Path to Glory

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Damn this looks fun!
That is all.
Anyone else downloaded it?

[Mr Mystery]

Erm....sort of.

I've got the subscription, but there seems to have been a whoopsy with their file. I need the mobi version, so I can unzip via one app, and then open in my Kindle app.

However, yesterday's download only contained two ePub files, which I can't open on my iPad.

Currently discussing the issue with Black Library via email.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Bummer. It's pretty damn cool.
Seriously thinking of suggesting it to my gaming group.

[Mr Mystery]

I gots it working now. Buggered if I know what the problem was though.

Right, off into town to sort out Council Tax, and I'll be giving this a good read in the meantime.

[Path Walker]

Yep, few of us have got it in my local group, got a little old school thrill rolling up a random warband (without the insanity of the Realms of Chaos books, which were cool but some of the stuff generated was maddeningly specific!)

[Erik Setzer]

Hopefully they'll release it later at a reasonable price like maybe $35 per game (less would be better, but eh, we'll call overpriced-but-not-insane "reasonable" given who we're dealing with). I have no intention of dropping $150 for their "subs" and getting a bunch of stories I likely won't read (which could be thrown into a print collection for $8 per game). I'm also not keen on it looking like they might charge $5 for each piece. The concept could be fun, would like to check it out, but not at the current asking price.

[Mr Mystery]

Blood hell Erik.

Have you ever seen something new and just thought 'well that's pretty cool'

Criticism is all and fine and well, but you give the impression you only ever look for something you don't like about a new thing.

[Erik Setzer]

Blood hell Erik.

Have you ever seen something new and just thought 'well that's pretty cool'

Criticism is all and fine and well, but you give the impression you only ever look for something you don't like about a new thing.

Betrayal at Calth was cool. Even the PITA missile launcher guy is neat. Hitting all my nostalgia points, and a reasonable entry level price for the collection of stuff included. Don't really have an opinion on the Tau stuff, never been a fan of Gundam 40K (but hey, if there's rules for Cadians, that's nice). End Times stuff was awesome. Nagash was bloody expensive, but a nice model. Morghasts were awesome. Doing a massive ET game, that was cool.

Path to Glory might well be cool, but it's hard to know because the only way to see it right now is pay more than what's reasonable to ask. Sure, some folks will pay. But I can hope that it'll be released later. If I thought it wasn't possibly cool, then why would I care if it's released later? See, I'm trying to show optimism about something, but tempering it with realism. Maybe didn't word it best (especially as I can't convey body language or tone via text), but eh, I wasn't calling it a stupid concept. (I think I've pointed out before how PtG would be a good concept to convert for AoS. But then, so did some other folks, so it's hardly a unique idea of my own. It might even be said discussions online that led to it being done.)

I *do* see all the sides of something when I think about it. Maybe that's some quirk in my brain or mental illness, but I don't just see something and think "that's great!" or "that's awful!", I think about what's good and what's bad and what the conclusion from all of that is. I don't feel like a person is being honest with himself/herself, or others, when they don't look to see the good *and* bad in something and judge it based on both. I know that such a concept is apparently taboo among modern circles where you're either for or against something 100%, but I hate such extremes (which is why I've come to loathe politics and everything about them).

[Path Walker]

Yeah, £2.50 is so damn unreasonable, damn GW, screwing us again.

"I see people are talking about something they like, best post on the thread and **** all over it"

[The Girl]

Just a mention... is someone constantly annoying you, but not breaking the TOS? To add users to your ignore list:

Go to your User Settings and in the left Nav Panel under My Account, select [Edit Ignore List], type the username you wish to ignore in the Ignore List blank and click [Okay]

[Cutter]

...damn GW, screwing us again.

You love it.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Hopefully they'll release it later at a reasonable price like maybe $35 per game (less would be better, but eh, we'll call overpriced-but-not-insane "reasonable" given who we're dealing with). I have no intention of dropping $150 for their "subs" and getting a bunch of stories I likely won't read (which could be thrown into a print collection for $8 per game). I'm also not keen on it looking like they might charge $5 for each piece. The concept could be fun, would like to check it out, but not at the current asking price.

Eric, it's $6 AU. Per game. Which is what I bought it for. The rest of the subs are for OTHER things. The PTG stuff is fully stand-alone.

[Erik Setzer]

Eric, it's $6 AU. Per game. Which is what I bought it for. The rest of the subs are for OTHER things. The PTG stuff is fully stand-alone.

The listing showed 12 parts for each flavor. If those parts are, say, $2 each, then fair enough, that's just under $30, still a bit more than digital should be but not insane. If they're $5 each, then it's $60 for the whole bit, and that's just silly.

From the descriptions on BL's site:

AoS:
Day 1: Path to Glory
Day 5: Path to Glory, Part 3
Day 7: Path to Glory, Part 4
Day 9: Path to Glory, Part 5
Day 11: Path to Glory, Part 6
Day 13: Path to Glory, Part 7
Day 15: Path to Glory, Part 8
Day 17: Path to Glory, Part 9
Day 19: Path to Glory, Part 10
Day 21: Path to Glory, Part 11
Day 23: Path to Glory, Part 12
(Guessing part 2 might be the painting guide?)

40K:
Day 2: Warhammer 40,000: Path to Glory
Day 6: Path to Glory, Part 3
Day 8: Path to Glory, Part 4
Day 10: Path to Glory, Part 5
Day 12: Path to Glory, Part 6
Day 14: Path to Glory, Part 7
Day 16: Path to Glory, Part 8
Day 18: Path to Glory, Part 9
Day 20: Path to Glory, Part 10
Day 22: Path to Glory, Part 11
Day 24: Path to Glory, Part 12
(Ditto on "part 2" being a painting guide apparently).

So it really depends on what the other parts are, and how much they cost.

Besides, if it's a good supplement, it'd be better to have it all in one collected "eBook", right?

(I also tend to avoid getting DLC subscriptions because I don't trust the value off the bat, either, so this isn't just a GW thing. I absolutely love Fallout 4 and haven't gotten the "season pass" yet because I'm not sure if it'll be worth it, and that's only $30 as opposed to over $70 or combined over $140.)

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Agree on subs man, ALWAYS know what you're paying for.
The extra bits may/may not be worth it, but the mechanics of the game, exp/campaign system, and everything we lse you NEED to plsy is in part 1.
So the rest you can cherry pick.
EDIT: didn't bother with the Monolith Battleplan, but debating the 'Blasted Wastes' rules as they seem pretty solid for AOS abd PTG.

[Mr Mystery]

So far, Path to Glory consists of the first part (essential), and then today's one (less essential, as it's optional rules for fighting in different realms).

The core bit, the one you really need, is £2.49.

Or free, if you know someone who can email their downloaded zip file to you.

[Erik Setzer]

I found a PDF, need to review it... if it looks interesting enough, I'll buy it. Might turn out that the parts that are actually rules (or at least useful rules) aren't even $30.

Really, I'm a bit surprised the local manager hasn't jumped on it. I get that the rules are bought online and that likely means he'll miss out on those sales, but if he did a campaign with it, he could probably move a good bit of Chaos stuff, especially the older stock. Probably easier than trying to push the last few boxes of BaC (good value, but still harder to get people to part with $150 at this time of year than $20-$30).

[Mr Mystery]

Manager procures copy. Print and laminate. Promote.

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah, one copy for the store he might be able to get away with.

Heck, he seems to want to do "real 30K" now for that campaign, and to have the rules he wants to borrow a guy's red army books for everyone to use. If that works, I can't see why a store copy of PtG wouldn't. Old manager used to have a story copy of Triumph & Treachery (though, IIRC, I think people paid into a pool for that) so people could play it if they didn't have the supplement (only a couple of us bought it, which is a shame, because it's pretty fun... come to think of it, might have to have a go at converting it for AoS, but now I'm getting off on a tangent).

[Mr Mystery]

He should give his Head Office a bell, see if they can furnish a copy to him.

Only 'oddity' compared to Path to Chaos? Each unit you roll up or select (option is there for both methods) matches a single boxed set of the models. Might need an amendment early on to limit henchmen rolls if going for escalation type stuff :)

Oh go on then, can't resist an explanation!

Generally, you get to choose your champion. Each option listed is a currently available model. Every warband is either Mark of Undivided, or God Specific, so no cherry picking Khorne for HTH, Tzeentch for casting.

Depending on what model you choose to be your Champion, you'll get a different number of rolls on the warband chart. Gone for a bloke on a Manticore as your Champion? You get 4 rolls. Champion on Foot? 6. Lord on Daemonic Mount? 5.

You can then choose to roll on the following tables.

Retinue, Hero Follower, Monstrous Follower, Brayherd Follower, Warherd Follower.

Standard rules are either everyone rolls randomly on tables of their choosing, or everyone selects from their existing collection (both have merits to the approach, depending on who is playing, and the nefarious purpose of the campaign)

If you're doing it in a shop, no reason you couldn't say 'no more than one roll on either Hero or Monstrous follower', if only to prevent Victory To The Deepest Pockets.

[Erik Setzer]

While it seems like that'd be convenient for players (no "partial boxes" involved), I suspect it was thrown in to sell more boxes. But when you have like 12 Warriors or 20 Marauders in a box, that could get a bit out of hand quickly. Might have to be tweaked a bit. Seems like with that kind of thing in place, you could go from a small band of brigands to a Grand Army of Chaos in a relatively short time.

[Mr Mystery]

You posted whilst I was editing :p

It's well worth the pretty smol entry price just for the core rules. Then tweak away.

No Erik. That's twerking. You stop that this instant, young man.

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah, tweaking might be necessary. That's kind of a big "entry" level, with 5+ units/characters. But hey, tweaking can happen.

Also, I'm not about to twerk... I got it banned at the local GW. (I don't remember the full context any more, but it was really, really funny and totally worth it at the time.)

[Erik Setzer]

Finally had a good look over it... I think for starting players, or even just bringing players into starting a Chaos army, a few tweaks would be better, mainly skipping out on monsters to start with (including characters on Manticores) and cutting unit sizes in half. You'd be able to get two entries out of most boxes, though Chaos Knights might present an issue. Maybe a little editing of the tables.

I think it'd also be an interesting twist to have Fate Points be the currency you use to buy new units or unit upgrades, instead of them being automatic. Then you have to make a choice of whether you want to improve your warband or get closer to the winning goal. Then change the goal to 20 FP, with a caviat that you can't win a campaign with a sub-.500 record, so if you're at 20 FP from hoarding them but have, say, an 8-10 record, you'd still need a couple of extra wins to win the grand prize. But maybe the gods are still kind enough to advance you to a Daemon Prince for sticking it out... so you save up 20 FP to become a Daemon Prince and then just need to hit over .500 (get a winning record) to win. Someone might early in the campaign decide to "drop behind" in FP in order to build up their warband to have a better chance of getting wins and accumulating a winning record in their quest for 20 FP (if you win a game, your average FP should be 2, so with this method, you could increase/improve your warband *and* get one point closer to the goal). Just some strategy added to the campaign, and a better representation of the gods wanting an actual winning champion rather than just someone who could find more games than anyone else and lost 10 games in a row (somehow) and, in the process, manages to win.

Oh yeah, and nix the (sort-of) auto-win for becoming a Daemon Prince. Otherwise you run a good likelihood that in the first days of the campaign, someone rolls good, becomes a Daemon Prince and then just has to win a game and they take home the prize.

[Erik Setzer]

Hopefully they'll release it later at a reasonable price like maybe $35 per game

Hey, what do you know, they did it! $33 per game, has all the gaming stuff (including paint guides) bundled.

And I did indeed grab it. (Well, *them.* I have plenty of 40K Chaos, and it might give me more of a reason to use them.) Only complaint is that it's ePub format, so I have to find a converter to make them .mobi for Kindle. (Also, the only ePub reader I have on my PC makes them look awful, so I need a better reader. If anyone's got suggestions, that'd be great.)

[draco84oz]

And I did indeed grab it. (Well, *them.* I have plenty of 40K Chaos, and it might give me more of a reason to use them.) Only complaint is that it's ePub format, so I have to find a converter to make them .mobi for Kindle. (Also, the only ePub reader I have on my PC makes them look awful, so I need a better reader. If anyone's got suggestions, that'd be great.)

Chrome has an app called "Readium" that reads epub3 pretty well. Might be advisable to go with that to begin with.

I also downloaded the rules because of interest - I was a big fan of the PtG rules that they put in the 270's of White Dwarf (back during 6th ed, IIRC), so I wanted to see how they compared. And...wellllll....its different. Better? Don't really know.

First off, the warbands in the AoS version are much bigger. You get a similar amount of rolls as you would in the WD version, but you get more models overall - for example, in the WD version, rolling up Chaos Warriors would get you D3 warriors that you could then spend points on to purchse, but a roll up in AoS get you 10 of them straight up. It means that the AoS version is more of a small army rather than a warband in the Mordheim style.

Secondly, in the WD version, you can take casualties within your warband, but in the AoS version, you just replace them without penalty between games. This means that your force is constatly expanding, as opposed to the WD version where the growth is a bit slower as you have to replace casualties etc.

Finally, the path to Apotheosis (ie. Daemonhood) in the AoS version is much quicker. Whilst you could get to Daemonhood in the WD version in 4 games if you were lucky or spent the favor points, it only takes 1 game in the AoS version (that said, in both versions, its a 1/36 roll possibility). And on top of that, in AoS, once one of the campaign's champions gets to Daemonhood and they win a game, that's it - the campaign is over.

Personally, this last point is a real bone of contention for me - whilst having a winner for some campaigns is a good thing, for a warband-style game like Mordheim, Necromunda, GorkaMorka or even Blood Bowl, its the open-ended, drop-in/drop-out nature of the campaign that makes it attractive. Sure, newer players will get smashed by more experienced ones, but there are always boosts they get to try to get them up to speed quickly. And a lot of more experienced players will eventually tire of stomping all opposition and roll a new warband just for the fun of it. Plus on top of that, once you get your champion to Daemonhood, you only get to enjoy the power for one game before its all over!?

I can see both working - some prefer a larger style of game, plus I can see the other AoS factions eventually being added to this ruleset. But personally, the lower model count and more open-ended campaign rules of the WD version still make it for me. Plus, you can download the rules for free, and the scenarios (there are 5 plus a multi-player free for all) don't cost anything (as far as I can tell, the AoS scenarios have to be bought in addition to the main rules).

Plus, did you know they did a variant of the WD Path to Glory rules called "Quest for the Grail" that was based around Brettonnian warbands?

[Morgrim]

I presume the rules are very Chaos specific and don't really work for other armies? I'd like some sort of escalation league rules for my Seraphon.

[draco84oz]

I presume the rules are very Chaos specific and don't really work for other armies? I'd like some sort of escalation league rules for my Seraphon.

Most of the rules are chaos-specific, but only in name, really - things like Soulscream (-1 Bravery to all units within 8") could renamed to stuff like Horrendous Visage or Ethereal Aura and have no change in mechanics. The only real thing that may cause issues are the mutations, the snake eyes result that turns your champion into a Chaos Spawn, or the Apotheosis result, but those could also be redone with a bit of thought. As I mentioned above, it was redone for the Brettonnians, with the path to Daemonhood being the path to the Grail instead.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Bit of tweaking would work wonders.

No, that twerking. Knock it off.