Smallhammer

[Mr Mystery]

Morning all.

Just a quick post before work begins...

Was reading my Dark Eldar Codex on the lavvy last night, and I was surprised that Inucbi come in a minimum unit size of 3.

And it got me thinking....if the points limit was say, 700 (arbitrary, eh?), and were restricted to minimum unit sizes (plus associated upgrades), what would your army look like?

Right. Off you go.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

And now we know what MrMystery thinks about when taking a crap :p

[Kaptain Badrukk]

For a good while my local was obsessed with "no time for peace" which was a WD game where you played with 500pts, 5 units, max 100pts each. It was a lot of fun.
In answer to mystery's question.
As an Ork player it'd probs be 3 Trukk-boyz mobs, couple of lootas mobs, and a warboss. Maybe some individual warbuggies.

[Kirsten]

I think it is a good way to play now and again, mix it up a bit. I'd probably go for a small spec ops tau force, some pathfinders, breachers, stealth suits, a couple of crisis suits.

[Mr Mystery]

I think I might do an actual Smallhammer army or two. I'm normally into big collections, so this could prove an interesting aside.

New tactical obstacles as well. After all, in such small points Incubi can be horrific (AP2, decent number of attacks), but with so few I'd want to be very careful as to when I committed them to a punch up - perhaps more 'stay on the Venom doing laps until the last turn, allowing me to snatch victory'.

[Kirsten]

it does pose a nice way to collect a small force of something different

[Erik Setzer]

With Orks, it'd be a bunch of small units that aren't really equipped to do much, and then maybe some small specially equipped units that have a shot at doing some damage. Not sure how effective it'd be.

Imperial Guard would be kind of amusing. Their "minimum" squad size is just a standard squad size, so they could equip themselves fully... and have a pretty good number of models to boot!

[Cactus]

Because of the "These Codexes suck" post on the BoLS main page, I was thinking about something similar with Dark Eldar.

I've never wanted to play DE until I read all of the comments on how nobody should be able to win with that codex but I thought lots of minimum sized Kalabite units in Venoms would be gross. Everything would be minimum sized and everything would be geared for killing troops or machine.

Archon - Venom - splinter canon
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Scourages - Solarite - Haywire blasters
Venom - splinter canon
Venom - splinter canon
Ravager - Dark Lance x 3
Ravager - Dark Lance x 3
Ravager - Disintegrator Cannon x 3

[Arkhan Land]

i like this hammermunda

[Mr Mystery]

With Orks, it'd be a bunch of small units that aren't really equipped to do much, and then maybe some small specially equipped units that have a shot at doing some damage. Not sure how effective it'd be.

Imperial Guard would be kind of amusing. Their "minimum" squad size is just a standard squad size, so they could equip themselves fully... and have a pretty good number of models to boot!

Ah....but then Orks might have an easier time, as the unit they're seeking to take out are also all smol. I know I'm a minority on this one, but Choppa boyz still scare me. It's the bucket of attacks they can throw around, even when there's just ten of the little green blighters. Shootas aren't far behind either, and as ever arguably scarier through the sheer number of shots they get at 18" range.

But hey, this is part of the thought exercise.

When you're really strapped for points, you're less likely to see the big scaries on the field (Landraiders I'd suspect not, possibly even up gunned Predators). Removing them from the equation shakes it all up.

I encourage everyone to give it a bash. Break out your codex, and come up with a 700 point Smolhammer force.

The only additional restriction is units cannot exceed their minimum size, and are therefore subject to any equipment restrictions that might bring (Tactical squads, from rusty memory would therefore lack Heavy Weapons)

[Charon]

Because of the "These Codexes suck" post on the BoLS main page, I was thinking about something similar with Dark Eldar.

I've never wanted to play DE until I read all of the comments on how nobody should be able to win with that codex but I thought lots of minimum sized Kalabite units in Venoms would be gross. Everything would be minimum sized and everything would be geared for killing troops or machine.

Archon - Venom - splinter canon
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Kalabites - Sybarite - Haywire - Venom with splinter cannons
4 Scourages - Solarite - Haywire blasters
Venom - splinter canon
Venom - splinter canon
Ravager - Dark Lance x 3
Ravager - Dark Lance x 3
Ravager - Disintegrator Cannon x 3

This is basically your average DE army. Details vary but this is beeing played a lot. You could tweak that even more by substituting the Archon with a Lhamaean, getting rid of Sybarites and Solarite (6" Emp is wasted if you are that close you are pretty much dead) and hand out blasters to 1 Kabalite instead.
Haywire Scourges are debatable but not wasted. We could also think about adding a Dark Artisan Formation (with WWP) for a little bit more durability and melee punch.
And thats about it. You just created the hardest list this codex is capable of.
This is basically the DE equivalent to Scatterbike Spam and multiple Wraithknights or 600 points free SM Vehicles (which is terrible for that list as is any army with multiple vehicles). You created the cheesiest cheese list DE can muster.
Yes, this can work if you do not allow your opponent to also play his most maxed out list and convince him to play a rather medicore toned down list.

Just to give you an perspective: in one round of shooting if everything is perfectly in range (and without cover) you kill about 21 Tactical marines or a single Wraithknight.

[Cactus]

This is basically your average DE army. Details vary but this is beeing played a lot. You could tweak that even more by substituting the Archon with a Lhamaean, getting rid of Sybarites and Solarite (6" Emp is wasted if you are that close you are pretty much dead) and hand out blasters to 1 Kabalite instead.
Haywire Scourges are debatable but not wasted. We could also think about adding a Dark Artisan Formation (with WWP) for a little bit more durability and melee punch.
And thats about it. You just created the hardest list this codex is capable of.
This is basically the DE equivalent to Scatterbike Spam and multiple Wraithknights or 600 points free SM Vehicles (which is terrible for that list as is any army with multiple vehicles). You created the cheesiest cheese list DE can muster.
Yes, this can work if you do not allow your opponent to also play his most maxed out list and convince him to play a rather medicore toned down list.

Just to give you an perspective: in one round of shooting if everything is perfectly in range (and without cover) you kill about 21 Tactical marines or a single Wraithknight.

Like I said, I'm not a DE player, but this just seemed like a good list on paper and utilized MSU.

Most of the Marines, Eldar, Tau or other "OP tourney lists" are all the same too. Bike-star, Cent-star, Wraith-spam, Flying Hive-rants, etc... Except Marines, each codex only seems to field one optimized tournament list too.

[Charon]

Like I said, I'm not a DE player, but this just seemed like a good list on paper and utilized MSU.

IT is good. Like I said it is for sure one of the post powerful lists the codex is capable of.


Most of the Marines, Eldar, Tau or other "OP tourney lists" are all the same too. Bike-star, Cent-star, Wraith-spam, Flying Hive-rants, etc... Except Marines, each codex only seems to field one optimized tournament list too.

With the difference that any list you mentioned here wipes the floor with "the most powerful DE list". The problem here is not some tourney mumbojumbo. The issue is that even this extremely maxed out cheesy cheese DE list you created even struggles with non-tourney, non-maxed out average joe Eldar, Space Marine or Tau armies.

You basically have to say to your opponent "Ok I play the hardest list possible with my codex and please do not use scatterbikes, Wraithknights, Warp Spiders, more than 3 vehicles, Seer conclave, D-weapons or any aspect formation so we can have a roughly balanced game."
This is how good "the best DE list possible" actually is compared to (for example) eldar.

Or just to compare to get the theme for nearly every single unit:
5x DE Trueborn, 4x S8 AP2 short ranged weapon, plasma grenades, 5+ armor -> 115 points
5x CWE Firedragons, 5x S8 AP1 short ranged weapon, melta bombs, 3+ armor, battletrance, +1 to vehicle damage, exarch upgrade (reroll hit/wound/AP, +1HP), option for BS5 -> 120 points

Every eldar unit is basically faster, more durable, does more damage and is either equally costed or even cheaper. No matter how good your list is, even if CWE would just try to copy&paste it for their units, they would end up getting just more stuff that does more damage and can take more hits.

[Cactus]

Every eldar unit is basically faster, more durable, does more damage and is either equally costed or even cheaper. No matter how good your list is, even if CWE would just try to copy&paste it for their units, they would end up getting just more stuff that does more damage and can take more hits.

All true.

[Captain Bubonicus]

And it got me thinking....if the points limit was say, 700 (arbitrary, eh?), and were restricted to minimum unit sizes (plus associated upgrades), what would your army look like?

Kinda like the old 40K in 40 minutes format, eh?

With 700 points, I could get 3 min-size squads of Plague Marines in Transports and an HQ. I guess that would have to do!

[-Tom-]

I think I might do an actual Smallhammer army or two. I'm normally into big collections, so this could prove an interesting aside.

It could also double up as an Inquisimunda force (expanded Necromunda ruleset to include Inquisition cells, AdMech exploration parties, Eldar/DE corsairs, Ork freebootas, etc etc - Googling Inquisimunda would link to the full stuff about it). Then you can also run small skirmish games that way, and get XP / buy more stuff, in a small campaign.

[Mr Mystery]

I guess :)

Currently away from my Codex collection, so can't go sniffing around at potential forces, but come the new year I may start a tale of small gamers type thing.

[Lurker]

OK, so here's my uneducated assemblage ala 6th ed. (I don't have 7th yet. I know, I'm slacking)

Comm. Sqd. - 270pts
Captain w/Power sword
Standard, Champion and Medic
Vets add Storm Shield

2 tac Sqds. - 95/90pts
Veteran Sgts.
1 with a Plasma gun, the other with a Melta

1 Assault Sqd. - 95pts
Veteran Sgt.
Straight out of the book

1 Dev Sqd. - 150pts
Veteran Sgt.
Lascannon
Plasma cannon
Hvy. Flamer
Miss. Launcher w/Flakk missiles

For a total of 700 points and 26 dudes. That could be a fun little group to fight with.

[Mr Mystery]

Mmmm! Thread-o-mancy!

Yes, it's me again. And I'm not entirely convinced this equine is deceased, so I intend to flagellate it a little longer (no...I said flagellate. That's a completely different word. Bad reader. BAD)

And why? Deathwatch Overkill of course. The WD rules have inspired me to waffle on about Smolhammer, simply because the two sides form 600 armies, if you take each of them as a single formation.

But how can other forces get in on this? Get your brain squigs on ladz, and let's see what we can come up with.