Stormraven with locator beacon?

[The Mystic]

Quick question really.

If you equip a Stormraven with a locater beacon and move flatout would a disembarking unit or Dread not scatter as with the "Skies of Blood" rule you deploy the unit "as if it were deepstriking"?

[DarkLink]

That's actually a really good question. I think it works. The models jumping out deploy as if deepstriking, and there's nothing to state or imply that a locator beacon wouldn't prevent them from scattering.

Additionally, Locator beacons always work on any squad within 6" of them, so long as the beacon started on the table.

So, as long as the Storm Raven's final position was within 6" of the point where the unit jumped out, it seems to me that they wouldn't scatter.

edit: an additional question I see becoming relevant very quickly; can a unit with heroic intervention assault after "deepstriking" out of the back of a Storm Raven?

[The Mystic]

That is a brilliant question.

It states in the Heroic intervention rule that they may if coming in from reserve via deepstrike can elect to perform it so unfortunately I would say that they can't.

[lobster-overlord]

Darklink, I would turn that around. The entry uses the past tense for having already done the Flat Out move, so I would apply it as so long as the unit lands within 6 inches of where the vehicle stopped, rather than the vehicle can stop no further than 6 inches from where the unit disembarks.

As to Heroic Intervention, I agree that it wouldn't work since it specifically states "from Reserve"

[Angelus Mortifer]

Firstly, I'm a BA player and have been for years, but even so....

I think the "intention" of having Locator Beacons on Stormravens isn't to benefit the Troops inside, but obviously to benefit additional DSing units that would follow.I'd find it a bit much to suggest that JP Troops disembarking via Skies would not scatter despite the term, "count as Deep Striking".

Stormraven boosts across the battlefield; pilot shouts, "we've reached the target, that patch of ground right there by that tree (pointing)". RAS Sgt, "Really? Are you sure? I'm not sure we can land on it, despite it being the only tree for thousands of miles around. We might need some help here". Pilot, "...-sigh-... You really want me to turn the Beacon on again..?" Sgt, "Yes please" - - - beep - - - beep - - - beep - - - . Sgt, "Ohhhhh, THAT tree!"

It's another one of those intention versus interpretation things that just bugs me a bit :rolleyes: The counts as Deep Striking is for the purposes of scattering from a very fast moving vehicle, which is a logical idea as the speed itself would test the limits of ably competent jump troops. The inclusion of a Locator Beacon on that same vehicle is not going to defy the laws of gravity and velocity no matter how loudly it "pings away". Furthermore, they count as DSing for the purposes of Scatter, but they're not coming in from Reserve as they're already on the board, albeit in the SR.

For me personally that would be trying to garner a benefit that goes against the spirit of the game, but each to his own :)

[Gir]

They don't. Not because the rules say they don't, but because common sense does.

[Angelus Mortifer]

They don't. Not because the rules say they don't, but because common sense does.

^^This too^^

[DarkLink]

So I think the issue isn't whether the locator beacon assists the troops, but rather where the locator beacon counts as being positioned during the movement.

Now, the locator beacon only states that it must start on the table to assist a deepstriking unit that turn, and that the unit must be within 6" of the beacon during the deepstrike.

Since the "deepstrike" happens simultaneously with the skimmer move, it isn't clear at which point during the move the beacon is located.



I see three options:

1. Locator beacon counts as being at the starting position of the vehicle

2. Locator beacon counts as being at a point along the path of the vehicle (specifically the point where the squad disembarks)

3. Locator beacon counts as being at the ending position of the vehicle

Thoughts?





I didn't think that Heroic intervention would work, and was too lazy to look it up. Makes sense that it doesn't, though.



They don't. Not because the rules say they don't, but because common sense does.

I think common sense would dictate that the fancy sensors and beacons on a 'raven would allow the jump troops to jump out safely:p (not really, but this is just to illustrate the point).

That's the problem with any non-RAW interpretation. It's subjective. And in this case it seems fairly clear that locator beacons do work by RAW, though the exact details are iffy.

[Tynskel]

"before moving any unit, the player must roll a dice for each of his units in reserve... Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it... and so on until ALL ARRIVING units are ON the table. The player MAY THEN PROCEED to move his other units as normal." p. 94

you first deep strike, then move your Stormraven.

This is not a RAW problem interpretation. It is clearly written in the book.

opps... not quite fitting in with the conversation.

[ashnaile]

Yea were not talking about actually deepstriking ...., but skies of blood disembarkation.

RAW you can do it.

[Gir]

To look at it in a RAW way:

The rule says 'As if they where deep striking'. Which can easily be interprated as 'Use the rules for deep strike, without it counting as a deep strike". Basically, it's a shortcut for writing the codex, meaning the huge slabs of text don't need to be rewritten for a very similar rule (Think abstraction). But as the unit is not actually deepstriking, it can't benefit from the locatpr beacon.

[DarkLink]

To look at it in a RAW way:

The rule says 'As if they where deep striking'. Which can easily be interprated as 'Use the rules for deep strike, without it counting as a deep strike". Basically, it's a shortcut for writing the codex, meaning the huge slabs of text don't need to be rewritten for a very similar rule (Think abstraction). But as the unit is not actually deepstriking, it can't benefit from the locatpr beacon.

Right. Unfortunately GW doesn't do a good job of saying "use the deepstrike rules, but they don't actually count as deepstriking". Colloquially, it took them forever to clarify that Counter Attacking models weren't assaulting and thus didn't benifit from Furious Charge.

Regardless, I think this should go on the list of questions to get emailed to GW for clarification.

[Tynskel]

The same interpretation would state that 'Wings of Sanguinius' do not benefit from 'Decent of Angels'. That's dumb! A librarian that grows wings knows how to fly.

The Locator Beacon should work- especially since the Skies of Blood does mention Decent of Angels working...

You are paying points for the Locator Beacon-- But you do have to follow locater beacon rules: The Beacon must have started on the board that turn- so no coming in from reserves 24" and droppin' off mans.

I think an excellent combination of 'Skies of Blood' is to use Vanguard Vets 'Heroic Intervention'. They are the ones that could pull off that kind of maneuver- they can do it from a thunderhawk in high atmosphere! Instead of a HALO jump it would be a LALO Jump. Another good use would be to use Dante- they will not scatter!

[DarkLink]

The same interpretation would state that 'Wings of Sanguinius' do not benefit from 'Decent of Angels'. That's dumb! A librarian that grows wings knows how to fly.

The Locator Beacon should work- especially since the Skies of Blood does mention Decent of Angels working...

You are paying points for the Locator Beacon-- But you do have to follow locater beacon rules: The Beacon must have started on the board that turn- so no coming in from reserves 24" and droppin' off mans.

I think an excellent combination of 'Skies of Blood' is to use Vanguard Vets 'Heroic Intervention'. They are the ones that could pull off that kind of maneuver- they can do it from a thunderhawk in high atmosphere! Instead of a HALO jump it would be a LALO Jump. Another good use would be to use Dante- they will not scatter!

Alas, but Heroic Intervention doesn't work when using Skies of Blood. If it did, that would be kinda awesome, though.

[Francorum]

My turn to give my point of view about this Skies of Blood thing. When I first read the Stormraven entry and particulary the Skies of Blood one, I immediatly think about the Vanguard Veteans.
Then I check the wording of the two units :
- Heroic Intervention specifies : "If a jump pack equipped Vanguard Veteran squad arrives from deep strike,the player can elect for the squad to perform a Heroic Intervention"
- Skies of Blood states : "deploy the squad as if it were deepstriking onto that point"

So I see things working like that : your Vanguard Veteran are embarked into the Stormraven. It moves flat out and you decide to use Skies of Blood.
You make them deepstriking because, and it is crucial here, "as if deepstriking" is still deepstriking.
You have then a Vanguard Veteran unit equipped with jump pack arriving from deep strike, then eligible to make an Heroic Intervention.
Cherry on the cake : using a locator beacon and making them deepstriking less than 6" away from the Stormraven allows you to not scatter.

That just how I see things here. But we are arguing about english language and I am not the best judge of that since I am French.
But, for the record, I checked the french wordings of both entries in the BA codex and they are exactly the same.

[DarkLink]

My turn to give my point of view about this Skies of Blood thing. When I first read the Stormraven entry and particulary the Skies of Blood one, I immediatly think about the Vanguard Veteans.
Then I check the wording of the two units :
- Heroic Intervention specifies : "If a jump pack equipped Vanguard Veteran squad arrives from deep strike,the player can elect for the squad to perform a Heroic Intervention"
- Skies of Blood states : "deploy the squad as if it were deepstriking onto that point"

So I see things working like that : your Vanguard Veteran are embarked into the Stormraven. It moves flat out and you decide to use Skies of Blood.
You make them deepstriking because, and it is crucial here, "as if deepstriking" is still deepstriking.
You have then a Vanguard Veteran unit equipped with jump pack arriving from deep strike, then eligible to make an Heroic Intervention.
Cherry on the cake : using a locator beacon and making them deepstriking less than 6" away from the Stormraven allows you to not scatter.

That just how I see things here. But we are arguing about english language and I am not the best judge of that since I am French.
But, for the record, I checked the french wordings of both entries in the BA codex and they are exactly the same.

Reread the vanguard squad rules in the BA codex. They're slightly different from vanilla C:SM vanguard.

Specifically, BA vanguard may only use Heroic Intervention "when arriving from reserves via jump packs (quote not verbatim)." Thus, no combo allowed.

[Tynskel]

Reread the vanguard squad rules in the BA codex. They're slightly different from vanilla C:SM vanguard.

Specifically, BA vanguard may only use Heroic Intervention "when arriving from reserves via jump packs (quote not verbatim)." Thus, no combo allowed.

This is why I am really pleased with this codex, Matt Ward did a really good job of keeping the 'cheese' down. The rules are quite explicit!

[Francorum]

Specifically, BA vanguard may only use Heroic Intervention "when arriving from reserves via jump packs (quote not verbatim)." Thus, no combo allowed.
You are absolutely right.
But I am afraid it only apply in english then. I triple checked the french wording for both entries, BA and C:SM codexes, and they are exactly the same. Meaning the combo is working with french codex.

I gotta ask GW France with that one. But it is not the first time they translated a rule wrong...

[DarkLink]

You are absolutely right.
But I am afraid it only apply in english then. I triple checked the french wording for both entries, BA and C:SM codexes, and they are exactly the same. Meaning the combo is working with french codex.

I gotta ask GW France with that one. But it is not the first time they translated a rule wrong...

Yeah, I heard the Spanish translation was horrible.