Decent of Angels and dedicated transports

[Duke]

Does Decent of Angels work when the squad comes in a Transport i.e. a Drop pod.

The RAS has "Decent of Angels," in their profile, so they don't lose it when the drop the packs. IF that is the case and they take a Drop pod will they then be able to use DOA?

"A BloodAngels unit with this special rule can re-roll failed reserve rolls if arriving by Deep Strike. Also, due to the precision oftheir decent, it scatters D6" less"

it says nothing of transports. The fluff could be argued against it... But as we all know fluff isn't a basis for judging RAW.
Thanks for the help all.

Duke

[sorienor]

The unit isn't deepstriking, the land raider/drop pod is.. and the vehicle does not have the DoA rule. So it scatters the full 2d6.

However the other part of DoA, the re-roll reserves, still applies because the unit is what's rolled for.

[Loken]

Pg. 62, DoA is specifically for modls equipped with "jump packs".

Alec

[DarkLink]

Right, DoA only works for models with jump packs deepstriking on their own.

[Duke]

I agree with the conclusion, but only because the pod/ landraider is what is deepstriking. The second point (statement about jumpacks) is only in the fluff portion of the rule, and from experice we can't rule based on the fluff section, right?

[Angelus Mortifer]

DoA in both it's parts (1D6 scatter, and a reserve re-roll) is purely, and very clearly specified for Jump Packs only. No transports will benefit from either aspect, and units that discard their jump packs lose the benefits too.

[Paul]

DoA in both it's parts (1D6 scatter, and a reserve re-roll) is purely, and very clearly specified for Jump Packs only. No transports will benefit from either aspect, and units that discard their jump packs lose the benefits too.

Can I glue a Jump Pack to a drop pod? lol

[addamsfamily36]

this is quite an interesting debate which drew me in and i had to comment. i agree that if put into a transport i.e a drop pod then decent of angels is void because the pod doesnt have that rule, however duke does make a point about the jump packs. in the fluff it clearly says jump packs but the rules jsut say deep striking, and yes i know that the transport wouldnt take the DOA rule, but dukes point that it doenst actually say via jump pck is valid.

At the end of the day arriving by drop pod brigns the protecition from landing on dangerous terrain etc, whereas the DOA ruel enables 1 d6 less scatter, it is the reserve roll that is interesting, seeing as its a dedicated transport which is placed into reserve with it you could argue both ways, but as the rules are there is no clear answer. *drop pod assualt* is the name given to drop pod reserves, yet it aso states that units that deep strike in this manner ..etc etc, implies that the unit is deep striking which if you then go to decent of angels ..it says somethign along lines of units that deepstrike get these bonuses blah blah blah.

its an argument which is definetly a play as agreed by both players rule or roll of as both entires sort of overlap.

i know i might get a sea of answers back to this post, so im sorry now if anyone is irritated by my post, but this is an interesting point and i would liek to see what others think.

[lobster-overlord]

To those that still may be confused by who can have the rule or not....

Units that specify the rule in their listing have it. Units that do not have the rule in their listing can get it by purchasing a Jump Pack if their options allow for it. A until that has it, but takes off the jump packs, still has the rule, and does not lose the rule, merely by taking off the pack, as it does not expicitly stat such (most cases like this would state something like "so and so unit no longer benefits from the Descent of Angels rule if you chose to field them without their Jump Packs").

The rule itself states

"A Blood Angels unit with this special rule can ...." (pg 23) It does not state "A Blood Angels unit with Jump Packs...."

The Jump Pack entry states

"In addition, a Blood Anges model with a jump pack has the Descent of Angels Special Rule" (pg 63)\

All Blood Angels with Jump Packs have Descent of Angels, but not all Blood Angels with Descent of Angles have Jump Packs (once kitted out).

So even if you didn't have a unit of Assault Troops in a Drop Pod, if you held them in reserve, you could re-roll that as well, to have them walk on the table edge...

(this also goes to my Lemartes/Death Company thread.... if Lem is with a unit of DC without the jump packs, can they still get the descent of angles reserve reroll since he has his jump pack and this rule, but the unit itself wouldn't as they don't have jump packs...\)

[Lerra]

Looking at the actual rules and not the fluff, it seems pretty clear to me that DoA does still benefit the squad when you are rolling for reserves. It doesn't matter if you lost the jump packs.

It seems like DoA would not benefit you when rolling for scatter, though. Both the squad and the drop pod are considered to be deep striking from a rules perspective, but when you roll scatter, you are doing it for the drop pod model which does not have DoA.

[addamsfamily36]

Lobster overlord and lerra thank you for putting what i was trying to say into real words lol, ( i was tiered and couldn't figure out how to get my point across without rambling on and complicating the issue) but you guys have summed it up nicely.

One thing im unsure about lobster overlord, are you saying that units can walk on and re-roll their reserve because i wouldn't agree with that as it says only models who deep strike can use DOA, but i might just be miss reading your post so apologies if thats the case.

[lobster-overlord]

You are correct. It does say "if arriving from Deep Strike" so my thought on having them walk on would be incorrect. But the application is still valid if in reserve and in a vehicle arriving from Deep Strike.

John M>

[Eusebius Rex]

Really it is kinda' crazy that this DoA/ Landraiders question even exists.

Can regular C:SM Terminators confer Deep Strike to a C:SM Land Raider? No.

Can a SM Scout unit give a Transport Scout or Infiltrate? No. They can make it eligible to outflank, but that is specifically outlined in the main rulebook.

So why would anyone think that a Land Raider full of RAS would be able to use the passenger's special rule just because the LR has the Deep Strike rule all of a sudden?

[Brother_Artimese]

Actually the scout ability is transferred onto the transporting vehicle.

IE tau Pathfinders.

[karandras]

Here goes another unwinnable debate in regards to a GW codex. While they did do a better job with BA than Tyranids, there are two glaring rules questions that are vague enough to immediately warrant debate between the camps of permissive gamers and conservative gamers - Descent of Angels and Magna-Grapple!

The argument can go in circles and always boils down to who is trying to exploit the rules to gain an advantage.

My view is that Descent of Angels (DOA) while listed under units' special rules does not apply to units not equipped with jump packs. All one has to do is look to the Jump Pack equipment entry on page 62 that very clearly reads:

"...a Blood Angels model with a jump pack has the Descent of Angels special rule (see page 23)."

This is not a fluff entry as some have claimed in this thread. This section includes the rules for equipment to include Camo Cloaks, Storm Shields, etc... and Jump Packs. It explains how they work in the game terms not fluff.

When you refer to the rule itself on page 23, the very first sentence reads: "Inclined to mastery of the heavens by temprament and lineage, the Blood Angels long ago refined the art of airborne assault via jump pack."

Now one could argue that this passage is a fluff description of the rule, but when combined with the jump pack equipment entry that is not fluff, they would clearly be attempting to omit and ignore both the opening sentence of DOA AND the non-fluff eqiupment entry rules for the jump pack on page 62 in order to exploit the second part of the DOA rule. That, in my humble opinion is rules lawyering and not in the spirit of the game or codex. Just my $0.02.

I would further assert that this view is correct based on the fact that both Vanguard and Death Company do not have the DOA special rule listed in their unit entry. However, both units have the discretionary ability to purchase jump packs as an upgrade. By referring to the jump pack entry, we see that should they purchase jump packs they would inherit DOA due to being Blood Angels models. The flip side of this is that Assault Squads have DOA in their unit entry because they come standard equipped with jump packs. If you give up the jump packs, you give up DOA but gain the benefit of 35 free points towards a transport.

[DarkLink]

Actually the scout ability is transferred onto the transporting vehicle.

IE tau Pathfinders.

But deepstrike isn't conferred onto a vehicle just because the passengers can deepstrike. The only reason why scout is transferred is because the scout rule explicitly allows it.

However, when a unit in a transport deepstrikes, the vehicle deepstrikes. Not the unit. Yes, the unit counts as deepstriking, but the deepstrike is done with the vehicle's rules, not the passengers. Thus, if a vehicle doesn't have DoA, it cannot use DoA, regardless of who is embarked.

Unless you can find somewhere that states that DoA transfers to the unit's transport, that is.

Edit:

What's the magna grapper rule issue? I hope you're not talking about dragging a titan, because currently the rules very clearly allow that.

[Melissia]

The RAS has "Decent of Angels," in their profile, so they don't lose it when the drop the packs. IF that is the case(emphasis mine, of course)

It isn't. If I'm not mistaken, on the rules, Descent of Angels is given by having Jump Packs. Therefor if they lose their Jump Packs they no longer have Descent of Angels.

[hisdudeness]

DoA may be given by jump packs, but if the unit has the rule in its entry having a jump pack or not should not matter. I do not see relentless in the terminator entry even though wargear is what gives them the USR. I always thought wargear given abilities were not included in the entry.

ADD:
Looking at C:BA, the first part of DoA rules is in italics and thought that ment it was fluff.

[lobster-overlord]

To follow with what he just said, if they didn't have it in their entry, they'd still get it WHEN and only WHEN they had the jump packs. By losing the Jump packs, they'd lose the ability if it was NOT already listed in their entry.

That's the key here. It's given to them, irregardless of packs or not, but all other units ONLY get it when you purchase the jump packs.

John M.

[karandras]

To follow with what he just said, if they didn't have it in their entry, they'd still get it WHEN and only WHEN they had the jump packs. By losing the Jump packs, they'd lose the ability if it was NOT already listed in their entry.

That's the key here. It's given to them, irregardless of packs or not, but all other units ONLY get it when you purchase the jump packs.



Lobster-Overlord, this is flawed logic.

The codex is clear that the jump packs are what bestows the rule.

It is only listed in unit entries that come standard with jump packs BECAUSE they come standard with jump packs!!! That is pretty obvious. If you lose the packs, you lose the ability.

[lobster-overlord]

That is pretty obvious. If you lose the packs, you lose the ability.

Actually, why then, when other units in other codexes lose wargear/take other options, does it explicitly say "loses such and such rule"? That being the case, then this book would say "if you take off the packs, they no longer have the rule"

The problem is that it is not "obvious." I completely understand the argument, and see how it might be intended that way in some realm, but they need to be explicit and say "they lose the rule if they lose the packs" otherwise, you will have people going RAW on you and say "it doesn't say that they lose the rule, thus they don't lose the rule" which I am inclined to agree with in this instance. Also, it doesn't say that ONLY units with jump packs have the rule, just that units that have the jump pack automatically get the rule.

[hisdudeness]

I also agree that it is not obvious. To me it is obvious that the italic paragraph is descriptive fluff as most paragraphs like that are.

Lobster-overlord is correct, normally we are told a unit loses a special rule is done when the wargear is removed. And as I said earlier I cannot recall any instance when special rules that are given by wargear is included in the entry.

[Tynskel]

I also agree that it is not obvious. To me it is obvious that the italic paragraph is descriptive fluff as most paragraphs like that are.

Lobster-overlord is correct, normally we are told a unit loses a special rule is done when the wargear is removed. And as I said earlier I cannot recall any instance when special rules that are given by wargear is included in the entry.

Correct, you technically do not lose the special rule when you remove the jump packs.


However, if you place the unit into a Transport, and the Transport deep strikes, the whole group does not benefit from DoA, because the Special Rule DoA specifically states that 'Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules.' p.23 Blood Angels Codex- DoA, after the little picture, before The Red Thirst.

When a transport Deep Strikes, the unit inside is along for the ride- p. 94 and 95 of main rulebook.

The only instance where a unit that has DoA, and does not have Deep Strike, and can still benefit from DoA is in Planet Strike-- and that is specifically if the unit with DoA is not inside a transport. p. 11 of Planet Strike.

[Lerra]

Tynskel, I agree on most points. Assault marines still have the DoA rule even if they have no jumppacks. But, they still scatter 2d6 inches when their transport deepstrikes for the reasons you mentioned above.

DoA grants them +1 on reserve rolls if the unit is arriving via deep strike, though. I don't see why they wouldn't benefit from this aspect of the rule if they were arriving via drop pod.

[hisdudeness]

Completely agree with tynskel and Lerra. That is my understanding of the rules.

Except for the +1 part, it can be argued that the unit is not arriving by deep strike but the transport is. Both parts of the DoA rule are keyed on the unit deep striking. I see it as an all or nothing situation. It's late, I will re-read the rule and see if I have it correct from memory.

[hisdudeness]

I stand by my last post. Both the re-roll and reduced scatter are based on the unit arriving by Deep Strike. So it is an all or nothing rule. And it is a re-roll not a +1 to reserve, missed that when I read the post.

The squad in the transport is not arriving by Deep Strike, the transport is.

[Duke]

After reading all the arguments I would judge that:

- a unit arrivng via deepstrike which is embarked in a transport does not get to use he benefits of DoA even if it has the special rule "decent of angels." simply because the rule is not conferrd to the transport and the transport is the "unit" that is arriving via deepstrike

- in that situation you don't get to use either of the benefits of doa, same reasoning

- rmoving jump packs on a ras does not make them Los doa, but at that point the rule is essentially uselss anyhow.

Hanks for he discussion guys, feel free to continue but IMHO th answer has been provided

duke

[Lerra]

The squad in the transport is not arriving by Deep Strike, the transport is.

I believe the Daemon Hunter FAQ states that squads in a drop pod count as deep striking (they can be shot at by mystics).

[DarkLink]

I believe the Daemon Hunter FAQ states that squads in a drop pod count as deep striking (they can be shot at by mystics).

Yeah, they count as deepstriking, but they arrive via the vehicle's deepstrike. Otherwise a unit within a drop pod would also require the deepstrike rule in order to actually use a drop pod.


The more examples that come up, the more and more I'm convinced that the only possible way to remain fully consistant within the rules is that DoA cannot have any effect on the scatter of the vehicle. If we are to consider that it does have an effect, then it has some implications that are inconsistant with numerous other cases of embarked units deepstriking.

[Lerra]

Even if they are arriving via the vehicle's deepstrike, they are still arriving via deepstrike. Wouldn't the reserves part of the DoA rule still function?

I agree that DoA doesn't affect the scatter at all.

[karandras]

Agreed. Same conclusion, just slightly different means of arriving there.

A unit that gets rid of the jump packs in order to deep strike in a drop pod, land raider, or even stormraven would not benefit from DoA. Even if they technically retain the rule, they cannot benefit from either part of it when not deep striking via jump pack because the transport does not have DoA and the transport is what is conducting the deep strike action. This would be the same even for a unit with jump packs embarked on a stormraven for the same reasons.

[hisdudeness]

I am not seeing where the Daemon Hunter FAQ says the transported unit counts as Deep Striking. All I see is that mystics can shoot the transported unit because the ‘free shots’ are done after the unit disembarks.

After rereading the Mystic rule, I can see that it might imply the transported unit is Deep Striking, but some might say implying is not the same as stating. It could be the transported unit can be shot because of the timing of the ability (before the unit moves and drop pods say the unit disembarks as soon as it lands). It can also be argued that it is a FAQ for a different codex and/or a specific circumstance.

[Duke]

Does anyone have the grey knight FAQ? I can't see it on this comp.

[hisdudeness]

I have it up now. What do you need?

Here are the 2 questions answered in the FAQ that deal with Mystics.

Q. Can you clarify how Mystics work?
A. Mystics allow you to take a free shot at each
summoned pack of Daemons or unit that Deep
Strikes within 4D6” of the Inquisitor.

Q. Do Inquisitorial Mystics allow “free shots” at
units arriving by Drop Pod?
A. Yes. The shooting is resolved after the Drop
Pod lands and the passengers have disembarked.
Either the Drop Pod or the disembarked unit may
be the targeted, but not both.

[Duke]

Agreed that this grey knights ruling is not Enough to overturn my original assessment. Because of two things

1. The rule allows the unit to be shot at ecause of when it happens.

2. Even if it did allow for enough evidence to overturn the orginal assessment there is a very strog presidence to not apply specific code. Faq's to other codcies...

Duke

[Melissia]

To follow with what he just said, if they didn't have it in their entry, they'd still get it WHEN and only WHEN they had the jump packs. By losing the Jump packs, they'd lose the ability if it was NOT already listed in their entry.

That's the key here. It's given to them, irregardless of packs or not, but all other units ONLY get it when you purchase the jump packs.

John M.

I disagree. Think about it this way: oftentimes, stat bonuses are already included in a character's statline, such as strength bonuses, extra attacks, etc. Similarly, this rule is included because the unit has it by default-- as it has Blood Angels Jump Packs. But take away the Jump Packs, and it'd not have the rule.

[hisdudeness]

That crossed my mind, but that is a statline change not addition of special rules. I have looked through 2 codices and have not found an instance where a special rule granted by wargear is included in the entry.

Even Jump Packs do not add Deep Strike to the special rules of a unit, so why would BA jump packs add DoA to the entry and not deep strike?

[synack]

I'd rule they still get the +1 but no dice on scatter.

The unit, which is coming via a dedicated transport, can use DoA to get the +1. However, the unit isn't deep striking, the transport is, so it can't use the DoA rule to reduce scatter.

It's like having a scouting unit in a transport, they can still outflank.

[Tynskel]

That crossed my mind, but that is a statline change not addition of special rules. I have looked through 2 codices and have not found an instance where a special rule granted by wargear is included in the entry.

Even Jump Packs do not add Deep Strike to the special rules of a unit, so why would BA jump packs add DoA to the entry and not deep strike?

You are right, DoA didn't need to be added to a unit's profile, just like Deep Strike does not need to be added to the unit profile when they buy a Jump Pack (or come with one)-- it is inherent within their rule set.

By current precedents set by other codexes and the 40k Rulebook, units don't lose their special rules, unless the book actually states so.

The DoA rule, however, does state that units that don't have DoA and are deep striking, use the normal rules. (p. 23 C:BA). When you go through the deep strike/ reserve sections (p. 94, 95 Main Rulebook), it is clear that only one unit is doing the deep striking- the transport.

No one has been able to cite a rule, that hasn't been countered, that supports the argument that Assault Squads that remove their jump packs can deep strike and use DoA.

Except for the rule that I have cited: Planet Strike- p. 11. These are specialty rules for a supplement and different style of game play. Planet Strike is not often used in a tournament setting- so RAW is not always used with Planet Strike--- for example, I won't be using DoA with non-jump pack assault marines from Blood Angels Codex-- besides, why would I buy them a transport and not use it?

[Tynskel]

I'd rule they still get the +1 but no dice on scatter.

The unit, which is coming via a dedicated transport, can use DoA to get the +1. However, the unit isn't deep striking, the transport is, so it can't use the DoA rule to reduce scatter.

It's like having a scouting unit in a transport, they can still outflank.

Why do you think the transport gets +1 to reserves--- especially since DoA does NOT give +1 to reserves.

AND that the 'other unit' uses the 'Normal Rules'. (p. 23 C:BA)

Please cite SOMETHING that supports your decision!

Also, scouting units in a dedicated transport can outflank because the 40k rulebook EXPLICITLY states this (p. 76).

[Eusebius Rex]

Ok, so at the heart of this arguement - what is really being decided is whether a unit's special rules can be applied to its dedicated transports. Because DoA by itself doesn't get Deep Strike - I think we can agree upon that universally - and RAS loses Deep Strike when it loses its jump packs. So the question is when it is able to Deep Strike again via landraider (or any other vehicle that can deep strike), can it apply its special rule of DoA to the vehicle?

Now, we've got the Infiltrate and Scout examples down - they bring full or partial USR application to dedicated trans and this is specifically defined by the rule book.

But what other USRs are applied to dedicated transports without specific referrence by the rulebook or a codex that states it applies to the transport?

[DarkLink]

I'd rule they still get the +1 but no dice on scatter.


Heh, no pun intended?

[Lord Inquisitor]

I think this should answer the question. If you look under Descent of Angels, after the picture, there is one last sentence. It states that "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules." Here it specifically states that anything that doesn't have the special rule Deep Strikes normally. Thus since a Drop Pod does not have the special rule it Deep Strikes normally.
Also to answer the question about the re-roll. In the Rulebook it states that roll to bring in both a unit and its dedicated transport at the same time. I would look at this like how Fearless works now. It does not confer it to something that doesn't have it and the unit looses the rule.

[Tynskel]

Ok, so at the heart of this arguement - what is really being decided is whether a unit's special rules can be applied to its dedicated transports. Because DoA by itself doesn't get Deep Strike - I think we can agree upon that universally - and RAS loses Deep Strike when it loses its jump packs. So the question is when it is able to Deep Strike again via landraider (or any other vehicle that can deep strike), can it apply its special rule of DoA to the vehicle?

Now, we've got the Infiltrate and Scout examples down - they bring full or partial USR application to dedicated trans and this is specifically defined by the rule book.

But what other USRs are applied to dedicated transports without specific referrence by the rulebook or a codex that states it applies to the transport?

Well, we have entered the realm of redonkulous.

"So the question is when it is able to Deep Strike again via landraider (or any other vehicle that can deep strike), can it apply its special rule of DoA to the vehicle?"

You guys need to read the Codex--- p. 23 "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules."

This CLEARLY states that the Land Raider(s)/Stormraven/Drop Pod/Land Speeder(s) use the normal rules--- they do not have DoA. A dedicated transport is a separate unit (p. 64 Main Rulebook). These units do not have DoA in their profile.

Reserves and Deep Strike (p. 94 and 95) clearly state that the Transport is the unit that is in the act of 'Deep Strike'. Not the unit being transported. The unit embarked can only disembark, AFTER the Transport has deep strike successfully (p. 95).

DoA is NOT a USR--- Universal Special Rules are listed in the Main Rulebook. DoA is a Codex special rule, no other army has this special rule.

Scouts states only a unit with scouts embarked in a dedicated transport can grant the vehicle scouts (p.77, 94).
Infiltrate states that dedicated transports do not benefit from infiltrate- but do gain outflank. (p76, 94).

BOTH of these cases, the rulebook EXPLICITLY states what the units do and do not benefit from the special rules.

The Blood Angels codex, like the Main Rulebook, EXPLICITLY states what units do and do not benefit from DoA.

no one, not one single person has ACTUALLY cited something that supports the case for DoA from a unit effecting a unit that does not have DoA.



This should not even be an argument-- there should be no forum question about this.


Please Please--- CITE SOMETHING if you have an argument to support DoA applying to Transports.

[Tynskel]

I think this should answer the question. If you look under Descent of Angels, after the picture, there is one last sentence. It states that "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules." Here it specifically states that anything that doesn't have the special rule Deep Strikes normally. Thus since a Drop Pod does not have the special rule it Deep Strikes normally.
Also to answer the question about the re-roll. In the Rulebook it states that roll to bring in both a unit and its dedicated transport at the same time. I would look at this like how Fearless works now. It does not confer it to something that doesn't have it and the unit looses the rule.

The DoA rule states that other units use the normal rules. p. 23

The re-roll for reserves is part of the DoA rule--- why would a unit without DoA benefit from ANY PART of the special rule, when it says they don't?

[Lerra]

There is precedent that GW considers models in drop pods to be entering play via deep strike.

From the Dark Angel FAQ:

"Q. Can troops deploying from a Dark Angels Drop Pod assault on the turn it lands? Unlike the Space Marines and Black Templars codexes, it does not state you cannot.

A. No the embarked troops can’t assault, as they have deployed by deep strike that turn and troops that deep strike can’t assault."

My logic is that DoA does not apply to the transport. However, when rolling for reserves, the transport and the unit are rolled for together. When you roll for the unit, the DoA rule does apply. There is precedent that a reserve die bonus to one unit in a pair benefits the pair. Ex: Tau have wargear (Positional Relay) where one unit enters play from reserves on a 2+. If you have a unit in a dedicated transport, you only need to give the 2+ to one or the other, and they will enter play together on a single roll of a 2+.

[Eusebius Rex]

Well, we have entered the realm of redonkulous.

"So the question is when it is able to Deep Strike again via landraider (or any other vehicle that can deep strike), can it apply its special rule of DoA to the vehicle?"

You guys need to read the Codex--- p. 23 "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules."

This CLEARLY states that the Land Raider(s)/Stormraven/Drop Pod/Land Speeder(s) use the normal rules--- they do not have DoA. A dedicated transport is a separate unit (p. 64 Main Rulebook). These units do not have DoA in their profile.

...

no one, not one single person has ACTUALLY cited something that supports the case for DoA from a unit effecting a unit that does not have DoA.

This should not even be an argument-- there should be no forum question about this.


Oh, you're preaching to the choir, brotha. My post was just more on the Socratic line of questioning - basically, why is anyone really thinking that DoA can just out of the blue be applied to a transport? I think I fumbled the post, honestly - too many beers...

The only examples of any passenger's special rule applying to a transport is done very specifically in the MRB or by Codex as far as I know.

And where would this line of reasoning end? If (and it doesn't) DoA from RAS applies to Land Raiders, then why can't IG Storm Troopers Deep Strike in thier Chimeras? They have the Deep Strike rule right in thier unit entry and can take chimeras as transports. But no one is trying to argue for that one cause it makes no sense - just like DoA applying to transports.

Codex Blood Angels--- p. 23 "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules."

I think I'll put this in my sig to really spam out the rule, cause I saw a referrence to "deep striking descent of angels Land Raiders" just today...

[Tynskel]

There is precedent that GW considers models in drop pods to be entering play via deep strike.

From the Dark Angel FAQ:

"Q. Can troops deploying from a Dark Angels Drop Pod assault on the turn it lands? Unlike the Space Marines and Black Templars codexes, it does not state you cannot.

A. No the embarked troops can’t assault, as they have deployed by deep strike that turn and troops that deep strike can’t assault."

My logic is that DoA does not apply to the transport. However, when rolling for reserves, the transport and the unit are rolled for together. When you roll for the unit, the DoA rule does apply. There is precedent that a reserve die bonus to one unit in a pair benefits the pair. Ex: Tau have wargear (Positional Relay) where one unit enters play from reserves on a 2+. If you have a unit in a dedicated transport, you only need to give the 2+ to one or the other, and they will enter play together on a single roll of a 2+.

You roll reserves as one group--- you are not trying to apply the 2+ to one or the other (p. 94).

Because you roll the reserves as one group, AND p. 23 of the Blood Angels Codex States: "Other units in the Blood Angels army that can arrive by Deep Strike do so using the normal rules.", you cannot choose to when to apply DoA. This grouping is not a one or the other-- they are the same-- and the Codex: BA explicitly states: Do Not Abuse DoA!