Some Thoughts on Imperial Guard (Astra Militarum)

[Deacon Ix]

So I am getting very close to finishing my IG army and as such have been trawling through the codex. In general it is exactly what I wanted when I started building the army, lots of fluff and fun but there are a few things that I think could be altered slightly.
(I haven't get managed a game with a full guard army so bear in mind that this is just theory crafting! :D)

1. Points costs for Melee weapons, they are the same for my BAs as for the IG, and a lot less effective for the IG, S6 vs S8 is quite a difference against vehicles.

2. Deathstrike Missiles should be D weapons! - they are tank mounted titan weapons after all! and vortex to boot.

3. Platoon Command Squads should get teh 'Combined Squad' Special rule, ok so you could get 55 troops with FnP but you can do the same with an SM allied Apoc.

4. Flakk Missiles, this actually applies to all Imperial Codexs, they should be free issue with Missile Launchers, they arn't really all that effective and not really worth the extra points, it would also bring back missile launchers as the Swiss Army Knife of H Weapons.

5. Orders and Vox, 2 thoughts, 1)if a VoC gives and order to his own squad it can be re rolled regardless, and in order for another squad to get a reroll it has to have a Vox unit 2) an Officer with VoC can give an order to anyone within 12", if the VoC and commanded unit both have Vox the range is unlimited. (I tend to prefer #2 for fluff).

It is possibly a testimony to how much I like the current codex that I can only come up with 5 fairly minor tweeks, once I get some proper games under my belt I might feel differently, currently at 85/150 troops painted so hopefully soon!

Anyone have any other thoughts on the Imperial bullet screen?

[Djbz]

Number 1: Definitely- (I would even go so far as the 4th edition I think it was way of doing them where 1 wound characters get them even cheaper)
Number 2- Maybe, with the Apocalyptic mega blast rules on the innermost part
Number 3- Command squads just need more dudes in general (5 T3 5+ save dudes just don't last 5 seconds)
Number 4- yes- eldar got them for no extra, why should anyone else pay for them?
Number 5- I'd settle for Vox's being an option in Heavy/special weapon squads and if both units have vox's there being no VOC range limit.

Ogryns and rough riders need to be better, and most of the named characters are WAAAAAY too expensive

[Chris*ta]

I still don't know why Command Squads can't blob up with the rest of their platoon ... It's just so utterly strange as an idea to have the platoon in one mass, except for the officer and a few men.

I also badly want Sergeants to be able to take a lasgun instead of their laspistol. Purely for fluff reasons. I can't think of an army that issues pistols to NCOs. Arguably it should be extended so officers can have lasguns too. It's common in the modern day (with which I include most of the 20th C) for officers to carry a rifle to avoid the attention of enemy snipers.

[Deacon Ix]

I still don't know why Command Squads can't blob up with the rest of their platoon ... It's just so utterly strange as an idea to have the platoon in one mass, except for the officer and a few men.

I also badly want Sergeants to be able to take a lasgun instead of their laspistol. Purely for fluff reasons. I can't think of an army that issues pistols to NCOs. Arguably it should be extended so officers can have lasguns too. It's common in the modern day (with which I include most of the 20th C) for officers to carry a rifle to avoid the attention of enemy snipers.

Interestingly in a Renegade army the Renegade Champion can take a Lasgun, autogun or shotgun. I actually started the IG army as a Renegade Army but liked the IG codex and fluff so much I have tried to make them so they can be used for both.

[Tyrendian]

2. is purely due to age - when there's an update I'm pretty sure that will change!

[Zubrokan]

1. Sure. Now are simply too high.
2. I have no opinion really. But some D-power would be nice to have
3. Well, they need only to be slightly bigger, like +2 grunts - like we had with bodyguards before. Now we have to use regimental advisors only to add extra bodies, slightly stupid.
4. They need to be cheaper, maybe +5 points, but +10 is waaay too much. Anyway HWT are broken for me, I do not like the aesthetics of one bigger base in normal squad, I simply do not like it!
5. I think the voxes are OK. My view on "orders" are officer giving instruction regarding actual situation on battlefield, so they need to be close in order to have accurate view. In that case vox would enable better communication so reroll seems reasonable.

Now my few cents:
6. Medipacks are almost useless, however, there is "Imperial Army" or "Imperial Militia" from 30k has some unit of Corpsmen that can be attached to every unit - I would love it! Could get some limits, like i.e. max one succesfull save enabled per turn or something.
7. Priests. They are now maybe too strong, but limit of 3 is silly, I like priest in every squad and now I have to either go unbound or ally sisters. BTW that is sometimes nice, Uriah Jacobus goes well with Bullgryns. Also, I miss eviscerators. Would be nice for demo vets.
8. Special characters - when they were dropped, I expected blunt money grab attempt from GW and that they all will come back in dataslates. Now I'm sad that I was wrong. We do not even have stats for all the models that are made - Chancers and Gaunt do not have nothing.
9. Rough riders need to be simply dropped and replaced with Death Riders from Krieg. That would make my day!

[Deacon Ix]

@ Zubrokan

3. I was talking about Platoon Command squads but your comment does stand for Company Command Squad - some more grunts would be nice.
6. Totally, that was teh thinking behing giving the platoon command squad 'combined squad'
7. Meh, IMO if you are in CC with IG you have failed somewhere.
8. Yes!
9. Probably, they actually haven't even come onto my radar, which probably means I wouldn't even consider them, my FA slots are taken up by other stuff.


and having had a though I have another one.

10. Standards - as I said earlier, if IG is in CC I consider it a failure, so IMO the Platoon standard is pointless and as the Platoon Command Squad can't join with anything else - doubly so.

Additional: Krieg death corps would be awesome as a whole as a standard plastic set.

[Arkhan Land]

I think with CC youre right IG are kind of useless in terms of their ability to invest points decently in CC, that said, like all imperial armies we get to battle brother ally with Inquisition so you could be taking Crusaders and Deathcult assasins (with a priest/mysitc each unit) flavor for tackling backfield defensive issues or for gettin on in there, Ive had some great fun sending 10 daemonhosts and an inquisitor out the front of a land raider crusader directly into a weak point in an opponents gunline while still putting out shots

[odinsgrandson]

On #1

Price of X item is actually something GW's designers have considered benefits or weaknesses of factions. Basically, if your army is supposed to be bad at something, but still have some access to that something, then they just give it to you way overpriced.

The Imperial Guard have always had something like that going on. Basically, the weapons that the designers don't want the Guard to rely on are overpriced. Especially melee weapons.

The 2nd edition first started up having different costs for weapons for different factions or units, and IG's melee stuff was definitely pricier than it deserved to be.

In one edition (I think it was 4th, but I forget) they even overpriced the Lascannons in hopes that more guard would use missile launchers.

In 4th, you could also gear up all of your grunt guardsmen with laspistols and melee weapons- but you ended up paying way too much for guardsmen that effectively weren't better than they were with lasguns.

[Charon]

The Imperial Guard have always had something like that going on. Basically, the weapons that the designers don't want the Guard to rely on are overpriced. Especially melee weapons.

They are the same price in every codex no matter if it is melee based or not. Even if you have an melee army that "should" rely on it you end up with an overpriced weapon. A 15 points energy weapon will always be more beneficial to a chaptermaster than to a khorne champion or even to a Dark Eldar Wych.

[Chris*ta]

Additional: Krieg death corps would be awesome as a whole as a standard plastic set.

Best I can do you:
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/image/cache/data/a-new/MOTN/5-figures-800x500.jpg
http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/image/cache/data/a-new/MOTN/borderers-heavy-400x400.jpg

From Anvil Industry (http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/Miniatures-of-the-North/Imperial-Borderers).
And no, I don't know why they haven't expanded the line, that would be a license to print money.

[odinsgrandson]

They look good. I like the proportions they have as well.

[Haighus]

IIRC, it isn't actually Anvil's model line, I think they produce the miniatures for someone else. Can't remember exactly though.

[Filthy Casual]

Miniatures of the North, the guy doesn't seem overly interesting in 28mm Sci Fi right now, according to his blog anyway

[odinsgrandson]

That is a shame, since these guys look so good.

I'm not sure that making more would necessarily be printing money, but they definitely look good.

[Da Gargoyle]

I rather think that the decision to tie everything into the command squad was a bit short sighted. For example, its logical that a Commissar would start off with the command squad, but it is as logical that if he sees a unit wavering he would detach himself to visit said unit to provide a bit of moral fibre and intestinal fortitude, (Plus firing some warning shots into the closest head).

Vox casters were a lot more flexible in the old days and as was pointed out, a heavy weapons unit is exactly the unit you want minute fire control with and ideal for the old VC rules. Like forward observers with the rifle platoon calling the heavy weapons teams for fire where it is most needed.

And finally, the regimental advisers are more like the Warlocks are to Eldar HQ. A unit relevant to HQ but one that should be able to operate independently. Like the Master of Ordnance, again really a FOO calling the heavy stuff down. And even a Commissar would think twice about telling Psykers their business.

[Ang56]

I still don't know why Command Squads can't blob up with the rest of their platoon ... It's just so utterly strange as an idea to have the platoon in one mass, except for the officer and a few men.

I also badly want Sergeants to be able to take a lasgun instead of their laspistol. Purely for fluff reasons. I can't think of an army that issues pistols to NCOs. Arguably it should be extended so officers can have lasguns too. It's common in the modern day (with which I include most of the 20th C) for officers to carry a rifle to avoid the attention of enemy snipers.

I was issued a sidearm from the time i was an E-5 onward (US Army). And I think officers with rifles is less about snipers they'll spot you if they want either way. Giving them rifles makes them not useless, pistols are pretty terrible when compared to rifles in almost any situation as anything more then a back-up or for remaining armed in fairly secure locations when you don't want to be packing around a rifle.

As to 40k though I agree it's a bit crazy you don't have the option to lasgun equip sergeants and officers though I just pay the 1 point and toss Boltguns on them all. I actually think the boltguns look good on the models and they are better then lasguns, they are about as effective as first rank second rank so you don't really lose anything on the order either. like 10-15 points for the whole army and your sergeants and officers contribute instead of having pistol / ccw.

[Ang56]

On #1

Price of X item is actually something GW's designers have considered benefits or weaknesses of factions. Basically, if your army is supposed to be bad at something, but still have some access to that something, then they just give it to you way overpriced.

The Imperial Guard have always had something like that going on. Basically, the weapons that the designers don't want the Guard to rely on are overpriced. Especially melee weapons.

In one edition (I think it was 4th, but I forget) they even overpriced the Lascannons in hopes that more guard would use missile launchers.

Agree with you on that several editions ago but everything is fairly standardized for the last 2 editions with everyone paying the same for the more universal weapons and wargear. They don't really tweak the prices at all.

I wouldn't want to see power weapons and fists as commonplace in guard but they are pretty worthless at the current costs, they should reduce the price to be viable then limit them to specific units (probably senior officers, commisars maybe storm trooper platoon leaders (not squad leaders)). I'd throw a fist on those guys sometimes if it was 10-15 pts, it'd still suck and be unreliable, but i'd like the models and not feel it was a total waste.

[odinsgrandson]

Well, whenever they standardize the weapon costs, the models with poorer stats end up paying more for their weaponry than they can expect to get out of them.

They've gone back and forth about that in different editions (in the Rogue Trader days, everyone used the same wargear lists, and you had odd things like Marines with Shuriken Catipults). In 2nd ed, they made marines who hit on 2+ pay more for their heavy weaponry than the orks that hit on 4+. Then in 3rd ed, they made the devastators pay more than tactical marines for the same weapons.

The Imperial Guard have always been something that GW had very specific ideas for how they 'should' play- but they also tend to believe that the imperial guard should be super diverse and have loads of irregular tactics available to them.

In the 4th ed codex (or maybe it was late 3rd) they gave you the option of swapping out everyone's lasguns for laspistols and CC weapons- or two close combat weapons. But they charged you 2 points each (on 6 point models) to do it- so you ended up paying out the nose to have your infantry be less effective than ever.