were in collaboration, but that it was turned off for some reason?

[eagleboy7259]

Everybody stole their ideas from Tolkien, who had been working on his Lord of the Rings series as early as 1917. The Hobbit was published in 1937 and was an important step forward in the development of modern fantasy universes. Although stories of orcs, elves, dwarves had long existed in folk stories Tolkien is though of popularizing the idea of these different races interacting. The Hobbit in turn was a much less complex work, Tolkien's real masterpiece, the trilogy, was published 1954-55 and expanded upon his universe, giving a distinct character to all of the races which for the most part has persisted as stereotypes for fantasy races in our modern culture.

Now fast forward 30 years to when 40k arrived on the scene as Rogue Trader in 1987, which continued to build off primary Tolkien Races - Humans, Orks, Elves (Eldar) and continued to evolve along their own pathway. Space Marines are probably the classic iconic image of Games Workshop although they didn't evolve into their current image until further down the line. It combined classic notions of Knights and Marines, along with Romans and Vikings and whatnot. Good and evil are not original concept either, giving you your chaos marines and dark eldar, the inquisition comes out of actual history and aliens possibly come from Ridely Scott's Alien (1979) and Tau are maybe Gundam? Idk lets just say post war Japanese animation influences.

Blizzard Entertainment showed up on the scene in 1991 and their first titles had nothing to do with the universe they have currently developed: RPM Racing, Battle Chess, Castles, and even a LOTR Tolkien role playing game. Warcraft Orcs & Humans launched in 1994 and Starcraft in 1998 - more than a decade after the launch of Rogue Trader. Could they have taken ideas from GW? Certainly! Nobody owns a copyright on the ideas of humans fighting stuff in space. The ideas of "space marines fighting bugs" could just have easily have come from Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959) That seems more like Terran vs Zerg than Space Marine vs Tyranid to me, burrowing, brain bugs, etc.

As for the Protoss = Eldar = Elves its all common themes. Psychic = Magic right? Super advanced... lets just thank Mr. Tolkien for our fantasy race stereotypes.

[Melissia]

ROGUE trader... it boggles my mind how people get rogue and rouge mixed up... it doesn't even make sense when trying to spell either word phonetically...

[Pyro-enthusiast]

Starcraft actually began life as a Warhammer 40k RTS. Midway through production GW pulled their support, including the rights to their IP and as a result Blizzard was left holding a half finished game. The solution? Retool the skins, change the names, alter a few details and publish it under the name Starcraft.

[Melissia]

Yes, we've all heard that rumor. But the guy's asking for a source.

[Shagrath]

it does seem like there never is anything new in scifi, fantasy...a rather stagnant genre to be honest..

Also I thoroughly enjoy my fantasy/scifi can beat your fantasy/scifi arguments..

[eagleboy7259]

it does seem like there never is anything new in scifi, fantasy...a rather stagnant genre to be honest..

Also I thoroughly enjoy my fantasy/scifi can beat your fantasy/scifi arguments..

Well that really depends... if you're talking about scifi as crazy giant lizards, super aliens threatening mankind or something along those lines where the supernatural exists as an non understandable "other" then yes. However the best science fiction works like Starship Troopers examine human nature and ideals. The back story to 40k is probably so popular because it shares underlying common themes with Shakespeare and the bible which are considered the greatest written works of all time. Heck even Star Trek (Ugg...) was originally conceived by Gene Roddenberry as a critique on the Cold War (Klingon/Russia v. Federation/USA) and combined themes with Westerns and moral stories to create the original space epic.

Of course in this age of computer animation is easy to get scifi garbo on tv but like any genre it has its gems.

[DarkLink]

Right, if you think the Sci-Fi genre is stagnant you haven't been reading any of the good books.

Really, there are only so many ways you can create new technology. Every future sci fi book will probably have some form of similar space craft, space marines, space lasers, etc. And odds are that someone has done something very similar to what you've thought up before, a long time ago.

But sci fi is about more than just technology. Technology is just world-building. And sometimes it can create some interesting plot twists and such. But if the only interesting thing about a book is the world it is set in, it won't be a very good book, whether it's sci fi, fantasy, or whatever.

Good sci fi isn't necessarily just a story with some really inventive new technology that no one has thought of before. Good sci fi can have generic technology but a good plot and characters and be better than a book with cool technology but poor plot and characters.


For a recent example of a really good sci fi book, check out Old Mans War by John Scalzi (I probably misspelled the last name). It takes the well done trope of genetically engineered human soldiers fighting for humanity, and twists it around a little.

[Nabterayl]

I'd just like to point out that if an original setting were the standard of how stagnant a genre is, the speculative fiction genres would be the least stagnant in literature. All that modern literature stuff set in the present day ... /yawn ;)

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

Also I thoroughly enjoy my fantasy/scifi can beat your fantasy/scifi arguments..
My horror/sci fi can take all you b*tches at once.:D

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Theres loads of great original sci-fi still coming out, its just all in the form that works best for it ; books. Of course if you only look at games, films, tv shows - then yeah of course that stuff is going to be stagnant and unoriginal, its the nature of the commercial beast. Of course when someone does do something visually original its usually lost under the radar or ignored for not being "relatable". Luckily for me, I dont care about that so expect a pure abstract alien sci-fi show with nothing human or human-esque in it whatsoever. And hard sci-fi.

[Madness]

AFAIK the Blizzard-GW connection went like this, Blizzard was working on the first warcraft game, contacted GW in order to use their IP, they discussed the thing, it looked like they would go for it, but at the last minute GW said nay.

There was an interview with Chambers a while ago backing this version.

Nothing solid about starcraft/40k (which are rather different as opposed to the 1st WC which is much closer to WH).

[Gooball]

I should really know by now that forums never keep on topic..

[Denzark]

I should really know by now that forums never keep on topic..

Normally I would have just talked over your thread - how mature am I tostart a new one to get to the interesting stuff...:cool:

Now listen everyone else if you have sources, from the industry rather than total hearsay, then that would be juicccceeeeeeeeeee!

[Gooball]

There was a post on the american Wow forums ages ago that Warcraft 1 was supposed to be about warhammer but both companies decided it wasn't in their interest to do it and warcraft came out with completely different races and stuff
Starcraft is based on generic sci-fi things and has nothing to do with 40k (power armour is common in sci-fi so are super advanced aliens and aliens that infect/eat people)
I Cba to go find it but go ahead if you want to look for it

[Melissia]

I don't disagree or give a damn TBH (I don't like starcraft for its gameplay, rather than its setting-- I like the setting), but you're annoying me by basically saying "I'm too lazy to do the research so you go do it and prove me right". Arguments don't work that way. Provide your own damn sources, don't expect other people to do your research for you.

[Gooball]

HQ/fast attack from the chapter is down below in the homebrew for anyone who cares.
Edit; Sorry though i was posting in the thread i made >.< damn similar names. On an unrelated note i am full of tasty food \o/

[Melissia]

Well considering this is my thread about

Noone gives a ****, this isn't your thread.

[Spirit Leech]

The only thing I ever thought was a little too close then to just be stock sci-fi was the style of the zerg and tyranids. I know they are both space bugs but one can do a whole race of space bugs and have them look nothing like 'nids. Take the starship trooper bugs for example, they are pretty unique looking, as were the Ender's Game xeno descriptions. Other then that the other similarities fall within the range of public domain sci-fi.

Something you guys might amusing is that in the MMO Allods everything Arisen looks remarkably Necron. From their black obelisks with neon green inset weird looking lines to the giant floating black pyramid.

(P.S. Anyone read "A Moot in God's Eye"?)

[Gooball]

Zerg are again more like the flood or even the kroot for the way they create more Zerglings and stuff but more like nyds in looks/battle style
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerg