Female Space Marine Models

[Chris Copeland]

I was considering creating a chapter of Female Space Marines. However, GW just doesn't have that many great female models. I'd like to end up with something like this female Spartan: http://forevergeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/secondfemalespartan.JPG

So, do any of y'all have any good suggestions for models to use as the basis for this?

Cheers....

PS I won't be using Sisters of Battle minis... I want these to clearly NOT be Sisters of Battle. I'm planning on using Space Marine weapons, backpacks, and other bits... if I could find good female head models I might just use them on space marine bodies (perhaps leave off the shoulder pads)...

[Image]

I've considered this idea in the past to some degree and having considered the GW line, the only answer I could come up with was, of course, SoB. In ensuring that the model has Power Armour but is also distinctly female, the only other option might be Banshees. But that kind of modelling would require total head swaps usually, and depending on gear layout, remodelling weapons, etc.

As it seems you've already decided, going outwards to model systems that are not GW (who just don't seem to have much of an appreciation for the females also fighting in the wars. :P).

Otherwise, looking at plastics, you might consider the female torsos from the Dark Elf and Wood Elf ranges. I think it might look a bit silly all put together, but it all depends on how distinctly female you want to make them.

One other thought, I can't recall the studio, but I do know that one studio released images of female heads that it produces to be used in 40k. Let me see if I can find that if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

Chapter House studio releases the female heads, can be seen in this thread on page 2 of their genestealer heads announcement: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=5248&page=2 (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=5248&page=2)

[fuzzbuket]

normal marines +Gs fa a breast plate 9dont do boob cups but like a bump on the chest) look @ the female marines flame war/ thread for more deatils

for heads normal marine heads (possibly slimmed an dhir) or for bare heads WE/DE fantasy seems a good bet!

[lobster-overlord]

Urban Mammoth/iKore VOID 1.1/Urban Warfare model like has had a ton of females in armor that could be tapped for this. Also, their plastics for the VOID Box set are pretty thin compared to space marines and could also work as a good base to start.

John .m>can you tell I used to play VOID?

[Subject Keyword]

I'd like to end up with something like this female Spartan: http://forevergeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/secondfemalespartan.JPG


Um... She's too cool to be a Space Marine. You should make up something new to do with an aesthetic like that.

[crazyredpraetorian]

Female Space Marines creep me out. Clowns give some people the willies, for me it's female Space Marines.

[lobster-overlord]

There's a whole other thread about the virtues of Female Marines... how about we leave those comments for that thread, and keep this thread for its intended purpose... to provide info for someone that actually wants to make them.


There is the female medic/hospitaler figure from the Witch Hunters army that is covered in armor. It might make a good Chaplain or Apoth/Sang Preist (if BA is your speed).

John M>

[eldargal]

Chapter House Studios (is that theright name?) have released some female guard heads, they could be used for marines too. In terms of amour, my own personal choice is to leave it unchanged as SM armour is much larger than SoB power armour. But if you really want to change it, I think GS torso modifications are your best bet.

[Commissar Lewis]

I had a similar idea after hearing a female NPC in Fallout 3 remark "it isn't called the Sisterhood of Steel" in regards to her having to prove her sniping abilities, which gave me an idea for a FSM chapter - the Sisterhood of Steel.

However I can barely afford to support and expand my Guard army, let alone start a new army.

On topic, though. maybe using a file to slim down regular SM power armor would work. Failing that, there are a lot of other miniature companies out there that I'm sure would carry something that would work. The coolminiornot store is good to browse.

[Ssyrie]

I remember finding this pic a long time ago: http://www.coolminiornot.net/159605

The description says it's 200mm (about 8 inches), but it's still really nice work.

[Melissia]

Really just female heads on Space Marine armor is good enough. Despite what many people believe, the boob cups aren't necessary for the normal female anatomy (Even for particularly endowed indivdiuals, it's nowhere enough to need the sisters' boob cups). Most of these people fail at anatomy.

[eldargal]

The best excuse for it I've found was that it was stylised musculature armour, similar Greek an Roman muscle cuirasses. For SoB it is to show the whole 'women at arms' thing, for FSM just showing off I guess.
Still not putting breasts on my Space Kittens.


Really just female heads on Space Marine armor is good enough. Despite what many people believe, the boob cups aren't necessary for the normal female anatomy (Even for particularly endowed indivdiuals, it's nowhere enough to need the sisters' boob cups). Most of these people fail at anatomy.

[Mike X]

I remember finding this pic a long time ago: http://www.coolminiornot.net/159605

The description says it's 200mm (about 8 inches), but it's still really nice work.

That pose just screams of "b*tch".

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Have to say i have a freind that would make a whole army of Female SM's if he could, i like the pose, and he'd go nuts if only he could do conversions himself.

[navajas]

Add "Doctor Thunder" to your female space marine searches. He was part of the (I believe) defunct Phoenix Club who made lots of female conversions. Thunder made at least two full size (actually quite large) female space marine armies and laid out pretty clear examples of how to do it. He's a nice guy and I'm pretty sure he'd give you a hand / encouragement if you asked.

The armies were a sort of lavender color and (the better looking in my opinion) Black Widows chapter were predictably black, white and red.

EDIT: Oh, here, the Black Widows. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/213002.page

[Chris Copeland]

Really just female heads on Space Marine armor is good enough. Despite what many people believe, the boob cups aren't necessary for the normal female anatomy (Even for particularly endowed indivdiuals, it's nowhere enough to need the sisters' boob cups). Most of these people fail at anatomy.

I agree that it's unnecessary to add the boobs... however, stylisticly, the boobs clearly indicate the models are female... it's just a visual clue that says, "this model is female."

Consider the picture of the female Spartan... it could have been a flat carapace... but sometimes we use unnecessary flourishes in art to make our points...

cheers...

[Melissia]

Even if you intend to do it, you don't have to do it as stupidly blatant as the Sisters' chestplate.

[Chris Copeland]

Even if you intend to do it, you don't have to do it as stupidly blatant as the Sisters' chestplate.

Fair. To me it is akin to Melodrama. In melodramas actors use visual clues to represent things. The villain is given a twirly black moustache. The heroine gets long blond tresses. These visual markers are part of the history of that form of theatre and audiences quickly identify the characters in melodramas based on said visual clues.

I could just put female heads on Space Marine torsos. Clearly, the power armor would hide any gender distinctions. Heck, I could make it easy on myself and just make them all have helmets and then just TELL people that there are women in the armor. I don't think that would be as visually or artisticly interesting, though. I want an army that makes people instantly know they are looking at female space marines. "Oh, cool! Those are Women Space Marines!" would be the instant reaction I was looking for. Slimmer waists, breast plates, and long hair are instant cultural indicators that you are looking at a female mini... so I definitely think I'll put busts on them...

[Melissia]

Just so long as they are tastefully done. I don't like the ones the Sisters have, they're just too much.

[Maugatar]

Hi Guy sI just want to go slightly off topic, to just say "Nice one" I haven't used a 40K/Fantasy forum for years, and to be honest when i saw the topic Female Space marines it made my blood run cold, not because i think its a bad idea far from it.

The reason fro the terror was that i used tobe a member of Librarium online (anyone who frequents that forum will realise why i'm no loger a member) and the last time female space marines were even mentioned, it resulted in a 100+ post long flame war about how it wold never happen why, who, etc etc. No Modelling info was discussed only a massive argument by narrow minded hyper purists

Guy i want to say thanks, i don't want to sound arrogant but the maturity of the discussions posted have made me want to stay using this forum.

Nice one

[Melissia]

We had a fifty page relatively civil discussion about it a few months ago, but it's pretty much an unspoken truce saying "no, let's not get into THAT again."

[Just_Me]

We had a fifty page relatively civil discussion about it a few months ago, but it's pretty much an unspoken truce saying "no, let's not get into THAT again."

Actually, that thread DID remain remarkably civil. Despite the strong differences of opinion it stayed primarily above board, and there were even some very interesting discussions. Nevertheless, I for one have no desire to repeat that any time soon...

On the original subject, I for one would suggest simply using standard space marine bodies, as the sheer bulk of astartes power armor would completely conceal basic shape, not to mention the modified physique of the astartes themselves. If you really want to go with something more along the lines of the image you showed, I think the early suggestions of modifying Eldar and/or Dark Eldar female torsos would be the way to go.

Personally that direction for female armor doesn't fit my tastes, it looks impractical, and I prefer a more pragmatic and functional look on my few female soldiers. I can see why it works for certain units (such as sisters) who purposefully try to exaggerate their feminine characteristics for symbolic reasons, but otherwise it just seems strange to me.

[Subject Keyword]

I've always liked the armor from Mass Effect.
It flexible and tactical and energy based rather than just being plating. It also doesn't have outrageous boob cups.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/mass%20effect%20female%20shepard/silversorrow/MercenaryFemale-LightMediumHeavy.jpg

[navajas]

Just so long as they are tastefully done. I don't like the ones the Sisters have, they're just too much.

The thing is sculpted armor and fashion is almost ALWAYS over done for effect. This isn't just in miniature, but throughout history. Men certainly didn't need cod pieces that big, maybe one in 1000 roman officers looked that good in the buff, and there isn't a suit coat made on Earth that doesn't have shoulder pads. It was and is done for effect. We also shouldn't underestimate the psychological effect of something so overtly feminine, traditionally something seen as nurturing, cloaking a person intent on doing you horribly painful violence. Take something that looks like a fertility figure, give it a gun, and have it smile as it sets you on fire and you've got the makings of a wicked primal nightmare.

Add in that to see ANY feature with detail in miniature requires it to be over-sized, from huge heads and hands, to comically massive pauldrons, helmets and weapons, and you've got a perfect storm for representing female warriors with irrationally sculpted armor.

[Commissar Lewis]

While the SoB boob cups were a tad big, it was more akin IMO to comic books' Most Common Superpower than anything else. Because the demographic is mostly male, and males like boobs. They are one of the most awesome things in existence; right up there with french fries, alcohol, Oreo milkshakes, and the musical stylings of Ronnie James Dio.

Yeah I do tend to spout off idiotic things; part of my charm. :cool:

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

While the SoB boob cups were a tad big, it was more akin IMO to comic books' Most Common Superpower than anything else. Because the demographic is mostly male, and males like boobs.
I love boobs and hate silly looking armor. Where does that put me?

[navajas]

I love boobs and hate silly looking armor. Where does that put me?

If you hate silly looking armor you're playing the wrong game.

Come on, sculpted boob plates are no different, nor any sillier than; helmets as tall, or longer, than the torsos of the people wearing them; than terminator models of marines whose bodies could not POSSIBLY fit in them; than naked heads obviously BIGGER than the helmets they are meant to wear.

This is NOT, and has never been intended to be, a realistic medium people.

[Melissia]

And I give a crap how? Oh wait I don't. I still want it done tastefully. It's not like they draw Space Marines with codpieces bigger than their ridiculous shoulder plates to try and show how manly they are. The Sisters of Battle models have apparently bigger, fuller breasts than Slaaneshi daemons, and I seriously hope I don't have to tell you why I find that frustrating, infuriating, and STUPID.

[navajas]

And I give a crap how? Oh wait I don't. I still want it done tastefully. It's not like they draw Space Marines with codpieces bigger than their ridiculous shoulder plates to try and show how manly they are. The Sisters of Battle models have apparently bigger, fuller breasts than Slaaneshi daemons, and I seriously hope I don't have to tell you why I find that frustrating, infuriating, and STUPID.

I didn't say you cared. You obviously don't. I wasn't even quoting you.

The Sororitas as a whole don't have huge breasts. Look at the Repentia. Pretty standard miniature scale boobs. Their Battle Sister armor may, arguably, have bigger scale boobs and I've explained why: It's big bulky power armor. To convey their femininity in such big bulky armor, their models have big bulky breasts. As far as fantasy models go, they aren't even that bad, and despite assertions, are no where near the size of their pauldrons.

Speaking of pauldrons, males with huge shoulders are far more analogous to females with huge boobs than are males with huge cod pieces. It is typically only western European puritan cultures that over sex breasts, and consistently, erroneously, compare them to a phallus. The models do not not have huge camel toes, they have larger (and in terms of armor, at best useless, and most likely counter productive) molded breast cups, very much like every single male models' massive shoulders. Such padded over sized shoulders are an overt display of hyper masculinity in exactly the same way as padded breasts display hyper femininity.

This is all pretty standard anthropology/sociology/psychology here by the way. It's not as if this should be revelation.

[Melissia]

RE: Boob cups

Which, again, I disagree with the necessity of and think it looks moronic. The huge shoulder pads actually make a slight amount of sense, because their rounded shape would help deflect some of the power of shots a bit better. It reminds me of tower shields, how they were quite commonly curved in shape rather than flat The boob cups make no such sense, and serve no purpose except to look stupid.

[navajas]

I think we've both made our opinions pretty clear so I won't bother to respond to that again.

I wish the poster well in his modeling endeavors.

[Sir Biscuit]

Oh come on, I can't be the only person who sees a clear connection between this:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/10459/840914-sister_of_battle_color_large.jpg
And this:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4057/1879victoriandresses188.jpg

Honestly, I think the Victorian/Gothic stylings of the Sisters is one of the most interesting things about them. Let's be honest, 40k is all about the rule of cool. Powerfists are not there because they are an effective weapon, they exist so we can punch tanks to death. SM shoulder pads aren't big because of some defensive benefit, they're big because it looks cool.

SoB wear armored battle dresses and iron corsets because that is awesome.

And I for one am glad they put boobs on the armor of the model. I am well aware that a woman in any actual armor would be androgynous, but if the models are all androgynous, what's the point of a female army? I don't want a bunch of bikini-armored babes (and that's not what we've got...) but I don't think it's a problem if they are obviously female.

Even the breast size is not, I don't think, a big deal. Scale is pretty f*%#$@ in 40k. I mean, have you ever looked at the size of someone's hands? I agree that in the artwork it could probably be toned down, but I don't have a problem with the models.

[Zoa]

RE: Boob cups

Which, again, I disagree with the necessity of and think it looks moronic. The huge shoulder pads actually make a slight amount of sense, because their rounded shape would help deflect some of the power of shots a bit better. It reminds me of tower shields, how they were quite commonly curved in shape rather than flat The boob cups make no such sense, and serve no purpose except to look stupid.

GW is a model selling company not a game design company, it would be more realistic and respectful if Sister's power armour was less sexualized and more like marine armour but then they would not be different enough as a model to justify the cost of production and the Sisters of Battle would not exist at all.

All of the rules and background material are just a means to sell models from GWs perspective. I would not be surprised is the entire reason for the existences of the Sister's was written into the game solely so they could justify selling that exact type of model.

They therefor serve the purpose of selling models to the type of people that style appeals to, you make not likely it (to be honest I don't either. I like corsets and goth fashion but models like those are one of the reasons I don't tell everyone I play 40k) but without it your army wouldn't exist in the first place.

[Melissia]

GW is a model selling company not a game design company, it would be more realistic and respectful if Sister's power armour was less sexualized and more like marine armour but then they would not be different enough as a model to justify the cost of production and the Sisters of Battle would not exist at all.
The godaweful corsets and boob cups are not the only difference between armor style of Marines and Sisters. Ap[arently you haven't actually looked at the models if you honestly believe that.


Oh come on, I can't be the only person who sees a clear connection between this:
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/10459/840914-sister_of_battle_color_large.jpg
And this:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4057/1879victoriandresses188.jpg

... and you're acting somehow as if this is a good thing? These are Sisters of Battle, not primpy prissy voluptuous victorian nobility. Want to talk about rule of cool?

Alicia Dominica and her Daughters of the Emperor fought the Black Templars to a standstill protecting Goge Vandire. That is to say, an untried group of warriors with no real wartime experience (Even if they were skilled) faced off against an old and veteran Space Marine chapter and fought so well against them that the Marines could not get to Vandire, for months. That's just ****in' awesome. And what makes it even MORE cool is that when given proof that Vandire is the true traitor, she walks up to him, pronounces his sentence, and then without hesitation she cuts him in half.

Saint Praxedes stood her ground against a Hive Tyrant, one of the most deadly creatures in the galaxy and capable of taking on just about any other single creature in existence one on one and standing a good chance at killing it. And she won, then led her sisters on a campaign to stop a Tyranid invasion and sacrifice her and her subbordinates in order to save billions. And GW hints taht they are still on that world, still fighting the Tyranids. THAT is cool.

That comparison in your post? Not cool. The soft, wimpy nobility in that image is not the Sisters of Battle. The Sisters don't stand around and look pretty, or daintily comb their hair, or keep pretty little fans in their hands just in case they might faint from a case of the vapors.

None of that.

They kick *** in the name of the Emperor. They inspire the faithful to greater acts of glory and valor, they kill their enemies without hesitation, and they don't do it hiding behind a rock. They get up close and personal and look their enemies in the face, shoot them and set them on fire and rip apart their tanks with melta, chop their enemies to ribbons with the nasty Sarissa attachments instead of simple bayonets. They wield the huge two-handed eviscerator weapon and tear apart tanks with a friggin' oversized chainsword.

And at the end of the day, when the fires of purgation are dying down, and the darkness of the night covers the sky they humbly thank the Emperor for their victory, and he smiles upon them, the shining examples of what is best about humanity.

That second image, it's just a pretty little image of pretty little women doing pretty little things. It's not something that I would ever want compared to the Sisters of Battle. Ever.

[eldargal]

My main problem with the SoB armour is the lakc of subtlety. I get the need for exaggerated proportions at 28mm scale, but why have that stupid reinforcement ribbing on the breast cups, that just looks tacky. As for the corsets, by all means have a corset vibe but try and make it look more like a power armoured corset (with tha tubing stuff you get on SM tummies) and less like she is wearing a cheap leather dominatrix corset over her power armour. Sublte > Obvious.

[Commissar Lewis]

Aw, but I like obvious. I'm not a man of subtlety; I'm more of a Jayne Cobb-type guy. Except I don't have a gun named Vera yet.

[eldargal]

Do you have village named after you, and a heroic song?


Aw, but I like obvious. I'm not a man of subtlety; I'm more of a Jayne
Cobb-type guy. Except I don't have a gun named Vera yet.

[Commissar Lewis]

Not yet. I'm working on that. Also I don't look good with a goatee.

And glad someone caught the reference! High five, eldargal!

[Aenir]

...snip... Alicia Dominica and her Daughters of the Emperor fought the Black Templars to a standstill protecting Goge Vandire. That is to say, an untried group of warriors with no real wartime experience (Even if they were skilled) faced off against an old and veteran Space Marine chapter and fought so well against them that the Marines could not get to Vandire, for months. That's just ****in' awesome. And what makes it even MORE cool is that when given proof that Vandire is the true traitor, she walks up to him, pronounces his sentence, and then without hesitation she cuts him in half....snip...

I have a question about that, isnt that a bit less impressive (the BT part) as they are a scattered chapter instead of say, the Ultras or Wolves? (more so than usual) and then in the GK Omni they got slaughtered by the GK then the IG who the Rogue inquisitor got to turn traitor?

I apologize for the questions, only one sister player here (who went SM/Sisters/Daemonhunters/BT) in that order and hes not too good IG with any of them :eek:

[Melissia]

The Black Templars wer trying to take back the Emperor's palace on Holy Terra from Goge Vandire. I think they'd rather devote a crapton of resources to that task.

Also it wouldn't be impressive to beat down the sissy boy ultras. And I'd rather just party with the wolves than fight them. And the Grey Knights could kick ANY marine chapter's ***, from ultras to BTs to SWs to DAs to BAs to anything else. Because they're the friggin' Grey Knights. Who, by the way, are on pretty good terms with the Sisterhood.

[eldargal]

Rather you than me, I think Space Wolves would smell of meat and poo, if dogs are anything to by. Unless they are forced to take a bath and be shampood' regularly.


The Black Templars wer trying to take back the Emperor's palace on Holy Terra from Goge Vandire. I think they'd rather devote a crapton of resources to that task.

Also it wouldn't be impressive to beat down the sissy boy ultras. And I'd rather just party with the wolves than fight them.

[Aenir]

I know that but in the novel they fought and only a squad or 2 (I cant remember off the top of my head) got up close and messed em up, So either there is a SEVERE power disparity (~10 GK vs a whole chapter) or I think it just changes from author to author :)

Gah I would love to ally your sisters in battle, I bet it would be da*n scary :)

[Melissia]

It does vary from author to author yes, but there IS a huge disparity between the Grey Knights and various other chapters. As Space Marines are to normal humans, thus Grey Knights are to Space Marines.


Eldargal: Power Armor is described as smelling like the sweat and flatulence of tens of thousands of years of wearers (said by Amberley Vail in the Ciaphas Cain series). I doubt a Sister would mind too much the smell of a Space Wolf.

[Aenir]

It does vary from author to author yes, but there IS a huge disparity between the Grey Knights and various other chapters. As Space Marines are to normal humans, thus Grey Knights are to Space Marines.


Eldargal: Power Armor is described as smelling like the sweat and flatulence of tens of thousands of years of wearers (said by Amberley Vail in the Ciaphas Cain series). I doubt a Sister would mind too much the smell of a Space Wolf.

yes but 1000+s of marines vs 10? :D

anyway, I digress :D

What color do you paint your sisters (I was thinking of allying some WH/DH) + Wheres your Character for the rules contest?

[Zoa]

The godaweful corsets and boob cups are not the only difference between armor style of Marines and Sisters. Apparently you haven't actually looked at the models if you honestly believe that.


I mean not sexualized, if they were not sexualized in any way (even if it was something other than that particular design) they would not exist. Way to quote mine, my point is far more obvious if you would look at the rest of my post and before you tell me what you have are have not read do not presume to tell me what i have or have not seen.

[eldargal]

Thin I'll have my sisters perfume theirs when I start on my army.:rolleyes:


It does vary from author to author yes, but there IS a huge disparity between the Grey Knights and various other chapters. As Space Marines are to normal humans, thus Grey Knights are to Space Marines.


Eldargal: Power Armor is described as smelling like the sweat and flatulence of tens of thousands of years of wearers (said by Amberley Vail in the Ciaphas Cain series). I doubt a Sister would mind too much the smell of a Space Wolf.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

From someone who studies Medievil History for fun, yes i really do it for fun. I can tell you that in early years knights armour would most definetly not smell like roses, if you were in the field and had to pee, then you just did that, and thank yourself that your armour wasnt water-proof. As for number 2's, well do you know how long it takes to unclip and take off just the lower part of your plate armour, trust me they did that in there armour too if they must.
Under there armour they wear, either pants or like a cloth jumpsuit...name slips my mind atm, then over that leathers, then chain and followed by plate. Its a nightmare to put on and if your in a hurry too take it off goodluck there.

Modern power armour has waste recycling in built to cover that, even SoB would too, so thoiugh it may smell of sweat, im sure in part of there many prairs, cleansing there weapons and armour would be a daily ritual.
So Sob could or may be the only ones who's armour would be less repugnant to those around you. SM's well id say there used to it after that many years, and seriously who in the there right mind is going to say "excuse me (insert SM or SoB) coudl you take a few steps away you really stink"?

SM would just look down with contempt and SoB would see that as blasmephy and shoot them.

[Commissar Lewis]

Ah, the wonders of power armor. Wonder if the T-51b had built in recycling systems...

If not then West Tek dropped the ball on that one.

[Aenir]

you are forgetting the CSM, It took me Eons to get it this way for CHAOS!! :D
*Stab*

[eldargal]

So, we've established that Space Marines most likely smell remarkably similar to those people who most like to play Space Marines?

I actually own a couple of harnesses of plate armour, and I have to say that the padding gets smelly after a day in it, but thankfully tou can take it out and wash it. Also, thank the Emperor for Chanel No. 5. And Jicky.

[Commissar Lewis]

Zing! Well done eldargal!

Yeah half of the reason I stopped going into the local GW store is because some people smelled like rotten food had sex with a pile of feces. Strong analogy, but it was BAD.

Also there was this one douche there I wanted to stab because he was such a ****, but that 'tis a story for another time.

[Chris Copeland]

I maintain that the unnecessary breasts are simply artistic placeholders that say, "This model is female." It is no more necessary or realistic than the curly mustache of a villain in a Melodrama play. To me, the busts quickly identify the models as feminine... that they are overdone is akin to comic book breasts being overdone... it is silly but it is also part of the genre...

PS: What is not tasteful about huge bosoms? Should we look askance at real women with unrealistic busts or only save our distain for 28mm models? :P

PPS The above "PS" is rhetorical. I know how silly the bosoms are throughout sci-fi/fantasy genres...

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Eldargal did you say you actually own a few sets of platemail?? how much would that cost to buy me one?
Back on track, i agree that yes there breast size on the armour is a bit to big for dimensions, though i cant imagine the mechanicus when designing the armours on Mars, custom making them to each individual Battle Sister. Id say one size fits all armour, with dimensions hopefully proportional to the recipient Sister.

I think that IMO that it defines them as female very easily, and they do look good as a miniature, i would not want GW to go vanilla like SM's and just make there armour like them...boring, then people would really complain there just female Space Marines.

But i agree that the armour needs a redesigh on the corset, but out of all the SoB miniatures that is over proportional is the current Cannoness. Her breasts are to large, torso armour looks crap and though im not sculptor im sure it could have been done better with time ad effort.

Over all i do like there armour, but would like to see more done with it. I wouldnt complain with GW if they chose not to redo it, except maybe the Cannoness and Repentia Mistress needs to look less bondage queen.

[DarkLink]

I know that but in the novel they fought and only a squad or 2 (I cant remember off the top of my head) got up close and messed em up, So either there is a SEVERE power disparity (~10 GK vs a whole chapter) or I think it just changes from author to author :)


Since every single Grey Knight is a psyker, and equipped with far more potent weapons and armor than standard Space Marines, there is a big difference. To put it in perspective, Grey Knight Terminators are psykers on par with SM Librarians. Yeah, 2 wound, tons of uber-killy psychic power librarians. Our elite choices are your armie's HQ choices. We're just that awesome.

It's a little late, but I can't help but brag about how awesome Grey Knights are:rolleyes:.

[Aenir]

but still a whole chapter? :D

[Melissia]

I maintain that the unnecessary breasts are simply artistic placeholders that say, "This model is female."

And it looks stupid, so it doesn't really matter what it's intended to do :P

[Melissia]

[...] Repentia Mistress needs to look less bondage queen.
Is that even possible? The entire idea behind the Repentia Mistress is full of lesbian bondage innuendo.

A mistress wielding two whips and commanding a squad of mostly naked women.

It's kinda disgustingly blatant.

[Commissar Lewis]

Is that even possible? The entire idea behind the Repentia Mistress is full of lesbian bondage innuendo.

A mistress wielding two whips and commanding a squad of mostly naked women.

It's kinda disgustingly blatant.


Yet kinky and sexily blatant! Haha, sorry don't mind me; I'm so tired it ain't funny. Yet I can't fall asleep. Sleep schedule's like the Emilie Autumn song 4 O'Clock.

[Melissia]

Yes, it's kinky. And therein lies the problem.

[rbryce]

victorian dress and sisters armour being similar? nahhh!(lol) thats a good pic comparison there, as to prissy victorian women, there were a lot less than youd think! the victorian era was the time of awakening for women, feminist movements were founded, the empire was lead by a strong queen, women were more independant. even in the working classes women were strong figures(id like to see ANYONE on the internet forums survive working in a cotton mill at that time, yet the workforce was predominantly femaleat a time when the average life expectancy in manchester was just 24, the lowest in britain since the black death). i honestly have no idea what the US was up to at that time(other than the world fair, but everyone and his dog did one of those), but in britain it was hard (i presume equally in the states, but i just dont know) to live, much harder than anything we can imagine.

[harrybuttwhisker]

come on whats wrong with a bit of kinkyness? they are just models after all. If we were worried about enforcing negative ideas in young fragile minds then the whole imperium of man goes out the window. Its based on a fascist military junta with a penchant for ethnic cleansing and xenocide.

All thats happened is that the designers have gone, hmm we appear to have a lot of horny teenage boys involved in the hobby, waht can we sell them? I know how about some pseudo lesbian bondage porn.

All companies appeal to there market demographic.

I have yet to see a female stripper in the chippendales or a demand to include a few fat balding middle age guys just to make sure they dont create body dismorphia images in men. Nope they just pack in as many muscle bound, huge wang packing muscled he gods dripiing in oil as is humanly possible.

In terms of the sculpts yes with the advancement of technique, yes I believe a sleeker more feminine shape could be achieved and hopefully this will be taken into account we they get re-done.

In terms of there fluff and imagery, yes certain models make look a lil kinky, but when you read things like faith and fire or the ciaphas cain book that features SoB (cant remember the one) they are potrayed as strong independent women, capable of defending there beliefs without having to rely on men, sharing a common purpose and belief whilst retaining there own individual personality and identity.

Surely this is the ethos of sisterhood, equality and independence that feminism looked to advance. Though I am a guy so probably going to get hung, drawn and quartered for suggesting such a thing.

The problem with GW producing female space marines that I can see are:

1)conflicts with an existing range of power armoured women, twice the set up cost for same financial return.

2)overriding existing fluff that seems pretty conclusive in only taking males to become space marines (though this hasn't stopped GW before).

I think problem number one is where the real sticking point would be, while SoB exist I cannot see GW thinking it to be a good move to do female space marines on a financial basis.

To summarise, yes sculpts could do ith being more feminine and yes expanded in number perhaps via the imperial guard range. I don't think GW will do female space marines. I would have no problem with anyone regardless of gender representing it on the table using appropriate miniatures. I don't think GW models of women are designed to create negative perception of women.

Thats my more than two pennyworth, and remember people "it's only a model" lmao

[Melissia]

come on whats wrong with a bit of kinkyness?

Sisters of Battle, not Sisters of Whoredom.

Would you also suggest a giant mechanical wang be attached to the crotches of Space Marines with a Prince Albert iin order to be kinky with those models?

[Commissar Lewis]

Not gonna lie, that'd be hilarious to see Space Marines with power-armor wangs!

Gives new meaning to the "servo arm" for Techmarines!

[Lerra]

I now have a horrible idea for Slaaneshi chaos marines. The Prince Albert is great touch.

[Chris Copeland]

And it looks stupid, so it doesn't really matter what it's intended to do :P

I disagree... at least, I don't think it would look any sillier than the whole overblown, overdone, stylized 40K universe. GW certainly isn't going for realism anywhere in this universe full of Space Orks, Space Hobbits, super-sado-mascochists, Bulging overdone muscles, little tiny heads atop giant sets of battle armor, and all the rest...

The thing about science fiction, or space opera, is that it always pulls from contemporary images: so we have a universe full of sneering blue blood fops (the Space Elves... I mean, Eldar), Taoist Monks/Communists (the Tau), over the op Religious Zealots (the Inquisition), mindless bullies with cockney accents (the Space Orks), loads of muscle bounds Rambos (the Catchetans), Russians (those other IG folk)... some power-armored boobs actually fall lower on the "looks silly scale" that many of those things.

One more thing: I LOVE the overdone look of the 40k universe. It is cartoonesque and it amuses me.

Peace. Chris

[harrybuttwhisker]

If your looking for male kinky should I point out the male dark eldar wyches in battle thongs or perhaps the many slaaneshi heroes in stockings and various other drag paraphanalia. Or is it considered ok for male miniatures to be kinky but not female?

[Nabterayl]

Would you also suggest a giant mechanical wang be attached to the crotches of Space Marines with a Prince Albert iin order to be kinky with those models?
It's actually shaped like a little hammer ;)

@harrybuttwhisker - to rephrase what Mel and eldargal have been saying from the beginning, nothing is wrong with a bit of kinkyness. The sculpt doesn't have to be "wrong" in order for people to feel like it doesn't fit well with the concept of the organization.

In other words, this is like somebody saying, "Okay, I like the fluff behind orks, but did they really have to sculpt them all two feet tall and thin as sticks?" It misses the point to say to somebody like that, "Well, if you read the fluff, orks are always portrayed as tough and really intimidating, even if the models are skinnier than twigs and only come up to the knee of an Imperial Guardsman."

[Melissia]

The corsets don't even fit in, stylistically, with the rest of the armor, nevermind with the Sisters. It sticks out and ends up looking silly. Yes, it's science fiction, yes, it's stylized, no, it's still stupid even compared to the other stylized sci-fi stuff in there. Were it on Dark Eldar, it would make sense. Dark Eldar are hedonists, they torture people in more and more extreme and hedonistic ways, then eat their souls to appease the god/dess of pleasure, Slaanesh. They are part of an inhuman and incomprehensible culture and are each individually psychically capable. Their armor stylistically reflects this and their inhuman nature quite well.

Sisters of Battle are not Dark Eldar. They are not hedonists, they are not whores, they are not dominatrices, they are warriors, soldiers, paladins, knights of the Imperium and the greatest and best of human soldiers. Their armor reflects this-- except for the torso.

[harrybuttwhisker]

For those who actually read my post they will have noted that yes I think the models can be improved and why I thought it unlikely that we see female spacemarines. I also outlined why I thought there was no inherent malice behind said sculpts.

However arguing that OMG! sculpts are evilz cos iz bit kinky is ridiculous. That was what I was highlighting, there are so many controversial aspects to the fluff of 40k and "kinky" models in both genders that it is a ridiculous measure for the validity of a model.

There is nothing inherently evil or bad about the sculpts, they are decent quality, reflect the art work and there design was limited by the casting ability at the time, notice I also said I hoped new sculpts would improve on this.

However trying to say a miniature is "bad" because it is a kinky female model, yet not decrying male miniatures of a similar type smacks of sexism hiding in the facade of neo-feminism. As we all know discrimination of any kind is wrong and yes can be perpetrated by minoritys against the majority, as well as the weak against the powerful.

The correct argument is about wether the models fit the design ethos and the background, not just its silly because it is kinky.

Having already said I thought the models could be better I was in fact agreeing with the likes of eldar gal and melissa, what I disagree with is the anti-male sexist undercurrent that seems to have seeped into the discussion.

Im all for space marines with mega-wangs after all who doesnt look forward to a future of genetic enhancement lmao!

[Melissia]

For someone that whines about others not reading his posts, you should read the posts you respond to more carefully as well. I never said that kinky is "evil", nor was that my intent. I said it looked stupid, and only said that in the context of the Sisters of Battle. It does not fit at all with either the rest of the armor (hell even the boob-cups at least look like armor, even if they're ugly), and it does not fit in with the concept of the Sisters of Battle.

I never bashed males, I never said anything sexist, there is no anti-male undertone here, and I think huge mechanical wangs on Space Marine models would clash with the Space Marine concept just as much as I think the corsets and boob cups do with the Sisters of Battle.

[rbryce]

i think we're drifting again. i will chime in though and say wearing a corset doesnt make you a whore/hedonist/BDSM fan etc, etc. That is a blanketing claim, and not right for the most part, hell, my missus wears a corset, shes no whore. People do wear them for their historical value, to remember the days of old, to train their waists etc. anyway, on topic, has the OP decided on a route to take with his project? i would be interested in what hes come up with tro be honest.

[Melissia]

Yes I'm sure there's places that don't see it, however where I come from corsets (especially combined with whips, high heeled boots, and garter belts) are associated with the BDSM/S&M trade, not with people of "good virtue." like one might expect the Sisters of Battle to be-- described literally as shining examples of all that is good about humanity. It bothers me, regardless of if it's rational or not. I've been study buddies with a couple of those women, I have nothing against them (everyone has to make a living, and people don't really get hurt in any way they don't want to be in that profession)... but by no means should they be associated with the distinctly pure and righteous Sisters of Battle, holy and sanctified women fighting in the name of the Emperor and the Imperial Creed.

[harrybuttwhisker]

Yes, it's kinky. And therein lies the problem.

???? lol what can I say im a forthright pain in the *** speak my mind kind of guy thats trying to defend the ordinary joe who doesn't like the idea of being waxed, applying manscara or wearing a sarong at the beach. lol.

my personal thought on the aesthetic would be more on the lines of a combination of buddhist style robes and lacquered armour similar to samurai armour as this would lend itself to slender armoured figures, without proto-mega jugs (trademark). The robing would allow for a sense of movement on the figure, as well as allowing to keep structural bulk more slender in vital areas as well as keeping a monastic feel to the attire.

The samurai armour aesthetic ties into a life of discipline and martial training.

The buddhist robes reflecting the religous aspects as well as the idea of rebirth/reincarnation inkeeping with the sainthood vibe.

Also the imperium of man is one giant mega-community melting pot of religions and ethnicities so seems appropriate that a galaxy spanning religion would have fused other beliefs and understandings together in its creation.

In ciaphas cain it states the sisters of battle are not forbidden from drinking, gambling or entering carnal relationships, simply that they do not find the time!

[rbryce]

see, theres where i think the problem arises. doesnt have anything to do with the models, but the sensibilties and views from other areas/cultures. as an example, when i look at a battle sister i dont see BDSM queen, but a historically inspired figure of virtue. where-as i guess in some locales(generally religious areas), its seen as hedonism. i guess my view comes from historical figures(Queen Victoria certainly wore one, and definately wasnt hedonistic having been raised by an especially religiously devout mother), where as your view possibly comes from whatever it is that happens where-ever you live(somewhere in the states judging by what ive gathered). its kinda like the cross with legs (forget the actual name, and didnt want to say swastika) in western cultures being associated with the ****s, but in the east is a symbol for peace/well-being etc. its just perspective. All i can really add though, is we are not the designer who sculpted the figures, so we cannot know his/her reasoning for it.

[Melissia]

If the designer were John Blanche as people suggest, I know the reasoning behind it.

Because that's one of his many fetishes which he puts into his (often disturbing) drawings. Grotesquely long legs, thigh-high boots with foot long heels, corsets, etc. I can't even link to some of the examples that come to mind when I think of his artwork, they'd violate this forum's policy on NSFW pictures...


But we should probably get back on topic rather than let me rant about John Blanche's crappy art again...

[Commissar Lewis]

Well I'm gonna pull a "The Dude Clause" here:

"Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man."

I can see where you are coming from, Melissia. I can see how wearing a corset on the outside of power armor would be see as outright stupid and/or Jumping the Shark. At the same time, it all boils down to this: 'tis merely a game.

That said, I'm fan of chicks wearing corsets, mostly cause I have a thing for goth chicks which is what I associate corsets with, not bondage and all that entails.

[eldargal]

I wear stockings with suspenders (garters to you 'merikuns) almost every day, nothing really kinky about them. So long as you wear a dress as well. I don't wear corsets though,they are certainly a bit kinky... Anyway, back on topic.:rolleyes:

[Melissia]

At the same time, it all boils down to this: 'tis merely a game.

A game that I sink lots of time and money into, so don't give me that bull**** :P

That's like someone stepping on your well-painted special cahracter model and smashing the plastic piece, and then saying "it's only a miniature". Yes, it is, but you still have reason to be pissed off at them and want some reparations for that.

[Commissar Lewis]

True, true... point well taken.

[Chris Copeland]

Y'know, the goth-chick look for the Sisters of Battle fits right into this dystopian universe. The oversized busts, silly outfits, ridiculous swords and black-leather swagger presented for the sisters seems perfectly at home in the 40K universe.

I have goth friends. One loves to wear her hair like Betty Paige and wear provacative items. I think it's cool that these Battle Sisters follow a similar ethos and style. The more I think about it, the more I like where the GW folks have taken the line of models...

EVERYTHING in the 40K universe is over-the-top. So, the SoB are over-the-top dominatrixes... that fits right into my idea of religious fanatacism taken too far. It's not hard to envision a Sister Superior disciplining her brood harshly or those same Sisters responding to the discipline with religious fervour.

I also VERY MUCH see the connection that was made between the styles of the SoB's and Victorian fashions.

Bear in mind, this thread was never about the Sisters. It was about creating a Female Space Marine chapter. At some point it went down the road of "should we put boobs on female minis?"... which I guess ultimately led to discussions of the Sisters.

I think that perhaps I won't create a Female Space Marine Chapter. After all, the Sisters are all ready there. They are already CLEARLY female models and fit right into the dark future of the 40k universe... and I like the corsets, long legs, and Betty Paige haircuts...


peace.... Chris

[Melissia]

these Battle Sisters follow a similar ethos

No, the Sisters of Battle are not wimpy pathetic little pale white people wearing all black with too much black eyeliner whining about how life sucks and reading too much Twilight.

Though technically any Twilight is too much Twilight.

[eldargal]

Gothic is not goth. 40k is gothic, not goth. Goths wear corsets and such because the goth movement began in the Victorian era, not because such items are gothic.
SoB are gothic inspired fluff, and should have a more gothic inspired appearance.

[Commissar Lewis]

I don't think all goths are as you described, Mel. And yeah the topic went off the rails on a crazy train (Ozzy reference, hell yeah). Although, yeah Twilight sucks - from merely reading an excerpt somewhere I lost 3 INT and 2 HP.

Crap, I was gonna work in an Iron Maiden reference, but can't come up with anything witty.

[Melissia]

The other definition of "goth" is: "peasant: a crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement".

This is "goth" not "gothic" mind you. The two words are very different. But popular "goth" culture is black, gloomy, and morose by definition, and popular "goth" clothing and makeup style is exactly as I described.

[gorepants]

Gothic is not goth. 40k is gothic, not goth. Goths wear corsets and such because the goth movement began in the Victorian era, not because such items are gothic.
SoB are gothic inspired fluff, and should have a more gothic inspired appearance.

Actually, SB are goth inspired. But not modern goth. Think your early-mid 80s British new wave/post punk/romantic goth scene. A bit of mix of bondage punk and the victorian gothic of bands like the Damned. And a hint of bad-porn nuns (look at the first ever picture of one acing a space marine in Rogue Trader if you don't believe me). But it's not surprsing since the GW guys were role playing nerds back in the 80s (again I point to Rogue Trader era pictures of the GW guys). This was before goth was total gloomy (actually very little of it ever was - listen to the Cure!).


This is "goth" not "gothic" mind you. The two words are very different. But popular "goth" culture is black, gloomy, and morose by definition, and popular "goth" clothing and makeup style is exactly as I described.

Actually, gothic is about dark romance, and, at least in theory, that's what goth are into. Might be stupid, but that's what it's supposed to be (mopey but not gloomy). And bondage. Sometimes anyway. I'd say the modern goth movement is as gothic as gothic revival, that is to say not much if you want to be a purist, but who ever is?

And funnily the romance aspect is what's largely missing from 40k. Lost of space vampires and zombies and demons, but no love. It owes a great stylistic influence to gothic revival but is at it's heart at least as baroque as it is gothic - grossly over top, 'a style characterized by dynamic movement, overt emotion and self-confident rhetoric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque)'. You even see it in the style used to depict the ecclisarchy and what not - the buildings are gothic, and there are skulls, but the excess of characters and movement and cherubim are a bit of a give away.

[OK, this thesis of baroque influences on the 40k universe is a little weak here for the sake of brevity, but I suggest reading the wiki pages on the baroque and the post classical gothic revival that followed it, and for that matter the article on the modern goth movement].

[david5th]

Crap, I was gonna work in an Iron Maiden reference, but can't come up with anything witty.

Who cares about witty -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNQE5wtgIj4

Hive city perhaps?

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

???? lol what can I say im a forthright pain in the *** speak my mind kind of guy thats trying to defend the ordinary joe who doesn't like the idea of being waxed, applying manscara or wearing a sarong at the beach. lol.

my personal thought on the aesthetic would be more on the lines of a combination of buddhist style robes and lacquered armour similar to samurai armour as this would lend itself to slender armoured figures, without proto-mega jugs (trademark). The robing would allow for a sense of movement on the figure, as well as allowing to keep structural bulk more slender in vital areas as well as keeping a monastic feel to the attire.

The samurai armour aesthetic ties into a life of discipline and martial training.

The buddhist robes reflecting the religous aspects as well as the idea of rebirth/reincarnation inkeeping with the sainthood vibe.

Also the imperium of man is one giant mega-community melting pot of religions and ethnicities so seems appropriate that a galaxy spanning religion would have fused other beliefs and understandings together in its creation.

In ciaphas cain it states the sisters of battle are not forbidden from drinking, gambling or entering carnal relationships, simply that they do not find the time!

This is the highest concentration of good points I've ever heard from someone who's user name made me spew Diet Mountain Dew out of my nose.


Who cares about witty -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNQE5wtgIj4

Hive city perhaps?
YES! So awesome.

[Melissia]

(mopey but not gloomy)
No, gloomy is the EXACT word used to describe the "goth subculture" in most dictionaries I've seen :P

Black and red eyeliner, black lipstick, white heat applied to the face, black dyed hair, black clothes with BDSM influenced styles, lots of piercings, and tattoos. That's "goth". And that's just the mainstream version.

http://gothichairstyles.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/man-goth.jpg

That's the extreme version :P

[rbryce]

if i can get my stephen fry on, gothic was used to denote anything done in a non-classical style. mostly in architecture(lack of columns etc) and is in reference to the germanic tribes that aided in the sacking of rome. later it was used to describe works of literature(shelly, byron etc) that broke away from the classical structure of literature, eventually leading to the goth movement in the victorian era which sought to return to better and simpler times(religion was a major factor for this) at about the same time as the arts and crafts movement.these days its used as a name for people of a darker persuasion.(the episode of QI with alll this info produced my second favorite quote. "the difference between gothic and emo is that emos want to kill themselves, Goths want to kill everyone else"). as a side note, i cant think of a single goth that i know(i used to be more into that scene than anything else) likes or have watched twiglet(spelt on purpose) ;)

[Sangre]

This thread's gone Melissia again. By which I mean aggressive, unpleasant and off-topic.

[Melissia]

Shutup, Sangre.

if i can get my stephen fry on, gothic was used to denote anything done in a non-classical style. mostly in architecture(lack of columns etc) and is in reference to the germanic tribes that aided in the sacking of rome. later it was used to describe works of literature(shelly, byron etc) that broke away from the classical structure of literature, eventually leading to the goth movement in the victorian era which sought to return to better and simpler times(religion was a major factor for this) at about the same time as the arts and crafts movement.these days its used as a name for people of a darker persuasion.(the episode of QI with alll this info produced my second favorite quote. "the difference between gothic and emo is that emos want to kill themselves, Goths want to kill everyone else"). as a side note, i cant think of a single goth that i know(i used to be more into that scene than anything else) likes or have watched twiglet(spelt on purpose) ;)

It was mostly the vampire LARPers I refer to, whom themselves are already relatively low on the geek hierarchy (http://www.brunching.com/images/geekchartbig.gif) to begin with for being LARPers but then they also like vampires and twlight and claim to be goth...

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

Um... Back on topic, I think a good looking Female Space Marine Model(title of thread) is taking a helmeted space marine and saying "she has lady bits," or putting a female-looking head on a regular Space Marine body.
If anyone here has ever actually worn a suit of armor, there is plenty of room in the chest plate for breasts or what have you. The extra, hollow room allows the armor to deflect projectiles and blows more easily. If breasts got in the way for some arbitrary reason, I'm sure the Imperium would have no qualms about chopping them off. And I think the drugs they inject them with would nullify any other major physiological differences.
So modeling female marines seems simple to me. The only problem would be people who cared too much about the fluff who would nag you for some reason or other. But you cannot deny an easy and effective conversion...
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/6/13/37886_sm-Space%20Marine%20Female%20Mirage%20Knight%20Freeha nd%20Marble%20Effect%20Custom%20Chapter%20Test%20M odel%20Wip.jpg

[eldargal]

Er, no. If there is space inside armour you are wearing then it doesn't fit properly. Space=room for movement and you do not want your armour moving about when you do. Deflection of missiles is related to the curvature of the armour which is present without any excess space. Historically it was often enhanced by fluting, see pic:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Zbroja_1514.JPG
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/RAMSG_11.jpg
Too large to be embedded.
I own three suits of (well made) armour, all of which have cups* (not like SoB cups, but still) on the breastplate, else I can't fit into them. Flesh, fat and glands only compress so much. Assuming each SoB/FSM is issued their own armour harness (as in, they don't swap suits during their career unless it is destroyed), one images it would be altered to fit or at least chosen to fit as well as possible. I really do know what I'm talking about here, I've grown up around my families suits of armour and had my own since I was little, a rather odd family tradition.:rolleyes:
As for blows, crumple zones might work in a car, but not so much in armour where you want it to survive for more than one blow.
I like that mini though, is it commercially available? My FSMs are just heads on regular SM bodies too, for the record.

Edit: Anyway, I won't post any more off topic stuff, I promise.

*Of course, had I A or B cups I probably wouldn't need them. Girls come in different sizes, shocking as it may seem.


Um... Back on topic, I think a good looking Female Space Marine Model(title of thread) is taking a helmeted space marine and saying "she has lady bits," or putting a female-looking head on a regular Space Marine body.
If anyone here has ever actually worn a suit of armor, there is plenty of room in the chest plate for breasts or what have you. The extra, hollow room allows the armor to deflect projectiles and blows more easily. ]

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

Er, no. If there is space inside armour you are wearing then it doesn't fit properly. Space=room for movement and you do not want your armour moving about when you do. Deflection of missiles is related to the curvature of the armour which is present without any excess space. Historically it was often enhanced by fluting, see pic:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Zbroja_1514.JPG
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/RAMSG_11.jpg
Too large to be embedded.
I own three suits of (well made) armour, all of which have cups* (not like SoB cups, but still) on the breastplate, else I can't fit into them. Flesh, fat and glands only compress so much. Assuming each SoB/FSM is issued their own armour harness (as in, they don't swap suits during their career unless it is destroyed), one images it would be altered to fit or at least chosen to fit as well as possible. I really do know what I'm talking about here, I've grown up around my families suits of armour and had my own since I was little, a rather odd family tradition.:rolleyes:
As for blows, crumple zones might work in a car, but not so much in armour where you want it to survive for more than one blow.
I like that mini though, is it commercially available?


Hmmm... Good points!
I've worn several suits of armor (being the geek that I am) and there were "fluted" areas that left a significant amount of empty air or padding (that could be removed) in front of my chest, with the armor still being tight and unmoving. Of course, I am a skinny person, and my best friends all have teensy boobs, so my perception is a little off.
You're COMPLETELY right about crumple zones being a terrible idea.
If you look at the Space Marine in the picture I posted though, even a heavy set person would have some serious room in that armor (judging by the tiny head and my rudimentary training in proportion as an artist). Removing some cybernetics and whatnot could leave enough room for some "flesh, fat and glands". And if not, well... The Imperium would probably just remove them. Don't they fuse their ribcages? I doubt that's a very gentle process...



*Of course, had I A or B cups I probably wouldn't need them. Girls come in different sizes, shocking as it may seem.
I'm not suggesting that you would, or are planning to do this... But my Breast Cancer advocacy forces me to mention these things everywhere I go, especially to cool people who are large breasted. Stay away from breast reduction surgery. I have had 6 people in my life (three of them family) who have gotten breast reduction surgery for back pain and other issues, and they are 6 of the 7 people in my life who have gotten breast cancer. The surgery is bad news. That's just my little public service announcement (yeah, that's right, I'm one of those dudes running around in pink shirts!)



I like that mini though, is it commercially available?
Unfortunately, no. It's just a conversion.

[harrybuttwhisker]

trust me incorrectly fitting armour is bad, thanks to beer, my friends civil war re-enactment breastplate and a pickaxe handle i learnt this the stupid way :D

[Melissia]

male armor often had a bulge in the front chest area too, in order to try and deflect missiles from the vitals.

[eldargal]

Poot, I'd have bought a few squads.
I think SM style armour would have plenty of room, I think SoB power armour is a smaller design with an aesthetic emphasis on making it bally obvious its a girl wearing it, on account of that whole 'no men at arms' thing.

[Chris Copeland]

The female head stuck atop the Male Space Marine body is just less visually interesting than the clearly female, awesomely goth-inspired, busty Sisters of Battle models. Quite frankly, now that I've thought it through, I'm just going to go with SoBs...

I love that they are already clearly female. I love that they have an interesting background. I dig their goth/dominatrix Batty Page haircuts, their armor that resembles Victorian corsets, and the whole dominatrix/goth vibe the army has had since the jump... (and I mean from the jump: check out the Battle Sister near the end of the original rogue trader book).

[Commissar Lewis]

Actually the barbarian tribe the Goths were badass. Let me thumb through my copy of BADASS right here...

Yep, Alaric the Bold was a Goth and a badass to boot; he sacked Rome.

But yeah, on topic: If I were to make some FSMs I'd slim down the power armor to make it a bit more feminine yet still walking tank-like as power armor is supposed to be, with slight chest cups to make it apparent they ain't scrawny dudes.

[Melissia]

The female head stuck atop the Male Space Marine body is just less visually interesting than the clearly female, awesomely goth-inspired, busty Sisters of Battle models. Quite frankly, now that I've thought it through, I'm just going to go with SoBs...

I love that they are already clearly female. I love that they have an interesting background. I dig their goth/dominatrix Batty Page haircuts, their armor that resembles Victorian corsets, and the whole dominatrix/goth vibe the army has had since the jump... (and I mean from the jump: check out the Battle Sister near the end of the original rogue trader book).


There's a difference between visually interesting and idiotic. I find Space Marine armor to be plenty visually interesting, it has a good style going for it. Sisters of Battle armor does, too, until you look at the torso. At which point it becomes stupid.

I'm sure you do love how they are "clearly female" (IE that the models scream "hey look at my tits I'm a girl"), and the dominatrix crap that doesn't fit in with the holy warrior concept, and whatever else. However, I insist on the FACT that they don't have to be dressed like whores in order to be obviously female. While I'd understand it if the armor had the chest bulge and wasn't so blatant and stupid about it, there's more to being female then having a pair of tits (some men have those, too).

[Chris Copeland]

There's a difference between visually interesting and idiotic. I find Space Marine armor to be plenty visually interesting, it has a good style going for it. Sisters of Battle armor does, too, until you look at the torso. At which point it becomes stupid.

I'm sure you do love how they are "clearly female" (IE that the models scream "hey look at my tits I'm a girl"), and the dominatrix crap that doesn't fit in with the holy warrior concept, and whatever else. However, I insist on the FACT that they don't have to be dressed like whores in order to be obviously female. While I'd understand it if the armor had the chest bulge and wasn't so blatant and stupid about it, there's more to being female then having a pair of tits (some men have those, too).


Wow, Melissia, I think you are being rude. Are there forum rules about this? Do we have moderators? I'm new here so I don't know yet.

You disagree with me so you have to use words like "idiotic," "stupid" and "crap." You must be a BLAST to play with at your local game store! Is the phrase,"hey look at my tits I'm a girl" truly appropriate or necessary? Must you refer to goth inspired designs as being "dressed like whores"?

Like I said, I'm new here. I don't know all the ins and outs of this board yet. Does BoLs have a troll problem? My basic tactic with trolls (folks who are always purposefully spiteful and who post back begatively about EVERYTHING just to get a reaction is "Never feed the trolls." Once you stop feeding the trolls they go away. Are you using spiteful words with me, Melissia, just to get a reaction? If so, please let me know ASAP so I can adjust my behavior accordingly.

Back on topic: after careful consideration I think that the Goth-inspired, corset wearing, Betty Page-haircut, big bosomed awesomeness that is the SoBs is the way to go. Female Space Marines would be cool. However, the SoBs mostly fill that role in this universe. It would be problematic to thin down the waists of 30+ models AND and breast plates to them... so I'll go with the Dominatrix-inspired Sisters who already have bosoms and are already clearly female... no conversion required... cheers... chris

[Sangre]

Wow, Melissia, I think you are being rude. Are there forum rules about this? Do we have moderators? I'm new here so I don't know yet.

You disagree with me so you have to use words like "idiotic," "stupid" and "crap." You must be a BLAST to play with at your local game store! Is the phrase,"hey look at my tits I'm a girl" truly appropriate or necessary? Must you refer to goth inspired designs as being "dressed like whores"?

Like I said, I'm new here. I don't know all the ins and outs of this board yet. Does BoLs have a troll problem? My basic tactic with trolls (folks who are always purposefully spiteful and who post back begatively about EVERYTHING just to get a reaction is "Never feed the trolls." Once you stop feeding the trolls they go away. Are you using spiteful words with me, Melissia, just to get a reaction? If so, please let me know ASAP so I can adjust my behavior accordingly.

Welcome to the lounge. Don't worry about Melissia. She's harmless if you learn how to push the right buttons.

[Nabterayl]

Wow, Melissia, I think you are being rude. Are there forum rules about this? Do we have moderators? I'm new here so I don't know yet.

You disagree with me so you have to use words like "idiotic," "stupid" and "crap." You must be a BLAST to play with at your local game store! Is the phrase,"hey look at my tits I'm a girl" truly appropriate or necessary? Must you refer to goth inspired designs as being "dressed like whores"?

Like I said, I'm new here. I don't know all the ins and outs of this board yet. Does BoLs have a troll problem? My basic tactic with trolls (folks who are always purposefully spiteful and who post back begatively about EVERYTHING just to get a reaction is "Never feed the trolls." Once you stop feeding the trolls they go away. Are you using spiteful words with me, Melissia, just to get a reaction? If so, please let me know ASAP so I can adjust my behavior accordingly.
Hey Chris - I'd like to respond to this, if you can pardon me for derailing the thread yet again, for the greater good of the community. To make it clear where I'm coming from, I say this as somebody who's been reasonably involved in the 40K part of the Lounge, particularly the SoB discussions, and as somebody who values Mel's contributions to the boards. What I'm about to say is my opinion only, and I haven't discussed it with anybody else.

With that in mind, I wouldn't say that BoLS has a troll problem so much as that BoLS has a clash-of-approaches problem. Some folks on the board, like me, like relatively writing long posts that try to be as precise as possible, even if that means we end up writing five paragraphs about a point that is really a sidebar. In general, I'd say Mel falls into this category. Other folks on the board seem to write much shorter posts that focus on their main point and leave it at that. I've observed a number of threads that, to my mind, have devolved into heated discussions not because one person is trolling but because you have one person from approach A talking to another from approach B. Most of the problems I've seen folks have with Mel boil down to that, in my opinion - Mel will post something reasonably precise about a point that is ultimately a footnote to the discussion, somebody else will respond to it in a way that misses, misconstrues, or simply ignores some aspect of its precision, Mel gets frustrated and/or offended at the misconstruction and posts a more forceful version of what she originally posted, the other person gets frustrated and/or offended, and so on. Oftentimes, "more forceful" with Mel means "less precise." For instance, "I don't like [the Sisters' breastplates]" and "I still want it done tastefully" - both statements about her personal opinion - become "the torso ... becomes stupid," which is phrased as (but not, I wager, intended to be) a statement of fact, and thus about your opinion.

I find that she isn't a rude forum denizen unless she's worked up about something, which personally lets me ignore the rudeness that frequently creeps into her colloquies (and when she's worked up about something, she is frequently rude). I chalk it up to the heat of the moment, rather than her considered intentions. When Mel associates corsets with whoring without qualifying the statement as her opinion, I think she's being needlessly parochial, but I feel reasonably confident assuming that what she means to say is


"I associate corsets with kink, which is a component of my opinion that the current Sister of Battle aesthetic sexualizes them in a way that is at odds with and detracts from the rest of their fluff,"

rather than

"Nab, your wife is a whore because she owns expensive well-fitting corsets for period and contemporary dress, and furthermore, you personally are an idiot for not thinking that corsets are inherently tied to whoring."

I wouldn't feel so confident about certain other people I've met on the internet.

[Commissar Lewis]

(some men have those, too).

From what I've seen at my local GW store, indeed they do. And not nice ones, either. Man-boobs never live up to the awesomeness of chick ones...

Though I remember seeing a man on TV that got some implants on a bet.

[Commissar Lewis]

Personally I quite enjoy reading Mel's posts. A far cry better than 97% of all the people on the CE board over at gamefaqs.

[gorepants]

No, gloomy is the EXACT word used to describe the "goth subculture" in most dictionaries I've seen :P

Black and red eyeliner, black lipstick, white heat applied to the face, black dyed hair, black clothes with BDSM influenced styles, lots of piercings, and tattoos. That's "goth". And that's just the mainstream version.

http://gothichairstyles.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/man-goth.jpg

That's the extreme version :P

[more on topic at the bottom of the post!]

*cough* straw man much? *cough*

but, OK, maybe just a cultural difference in the meaning of gloom (not used in the wiki article!:p). The more important point is where the attitude comes from - while part of it is the person, most goths I've know are relatively upbeat people, the gloom is a forced attitude required for their over emphasis on the dark side of victorian gothic romance (and has probably become more import due to media portrayals of goths that caricature this further, cf Noel Fielding's goth server admin in the IT crowd, he is gloomy and a half).

More to the point, the emphasis on the gloomy aspect is relatively recent (as compared to the simple dark aspects), and Sisters of Battle were in 40k from the start (the original art work dates back to at least 87).

Further to this. I think a bit of historicity is required when analysing why SoB look like bondage madams (and there is a difference between them a prostitutes in most case, most of all in dress style!). The style is distinctly British mid 70s-mid 80s sci fi fantasy. This is a period when a lot of sci fi was still extremely sexist as a whole (cf amazon chicks next to spaceships etc).

Rogue Trader was also highly satirical (not very intelligent though, cf Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau - new rules by mkerr for him too), and borrowed freely from accepted tropes, meaning that things did not make 'sense', but there was usually a reason for each thing.

The main tropes for the SoB were the naughty-nun and the strict-nun (both are really aspects of the same thing, and both ancient concepts probably stemming from a male desire for that which they cannot have - John Blanche, I'm looking at you). Why these in 40k? In the UK, years of Benny Hill, Carry-On movies and the more recent Monty Python and the Holy Grail (featuring a rather long naughty nun scene, minus spanking) means these are deeply ingrained.

The imperium is baroque-gothic in its style, so they can't be your slap-and-tickle sort of naughty nun, so the strict side should come in. So you have strict gothic bondage nuns, since the image of gothic at the time was strongly informed by the nacent goth movement in the UK. And the fit in - the visual style is a charicature of the for force of their belief and desire to force it onto others (not very subtle really).

Does this have relevence in the modern 40K? As much as anything does, I think. 40K is such a hodge-podge of ideas that don't really make sense that they fit in as well as anything else. Are they sometimes too over the top? Probably, it is GW. Do you have to like it? Of couse not.

And back on topic, should female space marines look like this? If you want bondage space nuns, then yes. But that doesn't really fit the marine aesthetic, which is more of a mix of monastic, classical and medieval. Maybe changed lines to slightly emphasise femininity (assuming we are still allowing a little charicaturing here - if you want reality with all the hormone etc therapies the guys and gals would probably all turn out the looking same), but nothing over the top otherwise they'd stop being space marines.

[Melissia]

[snip]
... meh. You're right, I'm really overreacting and becoming rude. I'm gonna take a step back and stay out of this discussion for a while.

I never claimed to have a normal or orthodox or even sane viewpoint. Just my own. And that's all my posts ever claim to express... my view. I also never said everyone who wears them prostitute themselves, that would be stupid... only that it is associated with the act, much like balaclavas are often associated with bank robbers and terrorists and even though there ARE perfectly good reasons to wear them if a man with a gun and a balaclava is shown that's what most people around here, including myself, would think. And I have very strong opinions, and this time I let it get the better of me. So yeah... sorry I guess.

Gonna go play Swat 4 for a bit now... see if I can just come back later when I've let off some steam.

[Sangre]

See? Buttons.

[Commissar Lewis]

Swat 4? Never heard of it, but for great stress relief in terms of video games, I find Borderlands is great, as is Saints Row 2.

[AirHorse]

borderlands is ace :P Until your brother rockets himself on wave 19 out of 20 in mad moxxis underdome! Arrr :P

[Melissia]

I don't like to play MMOS.

Swat 4 is very very frustrating (go watch TheSpoonyOne's Let's Play of it to get an idea how frustrating it can be) and yet at the same time highly satisfying for some reason. I always liked the old-style single player shooer games, and this is one of the better ones. Screw health regeneration, if you're shot, you're ****ed up for the entire mission.

[Sangre]

Topic! There was a topic! Melissia, I can't believe you've done this again!

[Melissia]

Shutup, Sangre.

[Sangre]

Not until you're back on the ruttin' topic.

[Commissar Lewis]

Ruttin'? Hearing that word makes me want to watch Firefly.

[Melissia]

Ruttin'? Hearing that word makes me want to watch Firefly.

Heh, me too... hrm...

[DarkLink]

Ah, Firefly...:)

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Lol, i lover Firefly and Serinty.

Sangre stop looking to start an arguement, Mel was asked a question she is responding to it, so take your "rutten" and back up. We get it, you dont like Melissia, your a minority of one here who doesnt appreciate her wisdom and thoughts, comments and passion for the game.

On topic, for those who have there panties in a twist, the Female option for Space Marines, is that an option. If anyone out there wants to make them, hey go for it, i think all it would take is just a quick head swap, not like the SoB, who ae not in any way Female Space Marines, and you cant compare them as such except in training and wargear.

We have heard arguements to try to compare the two, but only in whats mentioned previously does it end there. SoB are not the female space marines.
But i hope that we all know in the fluff it is impossible. So i dont know why this thread is still going, but hey its cool.

[Sangre]

Lol, i lover Firefly and Serinty.

Sangre stop looking to start an arguement, Mel was asked a question she is responding to it, so take your "rutten" and back up. We get it, you dont like Melissia, your a minority of one here who doesnt appreciate her wisdom and thoughts, comments and passion for the game.

You just don't get this, do you? Bless.

That or spelling, apparently.

[Melissia]

Shutup, Sangre.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Hey Sangre your off topic, so shut up ok.
Get back on topic.

[Chris Copeland]

On topic, for those who have there panties in a twist, the Female option for Space Marines, is that an option. If anyone out there wants to make them, hey go for it, i think all it would take is just a quick head swap, not like the SoB, who ae not in any way Female Space Marines, and you cant compare them as such except in training and wargear.

We have heard arguements to try to compare the two, but only in whats mentioned previously does it end there. SoB are not the female space marines.
But i hope that we all know in the fluff it is impossible. So i dont know why this thread is still going, but hey its cool.


I wasn't suggesting that SoBs are real Female Space Marines... I was just saying that ultimately they do artistically, thematically, and tactically what Female Space Marines would do. They fill a very close niche so, ultimately, I think I'll go with a Sisters army and save myself a lot of modding...

peace... Chris

[Commissar Lewis]

Yeah, Sangre who took a dump in your cereal this morning, man?

Sorry, I'm feeling rather ill and thus somewhat irate.

[Melissia]

I wasn't suggesting that SoBs are real Female Space Marines... I was just saying that ultimately they do artistically, thematically, and tactically what Female Space Marines would do. They fill a very close niche so, ultimately, I think I'll go with a Sisters army and save myself a lot of modding...

peace... Chris

And for that, you are quite wrong :P

Artistically they are quite different, from their boots to their helmets to even their bolters being different. Similarly, the symbols of their Orders are qutie complex and artistic (here's a low quality version from DoW:SS (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a28/melissiablackheart/HolyOrders.png)), reminding me more along the lines of regalia and coats of arms far more than anything Space Marines do-- while the Space Marines' symbols tend to be far simpler, to the point of some Marine chapters just using a single letter from the greek alphabet.

Thematically they are aren't either, they are holy warriors in service to the church of the Imperial Creed, rooting out heretics and protecting the faithful of the Imperium, whereas Space Marines are (mostly) non-religious warrior-monks loyal to noone but their own chapter first and foremost, whom fight off the enemies of the Imperium without a care for protecting anyone but rather because they're enemies of the Imperium. Are they somewhat similar? Yes, but then one could argue that the Sisters are also similar to the Guard, too, for being the common person trying to protect the Imperium from the worst the galaxy of 40k has to offer.

Even tactically they are quite different, different from any army in 40k even. The most similar you could argue would be the Blood Angels, but even then they are nowhere near assaulty as them-- but what the Sisters do rather than assault is get in short range very quickly, and blast the hell out of everything they see with deadly short-ranged weapons, templates, and purging melta.


Meh.

[Chris Copeland]

Good enough for government work. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. The SoBs are stylistically and organizationally enough like the Space Marines that they make me question why I should go to all the trouble of modding Space Marines into female forms when the SoBs are already there...

The SMs are holy warriors out to defend the imperium... so are the SoBs...
The SMs use ancient power armor and follow ancient, gothic rituals... so do the SoBs...
The SMs shroud themselves in arcaic iconography dating back to the beginning of the Imperium... so do the SoBs...

So, in the end, Sisters of Battle already look a LOT like female Space Marines and they are already female... the whole point of my OP was that it would be cool to mod up Female Space Marines... the more we talked about it the more I realized that the Sisters were an existing army that already does a lot of what the potential Female Space Marine Chapter would do.

Two additional points: the Sisters are MUCH closer to Space Marines in almost all ways than to IG... by a country mile... and of course they play differently... that's actually a plus since I'm tiring of playing Space Marines...

All of the above is, of course, all my humble opinion...

peace... chris

[Melissia]

Good enough for government work. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. The SoBs are stylistically and organizationally enough like the Space Marines that they make me question why I should go to all the trouble of modding Space Marines into female forms when the SoBs are already there...Because they are not the *******ed Space Marines. (yay comic book references?)


The SMs are holy warriorsNo they aren't. The Space Marines are not "holy warriors", the (overwhelming) majority of them do not view the Emperor as a god, just a man worth following.

The SMs use ancient power armor and follow ancient, gothic rituals... so do the SoBs...The Sisters of Battle are closer to the holy knights of the catholic church in the Crusades, whereas Space Marines are remarkedly different a sort of strange blend of warrior monk, pagan rituals (they drink the blood and eat the flesh of their enemies), and a somewhat atheistic/agnostic look on life.

The SMs shroud themselves in arcaic iconography dating back to the beginning of the Imperium... so do the SoBs...So do the Imperial Guard.

So let's see, every single point you've made is wrong or irrelevant. FUN TIMES!

[Tynskel]

... meh. You're right, I'm really overreacting and becoming rude. I'm gonna take a step back and stay out of this discussion for a while.

I never claimed to have a normal or orthodox or even sane viewpoint. Just my own. And that's all my posts ever claim to express... my view. I also never said everyone who wears them prostitute themselves, that would be stupid... only that it is associated with the act, much like balaclavas are often associated with bank robbers and terrorists and even though there ARE perfectly good reasons to wear them if a man with a gun and a balaclava is shown that's what most people around here, including myself, would think. And I have very strong opinions, and this time I let it get the better of me. So yeah... sorry I guess.

Gonna go play Swat 4 for a bit now... see if I can just come back later when I've let off some steam.

Hey,

I think what you wrote was spot on. You should be angry- and I think people on this forum can take the anger.

Space Marine armor, vehicles, and weapons all have practical applications. The Helmet causes terror. Their armor is purely for protection, and their weapons decimate their opponents.

If one is to make Female Space Marines, the same thought to design should be used.

If you look at female soldiers- they look exactly like men do in full battle dress. Female space marines should look that way.

The differences would have to be very subtle- basically, the head would have to be different- slightly more rounded on the forehead. That's about it!


Sisters of Battle are different.

Their mission is torture and death. If they can catch you alive, they will, but they don't hesitate to maim, terrorize, and destroy. Their uniforms with their 'tits' are iconic in that respect. Bondage is the theme: Torture. Fingers being broken, nails ripped out, whippings, hearts removed- then replaced, just to be removed again! I think their uniforms in that respect are perfect. Snappin' Pu$$ies. Gunna eat you!

Space Marines are holy warriors-- Eunuchs come to mind too. Female space marines should follow the same ideals.

[Chris Copeland]

At Melissa: Wow. Yer a joy to interact with. You must be a LOT of fun to game with! Again, I disagree with you.

[therealjohnny5]

Because they are not the *******ed Space Marines. (yay comic book references?)

No they aren't. The Space Marines are not "holy warriors", the (overwhelming) majority of them do not view the Emperor as a god, just a man worth following.
The Sisters of Battle are closer to the holy knights of the catholic church in the Crusades, whereas Space Marines are remarkedly different a sort of strange blend of warrior monk, pagan rituals (they drink the blood and eat the flesh of their enemies), and a somewhat atheistic/agnostic look on life.
So do the Imperial Guard.


Agreed on all parts, nice religious analogies.


At Melissa: Wow. Yer a joy to interact with. You must be a LOT of fun to game with! Again, I disagree with you.

let's keep this civil everybody, no need to assault anyones character.


Ah, Firefly...:)

just started re-watching the series last night on netflix...man i love this show...

As for the female space marine have you considered using WHFB elves as a base? kit bash a mix of SM armor and more slender Elf armor?

[Chris Copeland]

Because they are not the *******ed Space Marines. (yay comic book references?)

No they aren't. The Space Marines are not "holy warriors", the (overwhelming) majority of them do not view the Emperor as a god, just a man worth following.
The Sisters of Battle are closer to the holy knights of the catholic church in the Crusades, whereas Space Marines are remarkedly different a sort of strange blend of warrior monk, pagan rituals (they drink the blood and eat the flesh of their enemies), and a somewhat atheistic/agnostic look on life.
So do the Imperial Guard.

So let's see, every single point you've made is wrong or irrelevant. FUN TIMES!


Specifically:

* Some chapters worship the Emperor. Some may not. I just read Angels of Darkness. At the beginning of the book the Dark Angels capture a Fallen. One of the heresies he is accused of is not acknowledging the divinity of the Emperor. I seem to have my facts together on that one...

* The imagery of the Space Marine as crusading knight is as old as the game. Their pivotal beginning is called The Great Crusade. Again... someone is wrong at it's not me...

*The imagery of the Guard FAR more resembles modern military forces with a few archaic bits thrown in... the SoBs and SMs use a lot more ancient looking equipment are are modeled after ancient warriors... notch for me again (since your saying "every single point you've made is wrong or irrelevant.")...

So... fun times indeed. I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree...

peace... cheers... Chris

[Chris Copeland]

As for the female space marine have you considered using WHFB elves as a base? kit bash a mix of SM armor and more slender Elf armor?

Johnny, I think that could be a way to go. However, I'm getting excited about building a Sisters army. I love the Goth-inspired look of the models. I love the Betty Page haircuts. I love that they already closely resemble Space Marines. I love the Dominatrix vibe the models have and how the ancient battle army looks a bit like a cross between medieval armor and a corset...

Sisters fill the artistic, stylistic theme I was aiming for with Female Space Marines so I think I'll try them...

[Melissia]

The Sisters of Battle are not goth. They are gothic. Yes, there is a major difference, because of the way pop culture works.

[eldargal]

Actually, the SoB hair style is a bob, not a Bettie Page cut which was very 1950s. The bob is very 1920s. Think flappers vs pin up.
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/79/21679-004-BCA71401.jpg
Louise Brooks, 1928. Sadly, the bob does not suit 6ft blondes.

[Commissar Lewis]

Mm, the bob haircut I am fond of.

*cough* *wheeze*

Dammit I hate sinus infections, I really do...

[therealjohnny5]

my family has my great grandmothers flapper dress from the 20's it's amazing. solid silver thread. and people say kids today dress risque...hah! should have seen these things.

And @ Chris Copeland: that's cool man if you're feeling using sisters instead. Will you be "counting as" marines or actually running a SOB army?

[navajas]

If you look at female soldiers- they look exactly like men do in full battle dress. Female space marines should look that way.

While I'd argue the relevance of this opinion as it applies to power armor, it is nonetheless commonly brought up and stated as fact whenever this topic is discussed. It seems to be simply accepted in our community, which is something of a shame because it is horse apples. It's not your fault, everyone seems to just eat this like corn flakes.

Apparently you can just put fatigues on people who are shaped completely differently, et voila', androgyny!

Yes, even in armor, even in fatigues, most women look different than men. Their thighs look different. Their wastes hips and *** look (very) different. Their shoulders look different. Their arms look different.

No, you can't see their boobs, but that's because they aren't sculpted on the front. But, you know what? There are LOTS OF OTHER things that clearly, visibly, mark a human as visibly female that are not breasts.

[Melissia]

Don't tell them that, they might start to notice that girls aren't quite the same as boys!

[Lerra]

There are LOTS OF OTHER things that clearly, visibly, mark a human as visibly female that are not breasts.

While this is mostly true at a real-life scale (not all women have an hourglass figure - some are built more like men), I don't think those differences are enough to be noticeable on a 28mm mini. It seems like a lot of work to convert a space marine model to have 0.5mm larger hips and 1mm smaller shoulders. I'm not going to fault people for doing a simple head swap instead of the full conversion.

[Sangre]

Frankly I shouldn't be magnificently surprised that the clientele that GW generally cater to would have problems identifying with women.

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

*sigh*

I liked this thread when it was a modeling one.
I like models.

I think I'm going to go back to Warhammer Fantasy now. Too angry here.

No... I'm going to watch Firefly.
I like Firefly....

[Melissia]

Shutup, Sangre.


Gnoblar: WFB can be pretty angry, too, you know :P Firefly is truly the only option.

[Sangre]

We should petition for a Firefly forum in the lounge here. It'd keep us out of the trouble we always seem to end up causing.

[Commissar Lewis]

Yep, Firefly is indeed awesome. Been watching it for the past two days while I'm out of commission with this illness.

I need to make a Jayne Cobb model and/or a Mal one too.

[Duke]

We should petition for a Firefly forum in the lounge here. It'd keep us out of the trouble we always seem to end up causing.

Now Sangre, you know that wouldn't be true... We would find a way to ruin that one too, lol

Duke

[Melissia]

Someone (probably Buffo) would say they prefer twilight to firefly.

[Duke]

Probably becuase of the accuracy of which twighlight portrays vampires... Especially the vegitarian ones!

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

Are not the Twilight vampires just the BA's thousand of years ago before the Emporer took gene seed to make Sanguinius?

[therealjohnny5]

you guys are always good for a laugh...thanks...and i just finished firefly in 2 days again....love it...tomorrow serenity...

[Commissar Lewis]

Someone (probably Buffo) would say they prefer twilight to firefly.

By Thor's Beard, I think my mind would tear itself apart reading that. But what I'd love to see is Buffy vs. Edward. Prediction? Assbeating delivered by Sarah Michelle Geller.

[Duke]

Nay, Buffy would fall for Edward and his shiney-ness, then angel would have to beat Edward down. Seriously, she fell for spike. But that said, spike was pretty asweome-sauce.

[Commissar Lewis]

I can see her falling for Spike; Spike was awesome.

Edward is just an emo punk with a blood fetish. He's no more a vampire than Dr. Zed is a doctor.

But I digress.

[Melissia]

So, Doctor Insano for president?

[Commissar Lewis]

Huh? I was referring to Dr. Zed from Borderlands, who has said he lost his license in addition to not having a med school degree.

[eldargal]

I avoided Buffy when it was on because I was sick of people asking me if I was named after Drusilla. Yes, I was named after a character in Buffy which came on television a decade after I was born. Recently I started watching it and it is ftw.
Buffy likes bad boys, so Spike > Edward.

So, anyway, does anyone have any more pictures of converted FSMs?

[Commissar Lewis]

That sounds most annoying people thinking you're named after a show character. I'm lucky with my nondescript name.

[Melissia]

Huh? I was referring to Dr. Zed from Borderlands, who has said he lost his license in addition to not having a med school degree.

I know. And I was changing the subject, because Doctor Insano >>>>>>>> Dr. Zed.

[Commissar Lewis]

I'm not aware of who Dr. Insano is.

[navajas]

So, anyway, does anyone have any more pictures of converted FSMs?

I posted a link in this thread about seven years ago when it was on topic but I'm not sure anyone clicked it. Doctor Thunder has done the only large scale (as in two full armies) female conversions that I know of. I can't find links to the other army which made use of Fantasy battle parts. It didn't look as good as the Black Widow's in any case, but it might be easier, though expensive, to make since it's more of a kit bash than a modeling trick.

[Melissia]

I'm not aware of who Dr. Insano is.

You uncultured swine.


http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/04/01/ferris-buellers-day-off-review/

Here's the most recent example.

[Commissar Lewis]

Hey, I'm an uncultured brute, not swine.

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

Gnoblar: WFB can be pretty angry, too, you know :P Firefly is truly the only option.
Yes... But I've been playing fantasy a long time and have observed personality trends enough that I can safely say that WH40K players are very nice people, but they like screaming at each other a lot.
Most rules or fluff disputes in Fantasy tend to end with shrugged shoulders and everyone going "Eh. We don't really understand our own rulebook anyway."
Seriously, it was built with more contradictions than the Bible, if that's possible...