Heresy Jetbikes Weak!

[Quiben]

15761

Alright guys, I've got a heresy jetbike army that I play 40k with that I am darn tired of losing with. I need some help to make these models more playable on the table. The models I own are as follows (p) for painted:

7x (p)Scimitar Jetbike Stock
5x (p)Scimitar Jetbike w/ main weapon magnetized
2x (p)Scimitar Jetbike w/ Powerfist
1x (p)Scimitar Jetbike w/ Paragon Blade and Iron Halo (Praetor)
2x (p)10 Man Tac Squad w/ Sgt, Power Axe Bolt Pistol
2x (p)Rhino w/ TL Bolter
10x (p)Autocannon Heavy Weapon Marines (5 unbuilt)
10x (p)Tartaros Terminators w/ Power Weapons (5 unbuilt)
2x Mortis Pattern w/ Kheres Assault Cannon and Cyclone Missile Launcher
1x (p)Caestus Assault Ram (usually upgraded w/ Missile Launchers)
1x Sicaran Battle Tank w/ Lascannon Sponsons
2x Javelin Attack Speeder w/ TL Lascannon and Multi Melta

I collected this army up because I wanted something a little different to play (a jetbike based army). I feel currently like the bikes are a huge point sink as well as the Caestus, which is a little disheartening because I like the way those models look and the bikes were sort of the point.

I NEED SOME HELP MAKING THESE GUYS WORK.

[son_of_volmer]

Just play the Jet bikes as count as regular bikes and the Caestus as a Stormraven and play around with your army composition to suit.

[YorkNecromancer]

I hate to say it, but I'm not surprised you've lost. Scimitar Jetbikes are harassing/skirmishing units; trying to run an all-Jetbike army is never going to work, because they're just not designed to work as the foundation stone of an army.

If you're doing a Heresy-era army, you need army synergy, far more than 40K-era marines. From the look of your list, you've got good anti-air, and the Jetbikes should serve as skirmishers, zipping around and deleting isolated units. Remember, they're a shooting unit, and therefore fairly sub-par at melee. Give them Volkite Culverin to deal with infantry and Multimelta to kill tanks. Make sure each unit has a specific role, either killing infantry or tanks. Ain't nothin' in the middle of the road 'cept a dead skunk. I'd run Volkite bikes in units of 5, Multimeltas in units of 3, and I wouldn't bother with any melee upgrades.

From there, I'd suggest rethinking your army from the ground up: what units are you going to use to seize objectives? It can't be the Jetbikes, because that's just not what they do; you can't lash a giraffe to a plough and expect to have your farming done in the same time as if you used an ox. I'm not sure what your Terminators are for; likewise the Caestus (which just does what your jetbikes already do).

If you're going to run a Jetbike-heavy army, you need to accept that those are going to be the things that do the majority of your killing, so you'll need other units to hold ground, while your Jetbikes zip around wrecking face, then making objective grabs in the late-game stages. At the moment, it looks like you have exactly two units that are cheap enough to be 'wasted' by plonking them on objectives (your tacticals). Everything else just seems to be excess: you've got two very expensive anti-air Contemptor Dreads and an anti-air Sicaran. Do you need that much anti-air? Because I'd hazard a guess your Contemptors don't really get to use all those guns enough to justify their costs. If I were looking to 'trim the fat', I'd lose the Caestus and either one dread or the Sicaran, then add some dedicated objective grab-and-hold units (like possibly recon squads, or cheap all-flamer Tactical Support squads).

Just be aware: you've already stacked the deck against you by trying to build an army that runs entirely counter to how Legion marines play (at least until one of the unwritten Legions get rules which make them awesome at Jetbiking). If you're going to indulge your Jetbikes, the rest of your army has to be ruthlessly points-efficient to compensate for that.

[Alaric]

What legion are you? Knowing that would help greatly.

Things you are missing as I see it:

Beatstick. Primarchs are the best ones. The praetor you have is pretty decent. Paragon blade is win. I would pair him with a Chaplain to capitalize on his attacks. Those two paired up will wreck face.

York covers objective takers.

Large area removal. Fellblades or a knight (my recommendation as it can keep up with the bikes pretty well) or Typhon or something. Yer not a dick for bringing that stuff in 30k.

Apothecaries. I love these guys, doubt I need to explain why.

Optional

Artillery. The rapier is fantastic.


I would drop termies and Caestus. Replace with any of the other stuff I blathered aboot for current setup. The Caestus is really good for a flyer but I dont see it as being overly good to help the bikes. You need some big *** shells from big *** guns clearing the way while your bikes plow thru the wreckage to pick off what survives.

Just how I see it. I aint no gaming God but ive played quite a bit of heresy and its just a swell game. But as I said, knowing the legion would help as u could have a cool artifact and a legion rule that jives in the right way with jetbikes.

[YorkNecromancer]

Ditto on Rapiers. Quad Heavy Bolters are just obscene anti-infantry weapons - if you plonk them on an objective in your deployment zone, your opponent will have a hell of a time shifting them with anything but tanks, especially when paired with Imperial Fists. Quad mortars and Laser destroyers are great too.

And Alaric is completely right about superheavies/Primarchs. The entire game is built to showcase them, so if you're not using them, you're actually hampering yourself a fair deal. They are much, much fairer than in 40K.

What you could do, is get a Spartan Land Raider, load it up with troops. It'll get them wherever they need to go, and then you just use it as a hideous distraction; give it Armoured Ceramite and a Flare Shield and it's functionally indestructible, forming a superlative bullet sponge, while your Jetbikes wreak havoc on whatever tries to nobble it.

[Inquisitor Malaclypse]

Make them Iron Hands. Add apothecaries to your bikes (I can't recall if apothecaries can take Scimitars). Stay out of combat.

Add an Apothecary to your termies. Consider a techmarine (maybe two)snuck into a squad to hang out with your Contemptors for repairs.

Give your tact squads vexilia. Again add apothecaries if you can.

I would drop the Sicarius and add more Javelins. I would see if you can fit as many as you can but keep them cheap. Twin heavy bolters or bolter/flamer. I would only add multi meltas at best.

[DaveTycho]

You play this against 40k armies? I congratulate you for doing so. More than that I congratulate the people you play against for wanting to play 40k vs 30k lists. You and your opponents are the kind of people who see this as another way to play, rather than the boring majority who say "HH isn't 40k, so I won't play against it".

[Macharius]

Just wanted to throw in, your army is super cool. I dig the paint the scheme and what you are trying to do. There is just no way it can function.