Drop Pods Shooting upon arrival

[papa smurf]

hi all, i have a question for you. can drop pods shoot on the turn they arrive?

my opponent and i ran into this problem the other day. i thought that they couldn't shoot because vehicles that deep strike count as having moved at cruising speed (sorry can't cite that at the moment), but my opponent argued that since the drop pod is always immobilized, this allows it to shoot. I play space marines too, but that game i was playing 'nids and i usually play treating it as a vehicle that moved at cruising speed, but i understand where my opponent is coming from.
since it was just a friendly battle mission game and neither of us wanted to argue, i just let him shoot, it was only one drop pod anyway.
but what do you guys think? does the cruising speed upon arrival apply to the drop pod or can it fire since it is immobilized? i'd like to hear some input and some backup from either the space marine codex and the main rulebook if possible. thanks for any help! :)

[The West Coast Knight]

I have always played it that they can
To me it just makes sense fluff wise
Some will argue that only the Storm bolter can fire being strength 4 and not the blast one being strength 5 but I saylet fire.

[Nabterayl]

hi all, i have a question for you. can drop pods shoot on the turn they arrive?

my opponent and i ran into this problem the other day. i thought that they couldn't shoot because vehicles that deep strike count as having moved at cruising speed (sorry can't cite that at the moment), but my opponent argued that since the drop pod is always immobilized, this allows it to shoot. I play space marines too, but that game i was playing 'nids and i usually play treating it as a vehicle that moved at cruising speed, but i understand where my opponent is coming from.
since it was just a friendly battle mission game and neither of us wanted to argue, i just let him shoot, it was only one drop pod anyway.
but what do you guys think? does the cruising speed upon arrival apply to the drop pod or can it fire since it is immobilized? i'd like to hear some input and some backup from either the space marine codex and the main rulebook if possible. thanks for any help! :)
You're correct. The cruising speed citation is page 95 ("Vehicles count as having moved at cruising speed"), and non-Fast vehicles that move at cruising speed cannot shoot any weapons, even defensive ones, according to page 58 ("Vehicles that moved at cruising speed may not fire").

I see where your friend is coming from too, but he's forgetting that nothing about being Immobilized inherently allows you to fire. 95% of the time an Immobilized vehicle will remain stationary in the Movement phase, and, having remained stationary, be allowed to fire as a stationary vehicle. However, that does not have to be the case. Drop pods are a rare instance of an Immobilized vehicle that can move at cruising speed during their [first] Movement phase. Which leaves us with this:

Vehicle moved at cruising speed. Page 95 says vehicles that move at cruising speed may not fire.
Vehicle is Immobilized. Nothing in the rulebook says that Immobilized vehicles may fire.
Immobilized vehicles ordinarily cannot move. But this one definitely did move - see #1.

[HsojVvad]

I don't know about these rules much, but when I played agaisnt SM players, the drop pod shot at me on the turn it arrived. So either he tired to pull a fast one over me ( wich isn't the case because he helped me in almost everything from me being a newbie) so either he and the group I was with played it wrong, or you can do it.

I guess this dosn't help, but to show you that other players play it as they do.

[DarkLink]

If he knew, he probably forgot. I know I would, at least with storm bolters. For some reason when it comes to storm bolters on vehicles, I either forget to fire them, or forget that I can't fire them after moving a Rhino more than 6".

Yet at the same time I can remember that you can't fire a deathwind missile launcher the turn you deepstrike. Go figure:rolleyes:.

[The Dinosaur]

we play that pods can shoot when they drop. same as WC knight - it just makes sense :)

[Nabterayl]

We play with Deathstorms :p That makes sense.

[UltramarineFan]

Ye, Nabterayl is right, you cant shoot with the drop pod on the turn it comes down. The way the drop pod works is a bit confusing but if you apply your firends logic then you could say that if a normal vehicle moves at cruising speed then is immoblized at the end of that move(say by moving into terrain) then it would be able to shoot because its immoblized. Obviously this is wrong as it has moved at cruising speed. The same applies for the drop pod, on the turn it comes down it moves at cruising speed and then is immobilised, therefore it cannot shoot on the turn it comes down.

[gcsmith]

dnt drop pods have power of the machine spirit? if so then they can shoot because of that, at bs 2 of course :p

[therealjohnny5]

not in the Codex:SM....and interesting point, i never considered this before, i assumed they could fire especially bc they are defensive weapons, the stormbolter that is....interesting...

[gcsmith]

Ooh finally a BT advantage, we cant come 1st turn, but we can shoot :P

[UltramarineFan]

dnt drop pods have power of the machine spirit? if so then they can shoot because of that, at bs 2 of course :p

You need to look over the rules, drop pods dont have power of the machine spirit and if they did it would be at normal BS not 2

[Tynskel]

dnt drop pods have power of the machine spirit? if so then they can shoot because of that, at bs 2 of course :p

Only the Black Templar Drop Pods have Power of the Machine Spirit.

All other drop pods lost this rule.

I made this mistake for the longest of time- just thought they fired on impact.

The only problem is that the rule is buried in p. 95 of the rulebook.

Vehicles that Deep Strike count as moving 'Cruising Speed'.

Drop Pods do not have 'Fast', and cannot shoot the turn they come in. :(

This also explains why marines disembarking cannot charge: the vehicle moved before the marines disembarked.

[Nabterayl]

This also explains why marines disembarking cannot charge: the vehicle moved before the marines disembarked.
Disembarking drop pod passengers can't charge because the drop pod rules specifically say they can't charge. Otherwise it would be arguably permissible for them to do so, as drop pods are open-topped. The passengers of an open-topped vehicle may assault the turn they disembark regardless of whether their transport has moved or not (the debate in that case would be over whether the passengers counted as Deep Striking just because their transport Deep Struck; fortunately, the codex - for once - appears to have anticipated that debate and foreclosed it).

[askariraven]

What about the Tyrind myoptic spores, how do they resolve? there a monsterous creature with a reach attack out to 6 inches plus a weapon biomorph. would that item still get to shoot as well? since its not a veichle and the rules dont say anything about them not shooting (or at least i havent seen it, i could be wrong). thoughts?

[Tynskel]

What about the Tyrind myoptic spores, how do they resolve? there a monsterous creature with a reach attack out to 6 inches plus a weapon biomorph. would that item still get to shoot as well? since its not a veichle and the rules dont say anything about them not shooting (or at least i havent seen it, i could be wrong). thoughts?

Spore Pods are Monsterous Creatures. They may fire 2 weapons a turn. There is nothing in relation to how fast they move and restricted shooting.

[Nabterayl]

Tynskel's right. Remember that Deep Strike has nothing to do with shooting per se. It all comes down to the fact that Deep Strike counts as movement. In the case of vehicles, it counts as moving at cruising speed, and moving at cruising speed means that the drop pod can't shoot.

In the case of monstrous creatures, if you double check page 95, you'll see that monstrous creatures count as having moved in the turn they Deep Strike. It so happens that moving does not restrict a monstrous creature from shooting, so a mycetic spore that Deep Strikes can shoot on the turn that it does so.

[gannam]

I concur

Drop pods cannot shoot on arrival because they moved at cruising speed

Spore pods can shoot because they are not vehicles. Also remember that spore pods are not open topped either as some have tried to claim, so if you try and hide your zoanthropes behind your spore pods then the vehicles that you shoot at will get a cover save. Which really sucks if you can't pop that land raider.

[DarkLink]

I concur

Drop pods cannot shoot on arrival because they moved at cruising speed

Spore pods can shoot because they are not vehicles. Also remember that spore pods are not open topped either as some have tried to claim, so if you try and hide your zoanthropes behind your spore pods then the vehicles that you shoot at will get a cover save. Which really sucks if you can't pop that land raider.

Open topped has nothing at all to do with whether zoanthropes would get a cover save from it. Absolutely nothing in any way, shape or form.

[karandras]

While the fact that Deep Striking vehicles count as moving at Cruising Speed is buried in the rule book, it is definitely there.

Drop Pods cannot shoot on the turn they enter play.

Mycetic Spores can because they are MC not vehicles, as was already cited.

Moving along with this topic, in a case of Codex trumps BRB, does the Necron Monoloth actually gain an advantage here??? I believe the Codex entry, states that the main weapon can always be used and the secondary weapons are worded that they will always take D6 shots at every enemy unit within 12". Don't have the codex with me here at work, but I was curious on how you all play this. Seems the Necrons can use any help they can get at the moment!

[gannam]

Open topped has nothing at all to do with whether zoanthropes would get a cover save from it. Absolutely nothing in any way, shape or form.

I was simply referring to the fact that normally you can shoot directly through a drop pod because its open topped and cannot block LOS.

the spore pod CAN block LOS though, but I have seen a number of people claim that it is an open topped vehicles because it "behaves" like a drop pod.

[Lord Azaghul]

I was simply referring to the fact that normally you can shoot directly through a drop pod because its open topped and cannot block LOS.

the spore pod CAN block LOS though, but I have seen a number of people claim that it is an open topped vehicles because it "behaves" like a drop pod.

Well you can't see through an ork trukk and its open top!! The shannagans people try!:D

[DarkLink]

I was simply referring to the fact that normally you can shoot directly through a drop pod because its open topped and cannot block LOS.

the spore pod CAN block LOS though, but I have seen a number of people claim that it is an open topped vehicles because it "behaves" like a drop pod.

If they can position the zoanthrope in such a way that it isn't visible, the open topped doesn't matter. Or, to be more precise, the open topped rule doesn't really have anything to do with the actual shape of the model.

Regardless, you are correct. LOS is determined entirely by the actual model used to represent the spore, and has nothing to do with drop pods which are an entirely separate unit that have nothing to do with spore mine.

Though if a drop pod model is used to represent a spore mine, you would be able to see through it, unless you and your opponent agreed that it was solid.

[papa smurf]

nothing about the drop pod having the open topped rule makes the drop pod "see through." Sure, there are open spots in an open drop pod, but it can still potentially block true LOS with its five walls, seats, guns, etc.
being open topped only matters when determining stuff like damage.