What Age of Sigmar really needs is Warhammer Quest

[odinsgrandson]

Ok, so hear me out.

I love a good skirmish game, I love me some good minis, and I love a unique background.

But the setting for Age of Sigmar seems less than complete. This happens with a lot of miniatures games- we get so involved in the armies and troop movements that we don't get to see what life is like outside of the military (or whatever groups are doing the fighting).

And in some cases, we start to wonder if there even is life outside of the military.


I'm bringing this up because I feel that Age of Sigmar has this problem. I'm also one of those guys that is super excited about the possibilities in the specialist games division. And I just thought- what would happen if they DID release Warhammer Quest, but they didn't set it in the old setting?

We'd soon get a lot more detail and flesh on the new setting. We'd see how Serephon and Sigmarites interact with one another, we'd get some insights into the various cultures that have survived the rule of chaos. We even might get a glimpse into the daily life of those poor humans stranded on the mortal plains who are hoping to resist the rule of chaos.

We could have an adventuring party made up of some of these characters from different realms, and we can see a little of what motivates them.


There's a lot of potential to flesh out the setting into something that feels like an interesting, original setting. RPGs really do a lot to add detail to a setting (if you don't believe me, take a good look at the Iron Kingdoms).

It really could go a long ways towards making the setting more complete.

[Insert_nickname_here]

The other nice thing about WHQ is that the game can be played with a relatively small pool of models to lots and lots! From a painting point of view, it's nice to be able to dabble in a little bit of everything, it could easily be successful because it is relatively easy to get into, and I agree with you that AoS needs more normal people trying to live their life from day to day to flesh it out.

It seems like such an easy way to boost fantasy sales, I'm amazed they haven't done it already.

[odinsgrandson]

Well, I'm not at all surprised they haven't done it. AoS hasn't been out for all that long- and games like this can take quite a bit of time between idea and market. All together, there's not been enough time to get this out.

But it is a possibility. I wonder if any of the side games set in the old world are going to be re-set in the new plains.

[Insert_nickname_here]

Sorry, I was meaning more fantasy in general, when WFB was struggling with sales, it seemed like such an easy way for people to start small collections of models to use in a game which they could then build into an army as opposed to specifically AoS.

[Captain Bubonicus]

What it really needs is to be put out of its misery.

[Mr Mystery]

Background wise, AoS is still very much developing, so it's little surprise it doesn't have the depth Warhammer developed over 30ish years.

And I agree that Warhammer Quest could prove a new way to show off the realms, and importantly the mortal survivors.

So far we know about Stormcast Eternals, Bloodbound and Seraphon, on account they all have their Battletomes.

In the various books and stories, we're also seeing glimpses of order being reestablished, and we now know there are various and sundry survivors of the Age of Chaos, and not just in Azyr.

Give us that role play experience, and we'll get a better handle on what it must be like to have survived the Age of Chaos, and how the myriad societies, tribes, nations, groups etc are beginning to rebuild now Sigmat has lead the strike back against Chaos. Warhammer Quest can do that.

Let us actually explore the realms, and the ruins of the Age of Myth. Warhammer Quest and indeed Mordheim can do that.

Thinking further on this, I'm going to make a bold statement. Ready?

Warhammer The Game of Fantasy Battles was the least effective way to explore The Warhammer World.

Consider the background. Whilst the stories ultimately lead to battles you would want to recreate on the tabletop (and could fairly easily), it was the macro scale that appealed the most - the chance to read how Heroes got there, how the world they lived in shaped them. Gotrek and Felix did this best if you ask me. Quite possibly reading too much into it, Gotrek represented what you needed to become to secure victory. Felix represented the 'every man'. There wasn't much special about Felix. Human, bit of skill with a blade, and eternally in way, way over his head. It's those qualities that really made him the hero. Gotrek was nigh indestructible, and arguably God-Assisted through his axe.

Give us Warband AoS, where it's more about survival than an ultimate victory. Give us AoS Quest, so we can go exploring and plundering the ruins of the Age of Myth, whether for personal gain, or as agents of kingdoms and fiefdoms seeking lost relics to strengthen their position and cement the rebuilding efforts.

In short, we need the chance to become Mortals in the Age of Sigmar.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Ok. This calls for a crowd developed pen and paper rpg. Who's in?

[Mr Mystery]

I'm a base ideas man. Kind of like a manager, I have the idea then get other people to make it work :p

[odinsgrandson]

Background wise, AoS is still very much developing, so it's little surprise it doesn't have the depth Warhammer developed over 30ish years.

The way I see it, there are two extreme ways to look at it:

1- The writers are keeping a lot close to the chest, and have a lot more setting to reveal.
2- The writers are making it up as they go, and haven't made up the rest of the setting just yet.

The truth will be somewhere in between, of course (they'll have less solid ideas about the factions we haven't explored, and things are only set in stone once they're in print (and sometimes not then). Overall, I think it is a better idea to reveal more of the setting rather than keeping important things hidden.

WFB did have an advantage in this, if not necessarily a good one. Because it started out as pure Tolkien/D&D with Moorcock mixed in, we could always just use those sources to fill in details (I imagine Gotrek and Felix might as well be stopping by at the Prancing Pony in Bree).

The things that make the new setting interesting aren't really fleshed out yet, and I worry that future army books aren't going to do it justice.



Warhammer The Game of Fantasy Battles was the least effective way to explore The Warhammer World.


That's a radical notion, that rings true to me. In order to create a battle on the tabletop, you only need a small glimps into the setting.

But what sort of logistics does it take to mobilize an army? What sort of resources are we fighting over? And, if we're struggling to preserve or better the lives of mortals, how are they living, and what is the difference?

In a way, I imagine living as a mortal might be a lot like the characters of Kingdom Death: Monster. Your characters don't really know why they're here, or why they're suffering in this hellish place, struggling to find basic resources to survive. They have much to fear, and often insanity is their greatest defense.

But I really would love to see it from an RPG type perspective.

[Mr Mystery]

I think it's 'cards close to chest'

Going through the various novels and short stories and audiobooks etc, it seems clear to me at least that most of this has been well planned in advance, and there's little teasers here and there which have piqued my interest (other reader's experiences may vary).

For instance, there's a battle story in the Seraphon book, where they properly do over a Slaaneshi Daemon warband hunting for Slaanesh (Slaanesh is not dead, this much we now know). And it ends with a Slaaneshi Herald panicking about what the Slann is about to do to it.......

I think they just need to crack on and give us more side stories, preferably without the Stormcast Eternals. It's not that I don't like them (I actually think they're kind of cool), just that I want more Survivor Stories. Every survivor they've alluded to or shown off so far has been of interest to me. So gimme more! Quest etc is the perfect way to do this.

[Mr Mystery]

Oh, and if we're wishlisting?

To reflect the general feel of the Mortal Realms (there's surviviors, but nothing you could really call a civilisation) any Mordheim type game should have recruitment and equipment charts - kick it proper, proper oldschool.

I much prefer this to having complete say over who or what is recruited and what they're armed with. I find it more characterful, and a lot more challenging as a player as I need to work with what I've got.

In the same way as Path to Glory, you might spend your opening chest on modifying recruitment and equipment roles - but this will of course lead to a smaller warband - and so on and so forth. I'm right up for that!

[odinsgrandson]

I think it's 'cards close to chest'


That's a 'glass half full' way of looking at it.



For the Devil's Advocate- I remember some of the things Andy Chambers said about creating the fluff surrounding the Necrons, and tying them to the C'tan in the 3rd edition.

He said that Rick Priestly taught him that it is best not to tie off all of the loose ends in your fluff so that when you want to make up new things, there's room (the C'tan had been mentioned in previous fluff, and Chambers was excited to decide what they were and create Necron fluff surrounding them).

That tells me that:

1- GW's fluff writers had no plan when they introduced the mysteries regarding the Necrons in the 2nd ed days. They seemed super shallow back then, and they were.
2- GW's writers had a policy of intentionally leaving open mysteries, but don't plan ahead what to do with them.
3- GW's writers do sometimes revisit their shallow fluff and find ways within their setting to give them depth like they belong there.

*Now, this is all older information as neither Andy Chamber nor Rick Priestly work at Games Workshop these days.

Maybe their policy has changed but I can't help but look at the new fluff through this lens.

[Mr Mystery]

And that's fair, but of course not the same as making the whole thing up as you go :)

For my money, I reckon the Realmgate Wars will last a year or two, used as a way to establish the game system. Then as they resurrect the mortal armies we know from Warhammer there'll be a time jump background wise - Chaos driven off and 'more-or-less' under control, allowing nations to rebuild and civilisation to get going again

Done right, this will give us as players a choice of eras to play in. Including the Age of Chaos.