2000pts Fallen Realms WotR List

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Considering my finalized 1500pt list found here (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=281). Rip away at my planned expansions for that list:





The Dark Marshal 125


Amdur, Lord of Blades 165


Dalamyr, Fleetmaster of Umbar 100


Easterling Cohort 4 companies 155
Dragon Knight


Easterling Cohort 4 companies 155
Dragon Knight


Easterling Cohort 4 companies 225
Pikes, Dragon Knight


Easterling Archer Cohort 4 companies 190


Easterling Archer Cohort 4 companies 190


Easterling Kataphrakt Cohort 5 companies 175


Black Guard of Barad-dûr 3 companies 200
Uruk-Hai Captain, Uruk-Hai Drummer


Black Guard of Barad-dûr 3 companies 200
Uruk-Hai Captain, Uruk Hai Drummer


War Mumak of Harad 250



Total: 1995pts



Thank You! All C&C is appreciated! :D

[icecube]

Looking quite good already, even trough i still think that without your pikes cavarly will cause your foot units quite some trouble. If your not going to take pikes i would suggest taking Khâmul instead of the Dark Marshal.::)

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Looking quite good already, even trough i still think that without your pikes cavarly will cause your foot units quite some trouble. If your not going to take pikes i would suggest taking Khâmul instead of the Dark Marshal.::)

Thanks! :D


True but in most armies you face more Infantry than cavalry and with Pikes you lose your charge bonuses (ALL OF THEM!) so I would rather keep the pikes off them for that purpose and also I have a budget so modelwise I couldn't give them all pikes anyways.




Why Khamul over The Dark Marshal? Considering Khamul's ability only takes effect on a roll of a 5 or 6 and The Dark Marshal is a certainty of anyone he chooses in 12".

[iamaddj]

Honestly I would not take either. For an evil army you have a generally high fight, so the Dark Marshal does not do you all that good. Khamul does not seem like a great fit for you army because you don't have a lot of high model count, low defense units to make Khamul really worth it. Instead I would take the Knight of Umbar (who has a HAWT new model coming out!) his ability while similar to the Dark Marshall will allow you to take advantage of any crazy enemy heroes, (good if you fight alot of Elves also prevents them from using Epic Strike, or barrow the strength of an enemy unit, which can be particularity good if you ever fight monsters, giving a whole unit the strength of an Ent seems a little awesome to me.

Pikes again are awesome, while you might not get the extra attack for charging you get a higher F, which is kind of like having an extra attack all the time. But sounds like you still can't get those on every thing and thats cool.


Other then that the army looks pretty solid, I am not totally sold on the 2nd unit of Black Guard, I feel like there might be a better use for those points, but meh.

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Honestly I would not take either. For an evil army you have a generally high fight, so the Dark Marshal does not do you all that good. Khamul does not seem like a great fit for you army because you don't have a lot of high model count, low defense units to make Khamul really worth it. Instead I would take the Knight of Umbar (who has a HAWT new model coming out!) his ability while similar to the Dark Marshall will allow you to take advantage of any crazy enemy heroes, (good if you fight alot of Elves also prevents them from using Epic Strike, or barrow the strength of an enemy unit, which can be particularity good if you ever fight monsters, giving a whole unit the strength of an Ent seems a little awesome to me.

Pikes again are awesome, while you might not get the extra attack for charging you get a higher F, which is kind of like having an extra attack all the time. But sounds like you still can't get those on every thing and thats cool.


Other then that the army looks pretty solid, I am not totally sold on the 2nd unit of Black Guard, I feel like there might be a better use for those points, but meh.


Sounds like a good idea. The Knight of Umbar does have a new model coming out that isn't bad. I personally like The Dark Marshal's model way more. So I will meditate on your suggestion of Ringwraith and decide which is more important. Better rules? or a model I like better?


Yes the pikes are unfortunately unchangeable. Blame GW and their strange plastic box set composition.




As for the 2nd Black Guard unit, I will call them flank breakers. :D

[iamaddj]

Or maybe just call them face breakers! :D

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Or maybe just call them face breakers! :D


Haha yes I was absolutely convinced by a local red shirt of their effectiveness and I am now in love! Although I consider this list subject to change, depending on exactly what new reinforcements other than the two new Ringwraiths will be released in October. In the meantime any more comments on this version?





Thanks!



DKoR

[iamaddj]

Its looks pretty good on the whole, my only real worry is that honestly I think you have maybe too many Easterlings in the army (though with such awesome models its hard not to take a lot). I feel that you could drop two units of them (either both the archers, both the regular chorts, or one of each) That would free up alomost 400 pts to do stuff with. I don't really think it would hurt the over all effectiveness of the army either. You already have your good anvil unit (the pikes) your hammer (the black guard) and some ranged (archers) as well as a mumak, the rest alomost feels like filler, some is nice, but maybe you have too much?

Dropping those would give you some points to play with.

I would look at taking Haradrim Raider Warbands, they are a pretty awesome light cav unit, lances make them awesome and they are cheap and have poisoned weapons, they are very good at going after archers.

You could always take a 2nd Mumak.

Maybe another hero? or some more captains? Suladan is pretty awesome, tough more casting would not be amiss, maybe a shaman in the Black Guard? I dunno.

On a last note I think that Morgul Knights are better then Easterling Kataphrakt, less S but better D and lances more then makes up for it, also terror. Both are metal models, tough I have no idea what you are doing for models, I do like the Easterling Kataphrakt models better.

Thats about it I think you will be fine with the list how it is, there is some room to tweak it a bit, make it a little more hardcore, but that does not seem to be your goal, and I think it will do just fine how it is.

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Its looks pretty good on the whole, my only real worry is that honestly I think you have maybe too many Easterlings in the army (though with such awesome models its hard not to take a lot). I feel that you could drop two units of them (either both the archers, both the regular chorts, or one of each) That would free up alomost 400 pts to do stuff with. I don't really think it would hurt the over all effectiveness of the army either. You already have your good anvil unit (the pikes) your hammer (the black guard) and some ranged (archers) as well as a mumak, the rest alomost feels like filler, some is nice, but maybe you have too much?

I have lots of Easterlings because I love the models, thats about it. Also we are big on themes so mostly Easterling is my main goal. I want it to be like a Rhun army with allies. So I am not really keen on the take away Easterlings idea.




Dropping those would give you some points to play with.

I would look at taking Haradrim Raider Warbands, they are a pretty awesome light cav unit, lances make them awesome and they are cheap and have poisoned weapons, they are very good at going after archers.

You could always take a 2nd Mumak.


Every time I see Haradrim Raiders they get killed early on and easily before they can hit the enemy. I guess I just don't like them from personal experience.


A 2nd Mumak is a consideration but again I want it to be mostly a Rhun army with allies so if I get away from the Easterlings too much I will lose the fluff drive of my army.



Maybe another hero? or some more captains? Suladan is pretty awesome, tough more casting would not be amiss, maybe a shaman in the Black Guard? I dunno.

On a last note I think that Morgul Knights are better then Easterling Kataphrakt, less S but better D and lances more then makes up for it, also terror. Both are metal models, tough I have no idea what you are doing for models, I do like the Easterling Kataphrakt models better.

Thats about it I think you will be fine with the list how it is, there is some room to tweak it a bit, make it a little more hardcore, but that does not seem to be your goal, and I think it will do just fine how it is.


Hmmm...Another hero is a consideration and I do like Suladan. I could put him in one of my Cohorts.



Morgul Knights, yes they are better than Easterling Kataphrakts but they are 1-4 companies while Kataphrakts are 1-6. Im not even sure if that's a valid point, but I have never liked having a unit of 4 companies and then a unit of 1 or 2. So I would get 4 companies of Morgul Knights or 5 companies of Kataphrakts which I like more and would keep the Rhun core stronger. Tough choice really. :o



If you feel otherwise on any of my points than feel free to correct me. :D

[iamaddj]

Like I said I think the army is fine, I love that you have a theme and want to stick to it, and I fully understand (and support) building for theme and because you like the models, I do that also, its awesome, its what at heart the game should be about. So all my suggestions are just for competitive play and don't really take fluff in to much consideration. And I just want to say I really like where how this army is looking, seems like a lot of fun.

About Raiders, I think the problem (because I have seen this also at times) is not with the unit but with how they are being played. People seem to use them just like they use other heavy cav, which they are most certainly not. People often fail to go for flanks with them, and I have never seen people keep them in reinforcement which is a tactic I think is very good but under used.

I don't really think the Morgul Knights being only 4 companies is a super big deal. It kind of sucks but and if it was a drop from say 6-7 to 4 I would say thats a problem, but 4 is a pretty good number, and it would give unit a banner (which I think is really important for cav, or any assault unit really). Over all I think this unit would be more effective and powerful then the Easterling Kataphrakts, but it is in the end a matter of taste.

Suladan is pretty awesome.

[Dragon Knight Of Rhun]

Like I said I think the army is fine, I love that you have a theme and want to stick to it, and I fully understand (and support) building for theme and because you like the models, I do that also, its awesome, its what at heart the game should be about. So all my suggestions are just for competitive play and don't really take fluff in to much consideration. And I just want to say I really like where how this army is looking, seems like a lot of fun.

About Raiders, I think the problem (because I have seen this also at times) is not with the unit but with how they are being played. People seem to use them just like they use other heavy cav, which they are most certainly not. People often fail to go for flanks with them, and I have never seen people keep them in reinforcement which is a tactic I think is very good but under used.

I don't really think the Morgul Knights being only 4 companies is a super big deal. It kind of sucks but and if it was a drop from say 6-7 to 4 I would say thats a problem, but 4 is a pretty good number, and it would give unit a banner (which I think is really important for cav, or any assault unit really). Over all I think this unit would be more effective and powerful then the Easterling Kataphrakts, but it is in the end a matter of taste.

Suladan is pretty awesome.



Yea I cant wait til its finished im hoping for a few months after Christmas for completion but I never know with myself. Its hard to inspire myself to paint.


Yea I guess so. I may consider Raiders if I go to 2500pts later but im not even going to consider that expansion until much later.


Yea I think I might take 4 companies of Morgul Knights with Banner Bearer instead of 5 companies of Easterling Kataphrakts. It would be a better retinue for my Ringwraith wouldn't it?



Also while on that topic what is your thoughts on The Betrayer? Also what would you consider to be the BEST Ringwraith both fluffwise and rulewise?

[Dark Lord]

I think that you should take Khamul. He is incredible. I put him on my mumak and its almost untouchable. I was playing elves a while ago and legolas used his epic shot on my mumak. he rolled 5, then i redirected those onto a nearby ent, killing it. I can honestly say that I think that Khamul is probably the best ringwraith to use.

As an afterthought, if ur goin to 2500 points i suggest making ur mumak even more unkillable and putting the shadow lord on it. Ur mumak would be hiddin, deflect most attacks and well, its a mumak. strongest thing we have in fallen realms. once you get in close, your opponent won't be able to kill you (especially since most of his attacks are flying back at him). If you want to make him even better in close combat (extremely hard to do btw). try putting Amdur on top of him and when hes in close combat with a large block of troops, use epic rampage (ive never used amdur, its just a thought that popped into my head)

idk about fluff. i don't know much fluff about any of the ringwraiths. Only one that I know is SURPRISE Khamul. I know he is the lieutenant of dol guldur, and that he is ranked second amongst ringwraiths but I just took that off the games workshop site