DOES Games Workshop make the best miniatures in the world?

[YorkNecromancer]

Well?

We've all heard the claim. We've also heard the counterclaim - companies like Tamiya, Privateer Press, Prodos, Anvil Industries, Statuesque Miniatures and others could all lay claim to be the best miniatures company in the world in terms of quality, output, core concepts and so on.

But what does the community think? Given that this is largely a GW-based forum, I'd expect a 'yes' overall, but I don't know.

Also note, the poll is a binary because if you have an opinion, leave it in the comments. If they're the best: why? If not: why?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I find the question as silly as asking "What's the best movie/book in the world?"

The art of sculpture has innumerable styles, and when taken into the context of the miniatures market there are a crazy amount of competing, additional variables. Multipart vs. monopose, for instance - each of those can be consider a mark of quality, or a flaw. When you then consider that this topic's discussing a range of products it becomes even more meaningless of a question.

Edit: Think about it this way; the question assumes that all the qualities which could potentially contribute to the miniatures being the "best" can be quantified and ranked alongside each other in a sterile environment. I consider that to be a flawed assumption.

[Path Walker]

When it comes to mass produced plastic miniatures, yes.

Other manufacturers can make great stuff but no one can make the volume that GW can, boutique (and expensive) resin casts by small companies make make some of the most amazing sculpts but they'd struggle to make more than 200 of them

[Mr Mystery]

I think GW offer a good balance in their kits.

Detail is above many competitors, but not all.

Ease of assembly is above most competitors, but not all.

Conversion is easy enough.

They also produce kits up to the task of regular gaming. Other companies may offer highly detailed replicas, but without design consideration beyond looking ace in a cabinet.

So overall, whilst they may not be objectively the best in any given area, they offer a more rounded product.

[daboarder]

Do GW make the best miniatures in the world?

No, not anymore.

Many of their competitors are now making models that while being different aesthetics are technically just as good, or in some cases better, than those made by GW.

Infinity for example is using digital sculpting in the last year or so to release some AMAZING miniatures.

http://static.corvusbelli.com/v1/imagenes/articulos/280172-0527_1.jpg
http://static.corvusbelli.com/v1/imagenes/articulos/280170-0506_1.jpg
http://static.corvusbelli.com/v1/imagenes/articulos/280374-0508_3.jpg
http://static.corvusbelli.com/v1/imagenes/articulos/280474-0532_1.jpg

Those are just an single example of what the competitors in the market are releasing these days. Games Workshop still makes some very good models (the sigmarines despite me not liking the look and them being mono pose EWWWW are technically very well done from what I've seen) But to claim they are the best is no longer a relevant question in the world of miniature gaming

I mean seriously, compare those to the last imperial guard release, its NUTS, just nuts how much detail they have on them.


EDIT: Oh, those galwegians at the top, can you name them? thats how good the miniatures are

[Sonikgav]

GW are hit and miss for me. The smaller models, especially the charachter models look great, and theres lots of little details going on you dont always notice at first (like Devastators having reinforced boots) but GW are pushing up and up and some of their larger scale models are downright shocking.

The problem they have with things like the Riptide, Wraithknight, Knight Titan and most of the Large kits Forgeworld Produce is that theyre then starting to compete with more complex Model kits like the Bandai Gundams. Considering the price GW charge for a hollow, plastic statuette that you still have to paint yourself, you could get a fully poseable, pre painted and intricate kit filled with actual mechanical parts and design for half the price.

[Fueldrop]

GW models are good quality, for the most part and ignoring Finecast. However, when you factor in price you have to wonder whether basic troops are worth $11AU per model when you can get something similar from another company for 1/10th of the price. For a horde army that's a massive difference, and for most people that overrides any difference in quality.

[daboarder]

I find the big issue is that when GW scales up certain models they dont increase the detail they just increase the size of everything.

this is very noticeable in the tyranids, where the large models are just exaggerated takes on the same design concepts, a trygon or tervigon doesnt have extra detail on it, the ratios between all the elements are the same each element is just larger. Normally you would expect them to increase the amount of detail and individual components on a model as the size increases.

[lobster-overlord]

They used to be one of the best games manufacturers in the world. They are by far NOT the best at anything anymore. As exemplified by the other posts above, as well as so many other products out there.

I would venture to say Reaper is the best miniatures company based on product lines, price, quality, variety, and customer service. They don't have the best miniatures all the time, but the question is the poll is best minis COMPANY.

[YorkNecromancer]

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Reaper's Bones models are just freaking horrible. Agree that there are some lovely sculpts, and a frankly insane range of models... But the cheap-feeling Bones material is just disgusting to work with. It's too flexible, any thin details like swords come out wonky (even if you break out the hairdryer to heat-bend them) and the damn stuff's hydrophobic a fair bit of the time, so painting's not exactly easy... Not to mention it actively rejects the very concept of primer.

I wanted to like Reaper and their stuff, but nope, I ain't feeling it. The loveliest sculpts in the world mean nothing if I can't do anything with 'em. Forget Finecast - which wasn't great - because f GW had released a single model in that Bones material, the internet would have melted from the nerdrage.

[Gotthammer]

Reaper metals are great tho and all the bones are copies of them.

I voted no in that I've bought hardly anything since the Dark Eldar release. Used to be that GW releases were all droolworthy but they just don't make anything *new*. I mean I love the knights because stompy robots but it's still a re-do of a decades old design. Same for marines, after almost 25 years of them I'm just done with them you know? They don't innovate any more, just make retreads of the old stuff and the new stuff has felt kinda lackluster. Also Daborder's excellent point about scaling up for much of the new stuff.

Also obligatory dig at GW's near total lack of female representation which has been getting worse as time goes on while their competitors (notably Corvus Beli, Privateer less so) realise that having women represented on the tabletop does not, in fact, drive customers away.

[Arkhan Land]

I have very mixed feelings on this especially because Im an avid builder of sci-fi and historical larger scale non-game miniatures (WWII tanks, Star Wars Fighters, Models of buildings etc.) and I love all the major companies that have for nearly a century in some cases, weather the biz and cotinued to exist producing some range of product. sometimes these are the finest kits ever, sometimes they are less detailed but in favor of a greater variety of units within the range.

When i think about the roots of GWs main components I see early Lead Figure minis for roleplaying/advanced board games meeting the technology of vacum mold multi-part kits alive in the Airplane/Ship/Tank/Sci-fi vessel/ETC which has been around for nearly as long, and how each of these things has helped do things the other could not, Purpose beyond modeling, and advanced customizable/convertable components.

(as a side thought, lead figurines used to represent soldiers for wargaming is an old old concept recognizable as such centuries ago if not even preceeded by the idea of chess. likewise the creation of multi-part scale models for vehicles (very specifically naval vessels) is as old, their synergey is what makes our game what it is today between all companies)

I voted yes to the poll because like it or not GW made the blueprint for all mini companies and how they view their role in the world of art/game, and because they codified and coordinated the process between the infantry mini and the multi-part scale model very well

i do think there are companies that sometimes produce work far more detailed/better looking and others with more fluid/balanced/free/free and worthwhile rules, perhaps that will one day eat GW whole or live past its demise...

sorry if thats rambling or confusing my sinuses are squishing my brain right now due to allergies

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

technically I think their its are a joy to put together - good hard plastic kits, numbered parts that fit well so in that respect I think they are up there. Aethetically I tend to prefer a lot of ther companies though.

[Cutter]

GW's plastics are probably the most technically accomplished out there, but I'd agree with DB, the likes of Corvus Belli are producing better miniatures for realism and detail and Reaper's Bones for affordability and ruggedness.

Best is relative.

Not every miniature in my collection has to be a special snowflake.

Sometimes it's nice just to be able to fire an army into a plastic bag and throw it into the backseat of the car.

But then I'm a wargamer, not a Games Workshop Hobbyist.

They're just fantasy space barbies after all.

[ElectricPaladin]

GW's stuff is fine, but I agree that it suffers in comparison to the stuff coming out of a lot of other companies.

I also think that a lot of folks ignore the fact that GW's stuff is very strongly styled. This, I think, is where their claims to be a miniatures company first is rather... silly. GW uses a very particular scale (heroic, a very strange sort of 28mm scale) with a very particular sort of aesthetic (dark, gothic, over-the-top). I mean... what else are you going to use these minis for? Are you going to use a Space Marine in any other kind of sci fi game? Are, say, Lizardmen models applicable to any other game or RPG setting outside of Fantasy? No, of course not!

Compare that to, say Corvus Belli's Infinity models, which are stylish... but still recognizable as broadly "science fiction" minis. Or Spartan's broad catalogue of space ships. The difference is clear and dramatic.

[Path Walker]

I think the idea is that you don't have to use their miniatures for anything other than owning them, they get more customers who never use their models in a game than people who play regularly.

You might not believe that, because you only see the people who play at your local club, but anyone who has worked in the industry will tell you that a lot more people just like to collect models, its why there are hundreds of companies out there (Dark Sword for example) that just make models without the need for a game system.

[marful]

I think the idea is that you don't have to use their miniatures for anything other than owning them, they get more customers who never use their models in a game than people who play regularly.

You might not believe that, because you only see the people who play at your local club, but anyone who has worked in the industry will tell you that a lot more people just like to collect models, its why there are hundreds of companies out there (Dark Sword for example) that just make models without the need for a game system.

And anyone who works retail of GW miniatures will tell you that this is not true. The vast majority of GW minis are sold to people who purchased them specifically for use in a GW game.

Certainly there exists the handful of customers who buy every single GW miniature that comes out, simply to have, but they are incredibly rare. As a hobby store employee I can recall two such customers who fit this criteria, but the sales figures of these customers aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to the primary demographics: people who purchase GW's minis for gaming in GW games.

[CoffeeGrunt]

'Best' is very subjective, as others have rightly said. I love Anvil, but their models are often monopose for their Afterlife game, and lack in weapons options. That aside, they're bloody beautiful and excellently-sculpted.

Victoria Minis make the best and most diverse Guard parts you could hope for, but they're a bit pricey to make a Guard army from, and the resin takes a little more to work with than GW plastic in my experience. Kromlech and Puppetswar make great minis, but not typically enough to make an army with that isn't Space Marines. They also don't have their own game system, same as Victoria. Maxmini fits into this kind of category as well, they're supplements that make great minis, but would be a bit useless without GW's 40K to play them in.

Privateer Press I personally don't like, but Corvus Belli, Wyrd and Spartan all make stuff I very much like. Spartan's new Halo system is pretty fun to play, and the models are lovely, especially as a fan. I'm tempted to get a Ressurectionists Crew for Malifaux, and still deliberating on what to get for Infinity.

In a nutshell, no GW is not the best, but IMO they're still very good. They're probably the best all-rounders. Good material, good sculpts, customisable and aesthetically pleasing if that's your taste. The fact they're not the best is a great thing, it means we've got so much to choose from that's at least as good if not better! :)

[Denzark]

Difficult, subjective. CoffeeGrunt has summed it up for me - 'probably the best all-rounders'.

There is no mistaking a GW miniature as it has clear links to the world/fluff. Whereas some of the stuff I see about - infinity etc - I see 'generic sci-fi sculpts' that, whilst technically brilliant, don't seem to have any passion in them. It may be deliberate ('we don't care what game you use them in') but having your own aesthetic is a key thing for me.

Whilst I never had a problem with Finecast because I never bought any - the new plastics are absolutely consistently high end and delightful. Starter sets (AoS/DV) are absolutely epically detailed for snap/push fit and the level of accessories in things like Sternguard boxes, are really good.

So yeah, all-rounders.

[Cutter]

Victoria Minis make the best and most diverse Guard parts you could hope for, but they're a bit pricey to make a Guard army from, and the resin takes a little more to work with than GW plastic in my experience. Kromlech and Puppetswar make great minis, but not typically enough to make an army with that isn't Space Marines. They also don't have their own game system, same as Victoria. Maxmini fits into this kind of category as well, they're supplements that make great minis, but would be a bit useless without GW's 40K to play them in.

That reminds me,
15146

VM have made this peice of lovely available as an add-on to Bones III. I imagine there are a few guard players out there who might like this, especially those hankering after female models.

[Path Walker]

And anyone who works retail of GW miniatures will tell you that this is not true. The vast majority of GW minis are sold to people who purchased them specifically for use in a GW game.

Certainly there exists the handful of customers who buy every single GW miniature that comes out, simply to have, but they are incredibly rare. As a hobby store employee I can recall two such customers who fit this criteria, but the sales figures of these customers aren't even a drop in the bucket compared to the primary demographics: people who purchase GW's minis for gaming in GW games.

Yes, if you work in a hobby store, you might see mostly gamers, but with online and other channels, the market is much larger than hobby stores, the game is a small part of the hobby, something to do with a collection of miiatures you've bought and painted, thats how GW has always seen it.

I collect a lot of different games, most of which I've not actually played. and miniature quality is the biggest factor to me, Infinity has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years, Spartan are the same, the difference between my two Terran fleets is massive, Guild Ball might just be my favorite models of the year so far and I've yet to see them mentioned.

Where GW have the advantage is being able to do all they do on a scale that means they can supply so many people, they make a product that appeals to a massive base of people, something other manufacturers can't manage. And to be fair, some of their stuff in the last few years has been stunning, the Imperial Knight is an amazing kit, the Mechanicus Tech Priest Dominus is creepy and intricate and a real joy to paint. Their ability to make kits in plastic really still is miles ahead of anyone else, only Wyrd come anywhere close and they're still just not quite there yet.

Do they make the best sculpts - probably not, no
Do they have the best plastic miniatures available to the most people - definitely.

[CoffeeGrunt]

That reminds me,
15146

VM have made this peice of lovely available as an add-on to Bones III. I imagine there are a few guard players out there who might like this, especially those hankering after female models.

I do personally love Victoria's sculpts, there's a reason I have a Chem Dogs Kill Team made almost entirely of her bitz with a few GW ones smattered around as loot. I really wanna convert that thing up into a railway cannon like the old WWI style. It'd fit something like a Death Korps Artillery Carriage beautifully...

[daboarder]

Yes, if you work in a hobby store, you might see mostly gamers, but with online and other channels, the market is much larger than hobby stores, the game is a small part of the hobby, something to do with a collection of miiatures you've bought and painted, thats how GW has always seen it.

I collect a lot of different games, most of which I've not actually played. and miniature quality is the biggest factor to me, Infinity has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years, Spartan are the same, the difference between my two Terran fleets is massive, Guild Ball might just be my favorite models of the year so far and I've yet to see them mentioned.

Where GW have the advantage is being able to do all they do on a scale that means they can supply so many people, they make a product that appeals to a massive base of people, something other manufacturers can't manage. And to be fair, some of their stuff in the last few years has been stunning, the Imperial Knight is an amazing kit, the Mechanicus Tech Priest Dominus is creepy and intricate and a real joy to paint. Their ability to make kits in plastic really still is miles ahead of anyone else, only Wyrd come anywhere close and they're still just not quite there yet.

Do they make the best sculpts - probably not, no
Do they have the best plastic miniatures available to the most people - definitely.
This is blatantly untrue and even a cursory understanding of the shape of GW sales proves that.the game drives aales which is why as the gmsales eb and flow with the games balance and in oarticular viabillity as a tournament game. You just have to look at their sales over the last 6-7 years to see this

[Path Walker]

This is blatantly untrue and even a cursory understanding of the shape of GW sales proves that.the game drives aales which is why as the gmsales eb and flow with the games balance and in oarticular viabillity as a tournament game. You just have to look at their sales over the last 6-7 years to see this

Its not, but thanks for chipping in.

[40kGamer]

To go to 'the best miniatures' you have to look at literally hundreds of manufacturers and design studios across the globe. So no, not the best. DaBoarder already posted up the amazingly intricate stuff coming out of Corvus Belli for Infinity... and you can look up the historical miniature lines of Richard Ansell, who is an outstanding sculptor. I'm especially partial to the 28mm work Richard did for Minden Miniatures for the Seven Years War. His models are well proportioned anatomically and highly detailed. I do think Jes Goodwin would have to be in the conversation for best overall sculptors.

[ted1138]

That's really two questions, not one. Are GW the best miniatures company in the world? Probably yes. Do GW make the best miniatures in the world? Probably no.

[40kGamer]

Yes, if you work in a hobby store, you might see mostly gamers, but with online and other channels, the market is much larger than hobby stores, the game is a small part of the hobby, something to do with a collection of miniatures you've bought and painted, thats how GW has always seen it.

I collect a lot of different games, most of which I've not actually played. and miniature quality is the biggest factor to me, Infinity has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years, Spartan are the same, the difference between my two Terran fleets is massive, Guild Ball might just be my favorite models of the year so far and I've yet to see them mentioned.

Where GW have the advantage is being able to do all they do on a scale that means they can supply so many people, they make a product that appeals to a massive base of people, something other manufacturers can't manage. And to be fair, some of their stuff in the last few years has been stunning, the Imperial Knight is an amazing kit, the Mechanicus Tech Priest Dominus is creepy and intricate and a real joy to paint. Their ability to make kits in plastic really still is miles ahead of anyone else, only Wyrd come anywhere close and they're still just not quite there yet.

Do they make the best sculpts - probably not, no
Do they have the best plastic miniatures available to the most people - definitely.


This is blatantly untrue and even a cursory understanding of the shape of GW sales proves that.the games drive sales which is why the sales ebb and flow with the games balance and in particular viabillity as a tournament game. You just have to look at their sales over the last 6-7 years to see this


Its not, but thanks for chipping in.

If we're completely honest Games Workshop doesn't really know who is buying their products. 50% goes through non-GW sales channels and even the sales going through their own stores can't be tracked to person and use. So it may be true that the majority of sales goes to casual collectors who buy a kit here or there, but it's equally likely this is not the case. What we commonly see is that 'if' something has a high utility in actual gameplay it sells remarkably well. Also if we're playing probabilities it is far more likely that a collector will only buy one of something while a gamer will buy many if it is useful.

On a side note if you read through the threads of high quality miniature artist's on CoolminiorNot, GW is far from the company of choice for most of them. Another compelling reason to vote no on them offering the best miniatures.

[CoffeeGrunt]

On a side note if you read through the threads of high quality miniature artist's on CoolminiorNot, GW is far from the company of choice for most of them. Another compelling reason to vote no on them offering the best miniatures.

Eh, that's a bit like saying, "well all these Formula One racers wouldn't want to buy a Ford family car, so Ford clearly can't be the best car company."

I mean, many of the models on that site are gorgeous to levels I won't be achieving any time soon, if ever. I'll also warrant that a very small percentage of them have ever touched the tabletop as well...

[Path Walker]

If we're completely honest Games Workshop doesn't really know who is buying their products. 50% goes through non-GW sales channels and even the sales going through their own stores can't be tracked to person and use

They know how many rulebooks they sell though

[daboarder]

And in the digital age and gaming groups that doesnt mean much.

Ill be honest 40k gamer has the right of it. Neither we nor GW has the information to make the call. BUT as gamer pointed out the more powerful in game units and armies sell consistently MORE than other model kits. We know this because the community includes store owners that make that data available to us. You dont get to refute it without solid evidence of your own.

Edit: you mention online sales being larger than walk in customers. And while that may be true it is incorrect to use such a statement to try and diminish the input evidence from independent game stores as many of those have their OWN online distribution methods that are still supporting the conclusion drawn above.

Furthermore given that said stores are often able to sell at a lower price point than the GW wenstore non exclusive modela probably move a high volume per customer through those other store channels.

Edit: all that aside the topic of conversation is the qualitity of GW miniatures not the customer demographic.

[Path Walker]

Whats that saying about correlation again?

[daboarder]

Eh, that's a bit like saying, "well all these Formula One racers wouldn't want to buy a Ford family car, so Ford clearly can't be the best car company."

I mean, many of the models on that site are gorgeous to levels I won't be achieving any time soon, if ever. I'll also warrant that a very small percentage of them have ever touched the tabletop as well...

I believe 40kgamer raised this more to point out that "collectors" do not seem to favour GW miniatures anymore than they do other games companies

[onlyonepinman]

And while we're on the subject of arbitrary comparisons, what is better, Coca Cola or Pepsi?

I deliberately didn't vote because it's largey subejctive and it depends entirely on the criteria you use to determine "best". Are Games Workshop's sculpts individually the best in the world? perhaps not their citadel range but Forgeworld can certainly claim to be a very strong contender for that title. Games Workshop's plastic miniatures are certainly some of the best around especially if you like converting your miniatures. Maybe you think that the cost of the miniatures, the ability to build big forces, is more important than the sculpts themselves, in which case GW certainly aren't contenders.

So who can really say who makes "the best toy soldiers"?

[Charon]

you mention online sales being larger than walk in customers.

I do not doubt that this is true as half of their stuff (especially everything finecast related) is only available via their online shop.

[daboarder]

Whats that saying about correlation again?

Correlation does not equal causation

HOWEVER, if you actually knew anything about the import of that statement beyond using it to be snide you'd be able to understand that while correlation in itself does not equal causation it provides strong evidence for an established working hypothesis.


Correlations only describe the relationship, they do not prove cause and effect. Correlation is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for determining causality.

:rolleyes:

[Psychosplodge]

Pepsi. No contest.

Yorkie, what have you done?

[daboarder]

And while we're on the subject of arbitrary comparisons, what is better, Coca Cola or Pepsi?

I deliberately didn't vote because it's largey subejctive and it depends entirely on the criteria you use to determine "best". Are Games Workshop's sculpts individually the best in the world? perhaps not their citadel range but Forgeworld can certainly claim to be a very strong contender for that title. Games Workshop's plastic miniatures are certainly some of the best around especially if you like converting your miniatures. Maybe you think that the cost of the miniatures, the ability to build big forces, is more important than the sculpts themselves, in which case GW certainly aren't contenders.

So who can really say who makes "the best toy soldiers"?

while no comment is a fair stance to make I believe that most of us in this thread are intelligent enough to realise we are only discussing personal opinions, I must admit, I like York expected the YES vote to have significantly more ground than it currently does, its also interesting to see the different ways in which people are interpreting the question itself, either focusing on the model element or the "company" element

[40kGamer]

Eh, that's a bit like saying, "well all these Formula One racers wouldn't want to buy a Ford family car, so Ford clearly can't be the best car company."

I mean, many of the models on that site are gorgeous to levels I won't be achieving any time soon, if ever. I'll also warrant that a very small percentage of them have ever touched the tabletop as well...


I believe 40kgamer raised this more to point out that "collectors" do not seem to favour GW miniatures anymore than they do other games companies

Daboarder's nailed my intent. We don't see the segment of the community that is 'the best of the best' with painting and collecting focusing an undo amount of attention on GW models. I also know that some members of this group sometimes paint a GW model just because it is so recognizable to the community at large that it yields a larger amount of feedback.

Gw makes really nice models at a very high quantity. But with this being the Golden Age of miniatures and gaming it's just not possible for them to claim 'king of the hill' status.

[Gotthammer]

And while we're on the subject of arbitrary comparisons, what is better, Coca Cola or Pepsi?

It depends on marketing and knowing what you're drinking (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/26/magazine/there-s-a-sucker-born-in-every-medial-prefrontal-cortex.html):


He assembled a group of test subjects and, while monitoring their brain activity with an M.R.I. machine, recreated the Pepsi Challenge. His results confirmed those of the TV campaign: Pepsi tended to produce a stronger response than Coke in the brain's ventral putamen, a region thought to process feelings of reward. (Monkeys, for instance, exhibit activity in the ventral putamen when they receive food for completing a task.) Indeed, in people who preferred Pepsi, the ventral putamen was five times as active when drinking Pepsi than that of Coke fans when drinking Coke.

In the real world, of course, taste is not everything. So Montague tried to gauge the appeal of Coke's image, its ''brand influence,'' by repeating the experiment with a small variation: this time, he announced which of the sample tastes were Coke. The outcome was remarkable: almost all the subjects said they preferred Coke. What's more, the brain activity of the subjects was now different. There was also activity in the medial prefrontal cortex, an area of the brain that scientists say governs high-level cognitive powers. Apparently, the subjects were meditating in a more sophisticated way on the taste of Coke, allowing memories and other impressions of the drink -- in a word, its brand -- to shape their preference.

Pepsi, crucially, couldn't achieve the same effect. When Montague reversed the situation, announcing which tastes were of Pepsi, far fewer of the subjects said they preferred Pepsi. Montague was impressed: he had demonstrated, with a fair degree of neuroscientific precision, the special power of Coke's brand to override our taste buds.

[40kGamer]

They know how many rulebooks they sell though

I don't know if that's a good indicator due to the following:

1) We've seen a tremendous increase in rulebook sharing (or outright pirating)
2) A player will not necessarily buy a set ratio of models with a rulebook. (For example: 1 rulebook could yield the sale of 6+ Rhino or Drop Pod kits)
3) Some people never advance with a new edition but will still buy models to use with old rules. People with tight play groups who don't care about events will just buy the models and not new rules as they left the GW inspired arms race ages ago.

Viewed from the other side, how many non-players are going to buy something like a Wave Serpent? And how many of them are going to want multiples of the kit if they do? Wave Serpent sales were pretty strong after the rules made them highly useful to the playing segment.

Collector models elicits images of companies like Pegaso. Those are the type of models you take the time to master paint and stick on a display shelf.

GW has done amazing things with complex multipart plastic kits and on that front they are ahead of the pack. Although there are still quality issues, the Lord-Celestant's mount in my AoS starter suffers from noticeable plastic warping which is very frustrating to deal with.

[onlyonepinman]

while no comment is a fair stance to make
I didn't say no comment, I just didn't cast a vote. I most certainly made a comment. Basically it boils down to what you're looking for - are you talking individual sculpts, small skirmish forces or large armies. I'd say in the latter category it's GW all the way. Skirmish forces it's probably someone else. For individual sculpts I couldn't possibly say because the competition in this category is so fierce, there's just too many good ones to choose from but Forgeworld are defintitely staking a very good claim on Games Workshop's behalf.

[Jarrett Lee]

In my books, they do.

All the other companies make great sculpts (well, except Mantic which IMO are consistently bad). Infinity models are gorgeous.

But most of those companies are also producing their models in "restic", resin or metal. I'm not a fan of any of those materials (resin is "okay" - sometimes a bear to clean up and expensive though).

I love the plastics GW makes - really easy and clear to assemble, great detail, paint up nicely, rarely get damaged.

So for me the combination of awesome sculpts and great materials makes them the best in the world.

[odinsgrandson]

The thing that GW does very well is add options in their plastic kits. No one gives you as many different bits as Gee-dub.

For some people, that's a drawback- they feel like they paid for a lot of parts that they didn't use. For some, it is a bonus- being able to easily create variants on the same mini is a good thing, and they soon acquire a healthy bits box for conversions- I've constructed many minis just out of my bitz box.

I paint a lot of miniatures, and can highly recommend the sculpting and casting quality from Studio McVey, Kingdom Death, Guild of Harmony, and Infamy (all of whom work in gaming scale). From what I've seen, Arena Rex minis look just as good as those. And as a second tier, I can recommend Mierce and Avatars of War.

When I want to do something fantastic at a competition level, I find myself reaching for Dark Sword miniatures more than anything else (their range is excellent, and very large). The style is the closest to true-scale proportions that I've seen at gaming scale, and the detail on the sculpted faces is fantastic.

They probably aren't to everyone's taste, though. For example, they aren't loaded up with fiddly bits like Privateer Press minis, Rackham's old line, or Reaper's more dungeon-punk Pathfinder minis. And they look odd next to GW's wacky proportions.


Now, Reaper is a great company because they didn't stop making their metal or resin kits just because they made them in Bones plastic. Most companies, when they move something over, they discontinue the old stuff that we loved (RIP Rackham). Reaper just keeps on doing cool things for lots of different audiences, and they do have some very nice sculpts in their lines (quick note- they have a lot of varied styles in their lines as well- their minis aren't really all meant to go together and be homogeneous).

And on a side note- I love chibi minis, but they are difficult to compare to other miniature lines because the styles are so incompatible.

[Alaric]

Pretty monopose models do not equate "best" to me. Its the multi part kits that are made of easy to work with materials (aka NOT fogging metal) that fit together well. Ive put together the following myself: dust, malifaux, wmh, bolt action (garbage) and firestorm armada. On every build all I wished was that gw made the models. Not cuz I wanna love n cherish ol gdub but because they really do make the best models. Now back to watching DA tell everyone how stupid they are...and getting away with it...right mods...

[odinsgrandson]

Pretty monopose models do not equate "best" to me. Its the multi part kits that are made of easy to work with materials (aka NOT fogging metal) that fit together well. Ive put together the following myself: dust, malifaux, wmh, bolt action (garbage) and firestorm armada. On every build all I wished was that gw made the models. Not cuz I wanna love n cherish ol gdub but because they really do make the best models. Now back to watching DA tell everyone how stupid they are...and getting away with it...right mods...


I get what you mean- the extra bits do add.

On the other hand, though, I've put together gw kits that I wish had been made by Wyrd- because they do such awesome dynamic poses that GW so often sacrifice in order to make the minis multi-posable.

When gw does make monopose minis, they tend to maximize them for ease of assembly, and tend to have areas where the detail just vanishes (like with the Space Hulk minis).

[Path Walker]

I actually think the "monopose" models are some of the best things GW have made in years, you get that extra bit of movement because they don't have to be compatible with other parts.

In my opinion, the plastic Nurgle Lord is a classic example, that pose wouldn't work in a multipart plastic kit very well but its a gorgeous model, almost literally oozing with character. The Putrid Blightkings are close to it, obviously based on that model and its a fantastic kit (and is, I don't know what you'd call it, semi poseable? there are a few options for each body/legs but outside of those you'd have to do a bit of conversion work) but nothing you can do with that box has the same air of menace and character as the monopose one.

But then, I'm more of a painter than a player, so I'd rather spend my time on one model than assemble a whole army.

[odinsgrandson]

But then, I'm more of a painter than a player, so I'd rather spend my time on one model than assemble a whole army.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one, and I do like the monopose GW minis. It's just that in that category, Wyrd tends to go the extra mile past them.

[CoffeeGrunt]

1) We've seen a tremendous increase in rulebook sharing (or outright pirating)

You can't really quantify that any more than the claim that piracy is increasing. Online it is, yes, but people were handed around VHS tapes casually long before them. I don't doubt book sharing was a common thing even in ye olden days. That's how I got to play anything as a kid, for one.

[YorkNecromancer]

Yorkie, what have you done?

Well, I posed a question that is deliberately impossible to answer in the hopes of generating an interesting discussion. Because 'yes' and 'no' are such wholly inadequate responses (as so many have pointed out), everyone has to clarify their position in the comments, thus making for a more detailed and thus hopefully more engaging discussion.

Of course there's no 'best' company! The fun is in arguing why. Which is exactly what everyone's been doing. :)

My own perspective is that GW is the best for me. That's because I'm a modeller and a hobbyist. So Infinity miniatures, while lovely and detailed, aren't really interesting to me, because I can't do my own thing with them. Not to mention they're true-scale, which I don't like (I much prefer the exaggerated style of heroic scale) and they're also super generic. Every faction looks like every other faction to me, and while I might try finding out the differences, I'm not that interested, because they look a lot like any other generic sci-fi future thing ever; all skintight suits and curved weapons. I get that people love that aesthetic, but it's not for me.

I've already covered my distaste for Reaper. Mantic's stuff just isn't there yet, and while some of the newer hard plastics are lovely, a lot of their stuff is truly horrible, especially everything for Kings of War, which is also generic as balls. I don't know why every company just tries to make Standard miniatures. Ain't nothing in the middle of the road but a dead skunk. That's another topic.

As for Anvil Industries, they're definitely my number two company - yes, the Afterlife stuff is mono-pose, but that's a side effect of the business model they're pursuing. Given that they began as a bits company, I can see them going back there once/if Afterlife is successful.

Tamiya makes the best tank kits in the world IMO, but they only do real kits, and never in 28mm scale, so there's not a lot they do I can use.

Privateer Press has exactly two factions of models I like: Cephelyx and Cyriss. Everything else they do leaves me cold... Not to mention the plastic resin they use is pretty horrible. The models that I have of theirs I really like, but there are very few of those.

So yeah, for me and my wants, it's GW, although there are a few companies getting closer. As Gott raised earlier, the lack of female models is utterly disgraceful in this day and age. But as a hobbyist, no other company comes close.

[Cutter]

Well, I posed a question that is deliberately impossible to answer in the hopes of generating an interesting discussion.

Yeah, you may as well have asked Do You Like GW?

Which should be you next poll btw :-)

[40kGamer]

You can't really quantify that any more than the claim that piracy is increasing. Online it is, yes, but people were handed around VHS tapes casually long before them. I don't doubt book sharing was a common thing even in ye olden days. That's how I got to play anything as a kid, for one.

I'm sure rulebook sharing has always been a thing but with the generational shift to more online usage coupled with the ease of pdf sharing, I can't imagine that the rate of rules 'pirating' hasn't increased.. even if it's stable it is one of many factors that muddy the waters with using rulebook sales as an indicator that models > games. I think that no one, not even GW themselves, can definitively answer this particular chicken vs egg argument. I do think they want it to be models > games so that is how they present it.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, you may as well have asked Do You Like GW?

Which should be you next poll btw :-)

We should have a poll that rates the game settings. GW definitely still have one of the best developed and most interesting game universes around.

[40kGamer]

Well, I posed a question that is deliberately impossible to answer in the hopes of generating an interesting discussion.

Of course there's no 'best' company! The fun is in arguing why. Which is exactly what everyone's been doing. :)

Stirring the pot... I like it! ;)


My own perspective is that GW is the best for me. That's because I'm a modeller and a hobbyist.

As for Anvil Industries, they're definitely my number two company - yes, the Afterlife stuff is mono-pose, but that's a side effect of the business model they're pursuing. Given that they began as a bits company, I can see them going back there once/if Afterlife is successful.

Tamiya makes the best tank kits in the world IMO, but they only do real kits, and never in 28mm scale, so there's not a lot they do I can use.

I'll have to give Anvil a browse to see what they have to offer. As for Tamiya... I've successfully used 1:48 scale WWII weapon kits to convert guardsmen to 'low tech'. The guns should be huge but the heroic scale of the GW minis compensates quite well.


So yeah, for me and my wants, it's GW, although there are a few companies getting closer. As Gott raised earlier, the lack of female models is utterly disgraceful in this day and age. But as a hobbyist, no other company comes close.

In the 90's GW was my go to company for all my Sci-Fi and Fantasy gaming/hobby needs. Since they felt compelled to make a lot of business decisions over the years that have forced me to other companies. For instance, I'm still a huge fan of the Specialist games that they found financially unviable... I must say that it is quite amazing what can be done in 6mm with modern tech. I've also moved to games like Infinity not just for the amazingly detailed and well proportioned models but also for the slick, flavorful and more 'balanced' game play.

I still find their setting to be interesting and flavorful, and some of their kits are amazing, but they're just not my favorite models anymore.

[Tristan Verolme]

Rather subjective of course.
I voted 'yes' but this doesn't mean my favorite mini is from GW, for me. Wyrd made great looking models, but all my models have broken, because their sculpts are too detailed. the designs are too small. And the don't have the style that they used to have at first.
GW has the best service available. Here in the Netherlands there's a games workshop store in almost every major city or town. They also offer a varied assortment of mini's, I think there's something for everyone. And all of it is top notch quality.

[YorkNecromancer]

Stirring the pot... I like it!

Well, more interested in conversation than anything else. :)


I'll have to give Anvil a browse to see what they have to offer.

Do it. Their stuff's wonderful.


Wyrd made great looking models, but all my models have broken, because their sculpts are too detailed. the designs are too small. And the don't have the style that they used to have at first.

That's the problem with truescale; the manufacturer's kind of irrelevant. At 28mm, everything in truescale becomes so thin and fragile that it's like playing with models made of ricecake.

And heaven help you if you want to try gluing tiny metal bodies to tinier metal arms. No way you're getting a pin vice bit into a piece four microns thin.

That said, I really love some of Wyrd's aesthetic. They're another company that knows exactly what they want to produce, and isn't going to sell out to make some generic-as-f**k looking models to do it.

[Lucidum]

Yeah it’s definitely an opinion whether or not GW makes the best.

However, while their models do have a level of detail and precision that many companies lack, I think nobody can argue that other companies do miniatures with far more exciting and a wider range of poses. When it comes to cornering the market, though, most other companies represent women more positively (i.e., at all) than GW. I don’t need to remind anyone that Sisters of Battle are dead in the water, while some companies like Raging Heroes: Toughest Girls in the Galaxy are offering entire lines of female models that cater to a range of different interests.

[40kGamer]

Well, more interested in conversation than anything else. :)

I actually meant that in a good way... poor choice of words on my part! :)


That's the problem with truescale; the manufacturer's kind of irrelevant. At 28mm, everything in truescale becomes so thin and fragile that it's like playing with models made of ricecake.

And heaven help you if you want to try gluing tiny metal bodies to tinier metal arms. No way you're getting a pin vice bit into a piece four microns thin.

It can be difficult to work with Truescale pieces. (I prefer metal for them as it is more durable). Pinning is still possible although it can be a huge chore with some parts! I keep a microbit drill set about with some extremely thin brass rod, wire for those occasions. After doing some micro-pinning paperclips feel enormous the next time you use them! :p

[Kirsten]

I think GW offer a good balance in their kits.

Detail is above many competitors, but not all.

Ease of assembly is above most competitors, but not all.

Conversion is easy enough.

They also produce kits up to the task of regular gaming. Other companies may offer highly detailed replicas, but without design consideration beyond looking ace in a cabinet.

So overall, whilst they may not be objectively the best in any given area, they offer a more rounded product.

this. there are maybe a few companies that make slightly better looking stuff, but very few, and not by much. but nothing compares to Games Workshop in terms of ease of building, range, conversions, durability... they aren't even that expensive compared to most other model companies, given that a lot of the models people praise as better can easily be £8-10 for an individual model. I am liking the Raging Heroes stuff, but they aren't better, just a different design style. and they are a pain to assemble.

[spiralingcadaver]

They make above average and highly flexible kits (probably the best multipose kits).

I'd argue that plenty of companies make monopose models that are head and shoulders better than GW, though.

[Denzark]

Yeah it’s definitely an opinion whether or not GW makes the best.

However, while their models do have a level of detail and precision that many companies lack, I think nobody can argue that other companies do miniatures with far more exciting and a wider range of poses. When it comes to cornering the market, though, most other companies represent women more positively (i.e., at all) than GW. I don’t need to remind anyone that Sisters of Battle are dead in the water, while some companies like Raging Heroes: Toughest Girls in the Galaxy are offering entire lines of female models that cater to a range of different interests.

SOME other companies make SOME far more exciting miniatures, SOME of which may have a wider range of poses than SOME GW models.

Not including the multi-part kits where you have total control over poses.

As to representing women more positively, whilst I like the baps, buns and guns theme of Toughest Girls in the Galaxy, I would expect some of the denizens of the feminism thread may take issue with quite how positive they are.

[Psychosplodge]

Well, I posed a question that is deliberately impossible to answer in the hopes of generating an interesting discussion. Because 'yes' and 'no' are such wholly inadequate responses (as so many have pointed out), everyone has to clarify their position in the comments, thus making for a more detailed and thus hopefully more engaging discussion.


Yes but this is the internet

http://i.imgur.com/7bk03Gz.jpg

[daboarder]

Yes but this is the internet

http://i.imgur.com/7bk03Gz.jpg

meh, its going fine for now

[Psychosplodge]

True. I'm just pre-panicing in preparation.

[daboarder]

True. I'm just pre-panicing in preparation.

fair call

edit: nice picture though

[Psychosplodge]

Yeah google is good like that...

[Subs]

In my opinion yes. There may be better individual sculpts out there by other companies for single concepts but well it comes to turning out well sculpted mini's based on solid concepts with well developed design work behind them, no one else even comes close. Yes Kabuki and others do slightly better females, yes other companies produce slightly more technical kits that can be seen as more of a modeling challenge and so more rewarding to finish, but no one comes close for across the board quality. Name one company that produces Humans, Elves, Dwarfs, Orks and every other variation of style that GW does. They don't, they concentrate on getting one sculpting style to near perfection, not on getting them all to high quality.

(And added to which most of the other companies need to step up and realise that not all GW is high gothic in style and that they draw equally from the Art Deco and Bauhaus technocratic styles as well.)

[Wizzardx3]

Granted, I've limited experience. I've done some Reaper, Battlefront, and TrollCast (through Impact). There is less cleanup/filling on the multipart plastic than on any of the others. Battlefront is getting close with their plastic infantry and the one-piece Reaper ones have been nice, but for customization noone approaches what I can do with just a hobby knife and clippers to a GW kit.

[XionXxen]

The best thing about GW is their models are so interchangeable and poseable. You can take heads, arms, legs and weapons and switch them around almost limitlesly. No other company yet has such a wide range that all fit together so well.

[Caitsidhe]

This survey should serve as a wake up call to them if nothing else. There was a time when GW would be coming out on top hands down. That helped offset the crappy rules a great deal. The fact that they can't even dominate on the model front is just another nine inch nail.

[Cutter]

This survey should serve as a wake up call to them if nothing else. There was a time when GW would be coming out on top hands down. That helped offset the crappy rules a great deal. The fact that they can't even dominate on the model front is just another nine inch nail.

Head like a hole?
Black as your soul?
I'd rather die?
Than give you control?

[CoffeeGrunt]

a
This survey should serve as a wake up call to them if nothing else. There was a time when GW would be coming out on top hands down. That helped offset the crappy rules a great deal. The fact that they can't even dominate on the model front is just another nine inch nail.

No it's not. The internet has allowed smaller vendors reach they simply couldn't have 20 years back. The world has changed massively, and thus the market has changed. GW are still an institution of note, but now they're not the only horse in the race. Smaller companies are putting out fantastic sculpts from all over the world. You've got Ukrainian companies, Polish companies, French, Australian, American, Italian, and I can sit at this here PC in Norfolk, UK and order any of them...

Granted, this means the competition's tougher than ever for GW. But for people who enjoy this hobby, it's almost a renaissance.

[Mr Mystery]

PP do god awful models, such as their Colossals - big yes, detailed? Barely.

Should they also give up and go home, or do we accept that it's a matter of personal taste rather than absolute fact?

[Cutter]

But for people who enjoy this hobby, it's almost a renaissance.

Yup, my undead army has minis from seven different companies in it.


do we accept that it's a matter of personal taste rather than absolute fact?

Some of us do :-)

[CoffeeGrunt]

PP do god awful models, such as their Colossals - big yes, detailed? Barely.

Should they also give up and go home, or do we accept that it's a matter of personal taste rather than absolute fact?

Yeah, I'd take an Y'vahra Battlesuit over the Imperatus Colossal or that massive Khador Conquest any day. Better material, much more detailed sculpt, more pleasing aesthetic to me, and it's cheaper. The Conquest reminds me of Epic Titans, but without any added detail or improvement when scaled up.

Why spend £86 on that when you can get an Y'vahra for £72?


Yup, my undead army has minis from seven different companies in it.

My Guard have got GW, Kromlech, Puppetswar, Raging Heroes, Victoria Minis and Maxmini in it. That said, I'm always looking for more... :P

[Kadmon]

I've seen a lot of members arguing for or against the quality of GW's minis, but the question was about the company itself.
Personally I dislike the "heroic scale" minis, and I find the Space Marines too small for 1:56-1:48 scale that most people use for 40K games. However I do find GW the best miniatures company - otherwise they wouldn't be on the top of the world, lauging.

[Cutter]

That said, I'm always looking for more... :P

That's what rogue traders and the explorator fleets are for, isn't it ;-)

[daboarder]

What the heck happened here?

Is there a post that has been deleted or did we just decide to start dissing models other may or may not prefer to GW alternatives?

[Alaric]

Head like a hole?
Black as your soul?
I'd rather die?
Than give you control?

Nice.

[Cutter]

Nice.

I had no choice, fairycat having invoked the nine inch nail(s).

- - - Updated - - -


otherwise they wouldn't be on the top of the world, lauging.

There's not a huge amount of laughing from Lenton these days.

[AnEnemy]

However I do find GW the best miniatures company - otherwise they wouldn't be on the top of the world, lauging.

Using that logic, McDonalds serves better food than a five star restaurant.

Personally, I feel GW is void of originality in their sculpts. All too often lately you'll find models cannibalizing models from other armies.


I can't remember the last time I looked at a GW main model and went, "wow!"

Best miniatues company nowadays? Going by sculpts I'd say Corvus Belli or Kingdom Death.

[Fueldrop]

Just had some fun with Heroforge.

Say what you will, but the option to design your own models is one hell of a gimmick. It's almost as expensive as buying GW clam packs, so not army-level, and I haven't actually got the model yet so I'm not certain how good it'll be, but it's a cool feature.

For buying models in bulk, such as cultists or guard, I'd suggest that Wargames Factory is a solid contender by the logic that quantity has a quality all its own. You can get stuff at 10% of GW prices, which is a huge deal when you're assembling a horde army. Individual model quality is admittedly lower, though.

Also, they have models that are solid options for IK, at a far lower price. They also have customization options for them, which is nice.

I'd rather buy GW models, but the price difference is a pretty huge deal on a budget. In the end it's all about finding the sweet spot between the two extremes.

[grimmas]

If the measure of a business is the amount of money made then GW is the best miniatures company by a long way. But that's a direct reply to the poll.

As for the topic title. Still yes but not because they are better than every other companies miniatures in everyway. When you add up all the factors, quality, material, detail, availability customer service and the rest GW still comes out on top

[Ruleslawyer]

I would qualify it this way - They are not the best miniature company(many make better looking ones) but they are the best in terms of usability and robustness (especially their newer plastics) combined with aesthetics.

[Comoran]

I voted "Yes" for best company (overall, marketing, and such) but I don't consider their miniatures the best.
They have some lovely minis, but almost every company have those - the ones you wish to own and paint, and hope to use in a game in the future :)
I don't like "heroic scale", I prefer their LotR range of minis, so I hope they'll do similar things in the future.

[eosgreen]

the gw plastic kits are REALLY good if not the best. people who are bad painters/modelers often tout forgeworld but they have so many miscasts and issues.... resin in general is awful and metal minis from other companys a lot of times have HORRIBLE mold lines over details

[RexInvictus]

Nothing can compete with Kingdom Death, as far as I am concerned.

[Popsical]

No. No one is the best miniatures company. All have pros and cons. Aesthetic tastes of each person make it a pointless question.

[Agramar]

Time ago,maybe.Today...obviously no

[Nathan Flentjar]

Their customer service used to be great, but now it's *terrible*. Just really, really bad. Their prices are atrocious for what you get. They've moved towards monopose kits. The design influences that are evident in the latest IG release, as well as the last Chaos release, Centurions, etc, are a mess. Somebody just put this bloated mess of a company out of its ******* misery so someone who cares about the gaming community can take over the IP.

I'd call them the worst, but Defiance Games took that particular trophy home years ago :p

[Dalleron]

Having seen pics of the kingdom death models and having put together some of the new malifaux kits together, GW is not the best mini company out there.

[packard57]

They do make some good figures and I have quite a few and with the resources they have they should be good ,but at this moment in time I would say that Anvil Industries are beating them for quality .I have purchased a fair number of their resin figures and all have been perfect casts with few mould lines and little clean up needed.The detail is top line and the poses very well done.However beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in this sort of debate we can all shoot each other down.

[Vlad78]

Time ago,maybe.Today...obviously no

Same here.

The new aethetic since they massively turned to plastic and tried to create new concepts for IP protection sake is absolutely terrible.

The practicality of the big kits is poor concerning the transportation.

The quality of details and carvings of the new plastic kits is poor imho and the increase of the miniatures scale isn't an efficient remedy.

On the good side, the technical aspect of their latest miniatures, how the parts fit, is outstanding, but that's not enough to make them better than the competition.

Many Avatars of war minis have more flavor, same with the latest infinity kits, and many other companies. GW lost its inspiration.

[Brent]

GW figures of individual humans and aliens are, on the whole, very good. I don't think they're the best in the industry any more, but they are in the top tier. They're way too expensive, though, and the trend toward single-pose figures is a real step back.

Their larger figures, as many other posters have noted, are lacking in detail and very expensive compared to what other companies produce.

But for me, GW vehicles are the worst of the lot, just brutal. The designs are completely ridiculous, the detail is meager, and there are few (if any) options in the kit. GW's still using many molds that are 10-15 years old (Land Speeder, Rhino, Land Raider). Even their newer kits don't have half the detail or features that have become standard in the plastic kit market (check out a Tamiya tank kit in comparison). And GW vehicle kits are hideously expensive to boot....

[Talys]

Subjectively, yes, GW miniatures are the best in the world to me, because they make me happier, on a whole, than miniatures from any other company. I also spend 10x more on GW miniatures than every other manufacturer put together.

Objectively, "whatever". GW has some of the best tooling on the market for HIPS in that they can put tons of detail onto minis, and they know how to chop a mini into 10 pieces to create lots of awesome negative space and interesting shapes that other companies typically do less well. Does it translate into "better miniatures"? That's just a matter of preference, IMO.

@Brent - I actually love GW vehicles :P Though I would concur that many vehicles are dated, and some newer ones are much fancier than some older ones. Still, even Drop Pods are iconic.

[Katharon]

http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/2242i8B8F27D2CC7A3B6A/image-size/large/is-moderation-mode/true?v=mpbl-1&px=600

[Ben_There_Twice]

I voted no but they dont have to be the best cause i buy them for the game/fluff. There are so many options, and particularly when you compare them to non Wargaming models they really aren't that great. Amongst wargaming models they are amongst the best but I wouldn't say the best, especially since the Finecast Fiasco. Maybe I just have bad luck with GW minis. I still buy them though cause I play the game and I am in love with the fluff. However if there was no game nor universe I would go elsewhere for better prices/quality. They are good enough IMO and that is why I buy them.

[daboarder]

http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/2242i8B8F27D2CC7A3B6A/image-size/large/is-moderation-mode/true?v=mpbl-1&px=600

it was posted on the frontpage, hence the new traffic

[CoffeeGrunt]

I always laugh when people say GW vehicle kits are unrealistic/stupid.

Do some research, a lot of them are actually based pretty shamelessly on real vehicles. Hell, even that ugly ol' Taurox is very close to a British vehicle currently deployed in Afghanistan, just with tracks instead of wheels...

[Andrew Thomas]

Ironically, Pepsi has never in the history of cocktails, been included as a mixer.

GW isn't the best overall because of price-point and difficulty of assembly. That they have availability and brand recognition in their favor doesn't hurt, but there are cheaper, easier to assemble kits out there, with decent variety and detail.

[StingrayP226]

I always laugh when people say GW vehicle kits are unrealistic/stupid.

Do some research, a lot of them are actually based pretty shamelessly on real vehicles. Hell, even that ugly ol' Taurox is very close to a British vehicle currently deployed in Afghanistan, just with tracks instead of wheels...

I would vote the reasons behind this are proportions of many models, from the freakish Imperial Guard (who look like they all abuse steroids when they are suppose to be this force of disposable bodies...), to most of the transports (How am I suppose to fit that many marines in that Rhino?).

GW makes some great models do not get me wrong, but other companies do a better job of delivering better miniatures. What GW miniatures does better than others is allowing more customization options than anyone else, but at a cost... a high cost in many cases. They are also (ignoring Finecast) one of better companies.

[daboarder]

I always laugh when people say GW vehicle kits are unrealistic/stupid.

Do some research, a lot of them are actually based pretty shamelessly on real vehicles. Hell, even that ugly ol' Taurox is very close to a British vehicle currently deployed in Afghanistan, just with tracks instead of wheels...

I always laugh when people make silly points like this

maybe do some research of your own?

Actual vehicle design shows things like the fact that the Leman russ breach doesnt actually fit in the turret, the recoild would blow it off, thunderhawks and storm ravens are un-aerodynamic bricks etc ecte

People are talking about the scale and the discrepancies. I dont really agree that makes the designs bad but Im not going to sit here and pretend those claims aren't accurate or misconstrue them

[Mike X]

Not even close. With incredible sculpts from companies like Kingdom Death and Hawk Wargames, even the most detailed GW miniature is still sub-par to these new startups.

[Psychosplodge]

Ironically, Pepsi has never in the history of cocktails, been included as a mixer.


Maybe not listed as such, but I've certainly drank cocktails that used pepsi for the "coke" element of them.

[Iago Torres Piñeiro]

In my opinion, WG make excelent miniatures, but with the time they raise to much their prices.

now with de miniature digital edition to many company make high level minis

[40kGamer]

I always laugh when people say GW vehicle kits are unrealistic/stupid.

Do some research, a lot of them are actually based pretty shamelessly on real vehicles. Hell, even that ugly ol' Taurox is very close to a British vehicle currently deployed in Afghanistan, just with tracks instead of wheels...

The majority of gripes are all about the scale. Most of the vehicles are terribly proportioned, especially the transports.

[Erik Setzer]

It's all opinion based, but I'll throw in my own opinion, because why not?

I'm going to say "No." Not because I'm a GW hater (sit down, trolls), but because I'm a realist.

I love a lot of GW's figures. Heck, when I'm not using them, I'll gladly put the ones I've painted on display at home. (Yes, part of that is also personal ego showing off my decent artistic talent, but they're good canvases for that.) There's models I've loved for armies I don't play that almost got me to consider breaking my personal rule about not buying models I don't intend to use.

First, it's obvious that the non-gaming companies have a leg up, because they're making actual models for modelers. For all that Games Workshop loves to talk up how it makes the best models in the world and act like the games don't exist and aren't the reason people buy their models, they can't make models with the complexity of some of the top tank kits out there. Most gamers aren't modelers. They just aren't. Most of the new AoS models I've seen people playing with so far aren't even primed, much less have any amount of painting on them, and I have to stop myself from raging at all the mold lines I see. I remind myself that gamers aren't modelers, they just want to play games. Give these folks something with the complexity of the Dragon M1 kit that came out over 10 years ago (they've probably got a new one that's even better), and they would just skip over it, or lose their minds trying to assemble it.

So, okay, we've defined the parameters. But then that still leaves a lot of competitors.

Privateer Press has some models that are beautiful, but the warmachines that Warmachine is named for are not "top" quality. Oh, they look cool, to be sure, but that's not quite enough. So they can't top GW.

But then we get to ones like Wyrd and the guys who do Infinity. Those are absolutely amazing miniatures. Malifaux especially has impressive models, and Wyrd also makes a kit that lets you build eleven assorted female miniatures. That's meant for RPGs, sure, but it's still gaming miniatures.

The miniatures for the new Halo game are looking rather nice so far, especially considering the scale.

Bolt Action has some really good models. But it might be just shy of "the best."

Frostgrave has some really nice models.

Then there's Avatar of War. Holy smokes, those models look nice, especially characters, and I'd gladly use them in my Warhammer army.

And we have some third party companies. Kromlech makes Orks that, if I didn't play so often in situations that don't allow non-GW models, I'd gladly use them over the GW Orks. There are people making IG figures that are superior to the standard Cadians.

Keep digging, and you'll find more and more. And heck, Reaper makes some really nice miniatures as well, though mostly intended for RPGs. (We could possibly even toss in FFG with the miniatures for their games, but they're mostly a different style. Still, that AT-ST for Imperial Assault is awesome, and the figures are pretty good.)

Games Workshop's been giving themselves negative marks (again, in my opinion) lately as they've shifted more and more to throwing too much stuff on models just to claim "more detail," and, more importantly, making models with few or zero options (most times ZERO with characters), and models that require converting just to be useful in their given purpose (gaming) without looking weird, like Harlequins, where if you don't work at some hefty converting, even the squads end up looking way too similar. The new Stormfiends look nice individually, but as a unit they're disappointing because they look exactly the same and would require practically rebuilding the model to change the posing even the slightest. It's a similar situation with Verminlords or even Bloodthirsters, where you're encouraged to have multiples for the different sets of rules, but even with weapon swaps, the large bodies being the exact same pose is not a good look on the table (I've seen a guy with four of the new Bloodthirsters, using them all in a game last week... even being different types of BT didn't stop them blending in together). And then there's the Stormcast Eternals where you have an entire army that looks the same, with every piece of armor or weapon exaggerated, using an artistic style for basic troops that looks like Warmachine and first edition Warzone Bauhaus had a child together, and the characters try to make up for that by having way too much stuff thrown onto them. (The newer Khorne models, for the most part, look great though, although they do suffer from the lack of posing options, and the large beast in AoS looks pathetic, with more issues than I can list here.)

If you start taking all kinds of things into account, GW starts slipping badly with recent efforts. While they continue to push up their price claiming they're "premium" products, they've been producing more and more mono-pose models that are either ridiculously hard or impossible to convert. Characters are coming out in single poses without options, which is a bit of a shock to the system when you see prior kits that looked just as good but had a bunch of options. That single pose with no options also makes it hard to field more than one of a certain type of character, despite that being a desirable thing to do with many characters or units in-game. The cohesive look starts to degrade. The game pieces are becoming less useful to gaming, and at that point, they lose their appeal. The company seems to view them as museum pieces where you don't worry about their usability in a game or how they look in an army but rather in staged photos or on a shelf... but if I'm getting miniatures to look pretty on a shelf, I have plenty of better options, often at a better price.

So, going on just the artistic quality, they aren't "the best" (they're hanging in the top crowd, certainly), but if you start judging on usability, price, etc., they start falling behind.

And Failcast gets huge negative marks, because you should never rush to replace a material with a much cheaper material to save costs, make it more expensive, lie about the reasoning, and, worse of all, use a material that warps way too easily, making it useless in areas like Florida, or so brittle that it snaps with a glance. Even Chinese knock-offs aren't that bad, so shame on a major manufacturer for using such a horrible material.

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Do some research, a lot of them are actually based pretty shamelessly on real vehicles. Hell, even that ugly ol' Taurox is very close to a British vehicle currently deployed in Afghanistan, just with tracks instead of wheels...

The only problem with the Taurox was that choice to put silly looking tracks on it. Swap them for wheels and it looks pretty cool. I plan on getting one with a wheel kit to use as a transport for my Arbites (using IG Veteran rules). It seems like the perfect SWAT vehicle.

The scale, as mentioned, is off by a good bit, and sometimes it's a bit weird to consider a vehicle as opposed to the fluff, i.e. how the Crusader carries more guys than a normal Land Radier but has the exact same interior. Similarly, a Razorback loses seats from a Rhino, but there's nothing about the model to suggest that. Sure, they're saving money, which in another dimension would have been passed on to the consumer, but if you're just judging how "realistic" it is, that does become an issue. (Not one I care about, because these are game pieces, so some fudging of dimensions and all is okay.)