AoS Spoilerific Background Discussion.

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

So just like the five End Times threads......

HERE BE SPOILERS.

Go no further if you don't want spoilers....

Everyone else?

Ready......








Steady........








GO!

Just nabbed me background book, so no actual spoilers from me yet. But I am due for a nice, relaxing poo, and what better place to get some reading done than when ensconced upon the household throne.

[Captain Bubonicus]

Soon you'll have two steaming piles instead of just one!

[Cap'nSmurfs]

So:

Our gods are the incarnates, with a few tweaks. Alarielle is the reclusive goddess of the realm of Life. Nagash is god of the realm of Death, because of course he is - he's discovered by Sigmar beneath an enormous cairn in an ancient underworld (ie. the Nehekharan underworld, or what remained of it). Gorkamorka is sometimes one two-headed god, sometimes two one-headed gods - one head's brutal, the other's cunnin'. He fights Sigmar to a standstill and joined his grand alliance (which broke up later) because he gave him such a good scrap. Tyrion is the god of Light, and of course he's blind. But Teclis is still knocking around too. Malerion, who appears to be a fusion of Malekith and his dragon Seraphon (so they don't get accused of nicking the character from Marvel), has a bad time of it - like all the Gods, he's actually formless until he works out how to manifest his physical form again. He's not happy. He eventually finds Morathi partying down with some shadow daemons. She's flesh and blood but, uh, "changed".

Grungni is now basically Hephaestos, the crippled smith-god. He's the closest friend of Sigmar and helped forge the Stormcast. He's off in the Realm of Metals somewhere at the moment. As is Ghal Maraz, which Sigmar had thought lost for a long time (they think they've found it at the end of the book).

Grimnir, or Gotrek as he used to be (isn't stated outright but that's what happened in The Doom of Gotrek!) got shattered into a bunch of pieces fighting the Mother of Salamanders. She turned into a volcano when she exploded, so it's a draw.

There's no elves outside of Azyrheim yet. Tyrion and Malerion were both vexed by this, which is why they went off and successfully captured Slaanesh. Nothing more is said about that other than Slaanesh's absence. I'm fairly sure that the absence of Slaanesh, Tyrion/Teclis/Malerion capturing Slaanesh to find/rescue the elves, and Morathi's strange resurrection will form a storyline in itself later, probably one that introduces our new Age of Sigmar elves.

The BOLS frontpage was - predictably - dead wrong (or at least premature) about Slaanesh being replaced by the Great Horned Rat - it isn't the case at all, at least, not yet. There's still the four Chaos Gods we know and love, it's just that they've also invited the GHR to a sort of kiddy-table at the side of the pantheon (making clear what was always implicit, that the Skaven were servants of Chaos) and Slaanesh is "missing". The GHR is best buds with Nurgle for the moment, as Clan Pestilens is in the ascendancy. The Skaven sort of tear holes in reality in order to appear, which is pretty cool if you ask me. It's implied that the Skaven were doing better than they are just now, but in classic ratmen fashion they ****ed it up somehow at the moment of their triumph.

Alarielle preserved certain spirits from the world-that-was in soulpods. She seeded Ghyran with some of them. A rotting fragment of the Oak of Ages also tumbled through the void to land in Ghyran, which is how Nurgle's rot initially got in.

Nagash betrayed Sigmar, because he's Nagash, and broke up the alliance (although nobody else cared as much about the alliance as Sigmar and Grungni anyway). Then Nagash got his **** wrecked by Archaon Everchosen (who is once more the general of the armies of Chaos, although there isn't yet much detail about how he survived), and had to be propped up on his throne by the Mortarchs to do his regeneration thing again. The Mortarchs in this age aren't named, but Arkhan has an illustration, Neferata and Mannfred are both in pictures. None of the other old Undead characters are pictured (RIP Vlad). The best art in the book is Nagash art, if you ask me.

There were lots of civilisations throughout the Realms, although now most of them have been exterminated or fallen to Chaos. Their technology level tended to be a bit more barbaric than we're used to in the Old World but there were exceptions. What's left now clusters in Azyrheim, or in pockets in and around the Realms. At the dawn of Sigmar's counter-attack, all sorts of other forces are also on the move, seeing their chance to maybe turn the tide against Chaos. One of the most tantalizing parts is Alarielle realizing her long seclusion is over and that she'll have to become a warrior again. There's a picture of a big green sword amidst some roots with that, dunno if it portends anything.

There. That's a ramble. There's a lot more. If I have a background criticism it's that the Eternals themselves are a bit... thigh-slapping "what ho, heroic friends!" for my liking in the fiction, and also that unlike the End Times the accounts of battles are very thin (but then, that's because they're just setting up the circumstances for the scenario they're presenting). But it's a good book.

[Mr Mystery]

So far, it's interesting.

Whereas the Old World was a fairly set background, this new stuff is much more dynamic, as we might expect from their new approach of an ongoing narrative.

From where I'm up to, Tyrion, Teclies, Alarielle, Moralion and Morathi are the only Elves/Aelfs. Nobody seems to know where the others are - but it's suggested trying to find them is why Slaanesh got Gimpnapped.

And speaking of Slaanesh, there's no suggestion it's gone for good, nor has the Horned Rat replaced it in the pantheon - at least, not yet anyways.

So far, the only 'hmm' moment I've had is after Sigmar and Gorkamorka have duked it out, and it ends with mutual guffawing.... But hey, whatevs. This is later redeemed when Gorkamorka goes it's own way - and occasionally splits into Gork and Mork, before rejoining into Gorkamorka once more.

Much as the game itself, not everyone is guaranteed to enjoy the new background, but for the most part I'm enjoying it. The general gist is that Sigmar's opening assault has brought the other races back out of hiding to join the struggle.

Favourite bit for me is the general feel - it's the opposite of the 'trying to keep Chaos in its box' were used to from Warhammer and indeed 40k, instead being a struggle to put Chaos back in its box.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

There are aelves, but they're only in Azyrheim (ie. they're scattered survivors from the Old World's cataclysm). There's none anywhere else.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Feels strange to have hundreds of years of wars and made-then-broken alliances prepackaged in the new setting. Strikes me as a bit of a missed opportunity when they could've had that background build up in the first year or two.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's a bit jarring, yes, especially with the ***-backwards chronology of the AoS book (which makes sense in the context of it being a companion volume to the starter set, and in literally no other manner). Several times, because it puts the "Sigmar's strike against Chaos" stuff up front and the deeper background later it does things like say: well, Sigmar did this, before it's even really got to who the **** Sigmar even is. It's fun, though, when you get into it and realize that not only do you have the ongoing narrative to look forward to and participate in, but also the slow reveal of What Happened After the End. It's the same reason the 40k setting works, a mixture of crises, triumphs and defeats in the Now mixed with the opportunity to explore a little-understood and mythologized past.

It's also worth saying: this is a gorgeous book. The art and the pictures of miniatures are second-to-none. The design of the thing likewise is also very clean and well-presented.

[ElectricPaladin]

What's going on with my Lizards?

[Lexington]

Here's a question - any people? The thing that's really turned me off to AoS' background is the fact that it seems to be all about the gods and their immortal servants duking it out in a land of pure magic with no consequences one way or another. Without some good ol' mortals thrown into the mix, a setting feels weightless, at least to me.

[Mr Mystery]

Definitely mortals.

Humans are mentioned, but in terms of photos there's so far only a War Altar, Warrior Priests and Flagellants shown.

Their situation, beyond being hunted by various Chaos forces isn't particularly elaborated on. For my money, they're being 'saved up' for a future volume, reflecting the newly restored order of the Age of Sigmar. I'm expecting them to keep the general Empire aesthetic. And then expand from there.

- - - Updated - - -


What's going on with my Lizards?

Seraphon are the Lizardmen - seemingly no change to their appearance or background.

[ElectricPaladin]

Definitely mortals.

Humans are mentioned, but in terms of photos there's so far only a War Altar, Warrior Priests and Flagellants shown.

Their situation, beyond being hunted by various Chaos forces isn't particularly elaborated on. For my money, they're being 'saved up' for a future volume, reflecting the newly restored order of the Age of Sigmar. I'm expecting them to keep the general Empire aesthetic. And then expand from there.

- - - Updated - - -



Seraphon are the Lizardmen - seemingly no change to their appearance or background.

I know the Seraphon are the Lizardmen, but... what? They haven't been doing anything?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

There isn't much background on what any of the races have been doing, outside the forces of Chaos and the Stormcast Eternals. It's what subsequent books will be for.

[Path Walker]

This is such a nice book, really well laid out with some brilliant art work. Its the start of a whole new world, there is a lot more to come but I'm really happy with this book, the missions and extra rules for different realms (including more flavoured Triumph tables) are really cool and I'm looking forward to starting a campaign to fight back against Sigmar and his filthy followers

[Erik Setzer]

I'll probably have my book tomorrow (had it sent to the local GW for free, but Saturday I was at a con with some friends), so I'll give it a proper read then. But I'm still not impressed with what I'm hearing. Some of it sounds like it's not really been planned out and they're rushing a background together. The justification for the setting feels flimsy.

It's like this:

There was a bustling world full of interesting, varied races and gods, who had their own civilizations, all kinds of good stuff. Then one day Chaos won and blew it up. Only Sigmar survived.
Sigmar was so insanely powerful that not only did he survive a reality-destroying rift, he also brought back all the Incarnates, called them "gods," but forgot to mention they're not really gods. Some seem powerful enough to challenge gods, others are so weedy they get killed by their fellow long-dead Old World characters (hi, Nagash and Archaon!).
Sigmar also set up a bunch of interconnected realms, and plopped people down on them all. He created new life! Lots of it!
Oh, but then Chaos showed up, and it kicked his butt, and he ran off to hide and gather a new army. Meanwhile, Chaos has the ability to rampage through these realms for hundreds of years, destroying the magical civilizations that sprang out of Sigmar's mind and into reality, but Chaos, even while triumphant, doesn't blow up the realm like they did the old world. Because somehow triumphing before made Chaos weaker?
Sigmar made billions and billions of people from his own power, which is why millions can be slaughtered but there's still some people alive. Somewhere. Just off-camera. We swear they're there. But, you know, you're hear for war, right? So shut up and stop asking about the civilizations that would be required to exist for all this war to happen in the first place and just believe that Magical Sigmar creates new life to fight. This is WARhammer, not anything else, people are magically made out of thin air to fight in unending WAR that has to end in stalemate, even though we swear there's already been a back-and-forth.
And then Sigmar bursts back out onto the scene, after hundreds of years, to save what should no longer exist. And, judging by the terrain and pictures, he's saving realms that have long since been obliterated by Chaos, which, with the End Times, we've established is exactly what would have happened the moment he fled.

So... yeah. They'll find people who will love anything GW does and won't find all these holes in the story, but so far I'm not hearing even the GW fanatics explaining away those holes. And since I'm not a child, I want some actual background and a more "realistic" (such as it is) explanation of what's happening in the world, not, "This is WARhammer, so WAR is all there is." 40K is much more interesting because there's civilizations and pockets of peace and all kinds of stuff. AoS so far is just "ONLY WAR!!!!" and there's no way to have bodies to still feed into that, especially as it's already been past its own End Times, unless they're now saying the End Times was a fluke that happened just so they could blow up the world to make Outland and populate it with... I'm not sure yet.

I really need that book. Even being the limited edition, I'll read my copy, just because I can't imagine they wiped out 30 years of background for something so juvenile.

[Erik Setzer]

I will say that my opinion definitely could change if I get the book and find out that no one's relaying important bits of fluff. Holding off "final judgment" for that.