Pentacles, Tentacle, Wallet and Whaaaa?

[Mr Mystery]

Afternoon all.

Very quick skive from my overtime shift to bring you a pondering.

In short...

Dear Chaos

Where's all the gribbly mutations, matey?

Love and hugs

Mr Mystery.



Yep. They're just sort of....gone. And that's a shame. Consider World Eater Berserkers. For the most part, they've been knocking around since the Great Crusade - yet there's no real physical mutation. Same as Deathguard, same as Emperor's Children. I'm getting the feeling Ahriman might be looking around and feeling a bit of a mug as it seems the Rubric wasn't actually necessary at all.

So what gives? We've got the spikes. We've got the daemon blended stuff (which I like!)....but....nothing gribbly

Lookit what they used to have...

http://store.wargamingtrader.com/system/files/imagecache/product_full/C2297%20-%20RoC%20Renegade%20Chaos%20Space%20Marine%20Unit% 201987%20%20%20%20%2012-10-2.jpg

Unt my personal favourite

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2012/113/4/a/tentacle_armed_chaos_space_marine_by_geemaa_pix-d4xamlf.jpg

I get there's kind of a new, less riotous aesthetic, and that's fine - but surely there's space for both aesthetics within the range? I feel like the more uniform nature of Chaos models has stifled Chaos Creativity - I just don't see the interesting kit bashes I used to.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Completely agree, always felt the chaos marine models missed the mark and were never nightmarish or mutated enough, at least not for me. Yeah those old Rogue trader ones had a lot more style to them, sort of HR giger-ish.

My fave were the two tzeentch marines at the top left : http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rc0222renegades/cat1989p018x-01.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Yarp.

Personally, I'm not looking for full on 'lump of tentacles with a bolter', so much as a bit of old fashioned body horror. A fused weapon here, a displaced head there, hands mutated into claws - that sort of thing.

Ideally, a single 5 man plastic kit of 'mutated Marines*' - so ala Space Woofs and Blangels etc you can distribute them about squads to get some gribbly in there. Sort of look I'd find spot on is showing a CSM embarked on the path to becoming an Obliterator type - you can tell they're a way off, but also it's very much a one way street.

The possessed kit is fine, but the parts, by and large, are designed for the more dynamically posed so don't always look so good on the more staid Chaos Marines.

Thankfully, we're starting to see some of this come through in the Warhammer kits. Blightkings and the big Khorne guys both feature mtuations. Some relatively subtle, others pretty grotesque, but doubtless a mark of the master's favour.


*better name required!

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yarp.

Personally, I'm not looking for full on 'lump of tentacles with a bolter', so much as a bit of old fashioned body horror. A fused weapon here, a displaced head there, hands mutated into claws - that sort of thing.

Ideally, a single 5 man plastic kit of 'mutated Marines*' - so ala Space Woofs and Blangels etc you can distribute them about squads to get some gribbly in there. Sort of look I'd find spot on is showing a CSM embarked on the path to becoming an Obliterator type - you can tell they're a way off, but also it's very much a one way street.

The possessed kit is fine, but the parts, by and large, are designed for the more dynamically posed so don't always look so good on the more staid Chaos Marines.

Thankfully, we're starting to see some of this come through in the Warhammer kits. Blightkings and the big Khorne guys both feature mtuations. Some relatively subtle, others pretty grotesque, but doubtless a mark of the master's favour.


*better name required!

Those Forge world World Bearers (The tainted dreadnought and Gal Vorbak especially) are a step in the right direction for me as they seemed to get the balance right just right. There should definitely be the option to go from more subtle to full on as chaos players are by and large are pretty diverse.

[Ben_S]

I agree with you. I don't know when the change happened. The 3rd edition Codex still had pictures of some pretty cool mutated marines (though most were converted) and they had the mutation sprue packaged with the CSMs. Now though it seems as if the focus has moved more towards Renegades than Legions (albeit Renegades who suddenly forgot/lost a lot of tactics and equipment...)

I think the problem with Chaos, since at least 2nd edition, has been GW not really knowing what to do with them. Are they marine-based or cultists, daemons, and mutants? Are they from the Heresy or modern defectors? Are they mono-god or several?

[Lord Manton]

I was talking about this with the gang just last night.
I hope the latest SM release is at least a little bit of a sign of things to come. Rather than putting Space Marines in your Space Marines, they revamped a couple of the older kits, making them really nice. If they could update the CSM kit and probably the Havoc box (as well as the cult marines) it would be a great opportunity to add in a nice, shiny new mutations sprue. The old mutation sprue really shows its age IMHO.
That said, a lot of the fun of Chaos is being able to do your own mutations and really have some fun with your modelling skills.

[Mr Mystery]

Old mutation sprue was for the first multi-part Chaos Warriors for Warhammer, released back in 1997....so yeah, definitely needs a redo!

For fans of the current range, I'm not knocking the baroque armour look - I just think they could do with adding more mutantions to it.

[Chris*ta]

The CSM Possessed want to say hi.
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120102022_ChaosPossessedNEW_01.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

It's not the same.

They're nice, but they're possessed, rather than mutated 'normal' dudes - and if I'm remembering the background right, it's invited rather than forced possession.

I want to see the physical ramifications of following Chaos represented on the board again is all.

[completeHook]

15443 15444 15445

Lots of pretty gribley bits in the Warriors of Chaos Forsaken kit (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Forsaken).

If you were to use them it would probably have to be quite sparingly otherwise they would start to look like Possessed CSM. The Chosen in Dark Vengeance manage to walk to line, sergeant with the third eye and the bolter tentacle is right on the money.

[Arkhan Land]

I agree, altogether integrated weapons into arms is my most favorite missing aesthetic, I usually try and recreate it when im making some real nasty fellows

[Denzark]

Completely agree, always felt the chaos marine models missed the mark and were never nightmarish or mutated enough, at least not for me. Yeah those old Rogue trader ones had a lot more style to them, sort of HR giger-ish.

My fave were the two tzeentch marines at the top left : http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rc0222renegades/cat1989p018x-01.jpg

I run original legionnaires in my CSM army. I have put off painting all the tzeentch until last- while I work out how to deal with the fluff of rubric versus obvious tzeentch mutations...

[completeHook]

There are 10,000 years worth of renegades to be blessed by the Changer of the Ways. Although the Eye of Terror, let alone the galaxy is a big place it's not inconceivable a former Thousand Sons sorcerer and his rubric charges would find their goals aligning with some of those renegades.

[Cactus]

I agree. Heck, some of the legion of the damned look more chaotic than the berserkers.

[thanoson]

I agree. I miss the old RT days of chaos. Bring back chaos that's not just humans. Warbands used to look dynamic with possibilities of ogres, ratlings, even orks. Marines with spikes is just, meh.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yeah, Chaos is just humans and daemons at current. I still really want to see chaos aliens (and not chaos versions of existing ones) - plenty of room for some really warped and messed up stuff there, plus if we never knew what those creatures looked like before they were corrupted it adds a bit more mystery to them. They should really just hire me :(

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I've seen some speculation that the Thyrrus may be Chaos aliens - since their quirk is treating battle like a bizarre performance, this speculation simply assumes the Chaos Gods are the intended audience.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/6/68/Thyrrus_battle.jpg/300px-Thyrrus_battle.jpg

On the note of mutation, I get the impression that the current multipart design philosophy's holding it back a bit. It works well for just sticking a normal arm onto a model, but when that arm is now a massive claw or tentacle, it seems awkward when that mutation isn't spread/reflected across the rest of the model. The Gal Vorbak are a massive step in the right direction, though.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The Thyruss do have a bit of a Slaanesh vibe to them dont they?

The Possessed look too cartoony to me and I think you hit on why, and also why the Gal Vorbak look a ton better...

[Haighus]

Yeah, I agree with completeHook, the DV Chosen really fit the bill for what Mr Mystery is saying for me, I would like Mystery's opinion on them in this regard. The Chosen have a lot of 'soft' mutations, and the changes to their armour have a much more... biological look than the just spikes, edging and horns look of most of the current models. The Raptors are similar, but have less mutated armour and I feel this suits the fact they are less powerful followers of Chaos, less successful.

On the other hand, a Chaos Xenos race, like the Saruthi or the Laer would be awesome (obviously either of those examples aren't great because they have both been exterminated by the IoM). I think it would work for a multi-part kit if it is designed around the theme and are not designed in a way that is intended to also fit with non-mutated models.

[Mr Mystery]

Chosen are much closer to what I'd like to see, though ideally I'd want to see more gribbly options along with the more subtle stuff.

Age of Sigmar is getting right for me at the moment. You can make a relative 'mess of tentacles' type stuff if you so wish, but most can be used quite sparingly. For instance, on the Skull Reavers, the champion has a Scorpion Claw hand option. Blightkings can be just skanky obsess bruisers, or significantly mutated.

That's what I want to see in 40k :)

[Denzark]

I meant to post some Legionnaires, got round to snapping.

First up, some Noise Marines:

http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy257/denzark/nostalgia/IMG_1109_zps2wvlzdre.jpg



Next up, Plague Marines.


http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy257/denzark/nostalgia/IMG_1108_zps3ocu3xcp.jpg


Lastly, Emperor's Children:


http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy257/denzark/nostalgia/IMG_1107_zpsmymtl4lj.jpg



Common theme(s) - mutations, garish as f*ck, or mutations with garishness. This is not as an homage to oldhammer Eavy metal schemes but just preference.

[Mr Mystery]

Suitably gnarly dude!

I really, really want to see those sorts of mutations back in 40k.

You know, I may attempt a CSM/forsaken kitbash this month. See what I can come up with.

[Denzark]

make sure you show the results...

[Mr Mystery]

I shall!

Need to buy the kits first though. Likely next weekend.

[Wolfshade]

awesome

[Denzark]

As an aside, I mentioned my tzeentch legionnaires earlier.

I am buying up original RT discs for them.

What Codex CSM unit should I use these to represent? I am torn between bikers or raptors at the mo...

[Mr Mystery]

As an aside, I mentioned my tzeentch legionnaires earlier.

I am buying up original RT discs for them.

What Codex CSM unit should I use these to represent? I am torn between bikers or raptors at the mo...

Size wise? Raptors I'd say.

[Mr Mystery]

Goodness me!

It's Mr Mystery! He's been shopping...

Box of Chaos Marines, box of Forsaken. More later when I've had a gander and a play.

[Mr Mystery]

So I've had a wee play with the two kits.

My first two experiments have been captured in my patented crap-o-vision for your viewing delectation.

Both have similar basis. CSM legs, right arm and power packs. The rest of the parts, barring a shoulder pad are off the Forsaken.

There's a bit of a size mis-match between torso and legs, so they're not perfect. To give a rough idea, the Forsakdn torsos are more 'true scale' than the CSM ones.

Next experiment may involved Raptor/Warp Talon bits, just to see what I can come up with.

[Mikhail233]

May wanna crop out your credit card

[Mr Mystery]

A fair point well made.

It's expired though, and I keep that one near its limit for reasons of building a credit rating.

[daboarder]

May wanna crop out your credit card

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

smart move

HAHAHA