Dark elves+daemons why people cry cheese and can we fix them?

[Heimagiblin]

Having read through many of the top tier army books whilst preparing for an upcoming tournement I noticed a few things that we just, broken,especially in the afformentioned books and that had no reason to be there or are just way to good for their points.

1. Ring of hotek-

There is only 1 problem with the ring of hotek. If what it did was changed from any spell cast or targeted within 12 inches to a spell cast within 12 inches it would completley solve the balance issue.

2. Pendant of khaleth-

Fair enough, if it was <65 points, enough to stop you taking it with the regen armour and make you choose between aod and a magic weapon. It would still be good but it would be less game breaking.

3. Assasains-

Only 1 complaint here, manbane+ rending stars. Stop busting my bloody chariots. The only way I can think to fix this would put a max str 6 on rending stars.

4. Black guard always striking first deathstar.

Why is the asf banner less than 50 points Put it to 55, so at least a bsb is required. The only problem would be that that is now the only workable way to use the banner, better idea anyone? Take off stubborn/immune to psychology?

Deamons.- I deliberatly ignored special characters because I have something I plan to do next year and was hoping I could finish this post by then.

1. Flamers-

Change to d3 hits, I think that would balance them.

2. Fleshhounds.

Increase in points, up to 45 or go to 30 and only have 1 wound

3. Siren song.

Why do you go off automatically? At least let me try to pass a ld check at - something.

4. Daemonic gifts.

Spamming the best gift is just retarded. Thankfully the bret vows offer us a solution. You want to take 2 siren songs. The second one will be double points please.

I am sure you good people will be able to come up with more/ better fixes than I have so please post more. Also, if you feel I have have made a mistake (It can happen) please feel free to post what you think as long as you give a reasoned argument. So no personal attacks. If you feel that deamons/ dark elves are balanced, as long as you give a reasoned argument thats also welcome. So, your turn.

[slxiii]

you make alot of good points, but we will basically have to wait until the next books and hope every army gets stuff to fight them.

[Joker's Wild]

I'll just respond to the dark elf critiques since I play them and we could go on for days about daemons.

Ring of Hotek - I agree with your assesment, but think it would be more balanced if it cost 50 pts rather than change the effects. The edge this gives DE is the ability to win the shooting and combat phases while maintaining stout magic D for very little cost.

Pendant - This item is good, probably better than it's points. Again make this one cost 50 and it's mostly back to square.

Assassins - If you're happy with them then I'll leave it at that, but I think they should be core 0-1. Rending stars and manbane are the least universal good way to use them I think, but if you like to run chariots, you're right, they can be tough.

ASF Black Guard - I use this unit with Hotek on the champ and a master with the pendant and soul render in the unit. My assassin goes in a unit of warriors. With just the BG and 3 str 6 attacks up front it's not nearly as lethal. Strangly enough, I find this makes them better. Opponents are less likely to spend a ton of attention and effort trying to divert them away. When I first started I would run them 7x3 with a D-lord and assassin in the unit and found it was just way to easy for most armies to divert. Here are ways to do it... (also way I'm not convinced the tactic is broken) This also assumes no assassin in most cases, if there is one you may have to use the fast cav tactic more than once.

-Lizard men: Charge them in the flank with skinks - you'll lose most of them then flee forcing them to turn and run off to the left or right. Or you can just position your skinks in a way that the black guard must charge or do nothing and the closest visible skirmisher will flee in an off direction.

-Warriors: shoot a unit of fast cav to the far flank and reform in a "congo" line 1x5. Next turn charge in to the flank. You probably lose 3-4 guys and same thing happens as above.

-Wood Elves: shoot a unit of fast cav to the far flank and reform in a "congo" line 1x5. Next turn charge in to the flank. You probably lose 3-4 guys and same thing happens as above. Wood Elves can better deal with them by just evading and shooting, but this is one way to get a couple turns of shooting.

High Elves: shoot a unit of fast cav to the far flank and reform in a "congo" line 1x5. Next turn charge in to the flank. You probably lose 3-4 guys and same thing happens as above. Most people avoid silver helms, but I think one unit is important for this match up specifically. Great eagles can "flee block" them as well.

-Skaven: Hell pit in the flank, furnace in the front, censer bearers in the flank, shoot them to a lower model count first. Skaven are tough for BG.

-Dark Elves and Beastmen: Use harpies in the same fashion as described for skink's "flee blocking".

-VC: Raise dead and direwolves. Enough said

-Daemons: Flamers...

-O&G: No real good answer here other than fanatics and squig herders

-Empire: Steam Tank. If the D-Lord has a STR Pot you could be in trouble though. But it is assassin proof.

I haven't seen a good answer for TK, Dwarves, Bretts, or Ogres.

[Farmer]

I think VC are a better army then DE, it's those poor Wood Elves that constantly get trashed by the fact top notch armys now get access to lore of fire:(.

[Joker's Wild]

Wood Elves create serious problems for Dark Elves running Black Guard.

[Gnoblar with Pointy Stick]

The way to "fix" them is to stop crying cheese and just fight as hard as you can and win as hard as you can.
At least, that's my take on the matter.