Space Marine Codex redundant now?

[NeilBrimelow]

I finally got a chance to see the BA codex in person and I must ask the question, am I missing something? Is there any real reason to buy the standard marine codex? The only thing I can think of is if you wanted to run an army specifically tied to a special character (like The Imperial Fists).

Otherwise, if you're running a Vanilla SM army, you could just use the much superior army build out of the Blood Angels.

I'm looking over the codex and I really don't see any negatives, and the only thing "missing" is that "jamming Land Speeder" that nobody uses.

Ususally, every codex has had some cool things, but those things were balanced out. With the BA codex it seems that they forgot the ying for the yang.

I was looking for the RAGE part in BLACK RAGE, and all I found is that it gives the squad/character/whatever FNP and Furious Charge, but the effected models don't actually suffer from RAGE (as defined in the rulebook) nor have any negative whatsoever.

That, and Flying Land Raiders, Fast Predators with Flamestorm cannons, Flying Dreadnaugts with a "GET OVER HERE!" Harpoon, a new flyer that's immune to melta spam, and special characters that are pretty bad ***.

I'm not complaining, I just find it funny how over the top GW went with this Codex release. I do have to say though, GW -REALLY- screwed over the Dark Angel players on just about every angle.

[rbryce]

personally, unless its an army that has been discontinued//built with a lot of fluff, love and care; i wouldnt want to play such major proxying. i like Jwolfs spacegoats, as they have a REALLY strong theme, on the other hand im not impressed with the ultramarines player who picks up the latest, hardest SM varient dex released and claims it as his own. especially as its still a strong dex in and of itself. now a black templars or dark angels player who uses the 'nilla dexi dont have a problem with, as they have been left in the dark ages, but i respect the player who uses the correct dex more, with "warts and all".

[Herald of Nurgle]

personally, unless its an army that has been discontinued//built with a lot of fluff, love and care; i wouldnt want to play such major proxying. i like Jwolfs spacegoats, as they have a REALLY strong theme, on the other hand im not impressed with the ultramarines player who picks up the latest, hardest SM varient dex released and claims it as his own. especially as its still a strong dex in and of itself. now a black templars or dark angels player who uses the 'nilla dexi dont have a problem with, as they have been left in the dark ages, but i respect the player who uses the correct dex more, with "warts and all".
(You mean Goatboy's space goats. Jwolf don't roll like dat)

Indeed.
Codex Space Marines players have to simply realise that what has happened to them has happened to many a codex before them. Much like they invalidated C: CSM and C: DA, C: SM has been invalidated by C: SW and C: BA. This is a regular cycle of the Power Creep/Power Seep cycle. Soon enough Black Templars will have their 5th codex, and Blood Angels will be screwed over. Ah well. Take it and deal with it.

(I'm totally not starting Blood Angels next :P)

[papa smurf]

hmm... well, this may sound simplistic, but being a 'vanilla' marine player that uses my own chapter, i don't play space wolves or blood angels simply because my chapter is not space wolves or blood angels or a successor chapter of either of those two, but my own creation.
then again, this is coming from a guy who plays to the fluff and generally just what i like. granted i use Shrike sometimes, so the "character use only" applies to me, but i field my regular captain much more often.
now, if they came out with a Raven Guard codex, i'd think about using it, simply because my troops are sneaky spes marinez :p

[papa smurf]

However to follow up on my previous comment, just an idea but any Fire Lords players out there i think would really benefit from the Blood Angels codex.
Baals with Flamestorm cannons in the FA slots, Land Raider Redeemers, Razorbacks with heavy flamers and the re-emergence of hand flamers in armies other than Sisters make the Blood Angels codex a very nice choice for anyone who wants to burninate with the fire lords and all their fluffy untouched potential, because the only thing that's said about them in Codex: Space Marines is that they like to bombard enemy positions with incendiary missiles prior to assaults and that they came up with the idea for the land raider redeemer.

[rbryce]

(You mean Goatboy's space goats. Jwolf don't roll like dat)

Indeed.
Codex Space Marines players have to simply realise that what has happened to them has happened to many a codex before them. Much like they invalidated C: CSM and C: DA, C: SM has been invalidated by C: SW and C: BA. This is a regular cycle of the Power Creep/Power Seep cycle. Soon enough Black Templars will have their 5th codex, and Blood Angels will be screwed over. Ah well. Take it and deal with it.

(I'm totally not starting Blood Angels next :P)

yeah thats the one. gonna have a tea, should function then

[phoenix01]

C:SM still has a lot of life in it. Land Speeder Storms, Thunderfire Cannons, and Masters of the Forge with the Conversion Beamer are distinctly Vanilla Marine. And compared to the new Glaive Encarmine mastercrafted two handed power weapon with a single attack re-roll at the user's strength, the Relic Blade of the Vanilla Marines is a better bang for your buck with its Strength 6 on all attacks. Plus, the Special characters in the Vanilla Codex are able to give your army a customizable theme that can vary wildly from army to army, whereas the BA Codex is more of the same: fast and more fast.

[joescalise]

I finally got a chance to see the BA codex in person and I must ask the question, am I missing something? Is there any real reason to buy the standard marine codex? The only thing I can think of is if you wanted to run an army specifically tied to a special character (like The Imperial Fists).

Otherwise, if you're running a Vanilla SM army, you could just use the much superior army build out of the Blood Angels.

I'm looking over the codex and I really don't see any negatives, and the only thing "missing" is that "jamming Land Speeder" that nobody uses.

Ususally, every codex has had some cool things, but those things were balanced out. With the BA codex it seems that they forgot the ying for the yang.

I was looking for the RAGE part in BLACK RAGE, and all I found is that it gives the squad/character/whatever FNP and Furious Charge, but the effected models don't actually suffer from RAGE (as defined in the rulebook) nor have any negative whatsoever.

That, and Flying Land Raiders, Fast Predators with Flamestorm cannons, Flying Dreadnaugts with a "GET OVER HERE!" Harpoon, a new flyer that's immune to melta spam, and special characters that are pretty bad ***.

I'm not complaining, I just find it funny how over the top GW went with this Codex release. I do have to say though, GW -REALLY- screwed over the Dark Angel players on just about every angle.


I agree, even the space wolves who are great. But even they lost some stuff, they do not have sternguard,vanguard, inronclad, thunderfire cannon and more. Now I know the blood angels do not have ironclad or thunderfire but they have 3 more dreds and everything else mentioned above. seems like they got all the good and no bad. But the models are amazing.

[Gir]

I was looking for the RAGE part in BLACK RAGE, and all I found is that it gives the squad/character/whatever FNP and Furious Charge, but the effected models don't actually suffer from RAGE (as defined in the rulebook) nor have any negative whatsoever.


I think you may need to re-read the codex. Black rage only effects death company, and they do have Rage. You're thinking of Red Thirst, which exchanges ATSKNF for Furious charge and Fearless. Not feel no pain.

[Lord Azaghul]

Ah Sparkle Marines: The lates the greatest and of course no-one anywhere will ever be able to win against them...ever! :D

Who does GW love baby, who?

[Docrailgun]

I don't think the point was that the BA Codex is the best EVAR, rather what is tempting (statwise) in the SM Codex over the advantages of the BA or SW Codexes, especially in Apocalypse?
Predators and Razorbacks that can move 12" and fire their main weapon or 6" and fire 3 lascannons? Not in the SM Codex. Vindicators that can move 12" and fire? Not in the SM Codex.
AV 13 Librarians with S10 I4 attacks that ignore armor saves and can move 12" then assault? The same.
AV 13 Dreadnoughts that can (very much in theory) kill a 'uge mob (100+ boyz lead by a Warboss) in one Assault phase before the Orks can even strike back?
Devastators that can split their fire? In the SW book.
"Tactical" squads that almost always have 3 A each (1 base, 1 for bp + CCW, 1 charge or Counterattack) and have bolters? SW again.

All that aside, what should players of Chapters that specialize in Assault squads use? Will they not be tempted to use the BA Codex which has Assault squads as Troops? What about armor-heavy Chapters? Would they rather use the slow, plodding normal tanks in the SM Codex? Chaos players that want Stubborn Counterattacking troops that are inexpensive? How about Dreadnought-heavy or psyker-heavy Chapters? The BAs can get at least 6 Dreadnoughts in a standard list, even without the Death Company ones that come as upgrades for the DC entry. Further, 3 of those can be Librarians. So that's 5 possible Librarians (2 HQ, 3 Elite) in a standard BA list. How does the SM Codex stack up to that? That's not to say that the SM Codex is bad or will never win, I'm just suggesting that people are more likely to want to use the BA or SW Codex rules.

What does the SM Codex have that the BAs and SWs don't? Well, He'stan of course makes flamers and meltas much more effective. BAs can't have bikers at Troops. Blood Angels can't have Fleet Terminators. SWs don't have inexpensive Terminators like the SM Codex. So, there are things that the SM Codex can do, I'm just suggesting that a lot fewer people will be using the SM Codex and probably won't go back after the novelty of the SW and BAs wear off.

[QUOTE=Lord Azaghul;63218]Ah Sparkle Marines: The lates the greatest and of course no-one anywhere will ever be able to win against them...ever! :D

[QUOTE]

[Lord Azaghul]

It just sounds to 'way to much' -have- a- happy- package- from- gw- please -by more-landrainders-ness.

If the book is truely over the top, time will tell, and GW probably won't care much 'cause they'll still be selling lots of SM (eh hum, blood angels)

I'm just no going to worry about it, and I don't want to play vampire space marines! But I do sure hope that their vehicles are more pricey then 'standard' SM ones!

[Melissia]

Why does it matter? They're all Marines in the end. Pick whichever one you like the most for its playstyle and fluff, you're still playing Marines.

[therealjohnny5]

hmm... well, this may sound simplistic, but being a 'vanilla' marine player that uses my own chapter, i don't play space wolves or blood angels simply because my chapter is not space wolves or blood angels or a successor chapter of either of those two, but my own creation.
then again, this is coming from a guy who plays to the fluff and generally just what i like. granted i use Shrike sometimes, so the "character use only" applies to me, but i field my regular captain much more often.
now, if they came out with a Raven Guard codex, i'd think about using it, simply because my troops are sneaky spes marinez :p

I've been playing RG for 2 years and just recently decided to repaint them and make them an secondary chapter simply so i can have the freedom to play from any other marine codex i want. Let's face it, CSM will always be my base codex that i play from the most, but occasionally i would like to mix up the play style of the army, and i in NO way want to buy another marine army and paint them in A) color schemes which i don't like - SW, DA, B) play a dedicated army for a fluff i don't like -SW, and C) have an army made of models i don't like - BA, SW.

Personally i don't mind reading stories about the SW but i think the models are ugly, i can't get over the wack hair and fur pelts everywhere. The BA are way over the top to me with their models and the space vamp thing isn't my cup o tea...So it boils down for me to having an army i like (RG) the fluff, the look, and play style. And they don't even need their own codex. I would just like the option to play a different style of play occasionally and the other codices open that option up for me. So it boiled down to me just needing and army that wasn't so recognizable on the field like RG are bc i'm a fluff monster and for me that would be very lame to field an entire counts as army when it's obviously something else (ala Ultramarines as SW's). So the simple solution was a custom chapter that holds to the fluff and stylings of my preferred army but can be fielded as another without confusion.

That being said i MAY eventually make a small contingent of BT for my upcoming sisters army since they kind of seem to fit fluff wise.

aaand speaking of sisters....


Why does it matter? They're all Marines in the end. Pick whichever one you like the most for its playstyle and fluff, you're still playing Marines.

Way to keep us marine players grounded Mel.:D It's ok you've already converted one of us...no just 10 million more and your plans for world domination will be complete...

[Melissia]

It's true in the end. There's tons of variations but it's still the same army. So pick whichever one suits your playstyle or your fluff. And take pity on those whom aren't given the same amount of variation instead of *****ing that you have too much, when the other armies would kill to receive even a fraction of that attention.

[therealjohnny5]

did you just ask for pity??? i knew it Mel you really are a sensitive person! :p

[DarkLink]

I don't think the point was that the BA Codex is the best EVAR, rather what is tempting (statwise) in the SM Codex over the advantages of the BA or SW Codexes, especially in Apocalypse?
Predators and Razorbacks that can move 12" and fire their main weapon or 6" and fire 3 lascannons? Not in the SM Codex. Vindicators that can move 12" and fire? Not in the SM Codex.
AV 13 Librarians with S10 I4 attacks that ignore armor saves and can move 12" then assault? The same.
AV 13 Dreadnoughts that can (very much in theory) kill a 'uge mob (100+ boyz lead by a Warboss) in one Assault phase before the Orks can even strike back?


And you pay for those stats. You pay a lot for them.

Plus, you cant' get everything in one army. You can't get AV 13 Librarian Dreads and Grey Hunters in the same list.

SW have certain advantages. BA have certain advantages. SM have certain advantages, mainly being in the middle of the road and more balanced than SW or BA.

[MVBrandt]

C:SM is not invalidated. BA is not *that* fantastic, either.

I don't know what the point of the thread is, though. There will always be crazy people screaming codex creep and utilizing strawman army builds and notions to back it up.

The one and only thing that's true (and this much IS unfortunate), is that the newer codices usually have a wider variety of build options that are competitive, and the older ones are pigeonholed into "the" competitive build the more new codices are released, but "new" in this case goes all the way back to Orks.

Vanilla SM are fine, and can build things that compete w/ any BA build. The same people freakin' about BA are also saying things like "Stormravens are good." Which they aren't. So on and so forth.

[RealGenius]

What? You mean the sky isn't falling?

Surely you jest; this is the Internet after all.

[UltramarineFan]

(You mean Goatboy's space goats. Jwolf don't roll like dat)

Indeed.
Codex Space Marines players have to simply realise that what has happened to them has happened to many a codex before them. Much like they invalidated C: CSM and C: DA, C: SM has been invalidated by C: SW and C: BA. This is a regular cycle of the Power Creep/Power Seep cycle. Soon enough Black Templars will have their 5th codex, and Blood Angels will be screwed over. Ah well. Take it and deal with it.

(I'm totally not starting Blood Angels next :P)

Invalidate and CSM should never be in the same sentence. I fail to see how either C:SM or C:CSM have been invalidated(DA i understand). Both are strong codexes that can hold their won in most situations and take on most enemy armies-how are they invalidated?:confused:

[MVBrandt]

They're not, but anybody and their mother can post on the internet, you see. It's like a series of tubes, too.

[Earthen]

C:SM does a few things better than BA.


(Terminators) Hammernators are cheaper
Multimelta/Flamer spam
Sternguard drop
Nullzone is still the best PSY power in the imperium. It almost an auto win against many armies.

[beeny13]

aas far as i can see the sm have the following advantages: vulkan, th&ss termies are cheapest, storm shields in general are cheapest, bike troops and bike command squad, and can take 6 dreads cheaply, also chapter tactics is actually awesome when you build a list with firepower as its strength

sw: grey hunters are dirt cheap, ic on wolves can be godlike but expensive, wolf guard are very cheap, long fangs are the best devs, rune priests are pretty damn good, twolf cav are a unit that shapes the battle

ba: fast transports for cheap for the assault squads and flamers for free, sang priests are so damn good, librarians have a lot of useful powers to choose from, and dev squads are better, but still not as good as long fangs.

these i think are all of the concrete advantages for each codex, the rest of the things that look overpowered are somewhat balanced by point increases. If you tweak a list you can really capitalize on the other pluses, but inherently they aren't that much better.

[oni]

There's no reason other than fluff to use the standard Space Marine codex, but not because of redundancy. The new Marine codices have overshadowed and overpowered it and have made it 'irrelevant'. Irrelevant being the key word.

[Lerra]

Keep in mind that regular vanilla marines just won the Adepticon championship (yellow division, not the blue division that Goatboy and BushidoRedPanda won). And that SM player beat Darkwynn/Leafblower using a list heavy on vanilla goodies (2x thunderfire cannon, librarian with gate and vortex of doom, scoring sniper scouts)

Even without the blood angel codex in the picture, vanilla space marine is still one of the most competitive codices. Ultramarine players will have a new opponent to worry about, but they will still be just as competitive against every other opponent, and I think they'll do fine against BA, too.

[oni]

Keep in mind that regular vanilla marines just won the Adepticon championship (yellow division, not the blue division that Goatboy and BushidoRedPanda won). And that SM player beat Darkwynn/Leafblower using a list heavy on vanilla goodies (2x thunderfire cannon, librarian with gate and vortex of doom, scoring sniper scouts)

Even without the blood angel codex in the picture, vanilla space marine is still one of the most competitive codices. Ultramarine players will have a new opponent to worry about, but they will still be just as competitive against every other opponent, and I think they'll do fine against BA, too.

It did? I'd like to take a look at that list.

[Lerra]

I have a copy of his 2k list but not his 1850 list (I played him on a previous day, not at 1850). From what I saw on the table though, at 1850 he had two tactical squads with meltaguns, lascannons and rhinos, a 10-man scout squad with sniper rifles and camo cloaks, 2 thunderfire cannons, at least 2 land speeders with double MM (I think some had been destroyed by the time I wandered over), a dreadnought with MM/SB, a devastator squad with 4x missile launchers, and the libby.

He played a Blood Ravens themed army. I remember he somehow had 3-4 teleport homers in the army, too. The idea was that the librarian would use gate to deliver melta to a tank's front door without scatter.

[Shagrath]

If you think this is bad read some of the black templars wishlisting on such sites as bolter and chainsword..but in all seriousness play the codex a couple games its not that bad, and vanilla marine players still have some serious advantages.

The pure amount of qqing this codex has inspired...geez.

[Melissia]

I'd call it laughable, but I think everyone expects me to laugh at Marine players and that's no fun.

[Shagrath]

It is kinda funny how the templars players I know want all the abilities in ba and then some, without a large

number of the disadvantages . Nilla marine players either don' care (read shrike, vulkan, thunderfire cannons

etc) or switch over, normally for "flavor." Da players have either given up entirely, or feel the rumors are

indicative of a superior thematic codex at some point.Wolves players are split too in either, "its too powerful

," mode or "I don't care I still have a better list mode".


Non marine players either think its O.P, or just sit lolling at the universal incessant whining.

[Levitas]

A new codex is always going to appear to be stronger. This is just the nature of the game. But in this case we have a new book using many toys from another book that isnt that old - but using them better. Kind of like if they released an eldar exodite book or specific type of tyranid, and made them the harder-better-stronger-faster.

The remains of the vanilla dex that do remain unique are minimal and not worth shouting about - in comparison to blood talons say. mmm. I think you have to keep somethings unique to each codex, and i'm disappointed to see they haven't done so. Sternguard are great, why do BAs need them and the FNP/FC gifting priests? And vindicators that are faster/better alongside scouting Preds that are going to make a mockery of power armor...on turn1/2.

You may scream codex creep, and that the BA book has its weaknesses. But in truth not many, what would they be then? points? Go make a 2k list minus any of the ICs and see what joys you can fit in, quite a lot it would seem.

I admire true BA players, for they have had it rough with a PDF codex. But why take so heavily from its brother chapters? I truly believe GW has dropped the ball big time on this one. Not so much that the sky is falling in, for the nid, wolf and IG dex are all recent and strong. More so for other marine chapters, who the book is more akin to a slap in the chops.

[Marshal2Crusaders]

Holy **** everyone needs to quit *****ing about the damn blood angels codex. Grow the **** up and play the ****ing game.

[gcsmith]

I agree marshal If anyone played or watch them play they would realise they are balanced, Let me put them into a metaphor, They are a circus, fun and amazing first, second, 3rd time etc you see them, but at the end of the day, like that 1 circus they only have the same tricks.

[Shagrath]

Marshal is credit to team! :) You have no idea how much I agree.

[RocketRollRebel]

I'd be annoyed honestly. Jumping at every shiny new toy is kinda meh. Plus id really say that the new BA codex is on par with SM and SW as far as power goes.

[pgarfunkle]

I'm really looking forward to using the new Blood Angel Codex as I've been waiting for it since I got back into the hobby, but it's not going to stop me from using the SM Codex for my White Scars Successor army (who will look suspiciously like Blood Angels lol because I have neither the time nor money to start yet another new army).

I'm now looking forward to the next Codex release because I'm already tired of people whining about the BA. I had to put up with my mate the other day going on about how the Dark Angels had been screwed by GW.

[DarkLink]

I'm now looking forward to the next Codex release because I'm already tired of people whining about the BA. I had to put up with my mate the other day going on about how the Dark Angels had been screwed by GW.

Yeah, and I'm thinking the rules are pretty well balanced. Every one of those oh so ridiculous units everyone complains about have some pretty significant balancing points to go with them (an extremely high cost, if nothing else).

Sure, there are some killer units in the codex. But they're all so expensive that you'll never be able to fit them all in the same armylist anyways, and it'll come back to the standard core of normal units backing up one or two expensive hammer units. We've been dealing with that ever since, well, forever. If we figured out how to beat Nob Bikerz, we can figure out how to beat this.

[Shagrath]

Well it does seem like the creep may even out a bit in a few dexes.

[Melissia]

I hope not. I want the creep to effect my Sisters, because *******it we've waited long enough.

[DarkLink]

Heh, maybe giving the Grey Knights an "average" 'dex will count as creep. Our rules are pretty bad as it is, so it would be a significant boost.

[Shagrath]

The rumor about Cruddace doing Templars makes me pontificate on that kind of thing...That one could easily go either way in the codex creep spectrum if true.

[Giorggio360]

But every advantage has the disadvantage, if not point something else. Deep-striking Land Raiders can always mishap (like they did with me). And faster vehicles means they will show weaker side/rear armour quicker. Blood Angels are as balanced as the next Space Marine Codex, but just excel at moving quickly, not at gunlines like some vanilla Marine armies. They can get blasted to pieces by Guard, but murder them in CC.

[Melissia]

And faster vehicles means they will show weaker side/rear armour quicker

... that makes zero sense. If you're worried about side armor shots, you can always choose not to make the full move, or even not to move at all. Pricing would be a far better point.

[Renegade]

The rumor about Cruddace doing Templars makes me pontificate on that kind of thing...That one could easily go either way in the codex creep spectrum if true.

Where's that rumour from? I've not heard anything on the BT for ages. And lay off the BT wish listing, the BT have the oldest 4ed 'dex and why the whining about people who still have imagination in the hobby, and about where the rules may go.

BA are not that hard, and I don't get the 'creep' that people are going on about. Sure a couple of the SC's are pretty hard, but they have draw backs when looked at with all the 5ed codices in the picture.
There is no codex creep in fifth, all the 5ed codices are pretty much balanced towards each other, and some in the game have far to much time on their hands and a lack of a life if they have spent their time 'mathhammering' it all in stead of playing games and having fun.

The 'nilla dex has been balanced out by the latest divergent codices, get over it.

@ Melissia
Maybe they should stick all PA armies in the same Codex, its not like SoB are that different. They share similar stats to SM Scouts, have the same armour as SM and even use the same vehicles with little variation, should be no problem. Call it the Power Armoured Armies of the Imperium or something, problem solved, and means more time can be used on more 'individual' codices that don't have power armour of which there are far to many factions of.

[Melissia]

Maybe they should stick all PA armies in the same Codex, its not like SoB are that different. They share similar stats to SM Scouts, have the same armour as SM and even use the same vehicles with little variation, should be no problem.This quote contains so much wrong with it that it makes my brain hurt.


1: Yes they are quite different from Marines. It might have something to do with the fact that they only have one heart and two lungs, and they don't spit acid or gain the memories of their foes from drinking their blood and eating their flesh. The difference between ordinary humans and Marines is quite dramatic.

2: No, they do not share similar stats to SM scouts. One could argue that they are comparable to Stormtroopers or IG Veterans, but they are not comparable to scouts at all.

3: They do not have the same armor-- just the armor has the same rough stats in a d6 system because of the limitations of a D6 system, and there's no in-game benefits to power armor other than stats despite the fact that in fluff there are plenty of other benefits. The armor of the Sisters of Battle does not have the same extent of life support and strength enhancing abilities as the Marines-- they do greatly enhance the survivability and strength of the wearer, but lacking the Black Carapace makes Sororitas life support systems less efficient, and Astartes have natural strength to better utilize strength enhancing systems. Both armor have different kinds of systems in their helmets, as well, suiting the different needs of Sisters and Astartes-- the Sisters' helmets have extra psycho-ocular (their word, not mine) systems which help ensure the human mind is not overwhelmed with sensory input in the midst of combat, for example, whereas a Marine would not need such a system.

4: They do not use the same vehicles-- Sisters have no vindicators, dreadnaughts, predators, land raiders, etc... and Marines don't have P.Engines or Exorcists, either. Immolators are also supposedly completely different from Razorbacks fluffwise, as well, even if they are quite similar in stats.

[Shagrath]

@ renegade not really wishlisting on my part :confused: ..Truth be told I hate templars.That rumor was taken straight off heresy online (taken with a massive grain of salt.)

I was simply continuing conversation about the codex creep.. Basically stating in plain english that it could be horribly imbalanced or another really good cruddace dex (no idea because this would be his first marine dex)

I really don't see the whining you are looking for...I mean have you seen half the blood angels threads on the internet...Now those are whining. :rolleyes:

[DarkLink]

@ Melissia
Maybe they should stick all PA armies in the same Codex, its not like SoB are that different. They share similar stats to SM Scouts, have the same armour as SM and even use the same vehicles with little variation, should be no problem. Call it the Power Armoured Armies of the Imperium or something, problem solved, and means more time can be used on more 'individual' codices that don't have power armour of which there are far to many factions of.

Melissia already covered it, but yeah, this made me laugh.

They could fit all the Marines in one codex. Maybe not Grey Knights, but they could get all the other current chapters in one book. But there is absolutely no reason in any way shape or form that SoB should be shoved in with Marines. Literally the only three things they have in common are 3+ armor saves, bolters and Rhinos. Should Necrons get shoved in to a Marine codex because they have units with 3+ saves?

[Shagrath]

eldar in a dark eldar codex...anyone ;)? *runs away before lynch mob forms*

[Renegade]

eldar in a dark eldar codex...anyone ? Similar vain of thought.
Literally the only three things they have in common are 3+ armor saves, bolters and Rhinos Thats a 3+ power Armour save. It's no more a stupid idea then putting GK, SoB and =][= in one codex or all SM. If your going to put all SM in one codex, then you may as well put any army that uses PA in it as well and have done with it.


I really don't see the whining you are looking for...I mean have you seen half the blood angels threads on the internet. You should have seen the UM forum in the B&C, the whine about the BA getting all the new stuff was incredible and similar to the OP, and some of what others have said.
I have heard others complain about the new BA dex, but not BA players... That could be funny, got any links?

[Melissia]

Ignore Renegade, he's just trolling.

And unnecessarily dragging this thread off topic I might add, especially since his little side note above was a reaction to me actually DEFENDING the Blood Angels codex, which is consistent with what I've been doing all along but he couldn't be bothered to actually read anything I've said (which is also consistent). Because, you know, I would never, ever argue that a Marine codex is balanced. Except, of course, the every single time that I have argued that exact fact, from C:SM to C:SW to C:BA. Apparently I can never hold an opinion other than some ridiculous strawman, according to this kiddo.

So, back on topic shall we?

[Renegade]

I'd call it laughable, but I think everyone expects me to laugh at Marine players and that's no fun.

nuff said.:rolleyes:

[Shagrath]

me actually DEFENDING the Blood Angels codex

This is why I respect you


You should have seen the UM forum in the B&C, the whine about the BA getting all the new stuff was incredible and similar to the OP, and some of what others have said.
I have heard others complain about the new BA dex, but not BA players... That could be funny, got any links?

Too lazy but know they exist... Dakka had a thread on how weak mephiston is for instance..

[Melissia]

Of course, but then the BnC had threads complaining that the fifth edition Space Marine codex was too weak before it ever came out.

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

That, and Flying Land Raiders, Fast Predators with Flamestorm cannons, Flying Dreadnaugts with a "GET OVER HERE!" Harpoon, a new flyer that's immune to melta spam, and special characters that are pretty bad ***.

I'm not complaining

Um... Can I complain?
To misquote Yahtzee, "Blood Angels are to game balance what a crowbar is to a kneecap".
What in the name of our dark lord Satan's testicles is with all the cheesy Marines lately?
Seriously!!! I trying to get into Tau right now, and I'm just afraid it's going to be another Ogre Kingdoms situation where people look at my army and go "Oh... Sorry about your... You know..."

Of course I got good with Ogres and now devour most poor mutha****as who are foolish enough to underestimate me, but that's beside the point...

[BuFFo]

eldar in a dark eldar codex...anyone ;)? *runs away before lynch mob forms*

In the back of the book, and kept in chains.

I agree.


I trying to get into Tau right now, and I'm just afraid it's going to be another Ogre Kingdoms situation where people look at my army and go "Oh... Sorry about your... You know..."


Tau players have been feeling like that since 2001. You'll get used to it.

Take solace you aren't a Necron player...

[Renegade]

Dakka had a thread on how weak mephiston is That made me choke... if he was any stronger he'd be a damned primarch! As he is, at least there is a chance of killing him, and he is no stronger than any other 5ed SC.


BnC had threads complaining that the fifth edition Space Marine codex was too weak before it ever came out. Really? maybe I should vist the site more often. I do know that there is a spoof complaint topic on there about how OP the C:BA is.

[Shagrath]

Another fun little thread is the "blood angels are broken" on warseer in general discussion. An entertaining mass butt-hurt flame war of epic proportions.

[Papa Nurgle]

I'm just gonna paint my Marines like Chameleons so I can utilize any Marine codex that they come near.

[DarkLink]

I'm just gonna paint my Marines like Chameleons so I can utilize any Marine codex that they come near.

Paint them covered in so much mud and grime that you can't tell what color they are:D

[egorene]

I dare say C:BA is making C:SM not redunant.
Becaus you can beat the red SM still without any help from titans .
C:BA has its funny things but all with a price , except Land Raiders but ok .

But i find it funny that always the new codex is overpowered people are are among the
first posters .
In WH40k youn can still beat nearly every army with any other codex army , well execpt necrons maybe
but i dont own them so thats just my thoughts

And by the way , since the codex is available i have beaten the BA with howling Griffons (C:SM) just
nearly 20 times , and lost only about 5-6 times but that maybe luck .
As it was played WYSIWYG no stormrven or Libra.Dre. was involved .

[Valkerie]

I find that the standard response to a new codex comes in several stages.

1. Before the codex comes out. " Oh My God! It's going to be overpowered and broken!"

2. The codex comes out. "Oh My God! It's overpowered and broken!"

3. After the codex has been around for a while. "Actually, it's not nearly as all powerful and unbeatable as we thought. But the NEXT one will be."

Repeat as needed.

[Subject Keyword]

Take solace you aren't a Necron player...

Hey! I heard that!

I cream Tau...

[Prodigalson]

If you are losing with tau against marines, it's not the army, you are playing it wrong. Tau are a excellent codex. I can't recall (as in... years like 2007 or 2006) that I lost a game with my tau against any loyalist marine army. I actually hope they take their time with tau and do them later in the edition so they are 6th edition ready.

The thing that sucks with tau is that there is really only one winning build for them with about 10% movement in options.

As to the bloog angels, they are interesting. I've gotten creamed the last few weeks as my friend test runs stuff on me, but that's 70% him knowing all my lists tricks and me learning his.

Also, in response to someone in this thread, if your mate *****es about DA's, let him, the codex is almost unplayable. It's like taking a knife to a gunfight. There are only about 4-6 good units in the entire codex, and the army's 'gimmicks' are stupid. (Look at me Mom! I will put my worst terminators in the game right in front of your army and shoot you with a single bad missile launcher/assault cannon!). But as I've said before, we wear dresses, that's what we get.

Marines are fine. Play more, lose lots, get some tactics, crush them in the face.

[chromedog]

I don't consider C:SM to be redundant.

What if I don't WANT to field BA or successors? Or Grey marines that dig holes, or Green marines who wear bathrobes to battle?

C:SM does everything I need it to do. Besides, my vindicators have Ordnance 1 blast. :D
I don't need Twilight twinkly-sparkle red-vampire marines.