GW revives Specialist Games?

[William Lang]

16362
This image has now been posted by three Games Workshops stores in Australia on their Facebook pages along with a message from the store manager. Could this possibly be true?

[Mr Mystery]

I do hope so.

Also...this ties into a nugget I was told a couple of months back, that BFG was being adapted for Heresy era fleets by FW.

Now we can't of course treat as confirmation by any stretch, but this is otherwise a cruel, cruel joke.

[William Lang]

I do hope so.

Also...this ties into a nugget I was told a couple of months back, that BFG was being adapted for Heresy era fleets by FW.

Now we can't of course treat as confirmation by any stretch, but this is otherwise a cruel, cruel joke.It's being announced by US stores as well: https://www.facebook.com/GWFreewayV/posts/929528593794637

[Mr Mystery]

*BRAIN ASPLODES*

The cash cannon may not suffice....

Marjorie.......PREPARE THE MUNNEH BOMB!

[Cutter]

16362
This image has now been posted by three Games Workshops stores in Australia on their Facebook pages along with a message from the store manager. Could this possibly be true?

Practically a workshop of games.

Glad they finally got there.

[Path Walker]

Well there you go, no need to hint around it any more

[Cutter]

Well there you go, no need to hint around it any more

None at all.

[Psychosplodge]

Well there you go, no need to hint around it any more

Sooooooooooooo Which branch do you work at? :D

[Kirsten]

I wonder if they will come back as they were, or with new editions

[Mr Mystery]

I just hope Necromunda gets some new models.

Seriously needs it.

Providing of course this is completely legit, and not a wind up.

[Kirsten]

indeed. if it is true and there is a studio handling it, then that suggests new editions, models etc. otherwise they would just resume casting up the old stuff presumably, wouldn't need a team behind it.

[Mr Mystery]

True.

But then I'd argue stuff like Epic and BFG don't necessarily need replacement models for the time being - just new armies adding so everyone is represented.

Which goes with what you're saying so I'll shut up for now :p

[Arkhan Land]

im still praying for new plastic via a boardgame treatment

[JamesP]

If true - and I really hope that it is* - I wonder if this is partly driven by GW observing the rising popularity of spaceship, skirmish and small scale Sf wargames in recent years (e.g. Dropzone Commander and the forthcoming Dropfleet Commander, Firestorm Armada and Planetfall, etc etc) and thnking, 'hang on, didn't we used to do that stuff and maybe it's time for us to try it again..?'

Of course, given that the miniature lines for the specialist games were eventually pulled due to low sales **, even the Forgeworld ones, I hope that if they are bringing them back, there is sufficient interest to keep any new games/ figure lines going.


* though my wallet is already pre-emptively screaming

[Mr Mystery]

Sales are sales though.

I guess the concern was product development and maintenance. You need to do releases at some point, otherwise a game can become a bit stale. However, that of course costs time and money.

It's arguable that time is the biggest factor here. GW, like any company have finite man hours to get done what they want to do. Whether it's a model for Necromunda or 40k, the sculpting and development time is likely to be the same.

Now, Necromunda might sell 5000 units fairly quickly (numbers out my bum, I warn you now!). 40k however? Quite possibly ten times that. So whilst both could happily turn a profit eventually, you get a much better return on 40k.

That of course is the crude surface. Bigger games are inherently more profitable.

However.....then you wander into the grey realm of 'feeder games'. The boxed sets are all well and good, but kind of depend on further purchases. This could put off casual consumers, those who think 'hey, that looks kind of cool'.

I for one got hooked via Heroquest, and for the early years mainly subsisted off Epic (one bloke to a stand made your purchases go further. Important when you're 12 and skint on account you're 12) and fare like Tyranid Attack. But that stuff kept me interested, and the look of 40k and Warhammer was aspirational to me.

Get this right, and they'll have their feeder games back.

Provided of course it remains not a wind up.

[Kirsten]

Necromunda would really benefit from new models. a boxed set of ten with masses of options, like GW kits are now, would do you for a gang for ages. if you had a couple of those in a boxed game, you could get masses of terrain in there as well due to the low model count, whilst giving loads of options.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Sounds to me like it would be more an expansion to FW, or like FW, so probably resin miniatures - perhaps with a plastic starter like the HH set. urgh, I just want decent NH xenos :P

[Mr Mystery]

Well, FW have shown they can do fantastic models.

Consider The Solar Auxilia Lasrifle Section (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Solar-Auxilia-Lasrifle-Section)

Absolutely gorgeous models. Really, really 'top of their game' type stuff. But, at £70 for one squad of several you will need for a Solar Auxilia army, a wee bit off putting.

But.....make that '£70 for pretty much every model I'm ever going to need, apart from weapon sprues' and I'm much more interested.

Doubly so if they keep it plastic (which to my mind makes sense, but there you go)

[Alaric]

Iirc one of the HH campaigns has a spot to inject BFG so I wonder if any heresy Era ships will be released. Really hope so as its pretty neat to start with BFG then Planetstrike/city fight/epic and skirmish can all be worked in. Immersion ftw.

[Path Walker]

This is part of the drive from the new CEO, who sees sales as sales and is willing to invest to get them as long as they're profitable.

When GW decided to sideline Specialist Games, they were in a more commanding position within the industry, now, with advances in technology making it easier and the crowdfunding bubble, thats not so much the case.

In 2005, a sale for Epic was a sale not on 40k (for example) because generally, a hobbyist is a hobbyist and if they're not buying one model, they're buying another.

Now, the Epic fan who was reluctantly buying 40k is buying Dropzone Commander, or buying stand-ins from Indiegogo or ordering printed replacements from Shapeways (and weeping at them when they snap in half.) the Necromunda fan is playing Infinity or Deadzone (again, weeping).

Its now the right time to get those sales back, they've solidified their core product (40k just continues to sell well) they've put a plan in place to stop their second game losing money (Age of Sigmar just needs to break even, which Fantasy Battle wasn't) now they can diversify

[Psychosplodge]

Now I just need to get people to play necromunda...

[JamesP]

Iirc one of the HH campaigns has a spot to inject BFG so I wonder if any heresy Era ships will be released. Really hope so as its pretty neat to start with BFG then Planetstrike/city fight/epic and skirmish can all be worked in. Immersion ftw.

Perhaps they will. Atia mentioned 'Battlefleet HERESY' on Bolter and Chainsword, though whether that should be read as confirmation that Heresy-era BFG ships or rules are coming, or as an informed guess, or just as something to be hoped for, I have no idea: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/315945-gw-reopens-specialist-games/page-2#entry4222879

I agree entirely about linked games (it's one of the reasons that I've pledged to the Dropfleet Commander KS) and FW have some good history in this regard, I really liked the BFG section they did for the Badab War books.

[Kirsten]

a lot of imperial ships will work for 30k as much as 40k battlefleet, they didn't change much.

[JamesP]

a lot of imperial ships will work for 30k as much as 40k battlefleet, they didn't change much.

And some of what are Chaos-only ships in the 40k-era could be used as Loyalist or Traitor vessels in a 30k BFG.

It'd also be an opportunity for GW to create the 30k-only ships we've seen in various bits of Heresy artwork over the years. Gloriana-class battlebarge (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/2c/Iron_Blood_IW_Flagship.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140326182258), anyone?

[Charon]

I'm curious... I quite like the community rules. They are pretty well done.

[Mr.Pickelz]

If this is indeed true, i'm really hoping Forgeworld handles BFG, their Tau fleet was many miles and/or kilometers ahead of what GW offered, and their Space Marine Frigates were insanely detailed versus the little metal sticks that GW charged for.

[Alaric]

a lot of imperial ships will work for 30k as much as 40k battlefleet, they didn't change much.

Agreed, its what we use right now but coyld you imagine the awesomeness of fw ones??! So awesome... Except...the price..what am I sayin. Ill still buy them.

[JamesP]

Sales are sales though.

I guess the concern was product development and maintenance. You need to do releases at some point, otherwise a game can become a bit stale. However, that of course costs time and money.

It's arguable that time is the biggest factor here. GW, like any company have finite man hours to get done what they want to do. Whether it's a model for Necromunda or 40k, the sculpting and development time is likely to be the same....

One option might be to focus on periodic new model releases and let the rules stay as they are. Analogous to when GW still sold specialist games models on their site and had the rules and (most of) the supplements available as free PDFs. If it works for AoS...

Of course, unlike AoS, most of the specialist games models are a) metal and b) old. So they would probably need to spend sometime producing plastic updated versions of older metal models as well. Would this be a profitable and non-time intensive model? Answers on a postcard please.

As for writing material, they could try what the old Fanatic/ Specialist Games used to do and look for writers from the hobby community who are still into those games. It's over ten years ago now IIRC but I and some mates from the Kingston Games Group in SW London were fairly active on the BFG Yahoogroup mailing list, which Andy Chambers used to frequent. We did an online summer BFG campaign, as GW wasn't doing one that covered BFG that year and Fanatic eventually got wind of it and asked us to rewrite some of the online stuff for publication in BFG Magazine.

There are a lot of BFG/ Epic/ Bloodbowl players still out there and still producing material. The question is whether GW might want to go down that route again and whether anything 'fan' produced would be considered suitable under GW's current management culture, which is arguably a bit different to what it was ten years ago. Then again, Fanatic Games was, I understand, sort of Jervis Johnson's pet project and if he or similar advocates for specialist games are still allowed that kind of leeway, who knows?




...Get this right, and they'll have their feeder games back.



Definitely. I think they'd also appeal to existing players and not just because of nostalgia or, for younger players, the "I've been hearing for years how good [INSERT SPECIALIST GAME HERE] was and now I want to try it" factor.

Stating the obvious, all of the specialist games offered something different to WFB and 40K. Don't feel like 40k but want to play something skirmish level? Try Necromunda. Want something fun yet tactical and also portable? Bloodbowl. 40k but portable? Space Hulk. Mass combat but a quicker and more suitable rule set than Apocalypse? Epic (and it's also a lot more portable).

(And, though it's not a specialist game, play Block Mania if you ever find a copy. Because it's brilliant.)

Everyone I knew who played specialist games also played 40k and/or WFB. They might have spent a little less than they otherwise would have on the two main GW games, but their overall spend was higher. Of course, that's anecdotal evidence from a small(-ish) group. And it falls down a bit in the face of GW cancelling the entire specialist games line due to low sales. But I still think it'd be worth their while to bring them back.

[Erik Setzer]

I'm going to wait for something truly official. Then see what they release, and at what price point. If they do it right, I'll cheer.

It's kind of believable just because the market is getting more and more games similar to the line they decided to up and cancel, and those games are making sales. GW's been sitting on solid competitors (if they don't price themselves out of the running) but didn't want to do anything with them because you can't get someone to spend $800-$1000 on a game just to have one faction, and probably didn't want to be associated with so many games (because, you know, games are so evil.)

But there's so many sales they're losing out on, and more so as people decide it's better to spend $100-$150 on a game, and if they choose to spend more, they can add extra factions for variety. And $100 is better than $0, which is what GW's getting from a lot of people right now.

It really does depend on if they do it smart, though (against, assuming this is real). If they try that "premium pricing" BS, they'll find themselves out of the running fast. Infinity is the worst case scenario of pricing for a small game (though everyone discounts their models anyway), but even they'd pale in comparison if GW decided to try doing $30-$40 characters in Necromunda. At least Corvus Belli has the excuse that they're a small company using pewter, a material so expensive GW ran from it in such a hurry they pushed out the worst garbage material ever used to make "professional" figures. But some people are still turned off by the prices. They prefer other games, cheaper games.

I'll hope for the best, but I'm not going to expect it, because that path leads to disappointment, especially as GW's track record isn't the best lately.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

If anything, the decline began with Epic 40,000.

Now don't get me wrong, as a ruleset there was nothing fundamentally wrong with it (much of it was ported over to BFG, a game still held in high esteem). But, it just wasn't a patch on Space Marine and Titan Legions.

It was quite a dramatic shift in how you approach a battle. You needed to think a lot more about how you grouped stuff together for maximum firepower - and it just wasn't for me. And sadly, I wasn't the only one who didn't take to it.

Epic Armageddon was much better, but alas too little too late it would seem.

And as Epic seemed to sell better than the other SG range (probably because you needed more stuff), it could have given the impression people didn't want that scale of game, when all I for one wanted back was Space Marine.

And again - if this turns out to be a cruel joke, I'll be unhappy. You wouldn't like me when I'm unhappy.

[Path Walker]

The company is on its 3rd board game release of the last 18 months or so with the reissue of Space Hulk, the Execution Force and Betrayal at Calth. The know how to push out solid board games.

I do hope Forge World, now freed from having to cast tons of Space Marines with the plastic kits, is able to take on some new games.

[Erik Setzer]

And it falls down a bit in the face of GW cancelling the entire specialist games line due to low sales.

"Low sales" basically means they didn't like that a person can get a Necromunda gang for $100. Meanwhile, they're pushing 40K to have more super-heavies, lower points for models, and everything they can to make a basic 40K game feel like a game of Apocalypse used to feel, meaning you need a few hundred dollars of stuff easy. Heck, I think the basic box for Necromunda might have been less than the current 40K rulebook.

[Mr Mystery]

£40. I remember. I got it on release day.

Also, something not to much overlooked as not mentioned.....the digital world has been running with the old SG range for a while now, and seems to be popular enough.

Perhaps that success has something to do with the alleged resurrection?

[Psychosplodge]

And it was possible to buy it cheaper as well.
I remember buying three boxes of space hulk for about £8 each when it went EOL and the works were selling them off.

[Alaric]

Just a total non backed up guess here but I think they have finally got their plan of action. They got their pricing where they feel it should be (which is ALWAYS gonna be too much for most) so now maybe they are going back and re releasing things that didn't sell very well but had a good following. Ive had to ditch products myself that did not sell well in favor of products that do sell well, and am now able to offer those old products because now the better products pay the bills allowing me to take a minor hit on the not as popular products. I re read that twice and cannot think of a better way of putting it but that's what I think they are doing.
It just makes sense from my own perspective, HH and 40k can carry the weight while they try new things (AoS) and maybe re introduce the old stuff like what we currently be chatting aboot. I would love an all plastic gang and newer plastic ships, not even a price would scare me away. I think they know they priced all the people that actually care a lot aboot pricing right out of the game and thus they now have a "if they buy it they buy it" attitude because they already know people WILL pay the prices for HH and 40k.

[William Lang]

Confirmation
16364

[Mr Mystery]

SING HOSANAS!

Right. Time to tap up Mr Shaun. Find out where he stashed my Epic Orks.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

They should hire me and I will sculpt lots of actually good looking aliens for them.

[Mr Mystery]

ONE HUNDRED AND ELEVENTYSQUILLION PERCENT TRUE!!!!

Screen grab from the GW App.

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16365&d=1447354330

[Path Walker]

Yeah, I need to tell my mate I need my Epic Ork Army back now! Oh and continue the work on my Necromunda! And just off my Play Book oh, oh and get those ships out of mothballs...

[Insert_nickname_here]

I have to admit, I find it satisfying that most of the epic players are talking about dusting off their orks, none of this poncy Imperium nonsense. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Waaagh!

[Erik Setzer]

Guys, please don't rake me over the coals too much and call me "Negative Nancy" and all, but... That announcement has me kind of worried.

It talks up the "success" of Betrayal at Calth selling as a boxed game (missing the point entirely that people don't order multiples of a board game, people are buying it for much cheaper figures to use in a miniatures game), and seems to be hinting that the Specialist Games are going to come back as boxed and stand-alone games. If the first part of that just means starter boxes with add-ons released (like Necromunda, Mordheim, BFG), fine. Strange to word it that way, but okay, that's cool. If they give it treatment like Man'O'War being "revamped" as Dreadfleet... no. Just no. Standalone games on the side, like Space Hulk, Tyranid Attack, HeroQuest (though it did have expansions), Space Crusade, and Bombers Over the Sulfur River? Sure, those are cool.

We're not buying BoC because we like the board game (that no one's really had a chance to even play yet). We're buying it to boost armies in a completely different game. The miniatures games are what people want.

It also seems odd that they'd do this less than a week after BoC went up for preorders. So they decided, just based on the first couple days, that they're going to create a whole new branch of the company? That's less than a week they've had to decide to do this. How much do they really have fleshed out? (It's possible - likely, rather - that they planned it before BoC's preorder, but don't want to say that, for some reason.) And hey, what about the sales for Execution Force? Oh, um, right... yeah, I remember all the copies sitting in the local GW store and FLGS's...

I hope they catch what people really want and aren't just trying to do a bunch of board games.

[JamesP]

"Low sales" basically means they didn't like that a person can get a Necromunda gang for $100. Meanwhile, they're pushing 40K to have more super-heavies, lower points for models, and everything they can to make a basic 40K game feel like a game of Apocalypse used to feel, meaning you need a few hundred dollars of stuff easy. Heck, I think the basic box for Necromunda might have been less than the current 40K rulebook.

Excellent points.

- - - Updated - - -

In case people haven't seen it, Natfka has a post which has recent comments from Hastings, the BFG Heresy one from Atia, two GW branches and noting that GW is advertising a lot of design posts: http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/all-you-need-to-know-about-new.html

This post predates the official confirmation from GW, he's only just put that up.

[JamesP]

I have to admit, I find it satisfying that most of the epic players are talking about dusting off their orks, none of this poncy Imperium nonsense. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Waaagh!

Makes me very glad I've finally been updating my Mega Gargant :)

16366

[Mr Mystery]

DA FYOOTCHA IZ GREEN!

Stomp da humies!

[JamesP]

He'll be joining some veteran 'oomie-stompaz, and bringing some orbital support with him:

163671636816369

[Mr Mystery]

Pinched of Lil Legends FB feed. Again.

16370

I think this was previously missed/glossed over....

[Kirsten]

awesome, and oh so cute

[Wolfshade]

Its awesome news.

[YorkNecromancer]

I have to admit, I find it satisfying that most of the epic players are talking about dusting off their orks, none of this poncy Imperium nonsense. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Waaagh!

I think you'll find we servants of the Omnissiah will be dusting off our ENTIRE TITAN LEGIONS.

Because in the grim darkness of the far future, I'll see your WAARGGH! and raise you ALL THE HIDEOUS DEATH BY SUPERHEATED PLASMA YOU CAN EAT.


Pinched of Lil Legends FB feed. Again.

16370

I think this was previously missed/glossed over....

:eek:

OH MY OMNISSIAH.

[Alex Knight]

I think you'll find we servants of the Omnissiah will be dusting off our ENTIRE TITAN LEGIONS.

Because in the grim darkness of the far future, I'll see your WAARGGH! and raise you ALL THE HIDEOUS DEATH BY SUPERHEATED PLASMA YOU CAN EAT.



:eek:

OH MY OMNISSIAH.

Question 1: Do we *really* need this planet?
Question 2: Why not use Cyclonic Torpedos and waste it. We can still mine the minerals off this rock, right?

[Kirsten]

I got Epic when it launched, didn't play the earlier ones. didn't really get in to it, but if Forge World did a load of awesome titans I might pick them up just to have, that mars warlord looks amazing.

[YorkNecromancer]

Question 1: Do we *really* need this planet?
Question 2: Why not use Cyclonic Torpedos and waste it. We can still mine the minerals off this rock, right?

If you can't see the whites of their eyes YOU'RE IMPERIUMING WRONG.

[Alex Knight]

I got Epic when it launched, didn't play the earlier ones. didn't really get in to it, but if Forge World did a load of awesome titans I might pick them up just to have, that mars warlord looks amazing.

I wish I would have picked up the Forgeworld Warhounds when they were available. They ended up being cheaper as a pair, than the GW metal Warhounds when both were available. I sat on it far too long though. :\

[JamesP]

I think you'll find we servants of the Omnissiah will be dusting off our ENTIRE TITAN LEGIONS.

Because in the grim darkness of the far future, I'll see your WAARGGH! and raise you ALL THE HIDEOUS DEATH BY SUPERHEATED PLASMA YOU CAN EAT.

My Gargants don't exist to withstand Titan Legion weaponry. They exist to slowly lumber towards them, get shot a lot and set on fire on the way, and finally blow up and take the Titans with them :)

[Kirsten]

I wish I would have picked up the Forgeworld Warhounds when they were available. They ended up being cheaper as a pair, than the GW metal Warhounds when both were available. I sat on it far too long though. :\

yeah they were nice too

[Mr Mystery]

Am up and about now.

Can confirm were Defo not dreaming.

Huzzahs and sing hosanas!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

well i just looked outside and have noticed the sky has fallen...

[Arkhan Land]

thats just space junk burning up over sri lanka

[Mr Mystery]

If you can't see the whites of their eyes YOU'RE IMPERIUMING WRONG.

http://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M50ce399a47924fa230c9e88d58ab02e3o0&w=136&h=141&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sodahead.com%2fliving%2fwill-you-save-me%2fquestion-3636503%2f&pid=1.1

[Cutter]

This is part of the drive from the new CEO, who sees sales as sales and is willing to invest to get them as long as they're profitable.

When GW decided to sideline Specialist Games, they were in a more commanding position within the industry, now, with advances in technology making it easier and the crowdfunding bubble, thats not so much the case.

In 2005, a sale for Epic was a sale not on 40k (for example) because generally, a hobbyist is a hobbyist and if they're not buying one model, they're buying another.

Now, the Epic fan who was reluctantly buying 40k is buying Dropzone Commander, or buying stand-ins from Indiegogo or ordering printed replacements from Shapeways (and weeping at them when they snap in half.) the Necromunda fan is playing Infinity or Deadzone (again, weeping).

Its now the right time to get those sales back, they've solidified their core product (40k just continues to sell well) they've put a plan in place to stop their second game losing money (Age of Sigmar just needs to break even, which Fantasy Battle wasn't) now they can diversify

up up the ziggurat lickety-split

- - - Updated - - -


But, it just wasn't a patch on Space Marine and Titan Legions.

or Adeptus Titanicus

- - - Updated - - -


ONE HUNDRED AND ELEVENTYSQUILLION PERCENT TRUE!!!!

Are yor SURE the financial sector is the one for you E?

[Mr Mystery]

I seem to be doing quite well :p

[Path Walker]

I think we need to be better at embracing change, as a hobby community, and that anything GW puts out under this banner (barring Blood Bowl which, by LRB 6 was pretty much perfect) the games it's working on are all in need of a lot of updates and changes to ensure that they're easy to get to grips with for newbies and that they're financially viable.

These aren't going to be straight rereleases of Necromunda. They might make a new Boardgame set in the Underhive and FW makes some resin models for other gangs and then they put a new version of the Necromunda LRB (I sincerely hope they do because it might stop new Necromunda players thinking the bull**** New Comminity Edition is any good, think misses the point of the game and is designed my committee, they've ended up with a full on camel.)

[Kirsten]

well we don't yet know what any of the releases will be like

[Mr Mystery]

Yarp.

From the wording, it seems Necro etc will be back as full games, but we can also expect other boxed games, and 'stand-alone sets'.

[Kirsten]

yeah I can't see Necromunda becoming a board game

[Defenestratus]

yeah I can't see Necromunda becoming a board game

My original Necromunda box has packing tape reinforcing the corners - and the cardboard catwalk pieces are a little worse for wear. I would love if they treated Necromunda to the same quality of the tiles of the space hulk set. Catwalks and building pieces would be made out of that high quality card stock.

[Erik Setzer]

Pinched of Lil Legends FB feed. Again.

16370

I think this was previously missed/glossed over....

It's entirely possible that's just a miniature they used to figure out how they wanted to design the large model, which is why no one made a big deal of it.

Granted, if they have the means to make it at that size, that's a step for a new Titan. Which I'd love, because the boxy one just didn't do it for me nearly as much as the classic bubble tops. (Similarly, the boxy Gargants weren't nearly as cool as the round ones.)

- - - Updated - - -


I got Epic when it launched, didn't play the earlier ones. didn't really get in to it, but if Forge World did a load of awesome titans I might pick them up just to have, that mars warlord looks amazing.

Ah, you missed out...

First edition Space Marine/Adeptus Titanicus was set during the Heresy, and had all kinds of awesome stories and art. I loved the one picture of Marines fighting Marines with Titans on each side in a city with Roman/Greek style architecture, and there were Marines tied to pillars with barbed wire. Perfectly summed it up.

Space Marine/Titan Legions was a really fun game, and had a relatively simple set of rules, but lots of flexibility. I loved selecting an army with a core infantry or tank company that had support units attached to it (multiple companies in the army). Shooting at Titans using the grids and rolling the dice to see where the hit might have strayed (and hiding Titans behind buildings to protect the reactors). The fun way the Imperator Titan generated plasma points and had to dole them out to systems. So much awesome stuff. And, of course, more good fluff (like how the Orks building Gargants woke up Gork and Mork, and basically all the other gods realized they were the biggest and baddest in the galaxy).

If you can find copies of the older versions, check them out.

[Erik Setzer]

Yarp.

From the wording, it seems Necro etc will be back as full games, but we can also expect other boxed games, and 'stand-alone sets'.

Reverse the order.

It seems the first order of business will be more games that include sets of 40K or AoS figures, which will sell well because they're discounted quite a bit, like HH:BoC (and, though it didn't sell amazingly but might now that people know the "savings," OA:EF). Cheap to develop, gets things rolling.

The old Specialist Games stuff is mentioned after that. Not the initial focus.

An optimistic view of the wording could suggest that the old SG starter boxes could be viewed as "boxed games" and so they might dig out that stuff and sell those again as "boxed games" that have add-ons. Heck, that's basically what Warhammer Quest was all along. But you can see the wording working for Necromunda or Mordheim, in a way, since the starter boxes gave you two forces, dice, measuring stick, complete rulebook with rules for multiple factions, and terrain you could assemble. You could literally play with just what's in the box. BFG was the same as well. Not sure on E40K or EArm, but SM/TL had rules, faction rules/lists, dice, figures, terrain... Can't remember if there was a measuring tool. But basically, yeah, complete game in a box. Other faction releases or add-ons to the factions in the box are "expanding the product line." Doesn't necessarily mean they'll get the Dreadfleet treatment.

GW's earned the cynicism, so it's hard to be positive, but I can see this as just being a case of their marketing team (such as it even exists) not knowing how to describe the product lines and just using internal language, which creates concern that may not be warranted.

The big thing to be seen is... How will they do these things? The best way would be to make the prices competitive with other games, not trying the "premium pricing" model. Just admit to what they are. Release core box at $100 (which makes them competitive with, say, Imperial Assault), warband/gang starter boxes at $50, individual models at $8-10, maybe $15 for characters, separate paperback rulebooks at $35-40... They could cause games like Infinity and Malifaux some serious concerns. If they price them too high, then people will just stick with what's been on the market, and an opportunity is lost.

[fredster4050]

I'm late to the game, but the return of SG is very welcome. There are rumours of Epic returning but in another scale (10mm), is this just scuttlebutt or is there truth in this madness!

[Mr Mystery]

Just wish listing so far as I'm aware.

I hope they stick to 6mm. I've got a decent sized Orky army. Somewhere.

[fredster4050]

I've got a truck load of Epic from the old days and play when I can, I don't really want to Ebay it to raise funds for 10mm! However GW would cull the thriving Epic market at a stroke by swapping scale, so even if I did, it'll be devalued if GW change scale.

I can imagine it getting raised at least once in the new SG design studio!

[odinsgrandson]

Here's a thing to think about: how far in advance does GW normally officially announce something?

With AOS, they waited until the release was pretty much on top of us, didn't they? I mean, if you were following the rumors, you had seen almost all of it beforehand. But the release was practically on top of us before the announcements were made. They normally have everything finished, and make the official announcement way late. Like when it isn't news anymore.



So, I see a few possibilities here:

- GW have decided to announce Specialist Games, and the return of all of these old games way in advance, and plan do re-imagine all of the cool games from back in the day. This gets people excited, but they then don't actually sell us anything for a long while.

This might be motivated to keep people from thinking that Betrayal at Calth is a limited edition game (like Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, Assassinorum and Space Hulk again).

- GW are going to simply re-release things that we've pretty much already seen, and that's why we don't have any leaks about new stuff- basically because there isn't any. We'll just get the old stuff available again (and that ugly green board) and the rumors don't really circulate about that.

- GW made the announcement now because they had some other financial reasons to make the change. Maybe they want to get the LotR stuff out of their "Main Lines" (ie it makes things look bad to investors, maybe it is hurting their LGS sales because they're required to stock the main lines).

- GW have learned to keep a lid on things, and there's a lot of cool stuff they're waiting to show us.

[Erik Setzer]

Just wish listing so far as I'm aware.

I hope they stick to 6mm. I've got a decent sized Orky army. Somewhere.

6mm is better. You can put a lot more on the table. With 40K becoming increasing like a small-scale Epic battle with larger figures, you want to have actual Epic be as small as possible so you can fit more onto the table. We're looking at full tank companies, entire SM companies, Titans, Knights, Baneblade Squadrons, etc. in 40K. Epic needs to be small enough you can have 2-3 companies, multiple Titans, dozens of tanks, all that jazz.

Also, if they still have their old molds, keeping the scale the same means they can get a jump on production.

[Mr Mystery]

And that's pretty much the clincher.

6mm Epic Scale already exists, particularly for the Infantry.

Assuming they won't be putting out metal models for it, that still reduces down the necessary costs to redo the game, meaning it's quicker to get to market and that much more profitable from the get go.

But having said that, never say never.

I'll just be glad to have Epic back at all.

[Erik Setzer]

Another thing to consider is how poorly Warmaster was received for its scale. I didn't mind, I thought the models looked nice, but a lot of people didn't like the "odd" scale.

[Mr Mystery]

I dunno if it was the models so much that it wasn't the 'Epic Warhammer' many hoped/expected.

It's style a mighty fine game like, but plays very differently to anything else GW had put out to that point.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Epic should live up to it's name and have the equivilent of an entire chapter as the general size of a game IMO. Oh and bigger titans, way bigger.

[StraightSilver]

Just to clarify - the 10mm Epic came from another thread where people were asked what they WANTED to see from specialist games. I would prefer Epic to be in 10mm as i hate painting 6mm however I don't doubt it will stay in 6mm.

[Just Tony]

Another thing to consider is how poorly Warmaster was received for its scale. I didn't mind, I thought the models looked nice, but a lot of people didn't like the "odd" scale.

I think it was poorly received because it only brought tiny minis and an awkward game mechanic compared to what WFB players were used to. Had giants and ridden monsters been saved for that scale, then it would have had more draw, but it had the problem then what Epic will have with 40K now: nothing new brought to the table except tinier minis and an awkward game mechanic compared to what the 40K players are used to. Sure, you could say relative size of armies, but is that really a draw?

[Mr Mystery]

Epic and Warmaster both worked well for their scale.

For Warmaster, every fight was essentially a game of Warhammer, but of course abstracted.

Epic - proper old Epic (it's not often I'm an edition snob, but this one is a stickler for me!) was generally won through careful contestation of the Objectives, coupled with the choice elimination of enemy units. So akin to modern 40k, but arguably harder thanks to the orders system. You really, really needed to think about what you wanted to do, as it was IGO/UGO, with different phases to be worked in.

[Lurker]

I'm late to the party but I brought some cookies.

16776

[notwolf]

I'm late to the party but I brought some cookies.

16776

that's not how 'hazard' is spelled. not even across the pond.

[Mr Mystery]

It is in Hazzard county.

Just as Bo and Luke.

[odinsgrandson]

Yeah, it seems a little uncharacteristic of GW to make an announcement via official channels like this for something that is so far out- but all of our speculation is pre-mature. So far, GW don't know what the new Specialist Division will do either.

I guess they didn't want people just throwing around rumors when they started hiring project management for the new division.

Or they wanted to promise that the new board game would stick around (unlike the last three they released). Or that the Hobbit would be supported again, even though it is feeling pretty abandoned at the moment.

Anyway, lets hope they're listening to the good speculation.