Starting SM advise wanted .

[Lord Azaghul]

Ok so I got a little excited this week and started my space marine army. I plan on running a crimson fist theme, but not necissarily running Pedro (at all time).

Since I started as an IG player I have plenty of experience killing marines, but I am intriged by drop pods, and DSing some termies. I do want to cap my total pointage off at 2500, with the ability to build a few flexable 1750, but I want to be able to built a 2500 in a single FOC.


I picked up the AoBr set,
1 Battalion box
1 Tactical Box
2 Drop Pods
2 extra rhinos
1 Dakka Pred
I also have 2 librarians
2 Techprest, 4 servitors,
an Apothicary
and about 15 random metal SM

At the moment I'm thinking of some
HQ:
Captain: set up undetermined on all HQ.
Command Squad
Librarian

Troops:
4x 10 man Tactial Squads, 3 in Rhinos, flamer/ ML set up, or Melta/ML set up. Debating on Powerfist. Might Drop down to 2 in rhinos and give HQ the 3rd rhino.

5 Scouts, mainly outflanking

Fast: 1 5man Assult squad - probably DSing

Elite: 5 Stern Guard Combi, 2melta/2flamer
Drop Pod with Locator Beacon
1 Dreadnought Multimelta
Drop Pod Deathwind
6 Terminators 1 Cyclone ML mainly DS

Heavy:
Pred AC/HB

2kish

***
Now for fast attack I'm thinking 2 land speeders multimelta, heavy flamer, run individual

For Heavy I'm thinking a LC Pred, or a second Dakka Pred.
A Vindicator is tempting, but I do plan on picking up a 3rd Drop Pod, and I don't think S10 Pie plates compliment my list. I really don't want a Land Raider, so the pretty much leaves me with a devistator squad.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Helpful hints in playing SM's?

[codiddy]

If you want to run fluffy, the crimson fists are supposed to like a 4 heavy bolter dev squad. Personally, I have had good results lately with a full squad of 10 devs with 2 heavy bolters and 2 missle launchers, split into combat squads. That way if I want to shoot the missle launchers at vehicles I don't have to waste the bolter shots. For reference I mostly play against orks and IG.

[tjkopena]

My two cents:

I kind of think you should beef up the 5 man squads. Five scouts are just asking to be eaten for lunch. Sternguard are tougher, but not that much. If you really want to Outflank the scouts and only run 5, maybe put them in a Landspeeder Storm? It's a cool model at the least. For the Sternguard, I think it's worth running 10 so they don't get wiped out. If they really don't have any kind of threat like that then you can always Combat Squad them coming out of the Drop Pod.

I would say you should eventually assemble both flamers and meltas for the Tac squads. Which you take depends a lot on what you'll be up against. If it's one or the other, I'd default to meltas as the priority.

Keep the captain pretty cheap. He's not a monster, so it's real easy to lose all his points. You can probably gain points for the above unit expansions by dropping the Command Squad. If they were a retinue it'd be a lock to protect the HQs, but as is... They're almost tempting to bring, but I always feel like the points are better spent elsewhere.

Dakka preds are always good buys, they've done me well, and at this point I basically feel like Marines should never leave him without MM/HF Landspeeders...

I'm also a big fan of Devastators; I have some lengthy comments on them here:
http://rocketshipgames.com/blog/?p=110

[mercer]

At the moment the units you're thinking of taking have little synergy.

A captain is a ok HQ choice. But the command squad do not add anything besides being bodybags.

Librarian is ok, best with nullzone and with terminators as they cause invulnerable saves with all those power weapons etc.

Sternguard need to be a bigger unit.

Scouts need to be bigger, but tbh with what you've listed I don't think you'll get them in anyway.

Assault squad won't do anything at that size. You need 10 and then two units.

You only have 2 pods if I've read corrrectly to this means only one pod will drop in the first turn, which will be left un-supported.

You should take tanks in pairs for unit support and redundancy.

[Lord Azaghul]

Alright lads, thanks for the feed back.

I might be able to expand the jump packs to 10 (just need a few more backs) - I do agree that 5 is far to small.

Stermguard. I'll be converting them anyway, so I may drop a tactial squad and the command squad, that should more then free up enough points.

I do plan on buying a 3rd drop pod, the stuff listed above is what I have now to start with.

So a pair of dakka pred, and 2 multimelta/heavy flamers would be a good adidtion to what I want to do? And possibly a devistator squad to fill out the 3rd heavy support choice. I hadn't thought about combat squading them but I really like that idea.

Thanks for the input - keep it coming.

[Lord Azaghul]

Ok here a list I like the idea of.
Chapter Master
Librarian: Epistolary

Troops

10 man Tact Squad, Flamer ML
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML Powerfist
Drop Pod
5 Scouts

Fast
10 man Assult Squad
2 Landspeeders multimelta/HF (not squaded

Elite:
10 Sternguard combimeltax2 combi flamerx1
Drop Pod w/ locator beacon
Dreadnought multimelta stormbolter
Drop Pod w/ deathwind
5 Termies Cyclone ML

Heavy
2x Dakka Pred
10 Devistator Squad HBx2 MLx2
Rhino


Its roughly 2500. I may need to change a few things to provide upgrades for the chapter master.

[tjkopena]

It's definitely looking more solid (my 2 cents).

I would say the Chapter Master's 25 points would be better spent elsewhere. Bombardment sounds cool, but I've never been sold on its value. I'd rather put those points toward a teleport homer on a Tac Squad to bring down the Termies in case the Locator gets torched, or a Powerfist in one of the Tac Squads.

[mercer]

Ok a chapter master doesn't offer anything extra over a normal captain besides the bombardment. So I'd change to a captain and trim down those points.

Are you going to combat squad your tacticals? If so razorbacks add some nice fire power what you've lost from the squad being smaller.

5 scouts will get wasted very quickly.

Assault squad will still die, take another unit or drop it.

Should take dreadnoughts in pairs for support. So drop the terminators seems they do not have a land raider, which is better delivery than deep striking in.

Not keen on devs. They cost too much; though combat squading them is a ok idea.

[Lord Azaghul]

Ok a chapter master doesn't offer anything extra over a normal captain besides the bombardment. So I'd change to a captain and trim down those points.

Are you going to combat squad your tacticals? If so razorbacks add some nice fire power what you've lost from the squad being smaller.

5 scouts will get wasted very quickly.

Assault squad will still die, take another unit or drop it.

Should take dreadnoughts in pairs for support. So drop the terminators seems they do not have a land raider, which is better delivery than deep striking in.

Not keen on devs. They cost too much; though combat squading them is a ok idea.

Scouts: I'm still up in the air about that, but since they come in the battalion box (that I already bought) I want to find a use for them. Sniper rifles and camo cloaks?

Assult squad. I might just drop them. I do like the idea of them. But i don't think I want 20 of 'em. Again, I already have a few models for them... Drop them for a Landspeeder storm?...I'm not sure I wan to buy that as well as the other stuff I still need to buy!

I do think dropping down the HQ to a captain is probably the best idea, I didn't realized that the bombardment was really the only benifit of the Chapter master.

Other Q's. How necessary is the librarian? Or the Captain for that matter? Would it be better to stick to a single HQ?

Landraider: This is one thing (the other is bikes) I am firm on NOT buying. It seems like every SM/SW/DA/BA/CM/ect player takes them. I really want to keep that out of my army. It stikes me as far to defensive. Part of the reason I want to keep the Termies is to DS multiple units at one, IE the assult troops as well.

[tjkopena]

I think the assault squad is actually fine. The thing is, you can't always use it as a super aggressive, gung-ho CC unit because they're just not super tooled out for it compared to some other CC specialists. They can do it against Guard and such, but otherwise it has to be done carefully. What they are good at though is using their mobility to quickly jump into assaults that other units are already engaged in, swinging the balance in your favor.

The problem w/ sniper and camo scouts in your case is that the guys in the battle box are just normal dudes. I have the same issue---I want to use some I have laying around, but haven't really figured out a great use. Right now I'm inclined to have a project converting some sniper rifles for them and making gilly suits as camo cloaks...

I'm totally with you on the Landraider, I also just don't want to get one. I think DSing Termies is totally reasonable, particularly if you have a couple Locator Beacons or Teleport Homers so that they're more likely to easily come down where you need them. In bigger games I usually run a group of them and have been pretty happy with it. If you can get them down inside a castled up mech Guard deployment with a chainfist or two it can be really awesome just walking down the line popping tanks.


All the HQs are kind of give-or-take unless you're running the special characters. I run a generic Captain and Librarian, but you could definitely get away with just the Librarian. He is generally really useful for the Psychic Hood, and I usually take nullzone to help take down Terminators and other invulnerables as well as completely gut Daemons. Again though, you just need to be mindful that neither the captain nor Libby are CC monsters, so you have to kind of keep them away from Power Klaws and so on.

[Lord Azaghul]

Thanks for the feed back guys. I'll just have to play a few games and proxy a few things to figure out what works best for me.

[Sir Biscuit]

For the assault marines...
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?t=5303

I would also drop the regular termies in favor of TH/SS ones. Terminators are decent at range, but the melee smackdown is what you're really paying for. In that respect, TH/SS are give up their shooting in exchange for a HUGE bump in survivability and melee effectiveness. In addition, you can use the terminators you already have, as a lot of places will let you order thunder hammers and storm shields as an individual sprue.

5 Scouts with camo cloaks will actually be surprisingly durable, as they can sit on a back objective and plink. No one shoots at 3+ cover scouts when you have heavy hitters on the table. I highly recommended giving them a missile launcher, as it really ups their effectiveness.

Weaknesses I see in your list:
1.) Weak against heavy infantry. You don't bring anything really capable of wasting 3+ or 2+ saves in numbers, and this can be critical. Often, what swings a game is your ability to kill of a unit of MEQs quickly. Luckily, this is an easy fix. Turn the missile launchers in your tactical squads into plasma cannons for an easy 15 points and the problem's solved.
2.) Weak against monstrous creatures. You can mitigate this somewhat by using a refused flank. (Localizing your forces on one side of the table in order to engage as little as possible at any given time.) Mostly, you need to concentrate a lot of different shooting from a lot of different units in order to kill them. Make the termies TH/SS will help with this, as they can eat MC's with impunity.
3.) Sternguard. Two of the best things about sternguard are cheap heavy weapons and really cheap combi-weapons. Instead of the cyclone launcher on your termies, you could fit an additional 6 combi-weapons in that sternguard squad, or two lascannons. That's a lot more firepower! especially if you invest that in combi-meltas... you can be sure 1-2 vehicles are going to be dead when that squad drops.

Let us know how your games go, and remember, take all advice with a grain of salt. (Except mine, of course. ;)) What works for you may be different that what works for other people. The only way to find out is through a lot of proxy, a lot of patience, and a LOT of playing.

[Lord Azaghul]

Thanks for the link to the assault marines article, good write up.

[Lord Azaghul]

The more I thought about it the more I wanted to go back to vindicators in the heavy. Those devistators are very expensive, and can't dish out the fire power. 2 Vindicators should draw lots of fire, enabling my tact squads, and assault troops to more in easier (hopefully)

I still like the idea of the command squad, the apothicary is just cool! So I still may work that into it, it also otherwise leaves me with having bought 1 rhino too many otherwise! I really like the idea of running these guys with meltas - sort of like shock troopers.

After a bit more codex reading. I also like the idea (and look of the models) of using the scouts as fire support. It was mainly the hellfire bolter round. Being heavy1 blast, wounds on a 2+ seems very useful!

SO here's what I may shoot for in my over all collection:

SM Captain
Command Squad meltax3
Rhino
Librarian: Epistolary

Troops

10 man Tact Squad, Flamer Plasma Cannon
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML Powerfist
Drop Pod
5 Scouts w/ heavy bolter

Fast
10 man Assult Squad flamer, pp, sarg w/ pf
2 Landspeeders multimelta/HF (not squaded)

Elite:
10 Sternguard combimeltax4
Drop Pod w/ locator beacon
Dreadnought multimelta stormbolter
Drop Pod w/ deathwind
5 Termies Cyclone ML

Heavy
1 Dakka Pred
2 Vindicators

It leaves my a little over 2500 (like 2600)
But the standard games we play are 1750 and 2k, so that should give me flexabily to do what I want!

This list also maximized the models I have already bought, and leaves me needed to buy: the 2 vindicators, 2 landspeeders and 1 drop pod.

One last Q: If I'm reading the enty correct for techpriest/master of the forge and servitors. I can only buy servitors IF i have one of those two AND the stupid servitors still take up an additional elite slot? If so that was really dumb.

[codiddy]

I use a command squad all the time and have had great success with it. The feel no pain allows them to shrug off some pretty serious shooting. You just have to be careful with them since they still wear power armor. I like to put them in a razorback to support the back lines. Unless you're wantng the ability to shoot the meltas from the rhinos top hatch, I would definitely reccomend a razorback since you won't be able to take advantage of the rhinos full capacity and its just too cheap to not throw the heavy bolter on there. For the points a command squad are really just relatively inexpensive veterans who don't take up an elite or fast attack slot. I do like the company champion upgrade, again the power sword, combat shield and WS 5 seems well worth the points. Also you have a pretty good amount of melta, you might want to consider keeping most of them with just bolt pistols and chainswords to keep the cost down. Like others said though, you'll know whats gonna work best for your own needs

[mercer]

The thing about a command squad they don't offer much. See with mass meltas they'll just be a suicide unit popping tanks and then benig shot up next turn. They'll also act as bodybags for the captain. Personally I'd rather take terminators if you like close combat or sternguard if you like shooting.

5 scouts with a heavy bolter aren't going to achieve a lot. Lose just one and you're taking morale tests.

Problem with the assault squad is they're on foot and no doubt you'll take wounds. This is why I said take 2 squads, it gives you unit redundancy and multiple threat. I used to use one assault squad and it would make combat with roughly 3-5 marines once they'd been shot down. Now I started using 2 assault squads and either one would be wiped out near enough or both take wounds but no so many. My point is a single squad won't last long and with another unit it gives redudnancy and multiple targets. I would strongly consider this.

I would drop the terminators as no transport and get another dreadnought for the same reasons as the assault squad as above.

Rest looks ok though.

[codiddy]

One last Q: If I'm reading the enty correct for techpriest/master of the forge and servitors. I can only buy servitors IF i have one of those two AND the stupid servitors still take up an additional elite slot? If so that was really dumb.


yes and no. you can only get servitors if you have a techmarine/master of the forge, but the servitors don't count against your elites.


The thing about a command squad they don't offer much. See with mass meltas they'll just be a suicide unit popping tanks and then benig shot up next turn. They'll also act as bodybags for the captain. Personally I'd rather take terminators if you like close combat or sternguard if you like shooting.

And I still must respectfully disagree about the command squad just being bodybags. They definitely aren't as shooty as sternguard, but have the veteran statline for a cheaper price than you can find anywhere else in the codex, and won't use an extra FOC slot. You just have to use them wisely. Plus taking them lets you shove another razorback into your army. With power armor and feel no pain they can really take a beating in CC and even have a decent chance of taking a battlecannon to the face without dying.

I do agree though, that with triple meltas they basically become a pricey suicide squad. Keep them cheap though, and they are a great squad to support your other CC units.




5 scouts with a heavy bolter aren't going to achieve a lot. Lose just one and you're taking morale tests.

I agree 5 scouts won't do too much, but you'd actually need to lose 2 to take a morale test, since 1 scout would only be 20%



I would drop the terminators as no transport and get another dreadnought for the same reasons as the assault squad as above.

Consider an ironclad. really, really, nasty DCCW options, extra armor built in, and AV13. My ultramarines rarely go to battle without brother Miltiades supporting them.

[mercer]

Well the command squad will be bodybags because they have no invulnerable saves so against a dedicated c.c unit they will get hammered and die.

[Lord Azaghul]

Well the command squad will be bodybags because they have no invulnerable saves so against a dedicated c.c unit they will get hammered and die.

Keep in mind I'm building my overall collection. Not just a single list!
The CS does strike me as very expensive, but they may be a fun fluff choice, showing up in the rare game. Ever since 'Dawn of War, I've just loved the idea of an apothicary (it also game me a liking of assult troops!)

[therealjohnny5]

I played CF for a long time and if you're interested in fluff, they rely heavily on Scouts, Heavy support, and Elite Gurad. For instance, a great combo is 10 man sniper squad with HB and Telion in cover that you bolster with the Master of the Forge. comes up with a 2+ cover...impossible to get them out of. I have a tau player friend who doesn't even bother shooting at them, and that's a mistake. With telion you can loan his high BS to the heavy weapon guy or shoot and select where wounds go (he has rending). The MotF is also fluffy as CF often take many heavies. and if you have open HS slots allows you to take Dreads as HS if you fill out your Elite slots.

ANd i agree with you Preds are great, but 2 Vidicators and a Dev squad is a nasty combo. I almost always take Razorbacks with my Devs as a fire base. The vidi's are huge gun magnets but with two it's super stressful for most players. And those large templates are awesome.

Pedro is great bc he allows Sternguard to claim objectives, and stern are awesome in fire dept. I take a couple combi weapons but thats all the upgrades usually. And a note with the librarian, using gate of infinity along with drop pod locator beacons allows you to jump around with a squad (sternguard or LotD) and fire\ RF into enemy units. It's a great technique. I'll take Dpods with LB for whoever i can (if i don't need a transport) and drop them empty just to have extra beacons lying around. A scout biker squad with LB is also a good choice, though they aren't tremendously resilient.

A not on the Termies, 5 aren't really that great a threat and die surprisingly easy with massed fire. To take a 5 man with pedro in a LR is a solid idea, or Pedro with a diesel honor guard in a LR is a good close combat unit. Typically i've always play CF with more of a shooty feel with one or two dope assault groups (Vanguard + Pedro, Pedro\ Chaplain + CC Termies, Pedro+ Honor Guard, all usually in a LR Redeemer or Crusader)

In general i always max out my squads. 10 man tacs allow access to both special weapon options, 10 man bolter fire is solid, 10 man scouts are needed bc of poorer BS. Unlike Guard you don't have high numbers to make up for the lower BS so you need as much as you can get. so anyway hope those ideas help, if you're interested in an example list i would run lmk.

[Lord Azaghul]

I've got a friend who runs pedro with honor guard in a LR - throws relic blades on them = absolutely terrifiying!

However I'm trying to stay away from LR's; they just seems everywhere these days (which means I might pick one up cheap some day).
The dev squad sounds cool, and I should have the models to run one on occation - but man they seem expensive!

Termies: Yeah as I guard player I know how easy they are to kill - without my demolishers! Mass Lasguns take these guys down all the time. My overall thoughts are a list that can DS with many units, while fire support makes target priority difficult.

MotF I do have old tech marines at home, so this is also a solid option, and I do like what he does for heavy option, effectively opening up an elite slot should I be low on heavies.

The idea of using the locator becons to jump the libraran around hasn't occured to me...I really like that idea!

Scouts: I'd need to buy more, so that may be a 'down the road' thing for me.

list: sure pop a couple of to give me a few ideas. Most of the time I'll be playing at 1750-2k

[therealjohnny5]

ok well here are a couple lists, the first is based around the Libby gate idea and the MotF and scout combo. The MotF basically walks behind the Vindicators and fixes them when they get messed up. Second list is more fluff oriented, though i do have the LR idea in there, you could replace the termies with Vanguard and the LR with a Rhino, but it's not going to give you that immediate assault. The Scouts in LSS are for last minute objective grabs or drive by shooting...

2K

HQ
Librarian – Epistolary, Storm bolter, Gate of Infinity, Avenger
Master of the Forge
Servitor squad – 2 servitors

Troops
Tac Squad A – 10x’s, Flamer, ML, PF, Razorback w\ TL Las
Tac Squad B – 10x’s, Flamer, PF, Rhino
Tac Squad C – 5x’s, CC wpns, MB, Razorback
Scout Snipers – 10x’s, Telion, ML, Camo Cloaks

Elite
Sternguard Vets – 10x’s, 4 combi-meltas, MB, Dpod w\ LB
Dreadnought – TL Las, ML, Dpod w\LB
Dreadnought – TL Las, ML, Dpod w\LB

HS
Vindicator – Siege Shield
Vindicator – Siege Shield

1997 pts
HQ
Pedro
Chaplain

Troops
Scout Snipers – Telion, ML, 10x’s, Camo cloaks
Scout – CC wpns, MB
Scout – CC wpns, MB

Elite
Sternguard – 10x’s, MB, Las, ML
Sternguard – 10x’s, MB, Las, ML
Terminator Assault Squad – 7x’s, 3 LC’s, 4 TH

FA
Land Speeder Storm
Land Speeder Storm

HS
Land Raider Crusader – MM
Vindicator – Siege Shield

[codiddy]

Well the command squad will be bodybags because they have no invulnerable saves so against a dedicated c.c unit they will get hammered and die.
yeah but no space marines besides termies or HQ's have an invulnerable either, and Feel no pain helps immensely to compensate. My command squad has taken a direct battle cannon shot and come out unscathed thanks to FNP. Sternguard or Vanguard will just die. I'm not saying command squads are the best thing in the book, but I think you are seriously underestimating their staying power.

[Lord Azaghul]

yeah but no space marines besides termies or HQ's have an invulnerable either, and Feel no pain helps immensely to compensate. My command squad has taken a direct battle cannon shot and come out unscathed thanks to FNP. Sternguard or Vanguard will just die. I'm not saying command squads are the best thing in the book, but I think you are seriously underestimating their staying power.

Um unless the command squad is T5 you shouldn't have. A battle cannon is S8 - thus no FnP. Anything that would inflict instant death, or is AP1 or 2 does not allow FnP.

However this doesn't stop me wanted to try 'em.

[codiddy]

Um unless the command squad is T5 you shouldn't have. A battle cannon is S8 - thus no FnP. Anything that would inflict instant death, or is AP1 or 2 does not allow FnP.

However this doesn't stop me wanted to try 'em.
they aren't T5, you are right. I'm suprised neither me or my buddy who shot them remembered that. I guess we were both thinking about the AP3 and not the str8. Since they each have just the one wound, instant death never occured to me. Good catch, I'll make sure to remember that next time.

[therealjohnny5]

Command squads can get expensive but like honor guard are pretty awesome in their own right. I'm a fan.

[codiddy]

Command squads can get expensive but like honor guard are pretty awesome in their own right. I'm a fan.
I like to run mine at the same points as 6 sternguard. I use the Company champion, Standard bearer, and 1 Flamer. I don't Bring them out every game but they always perform well for me when I do.

[therealjohnny5]

totally, i will run a biker command squad at times with my Counts-as-Kahn, but taking an Honor guard with someone like Pedro and packing Relic blades is just nasty. They make their money back usually. I just can't rationalize them in most games bc of the point sink. I've always wanted to run a Calgar with all the honor guards together. that would be like 1000pts or something stupid but crazy fun.

[Lord Azaghul]

totally, i will run a biker command squad at times with my Counts-as-Kahn, but taking an Honor guard with someone like Pedro and packing Relic blades is just nasty. They make their money back usually. I just can't rationalize them in most games bc of the point sink. I've always wanted to run a Calgar with all the honor guards together. that would be like 1000pts or something stupid but crazy fun.

I've got a friend who runs pedro and 7 honor guard as his standard: drops them in a LR, and shots across the table - they are nasty, but mass fire bring them down.

[therealjohnny5]

that's the problem with low saves vs quantity shots. even termies fall to massed fire. deployment becomes the key.

[Lord Azaghul]

So there has a been a bit of change is the list. I still need to pick up 1 landspeeder and 1 drop pod then I should be done shopping for a while. I really think I need the 2nd landspeeder and the 3rd drop pod.
Unforunately I haven't played a fulll game yet (been busy w/ life), but I have still been shopping! I have played with a friends SM before and I really like the options you get from 3 drops pods, so they will probably be the center of my list. Part of the other idea was to have a full force that would be able to fit with in a single FOC.

Vinicator fell of the list. I decided I want to play with more a 'precision' army them a 'blast' army, espeically since my guard IS a 'blast' army.


Pedro & or random captain
Rhino (or razorback liking the astetics of the assult cannons!)
Librarian: Epistolary

Troops

10 man Tact Squad, Flamer Plasma Cannon, power sword
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML powerfirst
Rhino
10 man Tact Squad, Melta ML Powerfist
5 Scouts w/ heavy bolter sniper rifles

Fast
10 man Assult Squad flamer, pp, sarg w/ pf (have a total of 12)
1 landspeed (all weaspon optoins open)

Elite:
10 Sternguard combimeltax2, sarg w/stom bolter powersword
Drop Pod w/ locator beacon
Dreadnought multimelta stormbolter
Drop Pod w/ deathwind
5 Termies Cyclone ML (have 6th termie with HF)

Heavy
1 Dakka Pred
1 Pred w/ Lascannons

[codiddy]

1 landspeed (all weaspon optoins open)
Typhoon missile launcher!! ultra versatile and the frags can be fired as a defensive weapon if you move 12" and want to fire the heavy bolter too. My buddy who plays orks hates these things wth a passion since they do so much damage to his mobz.



10 Sternguard combimeltax2, sarg w/stom bolter powersword




I don't like storm bolters for sternguard cause then you're paying more to not be able to use the special ammo.

[Lord Azaghul]

Typhoon missile launcher!! ultra versatile and the frags can be fired as a defensive weapon if you move 12" and want to fire the heavy bolter too. My buddy who plays orks hates these things wth a passion since they do so much damage to his mobz.



I don't like storm bolters for sternguard cause then you're paying more to not be able to use the special ammo.

Agree on the typhoon thingy, and I'd had the 'defensive weapon ' thought too! love it!

Its only the sargent who has the storm bolter, and that's mainly because of the model I have. He's a grey knight junticator, he better fits the 'look' of my sternguard, with I converted from normal SM, with a few extra bits here and there, ie purity seals, stormbolter ammo cartriges and what not. Not to mention I like the GK model and the SB is 5 points cheaper in that unit!