Tyranids Shadows in the Warp Vs. Eldar Runes of Witnessing

[chapterhousestudios]

Ran into this today...

Eldar Runes of Witnessing says:

"Farseer rolls 3D6 and discards the highest roll when taking a Psychic test. You must use the lowest two rolls"

Tyranid Shadow in the Warp:
Any enemy psyker that takes a Pychic test must take the test on 3D6 and will suffer Perils of the Warp attack on the roll of any double 1s or 6s"

Now in the Eldar FAQ I believe Runes of Witnessing vs Shadows in the Warp are cancelled out, he argues that since this was previoud Nid Codex, they wouldnt follow that rule.

My opponent (and friend I guess.. :P) says nope... He will still roll 3D6 and if he rolls double 1s or 6s hell take a perils, but he still drops the highest dice. That and he says even if he rolls 12 or over, he only takes a perils on double 6s or 1s (per Shadows in the Warp).

I suggested he roll 4D6, drop the highest, and take a perils on only double 1s and 6s (makes the best compromise in my opinion.).

I also said maybe they should just cancel each other out.

It seems so over-powerful that the eldar runes give such invulnerability to the Eldar player, they basically ignore Nids Shadows in the Warp and still get all the advantages (pretty much) from Runes of Witnessing.

What do you guys suggest we do?

I think either a cancel each other out works or he would roll 4D6 leadership test and drop the highest single dice and only suffering perils on doubel 1s or 6s.

I know we will run into this at BolsCon 2010, so maybe JWolf can think hard on this one so we know what to expect?

Nick

[Fellend]

Canceling each other out seems like the easiest solution and since it was faqed before it would it probably still goes.

[karandras]

The previous FAQ stated that they cancel each other out. If that is under the Eldar FAQ, it would still stand.

If it was under the now obsolete last codex Tyranid FAQ, I can see where there is room for dispute.

In that case, per the RAW, the Eldar player would roll 3d6 as both rules state, but then Runes of Witnessing allow him to remove the highest dice. If the remaining lowest two dice result in a double, he would suffer perils of the warp (assuming his Ghosthelm doesn't save).

This gives the Eldar a good defence against the Shadows in the Warp. This fits their background and is hardly overpowed or game breaking. There is relatively little that the Eldar have going for them as their codex continues to age, but at least they have this!

[BuFFo]

In that case, per the RAW, the Eldar player would roll 3d6 as both rules state, but then Runes of Witnessing allow him to remove the highest dice. If the remaining lowest two dice result in a double, he would suffer perils of the warp (assuming his Ghosthelm doesn't save).

If a FAQ can not resolve this, I would go with this.

This seems to be them most reasonable way of resolving this issue as both players benefit from their abilities at the same time.

A nice compromise.

[chapterhousestudios]

I dont really see any benefit to the Tyranid player with the Roll 3D6, discard highest but apply Perils to the 3D6.

Reason is, Shadows of the Warp SPECIFICALLY says that perils are only occuring on double 1s or 6s. The strength and main purpose of SitW is to make the Leadership test occur on 3D6 for the power going off.

I think the designers put the only on double 1s and 6s in there, so that SotW isnt too powerful, if it was on 12s or higher it would be killing psykers left and right with perils.

Instead I think its main function is to inhibit the powers of pyskers from working at all.

3D6 and discarding the highest isnt haveing any effect at all on the eldar psyker. They may as well not be facing an opponents inhibiting power, they still pretty much get full benefit from the runes with no negatives from the SitW.

Cancelling makes since because of the FAQ.

I also think that rolling an additional dice for each power (take into effect the Runes power and SitW power) in effect and discarding the 1 highest (using the Runes power) and only taking perils on double 1s on 12s on those 3 dice kept (using the SitW power) is a genuine compromise.

Nick

[HsojVvad]

I would say the Eldar rolls 3d and see what happened. If no Perils of the Warp, then the Eldar discards the highest die and continues on. If a Perils of the Warp attack, then he what ever damgae is given, and then continues on, discarding the highest roll and conitinue on playing.

If this is not acceptable, then they both cancel each other out and the Eldar players rolls 2d as anyone else. would. this way he dosn't get the benifit and the Tyranid player dosn't get any benifit. Only fair.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Personally, I don't see a problem with an abilty you pay out of the spiky ears for cancelling out a free ability on pretty much all the Synapse Creatures in a Nid list. However, Might as well just cancel the two abilities out to avoid hassle.

[chapterhousestudios]

Except, while you guys get to choose to pay for the ability, it is factored into the cost for all of us nid players and we have no option, you can not really you that as any sort of argument for or against.

My friend was saying "your power is good against all the other armies, be happy about that, it just does not work on Eldar", does not really matter either.

I dont think that because someone pays for an ability, it should cancel out another races ability. Thats not a good argument.

[Dogowar]

I ran into the same problem playing against my brother. I went through the same debate.

I tried to combine he two items and did the roll 3 dice, check for perils, remove the highest.

I think I will go with the cancel out until it gets FAQed (again). I am already paying for the skill in my points, he has to decide to take the runes or be at the mercy of an unedited Shadows of the Warp.

Great question.

I wonder how it will be FAQed for Adepticon?

[Dogowar]

I asked the question, then went and read the answer. :)

The inatFAQ rules that the two powers cancel each other out.

[HsojVvad]

I asked the question, then went and read the answer. :)

The inatFAQ rules that the two powers cancel each other out.

Yes the INAT says they cancel each other out.

[DarkLink]

I agree with Karandras' solution. This is really just a situation where there isn't actually a conflict, there only appears to be one.

[rle68]

I dont really see any benefit to the Tyranid player with the Roll 3D6, discard highest but apply Perils to the 3D6.

Reason is, Shadows of the Warp SPECIFICALLY says that perils are only occuring on double 1s or 6s. The strength and main purpose of SitW is to make the Leadership test occur on 3D6 for the power going off.

I think the designers put the only on double 1s and 6s in there, so that SotW isnt too powerful, if it was on 12s or higher it would be killing psykers left and right with perils.

Instead I think its main function is to inhibit the powers of pyskers from working at all.

3D6 and discarding the highest isnt haveing any effect at all on the eldar psyker. They may as well not be facing an opponents inhibiting power, they still pretty much get full benefit from the runes with no negatives from the SitW.

Cancelling makes since because of the FAQ.

I also think that rolling an additional dice for each power (take into effect the Runes power and SitW power) in effect and discarding the 1 highest (using the Runes power) and only taking perils on double 1s on 12s on those 3 dice kept (using the SitW power) is a genuine compromise.

Nick

unless i misread the eldar dex only the double 6's would cause a conflict the double 1's would still stand anyways so its a one part of a 2 part ability that has to be solved

[rle68]

I asked the question, then went and read the answer. :)

The inatFAQ rules that the two powers cancel each other out.

Good for adepticon but useless for the rest of the world. Since they like making up their own rules to suit them anyways

[chapterhousestudios]

Luckily the Eldar FAQ says it cancels each other out, I dont think there is any written reason to disregard the rule just because a new codex came out (unless specifically stated somewhere).

[HsojVvad]

Luckily the Eldar FAQ says it cancels each other out, I dont think there is any written reason to disregard the rule just because a new codex came out (unless specifically stated somewhere).

True, so if it's in the Eldar FAQ, we have to go by that, unless the Tyranids FAQ says differently when ever it comes out.