Black Templar Clarification...

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I plan on starting a 'Templars army, and I'm leaning towards a biker army, and if anyone can help clarify a few things for me, I'd really appreciate it. The army list will be in the making if/when I get a few responses, this is the first army I'll be making in about 6 years... Some of these may seem a little obvious, but I want to make sure I get it right. I currently own the BT 4th ed Codex, and the 5th ed rulebook.

1. Does being mounted on a bike affect Righteous Zeal movement?

2. If I'm selecting bike squads as troops, are they limited to the size listed in the FA slot, or the full ten of the tac squad listing?
2b. Which FOC listing should I stick with when upgrading them?(FA listing allows for more power weapons)

3. Can I put neophytes on bikes?(Not sure if I'd want to, but I'd like to know where my options lie.)

4. If I put a Techmarine on a bike, I'm pretty sure that means no servitors, but would it work/pay off to go for the full servo harness as well?

5. Can I go with a Chaplain(on bike) as my main HQ slot? I'm under the impression you NEED to have a Captain, but if I can circumvent the 'Cap, I'd do it in a heartbeat. (I know they're not called chaplains/captains, just generalizing)

6. Would a command squad with Infiltrate better pay off out flanking or just cruising up the board?

I've done quite a bit of research, and spent almost 6 weeks lurking in the forums of this site as well as a few others. I'm looking to make an in-your-face-cut-you-faster-than-the-slap-chop type army, and I've got access to some models right away. Always liked 'templars too (first army), so any pointers/opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[Nabterayl]

1. Does being mounted on a bike affect Righteous Zeal movement?
Yes. Righteous Zeal only affects infantry units, as specified on page 23. Because bikes are not infantry, they are not subject to Righteous Zeal.


2. If I'm selecting bike squads as troops, are they limited to the size listed in the FA slot, or the full ten of the tac squad listing?
They'd be limited to the size of the listing under Fast Attack, but - and call me Black Templar ignorant here - how can you select bike squads as troops?

2b. Which FOC listing should I stick with when upgrading them?(FA listing allows for more power weapons)
See above.


3. Can I put neophytes on bikes?(Not sure if I'd want to, but I'd like to know where my options lie.)
No, as there is no option in the codex for this.


4. If I put a Techmarine on a bike, I'm pretty sure that means no servitors, but would it work/pay off to go for the full servo harness as well?
You could certainly put a techmarine on a bike (as part of his wargear allowance) and still have him lead a unit of servitors. Nothing requires units to be made of homogenous unit types. Because he was attached to the servitors, of course, he would have to move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit (see page 11 of the main rulebook). This would mean that he would be treated as a bike for all purposes (e.g., he would not take Difficult Terrain tests but would take Dangerous Terrain tests when moving through Difficult Terrain), but would be restricted to moving no more than 6" per turn, at least until his last servitor was dead. Nothing wrong with putting a techmarine with a servo harness on a bike either.


5. Can I go with a Chaplain(on bike) as my main HQ slot? I'm under the impression you NEED to have a Captain, but if I can circumvent the 'Cap, I'd do it in a heartbeat. (I know they're not called chaplains/captains, just generalizing)
Yes, you may. There is nothing in the codex that requires you to have a Commander (either a Marshal or a Castellan) in your army.


6. Would a command squad with Infiltrate better pay off out flanking or just cruising up the board?
As a non space marine, non-BT player, I'll leave this one to those with more experience.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

I'm actually under the impression that If you put your commander on a bike, you can select bikers -as- troops. All of a sudden, number 2 seems a little rhetorical. Thanks for your input though!

[Nabterayl]

I'm actually under the impression that If you put your commander on a bike, you can select bikers -as- troops. All of a sudden, number 2 seems a little rhetorical. Thanks for your input though!
That's certainly true of captains under Codex: Space Marines. It is not true of Black Templar commanders.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Gotcha, so the Idea as a whole is pretty much shot. Damn, well thanks anyways.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah, apparently McNeill in his infinite wisdom didn't feel that all-biker Black Templar forces fit the chapter. C:SM allows it because it's intentionally trying to cover the flavor of many different chapters. On the other hand, Black Templar forces are still crazy good in assault thanks to the meaning of Preferred Enemy changing in 5th edition, and there are certainly ways in the BT codex to make in-your-face assault armies. All bikes just isn't one of them.

[Fellend]

yeah bike templars aren't really worth it.

On a sidenote, a chaplain is useless is BT because you get the rerolls from accept any challenge which is the only vow worth taking and you must take one with your emperors.

And since you are forced to make leadership rolls everytime a model dies and not 25% the Captains 10 leadership which he grants to the entire army is in my opinion the best thing in the codex.

Neophytes can't have bikes, And Bikes can't be troops. Even if that was the case, FA bikes get to take 3 power weapons while troops only get one.

Command squads (or cheaper sword brethren) outflanking with a powerfist and melta gun has wielded great results for me. But then again so has rushing straight forward. Depends on what you encounter really, if they reserve it might be good for you to reserve.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Roger that.

The army is my friends, and since he hasn't used them in 7 years, I asked him and they're all mine, albeit for a price. Twenty or so tac marines, 4 bikes, 1 atk bike, an original emperor's champ, 2 rhinos, 4 assault marines, 8 or so termies(most with lightning claws), and a partridge in a pear tree...

In THIS case, would it make more sense to use the rhinos? Just to throw some Sword Brethren or SB termies down the field?

[Nabterayl]

I would certainly use the Rhinos compared to the alternative of walking, yes. It sounds like your friend's collection was built around the idea of everything being either inherently fast or having a transport that could make it fast. Eight terminators with lightning claws is a pretty classic setup for a Land Raider Crusader, that most Black Templar of transports - if he doesn't have one in his collection I bet you that was on his to-buy list at one point. Two Rhinos full of initiates, a single bike squad with attached attack bike, eight terminators in a LRC, an Emperor's Champion with Accept Any Challenge, and an assault squad constitutes a pretty classic Black Templar assault force, I'd say, and it sounds like you're only two models away from that list (the LRC and one additional assault marine, to hit the minimum squad size).

[Fellend]

I personally only have 9 models in each rhino so a twin lightning clawed Marshal can ride with one rhino and the emperor's champion can ride with the other.
Get a landraider crusader, an assault marine and a Marshall (with dual LC) and you are good to go =)

More worthy adds to consider a predator with full las setup. (can't remember the name atm)
More assault marines all with meltabombs
A dread and a drop =)

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Yeah, that all seems like a solid line-up. Love the LRC. It seems to be lacking in the anti-tank/MC department though... The bike squad has two power weapons, a melta and a MM atk bike, would that be too small from anyone's experience?

Not too fond of drop pods though, once they land the opponent gets that 15 vp free, as uncommon as that may be an issue.

A Ven dread with tank hunter is also a viable option though. I think I read somewhere that you force the re-roll on the damage chart, is that true?

[Nabterayl]

A Ven dread with tank hunter is also a viable option though. I think I read somewhere that you force the re-roll on the damage chart, is that true?
Venerable dreads allow you to re-roll damage results on the dread, yes. See page 35 of the Black Templar codex. And yeah, a venerable dreadnought with a twin-linked lascannon and missile launcher with Tank Hunter would be a pretty fearsome anti-vehicle platform.

[Beta_Ray_Bill]

Yeah, I was aware that it was only for the dread. I'm doing most of my posting from work, telemarketing s-s-sucks! Thanks a lot for all the help guys, I think I'll be writing up an army list this evening.

[Renegade]

Pitty you dont like drop pods, the BT ones can fire on the turn they land.

Take a really long time reading through and making a note of the special rules, Footslogging BT is fun, but can be challenging in a world of Mech. They have a few, and work differently to most other SM armies.

The only thing I will add is that you are probably only going to get around 12 months out of the C:BT, as the BT now have the oldest SM codex (GK dont count as the codex is Daemon Hunters and inquisitors are not SM)