Did GW make a boo boo?

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Ok, concerning the new BA dreadnought weapon the Magna Grapple.

In the rules section and write up of the weapon it says as long as you equal too, or over the AV value of the highest armour value you can drag the said vehicle 2d6 inches towards your Dreadnought.

Now my quest ion is how does a dreadnought that ways several tons (as described in C: SM) drag say a Land Raider? For that matter it doesnt clealy describe the limit of the Magna Grapple and its towing limits.
Could a dreadnought armed with a Grapple drag a Landraider, or how about a Baneblade or even yes by the undefined rules a Titan?

The ruling is any vehicle can be dragged if you roll 8+d6 equalling or higher the highest AV value. So on a 6 (8+6=14) you could drag a titan 2d6 inches. Yes a titan waying atleast a thousand tons (maybe exagerating maybe) to your dreadnought.
Thats like saying you, yes me, you or that guy/girl next to you could drag say a Skyscraper with steal cable. Impossible i know.
But GW in there infinite ability to think way way way outside the box of plausible rules have not taken into the account of plausible, just what would make a great addition to the BA armoury.

[bigbear bailey]

It's almost as if this is a game compared to real life!!!!!!! lol

[Rockatansky]

It's easy for me to visualize.

As the massive titan lifts its leg to take a step the empire's 2nd finest (after the Ultramarines) dreadnaught shoots out its magna grapple and snares its foot, pulling it to the side, causing the titan to stumble and take several steps to stay upright, ending up 2d6" closer.

Maybe it grabs the big toe if its an Emperor Titan. Big toes are crucial for balance.

[Lord Azaghul]

Yes. It can.


Awesome, way to go common sense!

[Fellend]

Lol is it just me that sees a couple of Dreads running with a Titan on a leash, "Come here boy, come on! run into your own forces, step on those chaos lords, good boy!"

[DarkLink]

Well, the forces involved would be massive, but considering the high level of technology that's not what would concern me.

Instead, I have to wonder how the dread doesn't fall over. The tension in the grappler would cause a moment that would tip the dread over if it wasn't properly braced. Kinda like how you have to lean back when you're in a tug of war, or else you'll fall over.

Of course, that could be countered by lowering the line of action along which the grappler acts. So instead of modeling the grappler on the typical arm mount, model it attached to the dread's ankle.

[Xas]

a landraider could be possible as the tank is usually only standing on the ground and the dread could jave some stance-improving equipment in its feet that bolts it down to the ground.

but a baneblade or titan... never.


me is makeing a note to simply ban it from grappling superheavies.

[mathhammer]

yhea it could do it. Simplest example is your on an ice world and the dreadnaught finds a patch on non ice.

patch of mud.

landrider going forwards all of a sudden there is a force vector to the left.

Big toe of a titan (I like that one)

next time a deer knocks a truck off the road I will remember to tell it, that it wasn't heavy enough.

[Tynskel]

You are entering the realm of Apocalypse, where you are playing friends and not competitively. This would imply that you would discuss with your opponent what the Magna Grapple means for Superheavies.

[oggs]

so i can't convert a stormraven to be open topped so the dread inside can use it's magna grapple on a titan like a snowspeeder?

[lobster-overlord]

so i can't convert a stormraven to be open topped so the dread inside can use it's magna grapple on a titan like a snowspeeder?


Cool, now I know what to use as my conversion base :)

I actually really like teh idea of the magna grapple being able to drag a super heavy. They're blood angels for pete's sake, they can do anything...

John M>

[sonsoftaurus]

How can an itty bitty grenade do so much damage? (Vortex grenade)

How can a piece of jewelry stop a lascannon shot or demolisher round? (Rosarius, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, etc.)

How can a big glove tear through a tank? (Power Fist)

etc.

Maybe it's not the cable/strength of the dread doing the pulling, maybe it's the energy field - more emphasis on the magna, less on the grapple. The wire helps pull the field-emitting part, the field pulls the tank.

[gcsmith]

good point couldnt it as a MAGNA or magnet be using the earths gravity against the vehicle making it lighter and thus easier to pull

[RogueGarou]

so i can't convert a stormraven to be open topped so the dread inside can use it's magna grapple on a titan like a snowspeeder?

Good shot, Janson! Errr... Good shot, Revered Brother-Sergeant Alucard!
:)

[Chaosgerbil]

Maybe it plants telescoping spikes in the ground through its feet, to give it leverage, using an adamantium cable, probably powered by Unobtanium.

[Melissia]

How can an itty bitty grenade do so much damage? (Vortex grenade)Nuclear bombs are tiny compared to the devastation they cause, too. Does that mean they aren't realistic?


How can a piece of jewelry stop a lascannon shot or demolisher round? (Rosarius, Refractor Field, Iron Halo, etc.)The "piece of jewelry" is a highly decorated energy field generator. The jewelry does not stop the lascannon shot, the energy field does, and then only sometimes.


How can a big glove tear through a tank? (Power Fist)The power fist is covered in a field of disruptive energy that disrupts things at the molecular level, so it tears through the armor.

[therealjohnny5]

look, it's simple, the cable has hairs made of Chuck Norris' beard and on top of that BA dreads are obviously ninja. put those two things together and whammy. Titians doing the shuffle.

[addamsfamily36]

If in the worlds strongest man , a competitor can pull a jumbo jet from standstill, i woud argue a mechanical dread with advanced techonolgy (which at the end of the day isnt real) could pull a tank which is on tracks in a given direction., these thigns are built to roll.

i would include super heavies.

titans yeh i like the idea of it stepping forward and just tripping it up. take a sledge hammer to a buildings support wall/walls or foundation and you got one semi flat building

[sonsoftaurus]

Nuclear bombs are tiny compared to the devastation they cause, too. Does that mean they aren't realistic?

The "piece of jewelry" is a highly decorated energy field generator. The jewelry does not stop the lascannon shot, the energy field does, and then only sometimes.

The power fist is covered in a field of disruptive energy that disrupts things at the molecular level, so it tears through the armor.

...I think you missed the point.

The OP was asking how a doodad on the end of a stick could pull a huge tank, I was giving other examples of things that "seem silly" based on a first glance, until you understand the kind of energy they possess/focus, and relating that back to the magna grapple. "How does...?" - A: The same way these other things do, with Massive Powah(tm)! ;)

[Melissia]

Then you should have simply explained the reason how it could do that.

[fade_74]

OH YEAH!! I just found my new death company dred! Now I just have to figure out how to make his beard into a magna grapple. Does dual flashing karate chop action count as two blood fists?

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n248/Fade_13/ChuckDoll.jpg

ok....if you put this head on a reaver could chuck norris the dred still pull it? or would the world just end?

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-1-6-CUSTOM-CHUCK-NORRIS-FIGURE-HEAD_W0QQitemZ300365666981QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item45ef305aa5

[RocketRollRebel]

It's almost as if this is a game compared to real life!!!!!!! lol

any debates regarding realism in 40k I will answer with "chainsaw swords". Thats all

p.s. Wins on the chuck Norris dread! I don't care if it isn't GW, its tourny legal!

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Adamsfamily36 as your example that a man can drag a jumbo jet, ive seen and agree it can happen. But only wth the brakes off and only forward. Ask that same man to drag that same jumbo sideways now and get back to us if he can do the same thing.
Now a dreadnought snagging a landraider, say in the side armour and dragging it, and im sure the Machine Spirit would have a problem with itself being dragged. So no its not realistic.

Dreadnoughts way several tons, how much does a Landraider or titan way? As for the idea you snag a foot of the titan causing it to unbalance it, right, the servo's alone are more powerful and larger than the dreadnought. Not feasible.
GW, seriously if there going to right rules for new codex's, make them playable, realistic, and yes even believable. I know its a game, blah blah blah, but commen sense here please.

So many thoughts so far how a dreadnought could do this, some good, some well...
Telescoping spikes into the ground (where not playing glitter boys here) well even if it did, say 4ft into the ground, its only durable as the composition of the ground, and i still would not believe that you could drag a baneblade waying what 20 times a dreads weight, across a battlefield or a titan waying say a thousand tons.
But this is just my thoughts on GW's lack of detail, can only wait to see if they fix or clarify some details in a upcoming and expected FAQ.

[DarkLink]

Dreadnoughts way several tons, how much does a Landraider or titan way? As for the idea you snag a foot of the titan causing it to unbalance it, right, the servo's alone are more powerful and larger than the dreadnought. Not feasible

Actually, even if you assume the Titan is stronger than the dreadnought (fair assumption), it is inaccurate to assume that the Titan would necessarily win a tug of war. A well braced dread could win against a titan on poor footing. The fact that the titan is stronger never actually plays into it.

In fact, technically you wouldn't even consider the relative strengths for a mathematical analysis. There would simply be a tension force in the grappling cable, and then friction and similar forces.The dreadnought and titan pulling on each other only increases the tension in the cable, but doesn't affect anything else.

[BuFFo]

Ok, concerning the new BA dreadnought weapon the Magna Grapple.

In the rules section and write up of the weapon it says as long as you equal too, or over the AV value of the highest armour value you can drag the said vehicle 2d6 inches towards your Dreadnought.

Now my quest ion is how does a dreadnought that ways several tons (as described in C: SM) drag say a Land Raider? For that matter it doesnt clealy describe the limit of the Magna Grapple and its towing limits.
Could a dreadnought armed with a Grapple drag a Landraider, or how about a Baneblade or even yes by the undefined rules a Titan?

The ruling is any vehicle can be dragged if you roll 8+d6 equalling or higher the highest AV value. So on a 6 (8+6=14) you could drag a titan 2d6 inches. Yes a titan waying atleast a thousand tons (maybe exagerating maybe) to your dreadnought.
Thats like saying you, yes me, you or that guy/girl next to you could drag say a Skyscraper with steal cable. Impossible i know.
But GW in there infinite ability to think way way way outside the box of plausible rules have not taken into the account of plausible, just what would make a great addition to the BA armoury.

40K and Apocalypse are two separate games.

The Magna Grapple was created with 40k in mind, not Apocalypse.

[Denzark]

Oh gods not this again. Apoc rulebook P17: The missions included in the 40K rulebook are perfect for2-player games under 3000 points. For larger games we have developed a new mission to use when fighting apocalypse battles.

So clearly apoc is a non-standard 40K MISSION, and thus the same game. The extra and differing rules are scenario special rules used only in that mission.

[BuFFo]

Oh gods not this again. Apoc rulebook P17: The missions included in the 40K rulebook are perfect for2-player games under 3000 points. For larger games we have developed a new mission to use when fighting apocalypse battles.

So clearly apoc is a non-standard 40K MISSION, and thus the same game. The extra and differing rules are scenario special rules used only in that mission.

40k is a BASE game. 40K comes with a few expansions that must be agreed upon by both players to use, which include, but not limited to;

Cities of Death
Apocalypse
Planet Strike
Battle Missions
Imperial Armor

Each expansion has it's OWN rules, and these expansions are NOT balanced unless thought is put into them BEFORE the game by both parties, so that the game runs smoothly.

When a codex is written, a codex is ONLY balanced/written with the base 40k game in mind.

Simple fact that you can't drive around in Super Heavies or Flyers or Gargantuan Monsters in the base 40k shows the games are separate.

Heck, in the 40k main rule book, you are told what you need to play the game, and none of the expansions are ever mentioned anywhere in the book at all.

So no, the Magna Grapple is perfectly fine in 40k, but if you don't want to have it pull Super Heavies, you need to come to an agreement with your opponent before an Apocalypse game.

But hey, whatever, think what you will. Just putting this out there to make the game run smoothly for people who understand the difference :rolleyes:

[Denzark]

Apoc is not a separate game - the book states you need a copy of the main rule book to play. Therefore it is not a self contained game.

[Image]

Now a dreadnought snagging a landraider, say in the side armour and dragging it, and im sure the Machine Spirit would have a problem with itself being dragged. So no its not realistic.



I wanted to point out this statement because it's pretty inconsistent. No, nothing the game has in it is realistic. Again, if you want to realism, you should probably forget the fact that Mephiston can punch through a tank's rear armour and make it EXPLODE. Realistic? Hardly. But that's the point.

Do I have any issue assuming that a Dreadnought is strong enough to pull a land raider? No. Or that perhaps it can pull a titan off-balance? No. Do I have issues with a bunch of Terminators tearing a Titan apart with their chain-saw fists? Well, yeah, but not because it's unrealistic.

This game is, as far as I can tell, meant to be cinematic. The fact that it's so enjoyable is because of the lack of realism.

[addamsfamily36]

Firstyl HIGH FIVE to "Image" ! :D

secondly in response to


Adamsfamily36 as your example that a man can drag a jumbo jet, ive seen and agree it can happen. But only wth the brakes off and only forward. Ask that same man to drag that same jumbo sideways now and get back to us if he can do the same thing.
Now a dreadnought snagging a landraider, say in the side armour and dragging it, and im sure the Machine Spirit would have a problem with itself being dragged. So no its not realistic.

I was only stating that by using forces and weight to your advantage you can pull thigns of a much greater weight.

so firing the grapple at the front end of the tank, the dread could in theory shift the direction of the tank and then pull it towards him. plus the grapple could be ridiculously powerful. I mean hydraulics are a real mechanical creation that Lift/push/pull incredible weights.

as for the titan, whats to say the grapple doesn't discharge some sort of EMP or (insert similar thing), that prevents the titan from pulling back.

again all just theories lol :D im a huge fan of the unrealistic side of 40k as we all should be, i jsut wanted to fight my corner.

[BuFFo]

I love these kind of threads...

Applying real life logic to a fantasy game... Check! :D

Applying real life logic between two separate games within a fantasy game... Double Check! :D

Before the game starts, agree with your opponent that the planet has an AV value of 10, so the Magna Grapple can pull the planet around lol, and use it like a wrecking ball!

[DarkLink]

as for the titan, whats to say the grapple doesn't discharge some sort of EMP or (insert similar thing), that prevents the titan from pulling back.


As I said, it doesn't matter if the titan is "pulling back". In fact, the titan pulling back would help the dread drag the titan (or get dragged).

Who gets dragged has nothing to do with who's doing the pulling. It has exclusively to do with who is better braced. If the Dread is better braced than the titan, the titan will be pulled to the dread. If the titan is better braced (which it will be due to its extra weight, all else considered equal), then the dread will be pulled towards the dread.

Want proof? Find a friend who's way bigger and stronger than you. Get a rope or something. Then both of you pull on each other while standing on equal ground. You'll probably get pulled to them, because they're bigger. However, next brace yourself against a fence or something. Then pull on your friend. They will come to you if you are strong enough to drag them. If they also pull, then they will be pulled to you even easier than if only you were doing the pulling, so long as your grip on the rope doesn't slip.

[DarkLink]

I love these kind of threads...

Applying real life logic to a fantasy game... Check! :D

Applying real life logic between two separate games within a fantasy game... Double Check! :D

Before the game starts, agree with your opponent that the planet has an AV value of 10, so the Magna Grapple can pull the planet around lol, and use it like a wrecking ball!

It's even better when some of the people ignore real life phsysics (:p). Then, they're comparing a fantasy game to imagined real life logic, lol.

[addamsfamily36]

Ok yeh i agree with that, but in that case a really tall titan which is to heavy cause they definetly are, would perhaps fall/be pull off balance by a low (in comparison) centre of gravity dread.

im 6 foot 4 and i assure you i stumble and trip jsut as easy if not more so than shorter/smaller people.

[Tynskel]

As I said, it doesn't matter if the titan is "pulling back". In fact, the titan pulling back would help the dread drag the titan (or get dragged).

Who gets dragged has nothing to do with who's doing the pulling. It has exclusively to do with who is better braced. If the Dread is better braced than the titan, the titan will be pulled to the dread. If the titan is better braced (which it will be due to its extra weight, all else considered equal), then the dread will be pulled towards the dread.

Want proof? Find a friend who's way bigger and stronger than you. Get a rope or something. Then both of you pull on each other while standing on equal ground. You'll probably get pulled to them, because they're bigger. However, next brace yourself against a fence or something. Then pull on your friend. They will come to you if you are strong enough to drag them. If they also pull, then they will be pulled to you even easier than if only you were doing the pulling, so long as your grip on the rope doesn't slip.

Draw a Free Body Diagram!!

[Unlighted]

I'm probably exposing myself to be riddled by flaming posts, but here I go. :D

Magna Grapple is like the vehicle version of Lash of Submission. Nasty when used on you, but they are part of the game. Lash works on almost any non-vehicle unit while Magna Grapple has to get a 6 to affect the AV 14 tanks and super-heavies. I don't really like anyone controlling any of my units, but at least Magna Grapple has some limits to it.

They'll eventually put out a FAQ to cover the Magna Grapple, but until then enjoy tap dancing Titans! :eek:

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Ok i agree after thought on your assesments of physics and realistic mass.
Buffo, if you want to start trouble on this post in your usual way find some other place to ok.
40k, planetstrike, spearhead, cities of death and apocolypse are all part of the 40k game, the same game end of story unless you can show me proof that they are seperate games that GW have made.

I know relism does not play a big part in the 40k universe, well i know a uber guy with psyker powers can put his fist through adamantium plates and destroy a LR, but yes by the GW ruling you can snag and drag a titan. But it is so stupid to think that it reall could.

How far is the limit of GW's ability to make total crap rulings and then need a FAQ to fix a codex.
By there ruling you could drag a Emporor titan then, something that in a 40k game you would use a garbage bin for its foor width. Its stupidly unrealistic to think, by there very own wording that could happen to drag that titan to you.

I know that in its description it does not define any limit, i just think i would allow it in my games, call it childish, selfish i dont care, its a rediculous rule until they fix it.

[DarkLink]

Draw a Free Body Diagram!!

Here you go

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=460&d=1270880961

All the variables would be known except tension, though we have to estimate.

g=mass*gravity
f= (friction coefficient Cf)*g
Ry= unknown
T=unknown

We can solve for the tension that would either tip the dreadnought or cause it's feet to slide out.

Sum forces in the x and y directions, and sum moments about the center of gravity CG. Let's assume that Y~3 meters and X ~1 meter. We can also assume that theta=zero, as the dreadnought could just fire the grappler horizontally.

Sum of forces in the Y direction leads to Ry=g (if theta=0).
Sum of forces in the X leads to T=f (once again, if theta=0).
Sum of moments leads to g=T*Y/X=3*T

Since T is the unknown variable, we can solve for what value of T the dreadnought will either tip or slip (no rhyme intended.

If T > f, then the dreadnought will slip out.

If T > g/3, then the dreadnought will tip over.

Now, f=Cf*g, meaning that f is some fraction of G. Depending on the surface on which the dreadnought is standing, Cf will change. If Cf is equal to 1/3, then the dread will slide and tip over at the same time. If Cf is greater than 1/3, it will tip over first, and if Cf is less than 1/3 it will slide first.

Now, the friction coefficient of the metal contacting other materials tends to be higher than 1/3, though it can be lower. We'll assume that it is higher, meaning that the Dread will tip over before it slides out.

Thus, T > g/3.

g can be estimated only very roughly. I'll say the mass of a dreadnought is approximately 5,000 kilos. 5,000*9.8 gives us a g of roughly 50,000.



Thus, if T > 17,000 Newtons, then the Dreadnought will tip over.


If the Dreadnought had some form of bracing, then there might be additional forces preventing the dreadnought from tipping or sliding out. I didn't include any in this set of assumptions.



Just in case you were curious.

[Uncle Nutsy]

In the rules section and write up of the weapon it says as long as you equal too, or over the AV value of the highest armour value you can drag the said vehicle 2d6 inches towards your Dreadnought.

Now my quest ion is how does a dreadnought that ways several tons (as described in C: SM) drag say a Land Raider? For that matter it doesnt clealy describe the limit of the Magna Grapple and its towing limits.
Could a dreadnought armed with a Grapple drag a Landraider, or how about a Baneblade or even yes by the undefined rules a Titan?

Does the dreadnought have the same or higher AV value than a landraider? If it's less than 14, then no.


Now if you magnagrappled a titan, the crew would go 'oh that's cute' and stomp the dred into a pancake.

[RocketRollRebel]

I love these kind of threads...

Applying real life logic to a fantasy game... Check! :D

Applying real life logic between two separate games within a fantasy game... Double Check! :D

Before the game starts, agree with your opponent that the planet has an AV value of 10, so the Magna Grapple can pull the planet around lol, and use it like a wrecking ball!

chainsaw swords! chainsaw swords! chain saw swords!

@ Darklink- screw your math! "someone has to stand up to the experts!"

[Shavnir]

Now my quest ion is how does a dreadnought that ways several tons (as described in C: SM) drag say a Land Raider?

By rolling 8 + d6 and comparing it against the highest armor value. Really not a tricky question at all :p

[BuFFo]

chainsaw swords! chainsaw swords! chain saw swords!

@ Darklink- screw your math! "someone has to stand up to the experts!"

Your post made my day!! :D

Thank you very much! :D

LMAO!!!!!! :D

[addamsfamily36]

Darklink i put my hand out to you in respect of you knowledge of physics and providing ( you jsut got served) evidence at me lol.

but would you agree that its not impossible for the dread to do it, if we added in every variable we could think of such as, surface friction or as you yourself put support and bracing of the dread?

[DarkLink]

chainsaw swords! chainsaw swords! chain saw swords!

@ Darklink- screw your math! "someone has to stand up to the experts!"

Lol, hey, Tynskel asked for it. Literally:cool:.


Darklink i put my hand out to you in respect of you knowledge of physics and providing ( you jsut got served) evidence at me lol.

but would you agree that its not impossible for the dread to do it, if we added in every variable we could think of such as, surface friction or as you yourself put support and bracing of the dread?

Yeah, unless the titan is on an extremely slippery surface and/or the dreadnought doesn't have some sort of extra bracing, the dreadnought isn't going to pull the titan, the titan will pull the dreadnought.With bracing, it's theoretically possible for a dreadnought to pull a titan.

Incidentally, the FBD of the titan is basically identical to that of the dread, just with different masses and distances.

Also incidentally, the analysis consists of the basis of mathmatical engineering analysis. So now you know a little about what civil/mechanical engineers do for a living:D.

[Dingareth]

me is makeing a note to simply ban it from grappling superheavies.

Who died and made you a game designer at GW?

[RocketRollRebel]

Lol, hey, Tynskel asked for it. Literally:cool:.

haha yeah no worries, I'm just playin. I honestly didn't even read through it. I am fail with math.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Obviously Shavnir you didnt bother to read myinitial post on that i descrided just that, that you need a 6 to even glance a AV14 vehicle and drag say a LR.

Next time kep you oh so sharp whit from stupid comments.
Im no mathematical genius with an Engineering degree or three, but my original idea was what people thought of the rule, how it will lead to rules abuse and how people will allow this rule in there game, would you as a player allow this even for its stupidity in my opinion.
Or do people not care, especially Nidz and BA players.

[DarkLink]

haha yeah no worries, I'm just playin. I honestly didn't even read through it. I am fail with math.

Heh, as an engineering student, I can't help myself from thinking about things logically and precisely. Comes with the territory (most of the time).

[addamsfamily36]

lol

I'm a graphic design student so no in depth knowledge of engineering so yeh hats off to you my friend. :D

[Renegade]

Problem with that "tug o war" analogy, is that the "pulled" is not suppose to be expecting it and will be lacking surface tension as it will be moving. Think 5 year old lassoing a 6'6 beefy body builders leg, while said beefy is out on a jog. Tis funny till mr beef gets up and finds he is missing teef. :eek:
Or just some random standing somewhere. What is being pulled would not know about it till it is being pulled, or at least that is the idea I get from it.
As for abusiveness, well, their is pulling your own vehicles out the way of something that could be nasty next turn or to a better one this turn (unless there is something saying it can't be used on your own units)
Pulling squadrons could also be funny. Suddenly those Russ's find that they are just in the right place for "Hammer Time" or Dev shots, or how about some good ol' fashioned fast ramming action from a Baal.
best fun could probably be found in pulling Eldar and Tau out of position, or maybe an obelisk.
Doing horrible things to guard and orks by pulling the artillery pieces around.

Thats about all I can think of, but I am sure there's more.

[DarkLink]

Problem with that "tug o war" analogy, is that the "pulled" is not suppose to be expecting it and will be lacking surface tension as it will be moving.

Doesn't matter if either party is expecting it. Doesn't have any affect on the physics behind the problem. Though I made the static analysis mostly in jest, go back and look it over. The only thing the pulling does is change the magnitude of the tension in the cable. It has absolutely no other effect. It doesn't matter if the dread it pulling, or if the titan is pulling, or if both are pulling, or if one is pulling more than the other. It only affects the magnitude of the tension in the cable.

Now, separately, if you get in a tug of war you lean back and brace yourself to keep from falling over. The dread would do this, but the titan may not. However, this doesn't affect the tension in the cable. It just makes it less likely for the bracing party to tip over.




And btw, surface tension refers to a property of liquids :p.

[addamsfamily36]

yeh surface tension is liquid related, could have meant surface resistance?

[Allandaros]

DarkLink, hats off to you. That is the best use of a free-body diagram I can recall seeing, ever. Well played, sir! :D

[Shavnir]

Obviously Shavnir you didnt bother to read myinitial post on that i descrided just that, that you need a 6 to even glance a AV14 vehicle and drag say a LR.

Next time kep you oh so sharp whit from stupid comments.
Im no mathematical genius with an Engineering degree or three, but my original idea was what people thought of the rule, how it will lead to rules abuse and how people will allow this rule in there game, would you as a player allow this even for its stupidity in my opinion.
Or do people not care, especially Nidz and BA players.

My point was this : this isn't a rules issue. The rule (at least for GW standards) is quite clearly written what happens and when. If you're going to start changing the rules willy nilly for fluff reasons you're going to have a lot of tweaking before the game is "realistic" enough.

PS : Grabbin klaws immobolize titans half the time.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

So i guess you have no prolems with rules as written then, how many times have we seen GW make a rules change or know they could have made it better.

This is blatently a rule that just shos how stupid some of these people are, yes its a rule, ok i know that, and yes i know we must follow the rules. Or as GW have said rules are only guidelines.
So that said i think as a guideline its a stupid rule. Yes this is only my opinion, yes my opinions only matter to me, not you.
So i just say that it will be abused thats all.
I cannot see even written as a rule how a dreadnought could tow a titan across the battlefield. I dont care for maths, physics, and a guy dragging a jumbo down a runway.
Commen sense says its not going to happen, thats my arguement. If GW want to keep pulling out a rules creep and make every new codex better, tougher, more appealing then fine by me, i will just play with my Army and not play against rules lawyering people who exploit obvious diversions to a fun realistic game of strategy.
If 40k distracts from strategy much further, all we have left is power-gaming and my codex is better than yours philosophy.

[gcsmith]

So i guess you have no prolems with rules as written then, how many times have we seen GW make a rules change or know they could have made it better.

This is blatently a rule that just shos how stupid some of these people are, yes its a rule, ok i know that, and yes i know we must follow the rules. Or as GW have said rules are only guidelines.
So that said i think as a guideline its a stupid rule. Yes this is only my opinion, yes my opinions only matter to me, not you.
So i just say that it will be abused thats all.
I cannot see even written as a rule how a dreadnought could tow a titan across the battlefield. I dont care for maths, physics, and a guy dragging a jumbo down a runway.
Commen sense says its not going to happen, thats my arguement. If GW want to keep pulling out a rules creep and make every new codex better, tougher, more appealing then fine by me, i will just play with my Army and not play against rules lawyering people who exploit obvious diversions to a fun realistic game of strategy.
If 40k distracts from strategy much further, all we have left is power-gaming and my codex is better than yours philosophy.

Common sense doesn't make sense in phyisics, common sense says 2 atoms across the galaxy are un related, but quantum physics says that if you affect one you can affect the other as they are 'linked'

[Shavnir]

So i guess you have no prolems with rules as written then, how many times have we seen GW make a rules change or know they could have made it better.

This is blatently a rule that just shos how stupid some of these people are, yes its a rule, ok i know that, and yes i know we must follow the rules. Or as GW have said rules are only guidelines.
So that said i think as a guideline its a stupid rule. Yes this is only my opinion, yes my opinions only matter to me, not you.
So i just say that it will be abused thats all.
I cannot see even written as a rule how a dreadnought could tow a titan across the battlefield. I dont care for maths, physics, and a guy dragging a jumbo down a runway.
Commen sense says its not going to happen, thats my arguement. If GW want to keep pulling out a rules creep and make every new codex better, tougher, more appealing then fine by me, i will just play with my Army and not play against rules lawyering people who exploit obvious diversions to a fun realistic game of strategy.
If 40k distracts from strategy much further, all we have left is power-gaming and my codex is better than yours philosophy.

Common sense would say if there's nothing wrong mechanically with the rule then you don't need to post about it in a rules forum :p

Go back to general 40k discussion and rant there.

EDIT : Ha ha ha holy crap 40k is realistic now? And magna-grapples are reflective of codex creep? Maybe a creep in the number of marginally useful too-expensive upgrades.

[DarkLink]

DarkLink, hats off to you. That is the best use of a free-body diagram I can recall seeing, ever. Well played, sir! :D

Glad to be of service:D


So i guess you have no prolems with rules as written then, how many times have we seen GW make a rules change or know they could have made it better.

Changed when they release a new codex.

Look, if you don't like it, houserule it. But that requires opponet permission, and can turn into a slippery slope.

Read this article; http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Scrub

Don't be a scrub. It's no fun for anyone.



This is blatently a rule that just shos how stupid some of these people are, yes its a rule, ok i know that, and yes i know we must follow the rules. Or as GW have said rules are only guidelines.
So that said i think as a guideline its a stupid rule. Yes this is only my opinion, yes my opinions only matter to me, not you.

Apparently your opinion does matter, because everyone who disagrees with you is stupid. I think that was the word you used.

Seriously. Chill out. It's a frikin game.