Dawn of War Deployment Question

[Shyft]

I'm confused about this deployment type just a bit.

...The player that goes first then chooses one of the long table edges to be his own table edge. He then can deploy up to two units from his Troops selections and up to one unit from his HQ selections....

Emphasis mine. Basically, can you start the mission with NOTHING on the table if your units can deploy as such?

[Kieranator K82]

In a word, yes. You do not need to deploy anything.
Any and all units can be kept in reserve, you see, and in DoW Deployment you can only deploy up to 1 HQ and 2 Troops. Everything else is kept in reserve and arrive like normal reserves.

[Sir Biscuit]

Actually, that's not quite true.

Two things to keep in mind when playing dawn of war:
1.) You can only deploy two troops units. This means that troops with their transport take up both slots.
2.) Units that are not deployed do not HAVE to go into reserve. All units that are not deployed, and are not declared as in reserve, move onto the table automatically on the first turn.

And no, you do not have to deploy anything at the start.

[The AKH]

Because of the way reserves work in 5th edition, you are never forced to deploy anything (in the 3 basic missions).

[Nabterayl]

2.) Units that are not deployed do not HAVE to go into reserve. All units that are not deployed, and are declared as in reserve, move onto the table automatically on the first turn.

I think this was a typo, Sir Biscuit. Dawn of War allows:

Up to two Troops and up to one HQ to start on the table (though nothing has to start on the table, as others have said).
Anything not on the table can elect to walk on from your table edge on Turn 1.
Anything not on the table can elect to be placed in Reserve (including Outflanking and Deep Striking) as normal.

[Sir Biscuit]

You are correct. I forgot the second "not". Corrected. Thank you.

[darkninja962]

Actually, that's not quite true.

Two things to keep in mind when playing dawn of war:
1.) You can only deploy two troops units. This means that troops with their transport take up both slots.



I had never thought of this before. I had always assumed a unit and its transport were one choice.

Can anyone else give an opinion on this? And is it the same with Space Marine Combat Squads? If I were to combat squad a unit, would it take up my 2 deployment options?

[Nabterayl]

I had never thought of this before. I had always assumed a unit and its transport were one choice.

Can anyone else give an opinion on this? And is it the same with Space Marine Combat Squads? If I were to combat squad a unit, would it take up my 2 deployment options?
It's completely unambiguous that a dedicated transport is its own separate unit, it's just buried in a part of the rulebook that most people don't read. Take a look at page 87:


Dedicated transports
Dedicated transport vehicles sit outside the Force Organisation structure, as they are attached to the unit they are bought for. When this distinction is called for (for example in some missions or deployment types), dedicated transport vehicles count as being from the same force organisation category as the unit they were bought for. For example, a Rhino bought for a Space Marine Tactical Squad (Troops) counts as a unit of Troops, but if it was bought for a unit of Veterans (Elites) it counts as Elites.

For extra confirmation, look at the bottom right corner of page 93:


In his half of the table, player B then deploys a unit of Troops, already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops).

Combat squads, however, are different. As the space marine codex says:


The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed.

...

If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.

In other words, with combat squads, you deploy the full ten man unit, and after deployment it counts as two units. So for Dawn of War purposes, you are only deploying a single unit, even though immediately after deployment it turns into two units.

EDIT:
I had never thought of this before. I had always assumed a unit and its transport were one choice.
A unit and its dedicated transport are a total of one FoC choice, yes - one choice for the unit, and no choices for the transport. However, they are two units, and Dawn of War deploys by units, not choices.

Lots of people don't think about the distinction between choices and units very often, but if you think about it, it's not that weird. IG infantry platoons are a very familiar example where a single choice consists of multiple units.

[Shyft]

thank you everyone, for your input and discussion, it's been very enlightening.

I play Daemonhunters, and basicaly i'm banking on having my PAGKs in land raiders at deployment. Since GK land raiders are heavy support and NOT dedicated transport, it'd be saver overall if i kept everything off the table edges, and deploy the GKs inside the LRs right off.

[SeattleDV8]

Combat squads, however, are different. As the space marine codex says:


The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed.

If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.

In other words, with combat squads, you deploy the full ten man unit, and after deployment it counts as two units. So for Dawn of War purposes, you are only deploying a single unit, even though immediately after deployment it turns into two units.

Sorry , but that doesn't work.
BRB pg.93 "...units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of depolyment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."
You still have to meet the restriction at the end of the depolyment.

[Nabterayl]

Sorry , but that doesn't work.
BRB pg.93 "...units that can infiltrate, can do so, as long as at the end of depolyment the player still has a maximum of one HQ and two Troops units on the table."
You still have to meet the restriction at the end of the depolyment.
Hmmmm, I'll accept that argument. Thanks!

To elaborate a little on why: we can deduce that a space marine squad is combat squadded before infiltrators are deployed, because as we know, a squad that is split into combat squads need not have both combat squads deployed in coherency with each other. Thus, it is clear that a space marine squad split into combat squads is deployed as one unit but becomes two units before infiltrators are deployed. From this deduction, it follows that a space marine squad split into combat squads would count as two units, and thus, e.g., a tactical squad split into two units would take up the entire deployable Troops allowance in Dawn of War.

[karandras]

I agree.

I have actually never considered this.

The IG Infantry Platoon as a single troops choice really takes a beating when reclassified as units. Interestingly, I had never thought to question an opponent setting up a Chimera-less platoon! The Chimeras would have set the proverbial light bulb off due to the transport passage, but without them, I let it go.

Good call.

[Culven]

I have seen many IG players try to claim that the Platoon rules allow the entire Platoon to deploy as one. This even happened at the 'Ard Boyz Semi-Finals when two IG players facing each other were both doing it; at least until Jwolf told them to do it right. All the Platoon rule says is that it deploys as a single choice, not Unit. I still don't know when deploying as a single choice would matter, considering that we no longer deploy by FOC choices.

[Lord Azaghul]

I have seen many IG players try to claim that the Platoon rules allow the entire Platoon to deploy as one. This even happened at the 'Ard Boyz Semi-Finals when two IG players facing each other were both doing it; at least until Jwolf told them to do it right. All the Platoon rule says is that it deploys as a single choice, not Unit. I still don't know when deploying as a single choice would matter, considering that we no longer deploy by FOC choices.


Honestly I think it was supposed to work that way, but conflicting wording causes the problem.
I was suprised GW didn't faq that one. At least for clarity sake.

It just doesn't make sense to me that the codex would specifiy that thee choice always deploys as one, and the main rule book would over ride in at one exception! Especially considering that codex' often trump the main rule book.

[Melissia]

If I can't deploy my platoons, I can't deploy anything at the beginning of the Dawn of War deployment except my HQ. That ain't happenin', nor is it fluffy in any way whatsoever.

[Lord Azaghul]

Here is the response to that: you can deploy your platoon, you can deploy up to two unit from the platoon, the rest comes on start of turn 1.

Still doesn't make sense to me...:confused: But that 's how I play it or everyone throws a fit

[Culven]

If I can't deploy my platoons, I can't deploy anything at the beginning of the Dawn of War deployment except my HQ.
Why? Nothing is stopping you from deploying up to two units from yout Troops selections.

. . . nor is it fluffy in any way whatsoever.
Why not? It makes sense in several possible ways. The Platoon may be spread out along the frontline with only the two units in th earea. The Platoon may be in their bunkers just behind the front line and the units we deploy are those standing watch as the battle begins with the rest of the platoon moving up to the front as the alarm is raised. The Platoon commander may have sent in two units under cover of darkness to set up in preparation of the attack . . .

I think that the "fluffy" deployment of the entire platoon would just be too much for most opponents and would unbalance the game.

[Force21]

Oh shoot was I deploying wrong??? :confused:



dang I thought it said choice.... oh well.... :(

[Culven]

Dawn of War refers to Units selected from the player's HQ and Troops choices. If you were deploying entire FOC choices, yes, you were doing it incorrectly.