IP Hammer swings again

[ColCorbane]

Feck me, now that's some doggy IP Hammer swinging .... Since when can you claim copyright on futuristic scenery?

http://www.3t-studios.com/blog/?p=487

[SombreBrotherhood]

And how. Point #3 on that letter is high-larious. "ambiguous imagination" indeed.

[eldargal]

I wonder if part of the problem was that practically all their pictures, on what is a commercial website, contain GW figures? Most other sites I know which sell similar things don't put GW products in them for that reason.
Its unfortunate that copyright laws require companies to actively protect their IP to prevent them becoming public domain.:(

Point 3 really is awful.

[Lord Azaghul]

gotta agree with eldargal here, putting GW figs in their pics wasn't the best of ideas, not to mention the piece with an aquilla and the SM statue...
Lovely terrain though.

[ColCorbane]

I wonder if part of the problem was that practically all their pictures, on what is a commercial website, contain GW figures? Most other sites I know which sell similar things don't put GW products in them for that reason.
Its unfortunate that copyright laws require companies to actively protect their IP to prevent them becoming public domain.:(

Point 3 really is awful.

I'm starting to wonder if this is some sort of April fools joke, time will tell I suppose.

[gwensdad]

I'm gonna call a bad taste "April Fools" on this.

The products images are still on the site. The posting itself was done very late last night/early this morning. Also, for a letter dated yesterday to arrive the next day or effectively same day (looking at the time of the posting) isn't too likely.

Well, at least I'm hoping it's April Fools.

[eldargal]

I hope so, but if it not just poor taste but could end up attracting legal attention from GW. I'm sure any company would not look kindly on such a thing, when it is quite easy to read' Games Workshop' on the blanked out parts. I have trouble believing anyone would be that stupid. Actually, I don't. I just wish people weren't that stupid.


I'm gonna call a bad taste "April Fools" on this.

The products images are still on the site. The posting itself was done very late last night/early this morning. Also, for a letter dated yesterday to arrive the next day or effectively same day (looking at the time of the posting) isn't too likely.

Well, at least I'm hoping it's April Fools.

[MC Tic Tac]

gotta agree with eldargal here, putting GW figs in their pics wasn't the best of ideas, not to mention the piece with an aquilla and the SM statue...
Lovely terrain though.

If you think that is bad a friend of mine use to work for GW's Legal department and one thing he did was search E-bay everyday for items labeled with GW IP's and if they where not GW/Citadel items contact the seller or send in the Lawyer Space Marine Chapter....

[Bigred]

The vast majority of that stuff is generic sci-fi terrain.

I'm not a laywer (so don take this as legal advice), but the reshooting of all those pics without GW minis in them, and the removal of the pieces that include GW IP such as the Imperial Aquilla should keep them in the clear.

They also need to use only generic fantasy sci-fi terms when naming and describing their products.

[harrybuttwhisker]

whats funny is if people actually ignored the cease and desist orders, a lot of what GW tries to claim IP to falls flat on its face. So many of there symbols, names and prhases are stolen from otherr sources they have no legally upstanding claim on them.

For instance they could not stop you naming a product 'power armoured marine' or using the name 'boltgun' or 'railgun' etc as these are all generic sci-fi phrases from before the birth of GW.

Names such as 'saimhan' or 'abaddon' or 'ahriman' are actually sourced from ancient religions.

Symbols such as the 'aquila' has roots in rome and germany.

Phrases such as 'deus ex machina' are again simple latin phrases coined well before GW you just have to have to avoid strong visual imagery, also if its for parody you can copy there items directly.

Hope its an april fool though.

[Nabterayl]

Feck me, now that's some doggy IP Hammer swinging .... Since when can you claim copyright on futuristic scenery?

http://www.3t-studios.com/blog/?p=487
I don't know if this is an April Fool's joke, but to give a serious answer to your question:
If you draw, sculpt, or otherwise fix the design of some futuristic scenery other than in your head, you have copyrighted that scenery. No matter how generic it is, nobody is allowed to exactly copy your scenery in any form (they cannot sculpt what you have sculpted, they cannot draw what you have sculpted, they cannot sculpt what you have drawn, etc.). In addition, nobody is allowed to draw, sculpt, or otherwise create scenery that is based on your scenery. Of course, if your scenery is very generic, it will be very easy for somebody who did not exactly copy your scenery that his creation is not based on your scenery at all, but rather based on generic futuristic concepts.
As a corollary of #1, if GW sculpts a space marine, nobody is allowed to draw that space marine, or create a photograph that includes that space marine.
So let's say you sculpt a piece of futuristic scenery, and GW sculpts a space marine. You photograph the space marine standing on the scenery. GW photographs the space marine standing on the scenery. The following things are true:
You have violated GW's copyright by creating a photograph that includes their copyrighted space marine without their permission.
GW has violated your copyright by creating a photograph that includes your copyrighted scenery without your permission.
Because you have violated GW's copyright, GW is entitled to recover monetary damages from you and, in extreme cases, may be able to prevent you from using the photograph.
Because GW has violated your copyright, you are entitled to recover monetary damages from GW and, in extreme cases, may be able to prevent GW from using the photograph.
You own the copyright on every portion of the photograph you took except for the space marine.
GW owns the copyright on every portion of the photograph it took except for the scenery.
Those are the facts of the matter. Now, if GW were to write you a cease-and-desist letter based on the above scenario, all they would tell you is, "You have violated our copyright. We demand that you stop posting anything and everything that we own."

Now, that sentence is true. You have violated GW's copyright. But all you have to take down is the space marine. Everything else about the photograph - your scenery, any photoshopped background, the lighting, the angle, the focus, etc. - is not GW's. And if you read closely, you'll see GW is not claiming it owns the photograph.

In other words, in the above scenario, you could re-shoot your scenery without the space marine and you'd be fine. You could even take the existing photograph and photoshop out the space marine, and you'd be fine. It's all a matter of having clear in your head who owns what.

[scadugenga]

But in order for GW to actually be awarded damages, they have to prove that their business suffered as a result.

[The Librarian]

Its meaningless to blame GW. They are just protecting what is there's using the law. it is the IP and Copyright/Patent Laws that need to change.

I mean Apple can claim rights to gesture based UIs? COME ON! Patents and Copyright law is used to protect. If GW faced someone with the same pockets as they it would end up in one or both handing over a large fee and walking away. If GW doesn't defend their IP....even to the stupid they run the risk of loosing it.

Its nothing new. Happens in industry all the time.

[Kahoolin]

Its meaningless to blame GW. They are just protecting what is there's using the law. it is the IP and Copyright/Patent Laws that need to change.

I mean Apple can claim rights to gesture based UIs? COME ON! Patents and Copyright law is used to protect. If GW faced someone with the same pockets as they it would end up in one or both handing over a large fee and walking away. If GW doesn't defend their IP....even to the stupid they run the risk of loosing it.

Its nothing new. Happens in industry all the time.Yeah people really need to stop freaking out about it (I'm talking about this stuff in general, not this particular thing which may or may not be a joke).

The law may appear to violate common sense or whatever to those who don't know the full context, but that's just because law is not in any way designed to follow common sense. This is for a good reason: Common sense is subjective, influenced by fashion and contradictory, and none of those things are good for lawmaking.

The ironic thing is when you see people who would happily argue for RAW over RAI getting all riled up at GW for sending out cease and desist letters. They are just following RAW.

[eldargal]

Would any of us act differently? If you ran the risk of losing valuable IP that you have invested a great deal of time, money and effort into, would you fail to protect it and let it be made public domain? Of course not. GWs legal department may be a bit hamfisted and overbearing at times but they are only protecting what is theirs. The fact that GW IP drew on many different sources for its inspiration is entirely irrelevent.

As for Ahriman and Abbadon, GW is not copyrighting those names, they are copyrighting the iconic Chaos Space Marines named Ahriman and Abbadon. In the same way I could make a popular childrens characte named Mickey, but if he is a mouse then he infringed upon Disneys IP.

[gwensdad]

It was a prank. The company's latest post seems to indicate this:

http://www.3t-studios.com/blog/?p=499

[RogueGarou]

Part of the letter seemed a bit off from a professionally constructed document. The entirety of the demands from "GW" were not to rectify the copyright infringement but to immediately cease all business activities. That seems bit beyond the norm for a first notice to me. The part that seemed really off was the ending of the letter. "Yours faithfully" is more personable than the legal documents I have dealt with and the advising to "seek professional help" rather than to retain or seek legal council was strange. I had not heard of nor seen this company's terrain before but I would hope that this was a joke.

If it were a joke, it may still foreshadow some possible real notices from the GW in the future, though. The buildings look cool but the Ork skull motif I saw seemed very close to what GW has used for years. I saw previous posters mention iconography quite similar to Imperial Aquilas on some terrain. Personally, I would not want to include those kind of details to head off any possible issues in the future. Even if you were sued and won the lawsuit and the inevitable appeals, would your personal, financial, and commercial costs be worth going through the legal process when it could all be avoided by removing a couple of icons.

It the legal notice turned out to be true, it would remind me way too much of the crackdown Paramount made about 12 years ago on Star Trek web sites. At one point it seemed like the only Star Trek presence on the web was the official Star Trek site. Funny thing is, within a couple of years of that heavy-fisted crackdown, which included fan sites about the movies and series not just commercial enterprises, the Star Trek franchise died out and went off of television for the first time since 1987. Maybe a coincidence or it might be that some fans, when they received those notices or someone they knew received them, became soured on the brand and their rabid devotion to the brand was crushed. I think it is a lesson that a lot of companies have to consider. You have to vigorously defend your IP to keep it but you also have to consider the manner in which you defend it. Otherwise, you might alienate some of the people buying licensed products from that IP and wind up with a property that is not worth defending. For example, ten years ago, I would certainly see Marvel Comics defending Spider-Man but not so much Howard the Duck. I also imagine Lucasfilm, and George Lucas, wish that someone would steal that property and make sure that it never resurfaced anywhere ever again. (I thought it was a fun movie when I was 10 but even then I realized it wasn't a good movie.)

Anyway, here endeth the rant. And remember, seek legal counsel for legal matters and professional help when you talk to yourself and begin answering yourself. Even more so if your dog starts answering you. :D

[trackanddice]

Looking at the link now, i think it was a hoax. What is it about sites and april fools jokes? We had the Warseer one and now this. (that i know of anyway) I am all for a laugh and a joke an all but i think these two probably went too far. The Warseer one just made them look like........ new here so won't swear. And this one will at best annoy alot of their customers, which are everything to a small business, and at worst actually draw attention to them from GW legal.

At the same time, the nerd rage generated from these have probably given birth to a new Chaos God in the warp!