Plasma Pistols: does anyone? Honestly?

[YorkNecromancer]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/58956144.jpg

So they're one of the most iconic pieces of wargear in 40K: the apex of pistol weaponry, with a statline that humbles all, in every way they're exactly the kind of gun you want to give to your character model.

Wait, 'Gets Hot'?

And how many points?

Sod that. He can have a Bolt Pistol and be happy with that.

This is how my thought process goes every time I think: 'Hmmm. Should I maybe use one of the thousand spare plasma pistols I have in my bits box? You know, just this once?' And I never do. Never.

Does anyone?

Because honest-to-Throne, the Plasma Pistol as it stands is a useless piece of sh!t. Too short a range to get off more than one shot before assault, too many points that could be spent on giving a squad additional special weapons, and then there's that f**king 'Gets Hot' rule, that sure, isn't all that likely to kill the guy carrying the gun... But at the kind of points a Plasma Pistol costs, should it really be there?

And of course, when you're Astartes, and have access to all-conquering Grav weaponry - which does everything Plasma weapons are supposed to, only better and safer - is there ever a point taking one again?

What do we think: are they ever worth it, or do you just kind of go 'Maybe next codex' in the hopes that the next codex corrects this stupid, stupid gun?

N.B.: We're obviously not discussing Plasma Guns, on account of they still have a use, due to the increased range and extra shot. Also, they go on the expendable minions, so yeah, some utility.

[Erik_Morkai]

The only funny thing I ever considered with plasma pistol was 9 Wolf Guards and a Wolf Priest in a Drop Pod. Wolf Priest has 1 pistol. The WG have 2 each with the gunslinger rule. So that's 19 shots of plasma and thanks to the WP you re-roll your '1' so much less chances of gets-hot. Of course it is a very short range punch but SO violent.

I rarely equip the plasma pistol because of the cost not because of the 'gets hot'. Too expensive for the range and number of times it will be useful.

[Kirsten]

I don't use any plasma weapons usually, I don't like killing my own troops.

[corrm]

Plasma talons on my black Knights are great, but I never bother with plasma pistols.

[Katharon]

I don't use any plasma weapons usually, I don't like killing my own troops.

*blinks*

You sure you know what game you're playing here?

[Filthy Casual]

I use Plasma Pistols, they look cool. For the once or twice a month I'll play, I'd rather have cool models than be super points efficient.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I model my Sergeants, Commanders and Commissars, etc with whatever looks cool, and then make sure my opponent knows what they're carrying. This is almost entirely Bolters if they're lucky, Laspistols if I'm skint on points. Plasma Pistols? They cost as much as Carapace Armour on my Veterans, some Camo Netting on my Command Tank, or a Plasma Gun on a Veteran. Why would I pay the same points for less shots and range?

It's the same problem I have as Guard with Power Weaponry, though. I'm not paying 15pts for a weapon on someone who'll probably die before they swing, but if not, they'll probably fail to Hit or Wound anyway. Only my Primaris Psykers and occasionally my Lord Commissar get a Power Axe - Force in the case of the Psykers - because the Lord Commissar is pretty cool, and the Primaris Psykers can pop Force and end a Carnifex.

[Kirsten]

*blinks*

You sure you know what game you're playing here?

yes.

one where I don't kill my own troops.

[Filthy Casual]

I'm strictly WYSIWYG, playing anything else seems wrong. Maybe Sergeant Arkelion just likes plasma pistols, he got it passed down to him as a honour from his favourite Commissar, its served the regiment for centuries and was once used by a brave Sergeant to kill a filthy heretic Traitor Space Marine, he wouldn't dream of insulting its machine spirit by using a laspistol instead.

[Sly]

yes.

one where I don't kill my own troops.

Is this 40k we're talking about? I mean, Inquisitor Karamazov and stuff... ;)

Jokes aside... the point cost of a Plasma Pistol at 15 is too high for what you get. Maybe if you're sure to have a way to twin-link it, or if it cost 10 points. But at 15 it's just not strong enough for how much it costs. And the Gets Hot rule on a squad Champion who may have a Power Weapon and thus is costing 50 or so points... a very weak choice to make.

They do look cool if done right, and I can certainly agree with the posters who suggest that, after all, it's only 30-60 pts (and only about 10-20 overpriced) to mix some into the army for their cool appearance. If you're min-maxing tightly, you definitely leave them out. If you're willing to drop a few points to put some cool-looking gear on, well, they're poor but not terrible. I'd put a Power Weapon on first since that's both good-looking and more effective, but I can see the point of using them.

[BHound1981]

I take them in my assault marine squads because even if they do manage to get hot, I'm saving it on a 3+ and they're pretty useful against more than just infantry. My assault heavy Raven Guard use them all the time and I've found them to be worthwhile more times than not.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I still don't understand why a Guard Sergeant pays the same for weapons as a Space Marine Sergeant. I can see it being a worthwhile upgrade for Space Marines, but not for Guard.

[Captain Bubonicus]

Some of my Death Guard sergeants have them - both because they look cool, and because they at least get a FNP save.

*edit*

Er, a FNP save in addition to their armor save, that is.

[Drew da Destroya]

I used one pretty recently, actually. I was building a kustom Loota, and I gave him that backpack bit that has a ton of ammo and a Grot popping out the back. I gave the Grot a spare Plasma Pistol I had laying around, so he could join in the dakka.

Oh, wait, as an actual wargear option? Nope (although I guess the Kustom Mega-Slugga is my closest option, and I'd rather just take the Blasta or the Rokkit in those cases).

[Lurker]

I use them a lot to mark out officers, sergeants and other character types. With my usual luck anyone carrying a pistol either gets jumped like a rich man in a dark alley, or I forget about 'em anyway. I mainly like them for the cool factor they add to a model.

[Fueldrop]

Don't play imperium but will chip in with my own power-pistols:
If you're going to be getting close and assaulting anyway they can be worth it. After all, kill one MEQ and it pays for itself, kill one TEQ and you come out on top. They're also a nice bonus vs targets of opportunity re: rear armour.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Don't play imperium but will chip in with my own power-pistols:
If you're going to be getting close and assaulting anyway they can be worth it. After all, kill one MEQ and it pays for itself, kill one TEQ and you come out on top. They're also a nice bonus vs targets of opportunity re: rear armour.

Mmm, but there are normally better options. I think that's the problem. Why buy a Plasma Pistol when a Plasma or Melta Gun will do it better?

[This Dave]

I actually like putting them on my multi-wound officer types if there not a better choice available. It hits hard and ignores any armor saves. Yes there is a chance it'll get hot but that's why I use it on multi wound models. If they fail their armor save and any FNP from Apothecaries and such they just lose 1 wound.

Since my guys seldom get to fire a pistol more than once or twice I want every shot to count.

[AnEnemy]

Some of my Death Guard sergeants have them - both because they look cool, and because they at least get a FNP save.

*edit*

Er, a FNP save in addition to their armor save, that is.

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you only get an armor save since a plasma pistol would double out your T3 guardsman? I play DE so it I don't deal with Gets Hot.

[Mr Mystery]

Overheat just deals a wound, no specific strength value, so no Instant Death or FnP prevention.

[Houghten]

That, and "Death Guard" aren't T3 Guardsmen, they're T5 Plague Marines.

[Mike X]

I equip a couple of my assault marines with plasma pistols, and I take plasmaguns and plasma cannons on occasion. But I never give "Gets Hot" weapons to HQs or sergeants.

[Captain Bubonicus]

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you only get an armor save since a plasma pistol would double out your T3 guardsman? I play DE so it I don't deal with Gets Hot.

Death Guard (Plaguemarines of Nurgle) not Death Korps!

[terminus]

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you only get an armor save since a plasma pistol would double out your T3 guardsman? I play DE so it I don't deal with Gets Hot.

He's also talking about Death Guard plague marines, who are actually T5. But yes, gets hot wound doesn't have a S value.

[Brakkart]

My assault squad has a couple plasma pistol carrying marines in it and one of my tactical squad sergeants has one (the 25th anniversary Crimson fist model) but those are the only ones in use in my army.

[Archon]

Does anyone?

Definitly: No

Even if the Model has a Plasma Pistol, I won´t buy it. Okay perhaps for the Chaos Lord out of the Vengance Box, because it look realy cool and i have a IW Champ, which has the old berserker-plasma-pistol, but honestly i don´t buy them.

My key-moment was back in 3rd or 4th edition, back then you could fire the PP twice, if you haven´t move - guess what happens to the poor EC Champ?
Yes. Double one!

Even if the PP gets not hot, it isn´t worth the price. Usually you get one - two if you lucky - shot in the game and this shot must make it worth.

So no. No PP for me.

[Mr Mystery]

I like them. Always feel it's nice to have a decent strength, low AP weapon kicking about in case of expose rear armour.

[son_of_volmer]

The Blood Angels have a 25 point Plasma Pistol that doesn't get hot... insane point cost aside you could pair it with an inferno pistol.

[0rph3u5]

Up until recent CSM Codex my Night Lords Troop-Champions had an even distribution of PPs+Power Weapon and Combi Bolter+Powerfist between them; now they only have single Lightning Claws - just doesn't work anymore to put additional points into them if you have the challange any character model you come across

As for my HQs -only 2 had PPs orginally, a Sorc and the DV Lord - remodeled both with Bolt Pistols from the Raptors/Warp Talons even if don't actually use them:
http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/My%20Tabletop-Models/th_PA_Sorc_zps71efb6ee.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/0rph3u5/media/My%20Tabletop-Models/PA_Sorc_zps71efb6ee.jpg.html) http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/0rph3u5/My%20Tabletop-Models/th_DV_Models1_zps6c17621e.jpg (http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/0rph3u5/media/My%20Tabletop-Models/DV_Models1_zps6c17621e.jpg.html)
(and yeah, no power mauls either)

[DiceFestGames]

I always give my gang leader a plasma pistol ... in Necromunda! But it's based on 2nd ed., so no 'gets hot' just cheesy instant death/small blast/S7 in close combat goodness. :D

[phreakachu]

ive got nearly a full company of imperial fists, with exactly 3 pistols and one gun. the pistols rarely get used, and in the 3 games ive put the gunner in play, hes managed to not fry himself never.

frakk plasma weapons.

[Leviticus Stroud]

I find them too unreliable, and not worth the points.

On a single wound character it simply isn't worth the risk of removing your own squad leader from the battle, even more so if they are carrying any other upgrades- which should generally be considered before spending points on weapons with a 12" range!
On a multi wound character the chances are a pistol is only there for the bonus attack, so you may as use the cheapest option- a bolt pistol.

It wouldn't be so bad if the old 2nd ed rule for the bonus attack in CC from a pistol being made with the pistol's statline was put back into play. In that case I'd probably start taking some...

[Anggul]

Plasma pistols are terrible, but that's because pistols in general are rather useless. They're used to provide +1 attack and that's usually it.

You generally get one or maybe two chances to fire them in a game, and you almost always don't because it will probably put you out of assault range.

Pistols should be similar to hammer of wrath. Make your charge, then fire them. It would represent them firing as they close with the enemy as the fluff says they do, and would mean people would actually use them instead of it being detrimental to your cause.

[spiralingcadaver]

I don't think there's any problem with pistols (basic meltas are the same range, don't get the extra attack, and people take them pretty often for anti-vehicle shock squads). I'd argue that the problem is that GW doesn't know how to (or doesn't care to) price gear appropriate to its effectiveness.

In ye olde codex: CSM 3.5, there was a gear price for basic champions and a separate one for independent characters. An equivalent pricing where things were actually based proportional to context (ex: 4 lascannons across 4 tactical squads is less effective than a dev squad with 4 so should arguably be priced lower) could save a lot of stuff.

[Alaric]

Plasma pistols on the Assault Squad vet sergs Cuz..well..play like u got a pair..and ap2 of course.

[KeyLimePrime]

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT PISTOL SILLINESS.

Ork Meks have the option of taking Kustom Mega-blastas. Pretty much an Assault 1 S8 plasma gun. It's only about 5 points. HOWEVER. They may exchange it for a Kustom Mega-Slugga, which is a pistol version. For 10 points. How ******* loony is that??

As for plasma pistols, I play Death Guard as well, so they don't off my guys as much as others. I think they're too expensive, but I don't suffer from killing my own guys. But then again, equipping them on plague marines gives me someone nearly as expensive as a terminator.

[Wolfshade]

I like them, but then if I have a plasma gun and plasma cannon, then obviously the sergeant needs a plasma pistol!

They are unreliable, though I was doing very well with not loosing anyone then mephiston failed a couple of perils then blew himself up with a failed gets hot. Indeed, he didn't lose a wound to enemy fire :'(