No Reserve vs Drop Pods

[Chris Copeland]

I have a question. This came up in a game I was playing recently. I have a drop pod army. Every unit I have comes in via drop dods. I've paid for the drop pods in the cost of all of my units.

What do I do when I am faced with a situation that takes away reserves? I was playing a battle from the new battle missions book called "Vertical Envelopment." The mission states that only the Tau player gets to use reserves... I was the enemy player.

My opponent said, "Well, I guess you have to start your Drop Pods on the table." I said that wasn't possible, that Drop Pods HAVE to deep strike. My opponent said that Deep Striking was a form of reserves and that I didn't get reserves. I don't think he's right. I think Pods having to deep strike is the overriding rule.

What is y'all's take on this?

Cheers.... Chris

[Gotthammer]

In the context of the game I'd (as the Marines) want to then be able to deploy my pods as I see fit, like any other unit - no rolls for scatter or that sort of thing. It'd make sense, the Tau rapidly moving in to ambush a Marine landing zone.

But from a RAW perspective I think you could - Deep Striking units are placed in reserve, even if the Reserves rule is not being used for that mission - first paragraph, pg 95.
Since the Battle Missions mission does not use the Reserves rule (which the rulebook clarifies is always used in the standard missions - first paragraph, pg 94) for the enemy player, the Deep Strike rule has a specific contingency that bypasses that.
Somewhat defeats the point of the mission though.

[gcsmith]

um drop pods may always ds even if mission dsnt allow it, same with termies.

[david5th]

SM codex pg 69 -

" Drop pods always enter play using the deep strike rules from the mission special rules of the WH40K rulebook."

It does say In the BM book pg7 -

" In all cases where a special rule contradicts a standard game rule, then the special rule takes precedence. "

Towever in this particular mission the special rule affects the Tau not the opposition.

Anyway, aren't Reserves and Deep Strike two different rules and game mechanics, independent from one another.

[ggg]

The drop pod rules are an exception - you always arrive from deep strike with the drop pod assault rules.
(unless you are black templars then it is just the deepstrike and reserve rules you apply.)

It is the same for daemons I believe.

The Tau player is spouting crazy madness.

In my opinion, Drop pod armies enjoy real benefits from the battlemission scenarios.

[Nabterayl]

You're right, although I think your opponent can be forgiven for being confused.

Deep Strike and Reserves are two separate rules (c.f. page 94, "The 'reserves' and 'deep strike' special rules given here are used in all standard missions"). The relationship between Deep Strike and Reserve is kind of muddy - page 95 says that units may Deep Strike even if Reserves are not being used, and then states that units that will Deep Strike are placed in Reserve. From this I would conclude that we have three concepts going on:
"Reserves" is the name of a state into which units may be placed, typically during deployment. This is the "place" that Deep Strikers, Outflankers, and regular Reservers "hang out" before they are deployed.
"Reserves" is also the name of a rule which, if in effect, allows players to place units into Reserve (the place/state) so that they will either come onto the table from Reserve from their own table edge, or will come onto the table from Reserve by Outflanking, as the case may be.
"Deep Strike" is the name of a rule which, if in effect, allows players to place units capable of Deep Striking into Reserve (the place/state) so that they will come onto the table by Deep Strike.

In other words, both the Reserves Mission Special Rule and the Deep Strike Mission Special Rule allow you to get into Reserve (the place/state). Vertical Envelopment knocks out the Reserves MSR for the defender, meaning the only way the defender's units can get into Reserve is by Deep Striking. Since drop pods do not depend on the Reserve MSR to get into Reserve, they can still do so, and therefore can still Deep Strike.

[Ssyrie]

If you're just playing a casual or pick-up game, there are two choices:

1. Pick a different battle mission

2. Have a list that doesn't include drop pods

As for #2, you have to understand that the scenarios in battle missions represent non-standard battles. In the case of "Vertical Envelopment", it's a mission where the Tau are attacking a force that is already on the ground. What this means is that some army lists will not work with all the scenarios in the Battle Missions book, especially reserve heavy/full lists. Now I could see an exception with characters like Marbo or the Callidus Assassin, but otherwise I'd have to go RAI. If the Battle Missions book says no reserves then you have no reserves. In the case of a drop pod army, you're attacked after you landed.

[Chris Copeland]

Wow. Thanks for all the great responses.... definitely the info I need since my Drop Pod army is my "all comers" army... chris

[The AKH]

I agree with the rules interpretation presented here - that Drop Pods are allowed to Deep Strike regardless of the mission rules - but personally, I would consider changing up your army list in order to better suit the Battle Mission scenario, unless it was a straight pick up game.

[lobster-overlord]

I wouldn't be adverse to the idea of having to deploy my Drop Pods first and then get ambushed. Space Marine training exercise gone awry... or mis-information as to correct zone to land. But I also agree that Drop Pods are placed into "reserve" but are not "reserves."

[DarkLink]

Codex trumps mission rules even in this case, I think. Because drop pods specifically must go into reserves, that overrides the no reserves rule.

Basically, Codex>Battle Missions>BRB. Codex rules govern.

[Lerra]

Imo, the drop pods must deepstrike, similar to how Chaos Daemons must deepstrike. Although I would happily start with all of my daemons on the table if my opponent insisted on it ;) Ask the Tau player if he would really want all of the daemons on the table turn 1.