View Full Version : GW Cost Cutting, Store Hours and More Changes to GW North America
Brass Scorpion
03-08-2010, 09:33 AM
There's a lot of stuff flying around right now about upcoming changes to GW North America store operations. In the interest of stemming a possible tide of misconceptions I decided to share the bit of information shown below. I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of GW operations in my area and all of this information comes from information being shared by GW. None of this is secret and all of it is imminent, so you'll be seeing these changes within days or weeks in some of your local GW North America stores.
As might be expected since the departure of Ernie Baker and the installment of Tom Kirby as head of GW US, more changes are in the works besides those announced already like the HQ move. Supposedly some positive and fun things are on the horizon, though details have not been revealed as yet. However, more cost cuts are being made too. As of one week from now many GW US stores will have their operating hours cut to 35 hours per week. If anyone out there has confirmation of further changes, please list them below.
For example, one of the local GW shops in Maryland is going to these hours in about a week:
Mon., Tues.: closed (no change from current)
Wed., Thurs., Fri.: 1:00 PM to 8:00 PM
Saturday: noon to 8:00 PM
Sunday: noon to 6:00 PM (no change from current)
This represents a cut of 8 operating hours from the current schedule. There is also a forthcoming change to one person per shop for stores that are able to cut their hours short enough to make it feasible. Closing in the middle of the day for 45 minutes for lunch when only one person is running a GW shop is something I've already seen done at times and it is already being done in some shops around the world, so that may also become a common new reality.
Some of you may be asking why certain stores are cutting their hours to 35 per week while others are not. It is my understanding that this is largely a function of lease agreements with the shopping centers in which the GW stores are located. If the landlord and the lease are flexible enough to allow for the cut in hours then it will happen while shopping centers that require their tenants to operate on longer hours will maintain the hours required of them.
Update, 3/9:
As others have reported on various hobby forums, single employees that run stores solo will be referred to as store "operators". I'll add that managers will still be managers where needed. Store profitability will affect operator bonuses, so those stores that do very well have the potential to pay off well for their operators. As always, if you like your local shop and staff, support your local shop.
UltramarineFan
03-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Woah, the guys in the US don't do any work. I live in the UK and my local's hours are;
Mon-10am-6pm
Tue-10am-6pm
Wed-10am-10pm
Thu-10am-6pm
Fri-10am-6pm
Sat-10am-6pm
Sun-11am-7pm
rbryce
03-08-2010, 02:12 PM
its over here too. my nearest closes on a tuesday for the whole day, and does a few half days. its only one guy bless him. its a lot of work for one guy to do every thing
HsojVvad
03-08-2010, 04:07 PM
I am cynicle here because of cost cuttings. I can't freaking the freaking greed of the corporations. They don't even pay the employees much money as it is, it is either minimum wage or just barley above it. Now to fire people and have one person running the store is just cheapness on GW part.
I can see this happening now, espcially where GW stores are not in the main shopping malls but strip malls or out of the way stores. I can see either robberies, or swarmings in these stores. GW is starting to put their employees at risk now just to save a few bucks, and this is sickening. Only one person running a store? WTF! I just hope nobody gets hurt over this.
Aldramelech
03-08-2010, 04:13 PM
Goodbye
Denzark
03-08-2010, 04:40 PM
I know that GW Torquay runs some very funny hours, I used to collect thier cash......
Aldramelech enters stage left, wearing a spotted handkerchief around his nose, and waving a revolver best described as a hand-cannon.
Aldramelech: Give me all the money, you f****** c*** suckers!
.
.
.
.
.
(Sorry I like the Usual Suspects too much...)
tjkopena
03-08-2010, 04:44 PM
Their weekday schedules are so strange to me. I would think it'd make more sense to open later and run later so that people can fit in a game after work. But, I guess if they opened much later they wouldn't be able to catch kids right after school? And game space isn't their primary function?
Bigred
03-08-2010, 05:04 PM
The big thing this tells me is the smarter FLGS locations (especially ones with floorspace) can just take the entire hobby community and put it in their pockets. Hours that limited and a single employee really preclude any real gaming or large clubs being centered on GW stores. (especially for working folks).
Aldramelech
03-09-2010, 01:32 AM
Goodbye
Herald of Nurgle
03-09-2010, 04:25 AM
Twice a week for two years, you'd think they'd learn..........
As they say here in sunny Northampton... never trust a dwarf.
rbryce
03-09-2010, 05:07 AM
lol, are you sure its not to trust the crazy old woman takin a dump in the middle of abingtonn street? oh, no wait, she was hairy enough for a dwarf lol.
harrybuttwhisker
03-09-2010, 05:34 AM
Whats less funny is the fact that ordinary redshirts have had there pay frozen for the last two years, the year before that was below inflation. The only pay rises they received were to stay above the UK's minimum wage.
The pay freezes were supposed to be for the whole company, however the stores were 'rebanded' resulting in virtually all the store managers getting a healthy rise.
Not to mention the bonus the staff were promised if the company made more profit than projected wasn't paid despite making far more money than they anticipated.
This is why I would never work for GW as a staffer they just screw there employees
Brass Scorpion
03-09-2010, 10:46 AM
It should be interesting seeing one person on a busy Saturday try to simultaneously teach Academy classes, answer the phone, greet every walk-in customer and assist them in finding and making the purchase that's right for them, answer rules questions and hobby questions from customers already in the store, and run the cash register for every purchase. Some Saturdays that's currently a challenge with two people, with only one it should require a Herculean effort and the ability to be in multiple places within the store simultaneously.
gcsmith
03-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Gw torquay isnt that bad, Closed MOndays and tuesdays, but hey i go to school. The only problem is 4x4 tables. I miss the old 6x4 in shrewsbury :p 12-8 isnt bad at all, same hours as UK. Main problem is shareholders. Surely they make enough profit to become Ltd instead of plc. Maybe we should all buy the shares and control the company. And id be a staffer at 18, a half price army ty
Lord Azaghul
03-09-2010, 11:14 AM
Wow. This type of thing makes me really appericate my FLGS.
They are not a GW store, but carry a very large amount of product for the two major games, and a bit for lotr.
They started in comics, but I think the store does a great deal of business with magic/card game players, but there are also very good at keeping the GW scene alive and well, weeking game nights, monthly/quarterly tourniments. And best off all a very large game room with plenty of tables, and terran.
They are open most every day, except holidays. The store closes at 8pm, but the game room stays open until midnight - its great, I love the place.
Melissia
03-09-2010, 11:50 AM
Whats less funny is the fact that ordinary redshirts have had there pay frozen for the last two years, the year before that was below inflation. The only pay rises they received were to stay above the UK's minimum wage.
The pay freezes were supposed to be for the whole company, however the stores were 'rebanded' resulting in virtually all the store managers getting a healthy rise.
Not to mention the bonus the staff were promised if the company made more profit than projected wasn't paid despite making far more money than they anticipated.
This is why I would never work for GW as a staffer they just screw there employees
This is standard business practice these days.
Lord Azaghul
03-09-2010, 11:52 AM
This is standard business practice these days.
Have to agree here. GW or otherwise. All corporations are self serving in the end. Very rarely do you find/work for a company that values their employees.
UltramarineFan
03-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Jeez, the more I hear about the situation in the US the worse it gets. As far as I can tell your GWs kinda suck.
My local(UK) is one of the smaller ones in the area and is not very big at all(verging on small tbh) but it still has 2 staff on average and usually 3-4 on the weekend.
I feel bad for you.
Lerra
03-09-2010, 02:04 PM
And game space isn't their primary function?
The only GW stores I've seen in the US have been very small with no gaming or painting space. At most there is a 4x4 space to demonstrate the game to new people. It's basically a glorified GW kiosk.
Masterowen45
03-09-2010, 02:06 PM
it has already hit the uk, we had a 3 man store which has become a 1 man store! the part timers were moved to other stores around the country! we also have terrible hours such as gaming night only on for 3 hours! and with a limited amount of tables is a little pointless. The store is also shut 2 days a week!
Brass Scorpion
03-09-2010, 02:10 PM
This will undoubtedly affect the hobby community in the stores that are being cut. How much we shall have to wait and see.
Aldramelech
03-09-2010, 02:18 PM
Goodbye
Akkon Sek
03-09-2010, 02:20 PM
While GW's business model has mystified me somewhat for quite some time now, the premise of single employee kiosk-esque stores is baffling.
This would _seem_ to indicate GW will rely on LGS to host events and provide gaming space, and yet they seem to make it increasingly difficult for those same independent stores to manage GW product at a respectable price point because they are pushing their internet sales. I guess they expect players to purchase online from them (relatively draconian internet sales policy if not GW), and then take it to the independent LGS to play the product?
My local store owner is constantly upset by how difficult it is for him to acquire product, how irregular it arrives, and then how he has to charge more than GW-direct because of his cost. I suppose it certainly could be smoke-and-mirrors to gouge... somehow I doubt it.
I'm not GW bashing, and it affects me not at all as I don't need a play venue. Just a bit confused about the business model.
The West Coast Knight
03-09-2010, 02:37 PM
The other big problem with the GW stores is the fact that a few months back got a letter from corparate to push the Veteran players out of the stores so unless your a newb your not really welcome unless its to just buy stuff.
I stopped into my local GW this weekend which is now a one man store and the person was setting up a tournament.
I just wanted to pick up the new Battle Missions book and was asked if could wait 30 minutes for him to finish organizing the tourny.
I said no sell this to me now our I will just go to the FLGS down the road.
billytwix
03-09-2010, 02:57 PM
personally i think it could work. adjusting hours to the core groups, cutting down on overhead, decreasing floor space for product, possibly having a better control over inventory. i really can't see mass looting and robbery at a smaller kiosk or micro store in a strip mall where all the product would be positioned behind the counter. i'm sure a new store model would also include a new store layout.
lets see what happens and go from there. i also agree w big red on local stores being able to capitalize on their gaming areas and hording customers to themselves. i think the kiosk store would serve as an excellent feeder to the local stores in the area by having that more centralized position in a mall area. not all new players stroll down into the hobby dungeons of yore, but alot of folks with mom's money go to the mall. where core gamers are less likely to tread.
i live quite a distance from an actual GW store. so when i stroll in its pretty much a place i want to leave immediately. as a person who has no interest in the current model i'd like to see a change: perhaps for the better?
ps i'm the most professional analyst of all GW business decisions since i make all of them and i buy all your figs back from the garbage when they die. i call for all the price hikes and i enjoy the stewing hatred and nashing of teeth when changes are made. i muddle the rules to cause you to feel like a loser when you get out gamed.
Just a light stab at all the trolls out there/JK :)
Brass Scorpion
03-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Supposedly store operators will have a ton of freedom that managers currently do not have to run the store and events in the store as they see fit. This is one of the few positive changes I've heard from local GW employees. Hopefully this will offset some of the negative impact of the staff and hours reduction.
HsojVvad
03-09-2010, 03:37 PM
So here is a question, if the stores do badly because of the one person running the store, who is to blame? Why do I have the feeling it will be the one person who is running the store that will be fired because he is not making enough sales.
The West Coast Knight
03-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Supposedly store operators will have a ton of freedom that managers currently do not have to run the store and events in the store as they see fit. This is one of the few positive changes I've heard from local GW employees. Hopefully this will offset some of the negative impact of the staff and hours reduction.
Only problem is they will not be able to keep running large cool events and handle the ultimate device in the store being the cash register.
It will be up to members of the community to help the stores run events in house and its why GW needs to bring back the Grey Knight and Outrider programs to have dedicated volunteers to help do these things.
Brass Scorpion
03-09-2010, 04:27 PM
A friend and I were already speculating last weekend that they will become more dependent on the community to run store events.
Lord Azaghul
03-09-2010, 05:03 PM
A friend and I were already speculating last weekend that they will become more dependent on the community to run store events.
That's kind of how it works in my neck of the woods already. We don't have any actual GW stores, so usually the tourneys are hosted by the FLGS, who seem to keep more then one empolyee btw!
Even 'Ard Boyz: run by the FLGS. So I guess I don't really see this effecting me at all.
However I really don't see the rational behind the new business model, because those employees don't make enough money to really save the company that much money. Perhaps the GW stores are not doing as in much sales since the 'free' shipping is still in effect, but since they've been going their shipping model for about 9 months now it much be work. It actually encouraged me to order something I would have otherwise never purchased. So not all of GW Corp. ideas are bad!
Razorx1970
03-09-2010, 05:13 PM
Yeah more corporations adding to the problem of unemployment, by firing more people to cut costs, and making matters here in the US worse. Good job GW!
There are enough people already out of work.
Also I have not a single GW store anywhere near me, so no big loss for me personally, but I feel bad for those who will be loosing jobs over it.
They tried hard to CONTROL the market in early 2000s, so if they were smart they'd quit being control freaks, and leave the Internet and brick and mortar shops handle the selling of thier products, because I bet you anything, that that's exactly where the bulk of thier money comes from anyway. The GW stores seam like a stupid idea to me anyway, because they're only in large areas only, and no one in the right mind pays FULL MSRP for any of this stuff anymore. So I'd be hard pressed to spend my money at a GW store, for anymore than a brush, some paint, and maybe a single figure every so often, the rest I buy online or off eBay at as much as 30% off, plus free shipping. If I didn't, I couldn't afford the hobby, and at present, I only buy this stuff mostly as income tax time, and the rest of the year maybe a single bit or two.
ZachAttack
03-09-2010, 05:33 PM
This costs cutting sucks, and has hit me especially hard up in Ontario. The local GW store in Oshawa is closing it's doors on March 15, as well the FLGS in St. Catharine's , where I go to school, is hardly stocking GW product anymore.
Rift Knight
03-09-2010, 11:37 PM
I've never understood GW's model here in the states. Most of us here in the U.S. play multiple game systems, and game types. Gamesworkshops stores only carry GW products and at no discount over the LGS's. Why would we, given the choice, go to a GW store instead of a FLGS. The only possible reason I can think of is maybe is for the hobby aspect of the games, but with the "new" one man stores they have shot that possibility in the foot. :confused: Can anyone explain this to me?
entendre_entendre
03-09-2010, 11:46 PM
You may need to be under the effects of some hallucinogenics Rift Knight.
Majorcrash
03-10-2010, 08:47 AM
Well I can confirm in the Houston Texas area, where there are i believe 8 GW store, Thier hours are changing to 12- 7pm, weds thru sunday. Will only have one operator. All current employees are being laid off, and must reapply for hire. The stores here can barely run events now with two persons, and take care of their other responsibilites. Plus the shortened hours is going to see little if no gaming during the week. I have watch GW run its store since the ninties and have never been able to figure out what idiot comes up with these ideas. Just cause this model works in Australia or the UK doen noth necessarily mean it will be successful here. Also as GW has mangaged to drive off most of the independents. Players are going to have to organize elsewhere to play. In the short term this may save them money, but longer term this is just another nail being driven home. For awhile i have been curious to the new release schedule, and though i cant complain about the great model they are putting out. They are working at a rate that in past years is 4 times faster. Can this mean that GW is trying to increase their profitability to attract a buyer, Hasbro, matel, etc ?
Brass Scorpion
03-10-2010, 10:09 AM
I have watch GW run its store since the ninties and have never been able to figure out what idiot comes up with these ideas. Just cause this model works in Australia or the UK doen noth necessarily mean it will be successful here. Also as GW has mangaged to drive off most of the independents. Players are going to have to organize elsewhere to play. In the short term this may save them money, but longer term this is just another nail being driven home.You are not alone. I think a lot of North American customers have had these thoughts over the years and now more than ever.
BlackVise
03-10-2010, 10:27 AM
The GW store closest to me in Olney, MD, has the reduced hours and 1 staffer in place for awhile. I don't go there except to pick up something the FLGS may not have in stock. I personally think that GW should limit/reduce the number of US stores, and make any newer US stores going forward, more bunkeresque rather than have a few smaller stores.
Fizyx
03-10-2010, 10:43 PM
I leave the internets for a few days and this pops up? man....
This probably will nto impact me as much since I will soon be moving somewhere with no Hobby Centers nearby, but I feel bad for my friends here who will have to put up with this. @BrassScorpion, is this happening to the Annapolis store? I don't know how they will survive, especially on the weekends, with only one staffer. They have a crap-ton of Academies to teach and I know they just sold a few more... plus the staffers there are phenominal and I wouldn't want to see them cut short by this.
C'est la vie, I guess.
Brass Scorpion
03-10-2010, 11:37 PM
The Annapolis GW store will be on 35 per week starting next Wednesday. For the moment at least I've been reassured that there will still be two employees there, but sadly I wouldn't count on how long that will last.
Regional Manager positions are being eliminated, so I'm wondering how GW will enforce cleanliness and other chain-wide standards in their stores after that. The events calendar and the concept of having events for all three game systems every weekend in the stores is being chucked out as well, so it will be interesting to see how many community members in each store continue or not to show up on weekends. This all will certainly have at least a minor impact on the community building efforts of the past few years. This is getting weirder by the minute.
Commissar Lewis
03-11-2010, 12:27 AM
I've always been mystified by the arcane business practices of GW, but this makes less sense than the architecture of R'lyeh.
So, they are getting rid of store events such as Tanksgiving?
MarneusCalgar
03-11-2010, 05:04 AM
Well, I donīt know about US or UK stores, only the things youīre posting, but I do know how is it going in Spain...
And here we also have a strange situation: about 10 years ago, GW stores were the only places were you could buy Warhammer. The only shops you could do too apart from the official stores were the big malls and toy sellers, but in minor quantity. But these last 10 years, the decay of the GW staffersī personality, according to their selling ways, provoked the appearance of independent retailers and shops, many of them by people who were former GW redshirts or blackshirts years ago.
By the passing of this 10 years, the other points where you could find GW products, stopped selling them because of the little margins, and FLGSīs, that still sell GW as other products, became stronger and treating you not as "Buy buy buy!" boy like in the GW stores, but as a normal person with a common hobby which they can talk about. So GW shops became emptier and they reduced, at least here in Madrid, Spain, their staff from a blackshirt and 2 redshirts to one and one... And it remains so in these years.
Shops became smaller (two of the four we have here in Madrid changed their location to a smaller one) and with less playing tables, if you go there to play with a friend you canīt if theyīre are also showing small kids any game, because they only have now 2 tables for playing.
I do not enter in a GW store from more than a year now, last time I went by was only to buy a Space Marine blister and the redshirt wanted me to buy half the store while I was pretending only to pay my blister. I am 28 y. o. and I find more comfortable going to a FLGS where I can look without buying or being annoyed, they have between 10 and 20 playing tables and you can find lots of other stuffs...
So seems this is the global new strategy of GW. They will finally stay as a internet seller but with small shops worldwide to try to add more childs to the game... But this is an epic fail !!!! Cause they are oriented now to sell, only sell, you canīt play or do any tournament or painting contest... Only buy... This will cause that FLGS will win and that GW hobby will cease being THE HOBBY to be only one more...
Is this really what the buckethead economists from GW want??
Denzark
03-11-2010, 06:32 AM
Maybe this will have one benefit - veterans won't be hassled by redshirts who were barely born when they started killing the Emeror's enemies, asking inane questions - 'What armies do you play etc etc' (answer Squats or Zoats this will throw them off the scent.)
Just shut up and sell me the bleached bone!
On the serious side we do need to work out why this is happening - big warehouse in the states, maybe even a factory, and go internet only - this has to cut costs. I can't see how a staffer is supposed to sell sh*t and introduce the all important 'little timmys' to painting, rules etc, or tapping up the hot MILFs/Soccer Mums to buy buy buy.
What is the down side?
darkangel1066
03-11-2010, 07:03 AM
As a former employee what I understood the situation to be is that these smaller stores are referred to as satellite stores. These stores are primarily cut down versions of bigger stores and the main object is to sell the product and carry out intro games.
These stores do not cater for clubs, but point you in the right direction of your local club or bigger store that have gaming tables and facilities to allow you to do some form of hobby.
Each satellite store has 1 member of staff who works 5 days a week and has to make sure the store is manned on Saturday and Sundays (so if you have a family or girlfriend who want a family life forget it). If the store performs well then they may get the chance to take on a part timer who will be required to work weekends only.
These stores also stock a smaller range of product and also encourage you to use the mail order facilities.
Yes it's certainly a cost cutting process but it's also a way to open shops in smaller towns and spread the name of Games Workshop.
MarneusCalgar
03-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Maybe this lone staffer could clonate himself to do so at the same time hehehe
HsojVvad
03-11-2010, 01:08 PM
What I don't understand, is why are people saying GW would love to get rid of their stores and just have people shop on the interent? How the hell are they going to get new blood? I thought little Timmy walks in the stores sees the nice pretty toys then goes to Mommy and Daddy to ask him to buy it for him.
Without these stores, how is Timmy going to know that they exsist? I don't think it will be word of mouth anymore. There is so much on the internet to be sold, and lots of people don't even know that they exsist, so I don't think word of mouth will keep GW to survie in the future.
Razorx1970
03-11-2010, 01:09 PM
I think GW stores are done here in the US now. Already it's evident that the players who spend the most on thier products don't like the sales practices and being anoyed by the pushy sales staff, and now they cut hours and play space even more. Good luck GW.
IF they even think they can take over the entire mail order biz too, they'll destroy what they have left too of loyal players and customers. I for one will NEVER pay full MSRP for GW products, more so since I haven't had to for 10+ years now due to independant mail order and internet retailers. Lets also not forget that this stuff isn't getting any cheaper. They do throw us a bone every now and again, like they did with the Space Wolves Pack box with extras, and Wolf Guard Terminators, but the rest of the stuff is isnanely priced. Not to mention how crazy costly it would be to make a whole new Blood Angels army from what I saw yesterday.
Do they REALLY need to release 4 new armies worth of miniatures per year? What happened to the $8-$10 single and double figure blisters too? It's been years since we've seen those, now on average a single blister is $15+, some as much as $20+. Plastic was supposed to bring us all lower costing miniatures too, but seams GW was the only one EVER to benefit from that new practice too.
I still enjoy 40k, and thank god I have mostly all of the miniatures I want or need at present.
The more GW drops the ball here in the US, the more we will see people moving to other gaming systems like Warmachine and Hordes, or Flames of War, which dollar for dollar, are far more affordable options for what you get to play a game with. I mean to get a formidible Space Marine force even, one you can compete at a local hoppy shop with you're looking at close to $300, or more, after you count paints, glue, primers, all GW of course. Where as for about $100-$150 you can jump right into Warmachine/Hordes or Flames of War, and use alternative hobby supplies as well (vallejo/Army Painter, etc).
I certainly spent more with Privateer Press this income tax refund time than I did GW stuff this year too, because dollar for dollar I get more for my money with Warmachine or Hordes.
I can spend $35 for Tactical units, and now I need another $35 for a Rhino, or $55 for a Land Raider to get them around, or $50 for just 5 Terminators, and another $55 for a Land Raider to make the most of it. 1 HQ, 2 Troops alone runs roughly about $90+tax (2X tactical boxes and $15 SM commander box), less online at discounted prices, but that's not nearly enough to really play any fun games with, plus that didn't account for transports. Anymore, I'm yet to see any games played with no armor and no transports either. Tankhammer is what it has become. $35-$50+ for each armored vehicle is what you're looking at.
However, I can blow $35 for a Warmachine model that's not only somewhat more detailed, but to boot, the games don't take 5-6 hours to get to turn 5, and I'm getting ALOT more metal in one model, than anything GW has to offer. IF it was a GW model, a single metal heavy Warjack would no doubt run about $75 in GW prices, and $30 minimum for ANY other light Warjack. I also don't need 30-100+ models to get in a compelling and fun game with Warmachine/Hordes, altho you can go that high if you so desire it. But with 40k, even a 1500 point game can encompass ALOT of models, which = ALOT of money.
GW has I believe, priced them selves out of the market that they created, and it's getting worse by the day it seams. They evidently have brought in new revenue streams too with the 40k video games, the black library novels and now even a 40k animated movie, so why are they hammering us so hard, during one of the worst economic messes we will prob see in our lifetime? Greed?
Razorx1970
03-11-2010, 01:23 PM
What I don't understand, is why are people saying GW would love to get rid of their stores and just have people shop on the interent? How the hell are they going to get new blood? I thought little Timmy walks in the stores sees the nice pretty toys then goes to Mommy and Daddy to ask him to buy it for him.
Without these stores, how is Timmy going to know that they exsist? I don't think it will be word of mouth anymore. There is so much on the internet to be sold, and lots of people don't even know that they exsist, so I don't think word of mouth will keep GW to survie in the future.
I've never seen a single GW store. It's not like McDonalds, where you can't go 10 miles with out seeing 1-3 of them. They only seam to have stores in the largest metropolitan areas, and where I am, near Pittsburgh, PA is large too, but we don't have one. So little Timmy hasn't been missing much in many regions here in the US.
I've relied on the Internet and old and established local shops for my fix, but for the most part, the Internet for purchases.
GW was stupid about it, they spent far too much time saturating some areas with 4-5 stores, which weren't needed, instead of spreading out to other regions where there were none. I grew up outside of Chicago, but I left in about 1985, and I was always mad that in that region alone, there's 11 GW stores to be found catering to Chicago suburbs, and not a single shop here near Pittsburgh, outside of a 800mile drive to Philly. Actually ONE GW shop in PA alone, and Philly is it. There's 12 in Illinois alone, 11 of which are in close proximity (30miles or less) to each other. Not a single one in West Virgina or Ohio either, both of which I'm very close to, as I'm in the tri-state region of SW PA.
So I could care less if every GW store went away, they've done nothing for me for over 20 years now, I'd only feel bad for the employees, and how GW is contributing to the unemployment situation here in the US, instead of helping it out. Spreading out into regions where they could be useful would be the wiser choice. As opposed to over saturating areas as they have.
11 GW stores within a 30 mile radius, isn't that extremely stupid?
MarneusCalgar
03-11-2010, 03:05 PM
Boys, here in Madrid we have only 4 GW stores for 6 million people who live here... If you count independent stores, only 9 stores to support all the hobbyists that live here. Half the painting Spanish Teams that always win on the european GDīs, and almost more than 1000 enthusiastic hobby players.
Believe me, itīs not only a saxon countriesīs problem.
entendre_entendre
03-11-2010, 10:55 PM
What GW's doing:
HsojVvad
03-12-2010, 08:21 AM
Yes that is extremely stupid. 11 stores in a 11 mile raidus? Wow is there that many GW players that they need that many stores?
I can't speak for anyone else, but if there are no stores to go into, then GW will be dead for me. I don't really buy much through the internet, I like to see the product in my hands. There might be a few things I get from ebay or the interent but most of my shopping is done at the brick and mortar stores. If I can't see with my hands, I don't get it. Since all the FLGS are closed down in my area, to me, it seems like the hobby is dieing down in general. But that could just be the area I am in.
Majorcrash
03-12-2010, 10:42 AM
In the Houston area there are at least 12 store within 30 min drive of each other, some closer. I know in some parts that considered a distance. But here we measure how far place are in time as with traffic and such distanse doesnt mean much. At one time about 6 years ago there were somewhere in the area of 30 FLGS int he greater houston area. Now there are 3!!!!!!!!! Hmmmm part of a grand design??? No i know its not these guys cant pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. ( for all you yankees)
HsojVvad
03-12-2010, 02:49 PM
In the Houston area there are at least 12 store within 30 min drive of each other, some closer. I know in some parts that considered a distance. But here we measure how far place are in time as with traffic and such distanse doesnt mean much. At one time about 6 years ago there were somewhere in the area of 30 FLGS int he greater houston area. Now there are 3!!!!!!!!! Hmmmm part of a grand design??? No i know its not these guys cant pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. ( for all you yankees)
30 FLGS you say? Wow, here in Canada that seems like over kill. I guess because the USA has such a huge population compared to Canada that is why you have that many stores for such a small area.
But now, is this an indication,that our hobby is dieing? I don't ever think it will go away, but it's really shrinking with all the FLGS disaperaing. All 3 or 4 FLGS where I live are all gone. Some of the ones in Toronto, are gone as well.
If the interent is the only way of selling these products, then I don't see the hobby being as big as it once was.
The West Coast Knight
03-14-2010, 08:53 AM
OK I do have to laugh a bit at some of the comments.
Like "if this is what the stores are doing GW is dead to me".
I mean come on the stores are not closing and if anything they are going to be around longer because the number 1 expense they have is staffing and that will be removed now.
This is only for store front shops not mall stores and not bunkers.
Oh I like this one " GW is opening its self up to loose a ton of money to theft now"
Come on a staffer full time is worth around 35 k - 40k lets say with benefits you think the store is going to loose that much to theft.
I also like the " well if GW would offer a discount I would buy more stuff there"
Its a good reason why GW stores are losing profit because they are having to compete against discounters in brick and mortar and on line shops.
I find it retarded that people who shop on ebay would complain that the store is no good to play in now with their discount models.
If you want the GW store there for you then support it.
Oh and Brass yes the Regional managers are done but GW is posting new District managers based out of Memphis 6 of them from what I hear its roughly half of what they have now saving around 1.2 million in wages.
Sorry for the rant
HsojVvad
03-14-2010, 12:03 PM
@ West Grey Knight, have you ever thought, that when people say GW stores are dead to them if they do this, is because they don't want to support a company that costs people jobs? Why support a store when they just lay off people. Maybe these people don't like the new business model and don't want to support it at all. Some people will still support GW buy buying their products with other means, but will not support the local store anymore.
As to theft I am not shure what you are talking about. I don't think any GW person red shirt makes even close to $20 000 a year, so your figures are way off. $35-40 000 a year? Who makes this kind of money in GW? Are you saying the redshirt will be stealing the product? I think it will be more of the case, the store is located out of site, and if someone did thier homework, they can walk in and steal the little bit of money in the till. Yes it is not that much, but it is a working hazard for the lone employee. That in its self will put up the insurance premiums if it keeps getting robbed. It might not have happend yet, but with this economy and everyone being desperate for money, all it takes is one person to say, "hey a store out of the way, should be an easy target".
GW is not loosing money to brick and morter stores. If they are, why are alot of the LFGS closing down then? Remember GW is getting their money that is being sold from these LFGS. Either way, GW is making it's money.
I agree with you abou the Ebay people though. If you want to play at a store, you should be supporting that store then.
nojinx
03-16-2010, 03:02 PM
Generally speaking, businesses are closing due to a weakened economy in which luxury items, like games and toys, are panned over in favor of necessities.
In the SF Bay Area, we have five GW stores. Two of them are a five minute drive from each other (Alamo and San Ramon). I understand the business model GW has been working with and I think it makes sense in certain locations. Their physical locations provide exposure to those who have never been into the game. The under-18 crowd is a big draw. Those who have been in the hobby for years will often already have playing venues they regularly use and more economical vendors.
I think the odd frequency of GW stores is namely based on affluence. Suburbs of high income areas and affluent neighborhoods where the young (under 18) have a fair amount of spending money is the ideal location. Older customers can and will travel to you, so put your shops where the biggest populations of wealthy kids exist, ensuring the best market possible for brick-and-mortar stores.
GW stores will struggle to attract the older players, and the younger once they figure out they are spending 30% more than people who order from on-line hobby shops.
The other crippling aspect of GW stores has been mentioned: they only carry GW. In the Bay Area, I know of only one FLGS that has closed down since the 90s, that was Neutral Ground in Moutain View (which closed in 2003, I think). Many of them thrive and perform well, some of those because they offer large play areas in their stores (50% or more of floor space). GameKastle, EndGame and others host events regularly, have leagues and - most importantly - are not limited to carrying only GW stock.
It may be of interest to note that I do see hobby shops and game stores dropping GW lines while continuing to carry others (like FoW and Privateer). At one of the larger stores (a huge hobby shop that carries all sorts of lines which I have patronized since buying my first model rocket in 1981) I asked why they were dropping GW after all these years, but still carrying all the other TTWGs. Response: not enough profit in it.
Every company that stays afloat after their first year or two inevitably comes upon a time when they have to downsize or lay off employees. If you are going to avoid doing business with businesses which have laid off people, you aren't going to do business.
The West Coast Knight
03-17-2010, 08:29 AM
Great post Nojinx
According to the stats there are 39 new Independent shops this month alone across North America kind of sounds like the opposite of everyone closing there doors.
Here in the Vancouver BC area where I am we just had 2 open 1 of which is huge with more tables then a GW.
I find the previous comment about not wanting to support a company that has fired people ridiculous.
If you feel like that then you will have a real hard time finding a place to eat or cloths to wear.
Brass Scorpion
03-17-2010, 09:14 AM
The more friends and acquaintances I speak with at GW the worse this gets. There are people all over GW North America losing their jobs and not just in retail or at the HQ. Many jobs based out of various sites are being moved to Memphis and for those people for whom moving is not an option they will be out of a job along with the people who've had their jobs eliminated. This means that GW North America is losing many of its best, most talented long-term employees in training, retail, customer service, trade sales, management, human resources and more.
My closest GW store is cutting its hours starting today.
Melissia
03-17-2010, 09:40 AM
There's a difference between boycotting a company for layoffs...
... and boycotting a company for laying off workers, heaping more work on the workers that are left, and then giving a big bonus and pay raise to the managers and upper level staff.
Just saying, nojinx. A very noticeable difference.
nojinx
03-17-2010, 11:18 AM
While I do agree with your point, I would argue that "heaping more work on the workers that are left" is a dynamic of any company going through layoffs. That is a basic priciple of economics: if you have a set of labor hours required to meet your customers' needs in a certain time period, and you reduce the pool of labor from which you can draw to supply those hours, you are going "heap" plenty on your remaining staff - or you are going to fail to meet your customers needs (and usually both). I would expect GWs case to involve both, and that seems to be the case given shorter store hours and reduced staff count.
I find it counter-productive to give out raises to staff when others are being laid off to save costs, and hard to believe GW would agree to give pay raises at this time to categorical groups of their employees. Not being a GW insider, the true state of things is not known to me. I can only speculate, so I like to stick with seeing the pattern in those things I do know or can conclude logically. It may be that a certain category of employee has been consistently panned over for raises and is now being compensated. I am not sure if the timing shows any business acumen.
Note that if GW declared bankruptcy, accepted a bail-out package from the federal government and then turned around and gave Gav Thorpe or Alessandro or whomever some wacky bonus packages after a profitable year, I'd shake my head and sign as I have done upon hearing such stories over the last decade. But I don't see that. I see a company trying to make one of their divisions more profitable. It is too bad that division is based on the flawed concept of brick-and-mortar GW stores.
We know GW is profitable as a company. But the retail location division may be hemorrhaging money and GW is going to try to make it profitable or drop it altogether. This may be their last stab at it. Franchising does not seem their style.
I guess it comes down to how much confidence you have that GWs state is one and not the other of your two descriptors. Alternatively, like most people on the planet, it may just come down to what you want to believe.
Melissia
03-17-2010, 11:28 AM
It was said in this thread that managers and etc are getting raises.
It's a pretty standard procedure in capitalist society for businesses to give raises to managers and upper level staff regardless of how well the company is doing (no, I'm not saying I oppose capitalism, I just recognize that humans are flawed creatures and therefor follow any ideal in a flawed manner)
DarkLink
03-17-2010, 11:50 AM
It's a pretty standard procedure in capitalist society for businesses to give raises to managers and upper level staff regardless of how well the company is doing (no, I'm not saying I oppose capitalism, I just recognize that humans are flawed creatures and therefor follow any ideal in a flawed manner)
That's kinda standard procedure for anyone in any society who has the position and authority to give themselves raises, capitalism or not. At least in capitalism, poor business practices like that can eventually cause companies to go under, to be replaced by someone hopefully more competent.
Though that does have a bit of an unfortunate tendency to cause massive economic problems when entire business sectors go under due to such management. And so the government regulates certain aspects of the business sector in and attempt to avoid this, but that causes its own problems, and so on and so forth in a death spiral. So I guess we're all doomed :rolleyes:.
All that said, GW gets to decide their own business practices. If you don't like it, then you have a right to spend your money elsewhere.
Commissar Lewis
03-17-2010, 02:09 PM
Wow, it's looking like this would a good time for that hiatus I'm planning... Though it's not entirely GW's fault; it's mostly my gaming group being boring as all hell.
nojinx
03-17-2010, 03:14 PM
It was said in this thread that managers and etc are getting raises.
Well, then it must be true. ;)
It's a pretty standard procedure in capitalist society for businesses to give raises to managers and upper level staff regardless of how well the company is doing (no, I'm not saying I oppose capitalism, I just recognize that humans are flawed creatures and therefor follow any ideal in a flawed manner)
That's kinda standard procedure for anyone in any society who has the position and authority to give themselves raises, capitalism or not. At least in capitalism, poor business practices like that can eventually cause companies to go under, to be replaced by someone hopefully more competent.
Indeed. Most companies are careful about their expenses, the largest of which for most of us is HR. While they may not have an issue with passing profits to the top rather than the bottom, a successful company will ensure their expenses stay under their income by a good amount (whatever that industry's particular margin is). My own employer - relatively small at 60+ employees - chose not to give out raises last year because of slow sales. Adjusting salaries is a regular process that happens at the same time every year and is directly correlated to the profits and volume of this company over the last year.
There is a very common type of business that does do regular salary increases for their staff. These are the government organizations, many of which have legislation-based salary schedules that kick in like Daylight Savings Time. If you are a teacher in California, you can look at the schedule and know what your base salary will be in twenty years, what the increases will involve, what additional monies will be made if you earn X more units or a Masters, information for COLA adjustment index, etc.
Private groups, on the other hand, generally have fewer mandates. The primary one is the federal (or other) minimum wage. Many people who work in the food service industry earn minimum wage plus tips regardless of length of time of employment, for example. Many industries have unionized workforces who negotiate salaries with industry leaders. In these situations, your salary is tied to everyone else unionized in your field in a particular area. A union construction company could not lower an employees salary beyond the contract, though (to Melissia's point) they are not kept from inflating the salaries of management or handing out big bonuses.
Though that does have a bit of an unfortunate tendency to cause massive economic problems when entire business sectors go under due to such management. And so the government regulates certain aspects of the business sector in and attempt to avoid this, but that causes its own problems, and so on and so forth in a death spiral. So I guess we're all doomed :rolleyes:.
I can't be doomed if embarked in a transport! :D
All that said, GW gets to decide their own business practices. If you don't like it, then you have a right to spend your money elsewhere.
I hear good things about Privateer Press.
Lord Azaghul
03-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Not that is really applies to GW...but the US isn't really a capitolist society any more...and we haven't been since FDR changed things is the 1940's (the NEW DEAL). Not to start a policial war here but Capitolism doesn't work on its own anyway (by 'on its own' I mean unresticted), the 1930's stock market crash proved that the first time, and the 2009 crash proved governments shouldn't run the system either!! The Invisible Hand only works to a certain extent!
Back on topic:
What GW seem to be doing sounds like standard corporate practices, remember that corporates are designed to serve those at the top, not the employees, not the customers, but the people at the top.
Melissia
03-17-2010, 04:26 PM
Lord Azaghul: Indeed, that's precisely what I said before, standard business practice.
My economics teachers (I have had several) argued that we pretty much have never been a purely capitalist society to begin with. Because that would be rather hellish to most people, IE, "I kidnapped your daughter and sold her as a sex slave", which in a purely capitalist society wouldn't necessarilly be illegal because outlawing someone from selling certain kinds of goods goes against the tenets of capitalism.
In fact, no "pure" form of any economic ideal has been done in recorded history to my knowledge. Nor would it be a good idea.
nojinx
03-17-2010, 07:15 PM
In fact, no "pure" form of any economic ideal has been done in recorded history to my knowledge. Nor would it be a good idea.
Yes and yes. Brilliant. I think the same applies to political ideals.
Marshal2Crusaders
03-17-2010, 07:49 PM
Lord Azaghul: Indeed, that's precisely what I said before, standard business practice.
My economics teachers (I have had several) argued that we pretty much have never been a purely capitalist society to begin with. Because that would be rather hellish to most people, IE, "I kidnapped your daughter and sold her as a sex slave", which in a purely capitalist society wouldn't necessarilly be illegal because outlawing someone from selling certain kinds of goods goes against the tenets of capitalism.
In fact, no "pure" form of any economic ideal has been done in recorded history to my knowledge. Nor would it be a good idea.
So in a way, capitalism is way more prevalent in the Eastern Bloc and Mexico where **** like that happens frequently??? YAY FOR DEMOCRACY!!!!
Melissia
03-17-2010, 08:59 PM
In my experience (living in Texas) Mexico IS more capitalist than the USA, yes. You can buy drugs, cops, government officials, people, weapons, etc. Just name your price and be quiet about it.
Much harder to do so in the US... many Mexican immigrants actually get in trouble trying to pay off the police force in Texas because it's just standard practice in Mexico. "Oh, the cop's trying to pull me over, lemme get some twenties out." Doesn't quite work as well here.
Rift Knight
03-17-2010, 09:10 PM
I guess Lord Acton was right " Power tend to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely"
The West Coast Knight
03-18-2010, 09:04 AM
Choo Choo here comes the off topic train.
Mellisa I don't recall hearing anything about managers getting raises actually all managers are being terminated and the jobs relocated to Memphis they may apply for the positions there if they like.
Thats what is happening.
I don't think we need to worry about this being a last ditch effort to make the retail arm profitable but again I am speaking from Canadian point of view where from what I have heard the entire division is profitable.
The most this will effect us the gaming public is the amount of time we can spend hanging out in the stores which from what I mentioned earlier is not what GW wants us to do anyways.
The stores have become a social club for gamers and if we are not buying product while we are there its not a good business model.
So the model has to change.
I for one am expanding my gaming looking into Gaming groups and playing more games at home with my boys.
Melissia
03-18-2010, 05:58 PM
I have heard plenty of rumors of that. Their Canada retail division seems to be more intelligently run based off of what my friends up there say.
The West Coast Knight
03-20-2010, 02:24 PM
Well Melissa it was very well run but then it became GW North America under Ernie Baker and everyone with all the good business sense lost their jobs up here
Not very smart.
HsojVvad
03-20-2010, 08:47 PM
Well Melissa it was very well run but then it became GW North America under Ernie Baker and everyone with all the good business sense lost their jobs up here
Not very smart.
So that is why everyone has changed when I came into the closet GW store last time? For over 2 years it would be the same people in the store and now all of a sudden it's GW NA instead of Canada and the people have changed. Makes sence now.
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