Why Tau is NOT underpowered in 7th ed and REAL solutions to fix them

[Herkamer63]

The other day, I came across an article on here (not in the forums) regarding Tau. I think some people know what article I'm talking about, but in case if anyone doesn't, I'm talking about "5 Reasons Tau went from Hero to Zero" from MBG (or Rob or whoever he goes by now a days). I'm not gonna go over the whole article, but the gist of it was Tau are weak. Now, to be fair there was one thing I agreed with and that was Tau is not good at close quarters combat, but that's just stating the obvious for the past however many years. The other issues, however, make no sense whatsoever.

Just to name them really quick on what the article said what the Tau are lacking: The lack of ignore cover (which marker lights can fix), the lack of strength 10 weapons (which hammerheads still have), the lack of high strength weapons in general (he must have missed 18'' melta weapons with 9'' melta and other strength 7 and 8 weapons), and the lack of battle brothers (so what if they're not battle brother with elder, thank God they're not, they have the Farsight Enclave that have Battlesuits as troops). This is just an overview, so go read the article to find out a little more of what it means.

It is obvious, to me anyway, that the author of the article either A) has never played against Tau (at least never played against anyone good), B) never played Tau, or C) doesn't know Tau as well as he would like to think. Everything he listed had been corrected in the current codex. It's true they don't have D weapons, but do they really need it? If you actually look at the codex, they have more than enough high Strength weapons to make up for the lack of D weapons. Ignore cover? Marker lights... what else do you need to know? If you're overlooking hammerheads, you REALLY are unaware that there's strength 10 weapons. I will admit, 1 takes up a FOC slot, but I'll get back to that soon. Finally, battle brothers. The Farsight Enclave is the best codex supplement, IMO, that has been released thus far, so the having no good battle brothers is a lie. NOT EVERYONE CAN HAVE ELDAR AS BATTLE BROTHERS!

Anyway, what he listed was just ignorant to the facts that were listed above. So there are no problems in those areas. So what are the problems with Tau, and how can they be solved? One area would be the Auxillary units. Kroot use to be S4 and 2A with their rifles. Give that back to them. Vespids: they're too expensive for what they can do. Drop their pts or change the unit's stats to justify the pt cost (you be the judge of that). Broadsides being more expensive than what they should be. I'm ok with what they have now, but drop the pts on them and increase the cap in the squad. Either that or give them T5 to bring them up to par (they are rather big so why not). Hammerheads should be put into squadrons. They would be more effective and take up less HS slots. Same thing with skyrays.

Markerlights can be toned down as far as reducing cover. Make them what they use to be (refer to the 4th ed codex). Put more regular battlesuits in a squad. Make stealth suits cheaper. Farsight should have 2+ armor, +1 strength with his weapon, and Eternal Warrior (all under a LoW slot). These are just some of the fixes that I think should go into the next codex. Other Tau players (and non-players but have played against them alot) can come up with better solutions than what is being offered by the cited article. I just feel like as of late a few BoLs writers (especially this one) are simply ignoring facts. Is it life changing? No, but I it turns people off when they miss the real problems of armies. It makes the game more enjoyable when you know what' the problems are and how to fix it. Anyway, that's my rant. Post up real fixes of what you guys would do. To end this thread: I invite MBG (or Rob or whatever you are) to validate your take on this topic. It would be a good debate for sure. Have at it guys! (and I apologize for the length of this thread)

[Djbz]

As someone who has a Tau force, (not my main or favourite) I'm mostly in agreement.
One of the things I see a lot (in internet lists) is the "Buffmander"- which I consider one of the dumbest things in existence and needs to be killed. Easily done by limiting signature systems to 1 per person like other codex "relics"
Stealth suits should be T4 in my opinion and about 25pts
Crisis/Broadside suits could do with an additional wound, as they aren't that durable and get very expensive very quickly when you add weapons and support systems(plus T5 on the Broadside- can lower to 3+ save maybe)
The Stimulant injector (Feel no pain battlesuit system) is very expensive considering it is the same price as a marine apothecary/guard medi-pack upgrade and only affects one model rather than the unit
The Smart missile systems on vehicles should be more expensive as they are better in every way than the burst cannons for the same price
Kroot rifles should be an Assault weapon (Rng24 str4 ap6 Assault 1, str+1 ap5 in melee with kroot having 2 attacks base)- they want to eat the enemy and they can't do that from a distance after all (And the Krootox should be relentless)
And Tau characters should not be getting higher attacks characteristics- melee is not their style. (for example a Tau commander has more attacks base than a Chaos Lord)
The drone controller should affect all drones (and the missile drone should be available to other units and more expensive)
And Ethereals need personal shield generators (Aun'shi has one, role them out to everyone else)

[Andrew Thomas]

Crisis/Broadside Suits should be Tomb Spider-caliber MCs (i.e.: you didn't buy them for that role, but they can do it in a pinch), Although I can't accept GMC Riptides (no free FNP and resistance to Poison, tyvm).
Allow Fire Warrior/Pathfinder Shas'ui to gun-sling Burst Pistols, and let Carbines buff assault in some way (Blinding in Overwatch would do the trick).
Make Markerlights subtract cover saves rather than flat negating. And allow Cover Saves against Markerlight hits.
Give Kroot more support beast access, more durability, and ditch the Armor tax.

That's where I think real improvements could be made.

[DaveTycho]

I field a Farsight battlesuit list and the main reason I stopped playing with it for now is because I think it's stupid powerful and winning games where your own list is so tough your opponent can't deal with it is boring to me. I thought the same thing you did about Baer's article in that he doesn't understand Tau very well. Markerlights are still good, close combat is a deliberate weakness in the Tau list (but battlesuits can win combats, as long as you sufficiently shoot up the enemy enough to no longer be a serious threat). Do they really need D-weapons? Everyone complains about Eldar having them, so why suggest Tau should too? The only units I feel could justify having D-weapons would be the hammerhead railgun and the riptide with ion accelerator, and that's a big if. Speaking of riptides they are still good. Everyone forgets that the ion accelerator is a powerful long range weapon, being S9 AP2 at 72" range when nova-charged. Sure they are risky to use, and I have plenty of games where my riptides suffered more damage from themselves than from the enemy, but that shows how tough they are right now. I field two normally with no options so they cost the same as an Eldar wraithknight. I feel that fielding three in less than 2000 pts games is to OP'ed. Grav weapons do hurt, but they don't have that great range so why aren't you keeping your riptides away from them and shooting them as much as possible? Missilessides with velocity trackers are stupid powerful too, being able to take out flyers and ground units easily with massed shots I take three one-man units so they can target the same unit or split up their fire against multiple targets, and if they get shot back I only lose one at a time. Battlesuits are good right now and are better costed than they were pre 6th ed codex, but sometimes I do think that they need bigger unit sizes. Of course that's what drones are for. As for deep-striking melta armed battlesuits to take out land raiders? Not nearly as risky as it is compared to other units in other armies doing similar tricks. Add Farsight (or a commander with the same warlord trait {but Farsight is far better}) to the unit, you get precision deep-striking. Add that to the fact that fusions get double-dice at 9", so no getting caught in explosions, and their extra move in the assault phase limits counter assaults ( remember there is still Farsight in that unit). I haven't played Tau in about a year, and while there are no doubt things that have changed since, but I don't think that Tau see as bad as everyone claims. I was actually hoping that if there is a new codex soon that it would nerf some things so my army would no longer crush my opponents with boring ease.

[Mr Mystery]

Hold on.

I could swear the interwebchoobs were afire with complaints of Tau being overpowered not long ago?

[ChacoStylez]

@DaveTycho

I've been wanting to start a Farsight Enclave list, been stopped myself due to the fugly Crisis Suit models.

Would you be willing to show your list? I'm curious to see what it all includes. Doesn't sound like the Riptide spam that seems to up my ire.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I've been wanting to start a Farsight Enclave list, been stopped myself due to the fugly Crisis Suit models.

Fingers crossed the rumours turn out to be true, and we get some excellent suits. I'd recommend browsing Advanced Tau Tactica for some ideas on how to make the old suits work. Guys like Tael have made some bloody stunning conversions and kitbashes for them. :)

[DaveTycho]

@DaveTycho

I've been wanting to start a Farsight Enclave list, been stopped myself due to the fugly Crisis Suit models.

Would you be willing to show your list? I'm curious to see what it all includes. Doesn't sound like the Riptide spam that seems to up my ire.

Sure here's my list at 1750pts:

HQ
Commander Farsight 165pts

Shas'O
2 missile pods, drone controller,
Target lock 128pts

ELITES
Riptide
Ion accelerator, twin linked
Fusion blaster 185pts

Riptide
Heavy burst cannon, twin linked
Smart missile system 180pts

TROOPS
3x XV8 battlesuits
All with 2 plasma rifles,
Bonding knives; 1 shas'vre 169pts

3x XV8 battlesuits
All with 2 fusion blasters,
Bonding knives; 1 shas'vre 169pts
(Farsight joins this unit)

3x XV8 battlesuits
All with 2 missile pods, target locks,
Bonding knives; 5 marker drones 234pts
(Shas'O joins this unit)

FAST ATTACK
1x XV9 hazard suit
2 fusion cascades, shield generator 130pts

1x XV9 hazard suit
2 fusion cascades, shield generator 130pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
1x broadside
Twin linked high yield missile pod,
Twin linked smart missile system,
Velocity tracker, bonding knife 86pts

1x broadside
Twin linked high yield missile pod,
Twin linked smart missile system,
Velocity tracker, bonding knife 86pts

1x broadside
Twin linked high yield missile pod,
Twin linked smart missile system,
Velocity tracker, bonding knife 86pts

TOTAL: 1748pts

A few more things I'd like to point out:
1; I don't know how relevant this list is now it's very likely that the Tau codex will get an update.
2; I field XV9's because I like the models, and are the only remaining models from my very first Tau collection. Their rules haven't changed (apart from getting extra options) when the current codex hit and are actually over costed compared to the regular battlesuits. For anyone who thinks that Forgeworld shouldn't be in tournaments, I refused to go to one that banned FW because, with my small and very expensive battlesuit collection, my only replacements was to add in a few fun drones and a third riptide in place of my XV9's; and, tournament or not, I don't want to field "that guy" lists.
3; I agree the current battlesuits are fugly, and if rumours are right, there might be new ones you could use. Me, I heavily converted mine and if you can come back in a day or two hopefully I would have posted some pics of mine. They are only half painted though, but still I believe that my conversions are far and away the best out there.

I hope this helps you.

[Kirsten]

that is similar to mine, same HQ, same riptides. I have two broadsides, a unit of three crisis suits for anti infantry fire, two single suits with fusion blasters, a unit of two with plasma rifles, stealth suits, pathfinders, and sunshark bomber.

[DaveTycho]

@ChacoStylez

Here are the pics of my battlesuits.
15798
15798157991580015801158021580315804158051580615807

[DaveTycho]

@ChacoStlyez

More battlesuit pics and easy to convert marker drones

15808158091581015811158121581315814158151581615817

[DaveTycho]

@ChacoStylez

Although I have 3 riptides, two of them are nothing special. The one I got pics here is my third, the so-called "Farsight" riptide.

1581815819158201582115822

I hope you and everyone else enjoys these pics. If anyone can't see them properly, let me know and let me know how to post them here, or on another part of BOLS so the pics can be bigger.

[Andrew Thomas]

@ChacoStylez

Although I have 3 riptides, two of them are nothing special. The one I got pics here is my third, the so-called "Farsight" riptide.

1581815819158201582115822

I hope you and everyone else enjoys these pics. If anyone can't see them properly, let me know and let me know how to post them here, or on another part of BOLS so the pics can be bigger.

Sweet conversion.

[ChacoStylez]

Awesome list, it inspires me to get ready and double down with getting Tau this year, thanks!

[DaveTycho]

Awesome list, it inspires me to get ready and double down with getting Tau this year, thanks!

Nice to know I inspired another player to collect Tau.

- - - Updated - - -


Sweet conversion.

Thank you.

[Venomlust]

So cute when little fish men play with swords :P. Does look good, though!

[Scorpio]

I don't think Tau are really lacking as such. Yes, they're not great at Combat, but fer cryin out loud have you tried getting to them? The number of Shooting Dice rolls they can make, plus their (my mates next door can Overwatch with me) rules are horrific, especially with Marker Lights to aid their Ballistic Skill and ruin your cover saves).

I've played Fast Attack, Outflanking and Deep Striking against them and yes I got them running away from me, but there was still always someone shooting. Riptides I feel are OTT and that new suit that has had its rules leaked... Beyond a joke. Seriously, if any Tau player puts even 1 of them up against me outside of an Apoc game, it will collide with my size 11 shoe (even in Apoc, more that 1 when you have Riptide Spam is wrong).

I'm all for a bit of competition, (especially when it requires tactical thinking) but that is vile.