Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WWzgGyAH6Y

Looks rather good. Wonder Woman > all though.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/2f04f052286222636664cc650730e96e/tumblr_nrcbd3x4Xj1rcjo9to1_250.gifhttp://33.media.tumblr.com/5008d33e52dec7e3e8fae7ed609f36b3/tumblr_nrcbd3x4Xj1rcjo9to2_250.gif
I'll be in my bunk.

[Mr Mystery]

Nope, not for me.

[Tyrendian]

that might actually be the first of theirs I go to watch in an actual cinema as opposed to happen to stumble across on freeTV...

[Mr Mystery]

It might turn out good, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Man of Steel showed another visually gorgeous Zak Snyder movie, but once again at the price of a decent plot.

Whilst not a big fan of DC, I want their films to take off to prevent Marvel from getting lazy and formulaic (though with positive reviews for Ant-Man, they're so far 12 for 12 in decent to great films.

[Fueldrop]

After Man Of Steel I'm apathetic towards this at best. Still, should be better than the new FF movie.

Can't wait for Deadpool movie. That should rock because Deadpool.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Interesting to see they're making the wanton destruction of Metropolis a major plot point for this movie. Still wary of it, but it's looking better than the last trailer...

[Kirsten]

I thought Man of Steel was brilliant, really looking forward to this.

[eldargal]

I didn't mind MoS, I'm going to see this just for Wonder Woman but the trailer has me starting to get excited for more than just her. Really liking how expressive and badass Gal Gadot is looking hopefully her dialogue matches it.

[Lexington]

"Hey, remember how Zak Snyder managed to completely botch a panel-for-panel adaptation of Watchmen?"

"Who could forget?"

"Well, what do you think would happen if we also let him do The Dark Knight Returns?"

"I don't know, but I'm willing to pay several hundred million dollars to find out!"

[Mr Mystery]

There is that.

However, although Watchmen isn't a patch on its source material, I did watch the film first, then read the comic book, so I suspect I enjoyed the film far more for that.

Just can't shake the feeling that they're aiming for Avengers, but are about to wind up with a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...

[Kirsten]

I preferred the Watchmen film, tighter and better handled. the graphic novel dragged and got a bit silly.

[YorkNecromancer]

The 'Watchmen' film looked perfect, but it entirely missed the point of both Silk Spectres. Zack Snyder can't do female characters for sh!t, and he's not clever enough to do what George Miller did on 'Fury Road' and get an expert in to advise him.

Not to mention, the 'Watchmen' film felt super-dumbed down. Like, did we really need to have Doctor Manhattan overtly say SPOILER: 'The Comedian was your father?' Subtlety is not something in Snyder's vocabulary.

The lack of the ridonkulous intergalactic doomsquid was awesome, though. Much preferred the film's ending. Made WAAAAAY more sense than the comic's, and actually made Doctor Manhattan's opening scene into a Chekov's Gun, which I thought was super-clever.

[Kirsten]

I don't think it was dumbed down, it was just condensed from a massive sprawling novel in to a single film

[YorkNecromancer]

Silk Spectre's character arc is all about overcoming her teenaged rejection of her mother, and learning to embrace her as a real human being, something she had never been able to do before the realisation that her mother had been protecting her from the truth that her father was a murderously psychopathic rapist. This was obviously helped along by the realisation that she was just as capable of making the same mistakes her mother had in choosing men (Silk Spectre I with The Comedian; Silk Spectre II with the outwardly kind Doctor Manhattan who is - in his own way - more inhuman and cruel than The Comedian could ever be). It's all about how she finally realises she is flawed, her mother is flawed, and that they have a commonality she never realised or appreciated. In a very real way, she rejects her mother as a mother in order to learn to love her as a friend. The relationship with Night Owl II is part of that personal growth, but it's not central to it in the way that it is to him.

In the film? Not so much; her arc just gets reduced to 'I'm going to cheat on my god-husband because Reasons'.

Didn't think much of the film's handling of Silk Spectre at all.

Loved that ending though.

[Kirsten]

I didn't get that feeling from it personally

[YorkNecromancer]

There was a really good article on it when the film came out; I've been trying to find it but no luck. But it argued the point quite well.

[Erik Setzer]

The Watchmen did a MUCH better job of conveying the source material than V For Vendetta did. You can tell how bad V missed the mark by all the kids wearing Guy Fawkes masks while crying out for more government. (For those who didn't real the graphic novel, V was a pure anarchist. Zero government. The book also touched on chaos vs. anarchy.)

I actually enjoyed Man of Steel, because it's silly to try to make complete sense of a comic book movie. It worked well enough and was enjoyable.

I like the way this movie looks more now with this trailer. Showed it to a friend last night who, when I said he should watch it, sighed at first and showed notable lack of enthusiasm. Once it ended, his interest in the movie was thoroughly piqued. The trailer does a nice job of hinting at why Batman would go after Superman to begin with, and what could make him go on a bit of a rampage.

Deadpool... I want to see that trailer in decent quality. Saw a horrible quality camera video of the trailer, and that alone made me want to go buy tickets for it and curse my lack of time machine. You can tell with the trailer alone the movie's definitely going to need that R rating, but I don't think they're going to be going overboard with it. It's nice that they're also completely ignoring the existence of The-Movie-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named.

[Kirsten]

V did a fantastic job of the novel, it was wonderful.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, I recently got the graphic novel at Comicon and read through it. Granted, a lot of details changed because some things translate to film better than others. The uprising of the people is still there, V's push to bring down Fascism, the only real difference is that the novel ends on making it clear that Britain is left to the wolves and an anarchic state at the end, whereas the movie simply seems to cut the leadership out and still leave Britain with a working infrastructure that could host a people's government.

Then the order of things that V blows up is a bit different, as well as characters and what they do. The 1980s post-WWIII setting is updated to a modern post-9/11 setting, and it's known the rest of the world still exists, it's just a bit beaten up and economically destitute after the, "War on Terror," which is only skimmed over as it isn't important to the plot, and merely sets up Britain's fascistic decline. The original novel also skimmed over whether the rest of the world even still exists.

I dunno, the core themes of rising up against oppression, and the failure to contain human freedom/anarchy every time a government tries with a heavy hand are still there. I actually think the movie did the, "Dominoes Fall," sequence better, as you see the Fingermen losing control of the situation very rapidly, piece-by-piece.

[Mr Mystery]

I want to watch it again now!

Sadly, having a bunch of self-important trustafarians co-opting the symbol of your work in order to protest capitalism and globalisation by wearing cheaply made, Chinese repro masks really took the wind out of my enjoyment.

You're not 'V', you're nowhere near 'V', and let's face it - you like your anonymity because it gives you carte blanche to act like total dicks with minimal reprisals. But hey, don't forget, when you do get tracked down (because hey, who knew the government would pay people a lot of money to better at this sort of thing than you), it's time to squeal on all your buddies. That's right. Squeal. Squeal like a pig in a war

[Brakkart]

That's right. Squeal. Squeal like a pig in a war

[Red Dwarf]
"Squeal! Squeal like pigs on their honeymoon"
[/Red Dwarf]

Fixed that for you.

[Mr Mystery]

I was quoting Brasseye, so my quote are more satiricals then you.

[Kirsten]

he doesn't like it, but he's going to have to live with it

[Erik Setzer]

I liked the movie V. Loved it. Have it on my shelf at home. But it's not the same story.

In the movie, you get the idea he's out to take down a corrupt government, just to take down corruption. And he gets shot during a fight.

In the graphic novel, he's out to take down government in any form. Not replace it. Remove it, completely. The whole thing with anarchy - especially the anarchy vs. chaos bit - was probably too much for most theater-goers to really wrap their heads around anyway, even before you consider that such a theme wouldn't be likely to fly these days as we're told more and more that big government is necessary to our very existence. V's demise was also important, as he allowed himself to be shot and didn't even try to stop the man who did it. (And that guy's story was also interesting, making him a rather sympathetic character in his own right.) Evey becoming the new V, proving that you indeed can't kill the idea even if you kill a man, was also important to the story. The movie just leaves with, "Oh, the corruption's gone from the government, the people will surely elect a better form of leadership because that always happens, and now everyone can go back to being happy."

I'd think that maybe there was too much for the movie to cover, but Watchmen pulled it off.

Then again, Watchmen was disliked by a lot of people for having too real of a story. Flawed superheroes? Using a super-weapon to kill millions in order to save billions? Preposterous!

[Path Walker]

Completely missed the point of Rorschach too, the whole film didn't understand any of the finer points of Watchmen and its layers of meaning, just saw the big fight scenes as the important bits.

Also, seeing as Dr Manhattan was an American and used as Americas nuclear deterrent for years, the rest of the world would have seen this as an American attack, this was the Cold War, Russia would have launched nukes at America first chance it got once they were under attack, the point of the alien from another dimension was as an utter outsider the world would unite, when an american threat goes rogue, america would be held to blame

[eldargal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fis-9Zqu2Ro
New trailer, best bit is still Wonder Woman.

[Mr Mystery]

Well it was hardly going to be Ben Affleck now, was it?

[eldargal]

I'm still cautiously optimistic about the movie, going to see it just for Wonder Woman though.

[Mr Mystery]

I still think it's going to be bobbins. Possibly including WW.

I don't know enough about the character to be able to tell if Gal Gadot's performance is any cop.

[Mr Mystery]

Well, now watched the Trailer properly.

This really is looking terrible. Growly Batman, Growly Bruce Wayne. Ben Affleck displaying all the facial emotion of a brick. Big bad looks just like Abomination - not necessarily a compliment.

And Jesse Eisenberg can nick off. Irritating voice, and his lines in the trailer? Why not just have him repeatedly wink at the camera to break the fourth wall.

[eldargal]

I'm not sold on Bruce Wayne, but I liked growly Batman, less ridiculous that whatsisname from the other trilogy which I really didn't like.

I actually really like Eisenbergs Luthor, its a welcome change from 'omnipotent gruff bald guy Luthor' that has been the standard for so long.

I did note a resemblance to Abomination I'll give you that.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

yay wonder woman! don't give a crap about male super heroes. Give me those strong willed alpha females instead.

[eldargal]

yay wonder woman! don't give a crap about male super heroes. Give me those strong willed alpha females instead.

Yup. If she wasn't in it I'd have much less interest, and she steals the trailers without even speaking so yay. People say Gadot is a good actress when given a good script so fingers crossed this movie delivers her that. If nothing else having the DCCU launch Wonder Woman as its biggest success would be great lol.

[Mr Mystery]

This just isn't doing anything for me.

I dare say I'll see it at some point - possibly in the cinema if it gets solid reviews. But, I fear this is another 'coming to a Netflix near you soon' affair.

My suspicion WB are already warming up the Bat-Reboot-Button has not been allayed in the slightest. Spesh as they're following up with the apparent follow-through that is Suicide Squad.

Someone really needs to have a word with their casting department.

[eldargal]

I am much more worried about Suicide Squad to be honest. Like it has some real promise too, and Margot Robbie looks fantastic as HQ and the rest of the women look great but there is bloody Joker with what seems to be a godawful performance from Leto and they have already confirmed HQ is in a love triangle. I mean it could turn out really good, especially if we see HQ drop the Joker in their first appearance because he is an abusive ****bag but there is also so much potential for it to be terrible.

[Mr Mystery]

I've got £10 they render Harley down to just being a tart in hotpants.

They're both looking really quite terrible.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yup. If she wasn't in it I'd have much less interest, and she steals the trailers without even speaking so yay. People say Gadot is a good actress when given a good script so fingers crossed this movie delivers her that. If nothing else having the DCCU launch Wonder Woman as its biggest success would be great lol.

Well i normally find these live action super hero movies to be utterly awful generally with the terrible looking CGI and the strange allergy to bright colours in the costumes - but ill always give wonder woman a chance. Much prefer the animated DC/marvel stuff overall.

[Mr Mystery]

My fear here is that they've forgotten Comic Books are meant to be fun.

Especially DC and Marvel's main fare.

[eldargal]

Well i normally find these live action super hero movies to be utterly awful generally with the terrible looking CGI and the strange allergy to bright colours in the costumes - but ill always give wonder woman a chance. Much prefer the animated DC/marvel stuff overall.

The MCU is pretty good overall I think, fairly fun and nice and bright, but so far DC have seemed to really want to distance itself from the actual comics and be super Grimdark like the Nolan trilogy and while it can work, it isn't a recipe for a Cinematic Universe like they seem to want to build now. You need a mix of levity and srs bzns to keep people interested.


My fear here is that they've forgotten Comic Books are meant to be fun.

Especially DC and Marvel's main fare.

I think Dawn of Justice looks fairly fun personally, but yes I agree. I hated the Nolan Batman trilogy for that reason, it wasn't fun. Marvel do a much better job, even its more serious movies like Captain 'murka Winter Soldier was very fun and had a lot of light moments.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

If we consider Marvel's current offerings (as in those on general release)

You've got your big blockbuster fare - Avengers Assemble, Age of Ultron. Mostly for the committed fans of the series, but still plenty there for the more casual viewer - though there will be inevitable 'huh?' moments.

Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy? Superb family adventure films, which can happily stand alone from the rest and be watched in perfect isolation. Most of all, they're great fun.

Thor, Cap and Iron Man sort of fall in between these two broad categories. You can totally watch them on their own, but for instance Civil War and Iron Man 3 really work best if you've seen Avengers Assemble.

Man of Steel? There's not enough there for family viewing - I can't imagine my Mum and Dad happily sitting through the whole thing just to shut me up. Marvel films? I can see that a possibility.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The marvel movies were actually what I was refering to. I recently decided to give them all a chance and marthoned the whole lot (except ant-man so can't speak on that and guardians of the galaxy which just looked like some awful star wars type crap to me) I thought they were watchable but they were terrible and looked like glorified videogames to me, the cgi hulk was especially cringeworthy. DC ones weren't any better though, trying to be too serious and dark. Barring Wonder Woman, I'll definitely stick with animated stuff in the future. The DC animated movies are pretty great and I loved the old marvel cartoons from the 90's - they should make stuff like that again.

[Charistoph]

It's sad you missed Guardians. If you think its awful star wars type crap, you're missing out. It's good star wars type crap, unlike a few star wars movies with a certain regrettable character I could mention.

But, fun is also defined by the individual. Some don't see standing inside watching a screen all day fun, while others do. So, each their own.

[Path Walker]

The latest trailer seemed to be "Superman and Batman fighting is testing terribly, quick, spoil the last 30 minutes".

Just seems like its going to be a huge mess of ideas thrown in to try and make their flawed idea of how to make their own Avengers Assemble something that works. It won't work because they're hiring guys that don't understand Superman, Superman needs to be Super and a Man (well, a human). He may be a super powerful alien but he's also a man raised by two loving, caring parents who knows right from wrong and kills anyone because he isn't the quthority to judge that.

Its why the last two films didn't work, not enough moments where Superman shows why everyone can't help but flat out love him. Too many either painting him as a flawed outsider who can never belong on Earth but will win the fight anyway and that he'd be willing to kill Zod because it was the tough choice, which doesn't work in a film where we've not really seen him do any fighting against unbeatable odds but refusing to kill before. It just seems that, faced with a tough situation, Superman will just kill the bad guy.

[Erik Setzer]

Yowza.

The only CGI Hulk I can remember looking that terrible was the mid-2000s movie that was absolutely awful. The others have looked fine. Not perfect, sure, but no CGI is perfect.

Guardians of the Galaxy is definitely not Star Wars style. It's hard to describe... it's got action, it's got a lot of laughs, it's got "heart." But it's also not a "dumb" movie, it actually had thought put into the story. (And amazingly, a guy in a giant ship bent on destroying an entire planet manages to do less damage to a city than Superman does to Metropolis in Man of Steel... and that's with that giant ship crashing down on the city.)

If you're not into the others, well, not sure what to say there. You might just not like the kind of movie they are. Fair enough. It's also possible that trying to binge watch them might be a bit of overdose, kind of like how trying to binge watch Star Wars for the first time could have you feeling like they're all awful by the end of it (at which point I might have to send Liam Neeson after you).

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

It's sad you missed Guardians. If you think its awful star wars type crap, you're missing out. It's good star wars type crap, unlike a few star wars movies with a certain regrettable character I could mention.

But, fun is also defined by the individual. Some don't see standing inside watching a screen all day fun, while others do. So, each their own.

haha yes, I think your fun is probably pain for me. fun for me would be seeing those awful humanoid cartoony aliens being absorbed and ripped apart by The Thing ;)

[Mr Mystery]

Guardians of the Galaxy also has genuine heroics in it, something all too often missing.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

well each to their own, it's cool so many seemed to enjoy it and I'm not one to **** on someone elses enjoyment. i'l still give it a miss though, but look on the bright side - it saves you from hearing me moan about it for days on end here.

[Mr Mystery]

Give it a whirl anyway :)

[eldargal]

GotG is my least favourite MCU so far, mostly because of some unnecessary sexist 'humour' and generally Gamora and Nebula not being given much to do at all which was a huge shame. But its a fun sci fi adventure film.

[Mr Mystery]

Biggest shame is the delete scene of Gamora and Nebula having a chat. Really added to their characters.

[Erik Setzer]

GotG is my least favourite MCU so far, mostly because of some unnecessary sexist 'humour' and generally Gamora and Nebula not being given much to do at all which was a huge shame. But its a fun sci fi adventure film.

Been a bit since the last time I watched it, but Nebula survived, right? Hoping we can see more of her down the line, as a proper villain who's behind the troubles rather than reduced to henchman status.

[Mr Mystery]

She did indeed, and we're promised more in the sequel.

[Kirsten]

really looking forward to this

[eldargal]

WW is well served by merchandise for this film too, at least as far as we can tell so far. Her action figure, statue and some other stuff are already known and going to be released at the same time as the chaps stuff, no waiting for months after. Some people are speculating WB has demanded this from licensees because usually they don't bother.

[Brakkart]

5 Prequel comics are now online that help fill in the gap between the end of Man of Steel and the start of Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice. They're pretty good too, well worth a read. I suggest reading them in order too as they loosely follow on from one another.

Can see them here, simply click on the front covers to read each comic. You'll need to click a link at the bottom of the displayed pages to get the rest of them to load too.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/learn-more-about-the-dc-films-universe-by-reading-every-batman-a130699

[Erik Setzer]

That's a better deal than Marvel's recent "Prelude to Civil War," which was basically just a comic version of Iron Man 3 and Captain America 2, condensed to fit into 4 comic issues (so two per movie). If you'd seen the movies, they were pointless. If you hadn't seen the movies, the rush to get through the whole story for each in two issues led to times where they skipped something important and you're left thinking, "Wait, how did we get hear?" or "Why is he asking/doing that?" I'm glad I didn't actually pick up copies of them.

[Erik Setzer]

"Final" trailer is out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cle_rKBpZ28

Love Superman's face at the end when Batman blocks him.

[Brakkart]

Got my ticket booked, luxury seat, dead centre of the screen in glorious 3D for the Thursday midnight showing. Cannot frigging wait!!

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

Distinctly middling reviews, with some poor ones. 37% thus far on Rottentomatoes.

Might be a DVD off a mate job for me.

[Charistoph]

My old roommate wanted to meet up to see it. Knowing him, he'd want iMax, too (we have one within a few miles of us). However, we're too old for opening morning releases (or at least, I am), and I have a required meeting in the time after he gets off work on Friday.

[Mr Mystery]

Definitely looking like a 'I'll wait for Netflix' job (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice/)

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Ok, seen it.
A) Not that bad.
B) Not great either.
Luthor steals the movie, Wonder Woman too.
Some good bits, some meh bits.
My wife (not a big dc reader) and I (a fairly avid one) both enjoyed it enough to make the cinema trip worth it.
A solid 6-7 out of 10 kinda film, and Afleck was nowhere near as bad a batman as you'd think.
I say, go see it.

[eldargal]

^That's what I'm hearing from people I know too, with everyone reporting that Wonder Woman was incredible.

[Mr Mystery]

I've mostly heard that Luthor is intolerably irritating.

But as ever, to each their own.

Glad they didn't arse up WW though. At least, not in this film.

So far my fave WW involved her sitting in a park, watching some kids play sword fighting. 30 seconds later, she's shown a young girl how to best the boys that said she couldn't play.

[energongoodie]

I really enjoyed this film. I really liked Ben Affleck as the bat. I found Luther a little annoying also. Wonder woman was great. Don't listen to the professional critics. Just go and watch it and have fun.

[Erik Setzer]

Saw it with my brother last night. Without spoilers, here's my thoughts:

1. It was trying to fit too much into one movie, and danced around the multi story arcs a lot. That could confuse some people (and has). You have to be really paying attention and filing it all away to keep up. As an example of that, there's a scene that Angry Joe mentions in his spoiler commentary that included a callback to an earlier scene that gave a huge hint something was about to happen, but if you aren't paying attention to the details of that scene and the dialogue from the earlier scene, you could miss it, as he initially did. (That's vague, I know, but, well, spoilers and all. I'll include a hidden comment on it below for those who've watched it.)

2. It's really dark. Not quite Frank Miller levels, but close, especially Batman.

3. Affleck and Irons, IMO, work well as Batman and Alfred. Surprisingly well. It's not just "he didn't suck." He feels believable as Batman, from the use of gadgets to the way he fights.

4. Speaking of fights, the fight scenes were all amazing.

5. The opening is insane, and feels like a scathing indictment of the fight at the end of Man of Steel. Seeing all that destruction from the viewpoint of the people in the middle of it feels like a gut punch, and helps you understand why someone might not be a huge fan of an all-powerful alien flying around.

6. Gal Gadot was good as Wonder Woman, the only complaint I can find around the character isn't with the character. The music during one scene she's fighting in just goes completely different from the rest of the film and feels seriously out of place. But that's it. She might not have had as much screen time as Bats or Supes, but you could tell she was easily their equal in and out of costume.

7. Luthor (Alex, not Lex) did seem a bit over-the-top at times, but if you pay attention to him talking about his past and imagine where he came from, it makes a bit of sense.

I'd give it a solid 7/10... maybe even 8/10. I won't say it's some amazing display of cinematography, but it was really fun, and the story actually made sense overall. Some of it did seem to be DC throwing some big stuff out too early in their movie series, but they've got a lot to work with, and Marvel's shown us you don't have to follow the comics 100% to be good. I know it sounds like I'm listing a lot of negatives, but the negatives really aren't that bad, and it's hard to say much positive without going into spoiler territory.

*Spoilery comment referred to above:
The scene I'm referring to is the Senate hearing with Wally (the guy in the wheelchair). At one point, the senator spots a strange mason jar with a tea bag in it labelled "Granny's Peach Tea." It's a throwback to her earlier conversation with Luthor... he says something like "call it a deterrent" with regards to the Krytonite, and she says something along the lines of, "You can piss in a jar and call it Granny's Peach Tea if you like, doesn't change what it is." So the jar in the hearing scene is a bit of mockery from Luthor right before things go down.

[Charistoph]

I agree so much with the above, I just had to quote it, as it covers much of my perspective on it.


1. It was trying to fit too much into one movie, and danced around the multi story arcs a lot. That could confuse some people (and has). You have to be really paying attention and filing it all away to keep up. As an example of that, there's a scene that Angry Joe mentions in his spoiler commentary that included a callback to an earlier scene that gave a huge hint something was about to happen, but if you aren't paying attention to the details of that scene and the dialogue from the earlier scene, you could miss it, as he initially did.

Agreed. In a way, it was a lot like Spiderman 3, just trying to do too much over all. Most of the transitions were jarring and would often leave you confused for a good period of time after it was resolved.

I do like the subtle nods to the storylines over all like the section you referenced, but a certain "dream" really threw things out of kilter and left you with a WTF.


2. It's really dark. Not quite Frank Miller levels, but close, especially Batman.

It wasn't too bad, unless you are referencing the over all feel. It didn't feel environmentally dark like the Tim Burton films, but then, it was a lot more serious dark than the Tim Burton films, too. Not quite Gotham levels, but close.


3. Affleck and Irons, IMO, work well as Batman and Alfred. Surprisingly well. It's not just "he didn't suck." He feels believable as Batman, from the use of gadgets to the way he fights.

Agreed. It surprised me, too.


4. Speaking of fights, the fight scenes were all amazing.

Also agreed. But hey, at least it wasn't just a super-fast like most of Man of Steel so we couldn't appreciate it.


5. The opening is insane, and feels like a scathing indictment of the fight at the end of Man of Steel. Seeing all that destruction from the viewpoint of the people in the middle of it feels like a gut punch, and helps you understand why someone might not be a huge fan of an all-powerful alien flying around.

When looked at establishing this perspective, it makes sense, but a certain reference mentioned by Affleck was confusing just like numerous other references made throughout the movie.


6. Gal Gadot was good as Wonder Woman, the only complaint I can find around the character isn't with the character. The music during one scene she's fighting in just goes completely different from the rest of the film and feels seriously out of place. But that's it. She might not have had as much screen time as Bats or Supes, but you could tell she was easily their equal in and out of costume.

Agreed. I do wish there was much more development with her, but that wasn't the focus of the movie.

It will be good to see her in her own movie. She shows a great of potential. Let's hope she can get the time and treatment she deserves (both actress and character). Wonder Woman is a potentially deep character, and there is a lot they can do with her.


7. Luthor (Alex, not Lex) did seem a bit over-the-top at times, but if you pay attention to him talking about his past and imagine where he came from, it makes a bit of sense.

It does, but in the end he just seems like he's a rich Joker clone in the end with certain issues that is reminiscent of a certain TV show. That's actually really sad. I really prefer the treatment Bruce Timm's crew gave Luthor in both the S:AS, JL, JLU, and Young Justice. He was crazy, but cold and calculating, not the nervous tic-ridden wretch we see in this film.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Just saw this yesterday. The main thing everyone in my group said after leaving the theater was, "why are critics sh*tting all over this?"

Don't get me wrong, it's not a masterpiece or the deep-thinking movie that Nolan Batman was constantly trying to be. However, Affleck's Batman may actually be my favourite one so far, a man who's been fighting for two decades, and is clearly getting tired of, "pulling up weeds." When you see him doing his thing from other characters' point-of-view, he is genuinely terrifying and actually uses fear as a weapon, something Bale Batman never really did. When it does come to the big throw-down, he does it in typical Batman style; prepare like it's the damn apocalypse then prepare some more. He fights and takes hits like a more human character, which is kinda amusing at points.

There's a few moments that get a chuckle, but I won't mention them here. Jeremy Irons and Affleck work well together, and Cavill is a good Superman who is presented more as an all-powerful being trying to do things right than an actual messiah. Gal Gadot plays a good role, though understated until the end of the movie. Then she kicks a**. I'm looking forward to WW in 2017. Eisenberg as Luthor is...divisive. He's alright, though he leans more towards the Joker than Luthor IMO, but that's a dialogue thing more than anything, and a different interpretation of the character.

I do think Affleck's Batman steals the show a bit, though. He's old, and this is clearly set after a couple of Robins have been lost, one way or another, and some big things are hinted at having taken place in the two decades he's been Batman. He kills now, and apparently has done for long enough that it no longer causes any hesitation. The people of Gotham, even the ones he saves and the police force itself, are terrified of him.

I'm interested to see where it goes. I think the problem is that it relies a lot on established comic storylines. There's nods to the Red Hood and Jason Todd's storyline, as well as hinting at possibly following the Injustice storyline in the future. If you're unfamiliar with those, then the setups for them simply won't make any sense and just seem bizarre.

The intro showing the big fight in Man of Steel from Wayne's point of view does establish why he would consider him a threat to be eliminated. Lex plays puppet-master a bit more than one would expect.

Overall, there aren't many surprises or Shyamalan twists in it. However, I'm actually looking forward to where they go from here. For one, I'm wondering if there's actually any credence to the 'Leto Joker = Tortured Jason Todd' theory.