Battle Missions: Kill Teams

[Akkon Sek]

So as not to tread on any intellectual property rules, I won't rewrite here the Kill Team section in question. But I am curious to know how others have interpreted (if indeed, interpretation is even required) the shooting phase of models. Different individual attacks, yadda yadda.

e.g. Heavy4 vs four bad guys = one shot @ each, or two @ two, as desired?

Was chatting with a bud about this, and while my initial response was something akin to "you're out yer damn mind", I re-read and gods help me... that sort of makes sense as it is currently written.

C'mon smart folks. Help a geezer out here.

[Sir Biscuit]

"When a model shoots or fights in an assault it may split its attacks up amongst any eligible targets as desired."

So yes, you may "split" the shots of any weapon that can fire more than one.

It's required for rapid fire weapons to work effectively, actually. Otherwise, all the shots from a multi-shot weapon would have to hit the same model, as every model is counted as a separate unit in kill team.

[Nabterayl]

"When a model shoots or fights in an assault it may split its attacks up amongst any eligible targets as desired."

So yes, you may "split" the shots of any weapon that can fire more than one.

I think this is exactly right.

[Akkon Sek]

Ok.

Works for me. Just goes against every part of my years-long tortuous 40K conditioning that I can pick (and shoot at) separate targets, and then assault someone completely different.

Thanks guys. Appreciate you.

-Dryw

[DarkLink]

That's cool. I like the sound of kill teams.

[Sir Biscuit]

It's quite a lot of fun. It's basically a much better form of 40k in 40 min; that also REALLY inspires homebrew adjustments and creations. At least for me. :D

[hisdudeness]

From my reading it is pretty much Nercomunda with 40k units. Can't wait to get a city fight 'kill team' game going.

[Kieranator K82]

I've played a 6 player Kill Team and it was fun. I didn't have the shooting problem because I ran cheese - 5 TH/SS Termies in Kill Team. :D

I was eliminated second. Just after some Tzeentch Terminators.

KILL TEAM FTW!!!!

[Spirit Leech]

Do you guys have any thoughts on units you might take or strategies you might use for kill squad ?
I'm thinking I might buy up storm troopers and use them for this, that or use gants and a doom of malan'tai.

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[slxiii]

oh jeez, come on people. Kill Team is supposed to be fun and fluffy... I'd be a bit upset at my opponent if they brought TH/SS termies or the doom....
At least that's my opinion. It seems like it would be more fun to have a more narrative game than a "what can I spam to win?" game. If you want to play that, theres regular 40k

[Madness]

Wholeheartedly agree, some people ought to let their opponent make an army for them.

[Spirit Leech]

I was joking about the doom, just doesn't seem like it would be right bringing that thing out.

[gcsmith]

I love kill team, funny How I won a game before a single shooting phase. 5 BT bikers, 2 with power weapons and 1 with flammer, and give the 3 with special items the scout USR, sorry but 1st turn flame and assult was too much, he gave up before i rolled any dice to shoot. Lol I was only taking it due to fluffy bike force but it does well.

[Gotthammer]

and give the 3 with special items the scout USR,

You can't give the same USR more than once, and only one per dude.

[harrybuttwhisker]

Doom of malantai with eternal warrior plus a few deathspitter armed tyranid warriors has definate possibilities

[SuperZuk]

Kill team is loads of fun. It definitely brings something fresh back into the game.

As the IG player that I am... platoons worked effectively (orders can make things very interesting in a small point game... especially FRSRF.)

I also did find sentinels to work well iin these matches with their range and movement.

[Fellend]

x amount of marines against a death leaper seems lika fluffy and fun battle, no instant death weapons allowed =)

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[energongoodie]

Just had an idea on another thread.

To make kill teams even more fun, use genestealer blips as makers for all figures until their spotted by the enemy.

What you think?

Brilliant idea.

[Sir Biscuit]

Just had an idea on another thread.

To make kill teams even more fun, use genestealer blips as makers for all figures until their spotted by the enemy.

What you think?

YES. God I love Kill Team!

[Akkon Sek]

Just had an idea on another thread.

To make kill teams even more fun, use genestealer blips as makers for all figures until their spotted by the enemy.

What you think?

Nice idea. Gives me a reason to dust off Space Hulk.

[Akkon Sek]

Ok... this may be self-evident to others considering the agreement on "split fire", but not to me unfortunately.

What if the squad has an either/or option ala Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters (Heavy3 or Assault2)? As they are all "individuals", I assume this means each model gets to choose... based on other variables such as movement, etc of course.

I'm really warming up to these rules. A lot.

[Sir Biscuit]

Again, each model is it's own unit. Regardless of how they were purchased (in a squad) they are separate on the tabletop. Each model can fire based on how it alone moved- other model's moves will not affect it. :)

[Akkon Sek]

Again, each model is it's own unit. Regardless of how they were purchased (in a squad) they are separate on the tabletop. Each model can fire based on how it alone moved- other model's moves will not affect it. :)

I hear ya. I know, I know... I'm being annoyingly anal. I just want to hear someone else confirm what I'm thinking. :)

Thanks man.

[Nabterayl]

Along the lines of models being individual units, I'd be curious to hear how people feel like handling the following situations:

Acts of Faith - do models test against a unit size of one, or a unit size of however many models belong to the "parent" squad? Does the resulting Act of Faith affect the entire squad, or just the one-model unit attempting the Act?
Mob Rule! - does this affect orks in a Kill Team scenario?
Exarch Powers - do these affect the entire squad, or just the exarch?

My own thoughts are tentatively:

Models test against the size of their squad, notwithstanding that in Kill Team the squad may contain many units. Alternatively, models test using their unmodified Leadership, as per Adepta Sororitas Independent Characters. In either case, a successful Act affects only the model attempting the Test of Faith.
Yes, orks are affected by the Mob Rule! in a Kill Team scenario, since the rule applies to "mobs" of orks rather than "units" - and having high-morale orks is in keeping with the "small band of elite warriors" spirit of Kill Team.
Yes, exarch powers affect the entire squad, per the wording of the exarch power rules, even though in Kill Team a squad consists of multiple single-model units - and having an exarch lead a band of aspect warriors that do not benefit from his leadership seems contrary to the spirit of Kill Team.

Anybody else have thoughts?

[Aldramelech]

Goodbye

[Groat]

I'm kind of wondering how well Thousand Sons would work for this - they're one of the few units that would actually be allowed to bring a psycher. I'm trying to remember the point costs while at work, but they're roughly 65+spell cost + low twenties per Marine in the group. I figure you'd be able to bring the sorcerer + 5 marines (maybe only 4), but you have a small ap3 squad + caster. I'm going to try it out at my local hobby store I think - I've got a set of 'em ready to finish gluing arms onto and painting.

[Nabterayl]

How about IG orders? One man or the whole squad?
Well, RAW-wise, it'd be single men, since orders apply to "units." I think my inclination would be to go with the RAW in this case, since the small-scale spirit of Kill Team seems to me to be more that commanders would be speaking to individual men rather than whole squads which are, potentially, spread out all across the board.

[Culven]

Anybody else have thoughts?
As I understand the rules, each unit will consist of multiple models when making unit selections. However, as soon as they hit the table, each model is a separate unit. This makes some pieces of wargear and special rule useless. In my mind, claiming that all models which were part of the same unit would still benefit from unit-applied rules is like a Space Marine player using Combat Squads and claiming that the Sergeant's Ld can be used for both because they were part of the same squad.

[Nabterayl]

As I understand the rules, each unit will consist of multiple models when making unit selections. However, as soon as they hit the table, each model is a separate unit. This makes some pieces of wargear and special rule useless. In my mind, claiming that all models which were part of the same unit would still benefit from unit-applied rules is like a Space Marine player using Combat Squads and claiming that the Sergeant's Ld can be used for both because they were part of the same squad.
I hear what you're saying, but it seems like certain RAW applications break what are supposed to be core parts of certain models. For instance, sisters of battle would be essentially unable to use half their acts of faith. That strikes me as a little weird. The other examples - guard orders, Mob Rule!, exarch powers - I could see applying to single models.

[Sir Biscuit]

One of the things you have to be willing to do for kill team to work is to really work with your opponent. It's very easy in this game to create abuse lists that are really no fun.

For sisters, I think a fair compromise would be to always count the squad size as 7. That way you can use all their powers. (Abiet, for one unit at a time, and for the very few faith points you get to bring to Kill Team!)

[Akkon Sek]

One of the things you have to be willing to do for kill team to work is to really work with your opponent. It's very easy in this game to create abuse lists that are really no fun.

Completely agreed.

I am lucky in that respect as I was turned off to LGS/tournament play long ago and only participate in "home league" games with friends now. I honestly cannot fathom attempting such an open-ended rule set such as the new Kill Team in any other environment as it is so ripe for abuse.

That said, the open-ended aspect of these new rules in a relaxed setting is exactly what I find so appealing.

As always, my opinion only.

[Nabterayl]

Do people have any thoughts about how to handle transports? Technically they should only be able to transport one model at a time, right? I'd be curious to know from people who have had a chance to try these rules out ... does that seem balanced/fun in your experience? Or is it better to let transports carry multiple units for kill team purposes?

[Sir Biscuit]

Let the transport carry multiple models. One guy should hardly take it up, and it's not game breaking.

I'm going to make a Kill Team FAQ by going through all the codices and rulebook and try to answer all the questions that seem to be popping up. Look for the first draft of that in the rules forum this weekend.

Until then keep posting here to make that job easier. :)

[faete]

What I would do here is allow models that were originally part of a single unit, and that are in normal unit coherency to still be able to use transports, special rules, etc as a group. The drawback would be that they would all have to remain in coherency for moves, attack/charge the same target for that turn.

[Akkon Sek]

I'm going to make a Kill Team FAQ by going through all the codices and rulebook and try to answer all the questions that seem to be popping up. Look for the first draft of that in the rules forum this weekend.

Kudos. A solid idea.

I feel positive your time on such will be greatly appreciated.

[entendre_entendre]

I feel a little silly for asking, but could you take 1 model from a unit only?
E.g.: a solo terminator?

Basically, do you have to buy a min-sized squad of guys in order to use them, or can you pick and choose as long as you pay the points? What about weapons you get access to when you have a certain number of guys? Say if I have only 5 marines, could I take a Heavy Bolter?

It might be fun to have a solo termie (counting by himself as my 0-1 Elites) leading my CSM with some (2-3) raptors (my 0-1 Fast Attack). I suppose I could just ask my opponent, but where's the fun in that? ;)

[Nabterayl]

I feel a little silly for asking, but could you take 1 model from a unit only?
E.g.: a solo terminator?

Basically, do you have to buy a min-sized squad of guys in order to use them, or can you pick and choose as long as you pay the points? What about weapons you get access to when you have a certain number of guys? Say if I have only 5 marines, could I take a Heavy Bolter?

It might be fun to have a solo termie (counting by himself as my 0-1 Elites) leading my CSM with some (2-3) raptors (my 0-1 Fast Attack). I suppose I could just ask my opponent, but where's the fun in that? ;)
Barring opponent's consent, you still have to obey the codex. So you couldn't take just one Chaos terminator, for instance (as the minimum squad size in the codex is 3), and you couldn't take a heavy bolter in a five-man tactical squad of codex marines (as the codex only makes heavy bolters available at 10 men).

Here's a new question of my own for folks: what if all a player has left on the table are vehicles when it's time to start taking Leadership tests? Does the player test at Ld10? Does he automatically pass the test? Does he automatically fail the test? I don't think this one has a RAW answer, but my sense of fairness says vehicles should count as Ld10 if they're the only models a player has left on the table.

[rbryce]

use the common leadership for the drivers, e.g, a rhino in th WH dex is driven by either sisters of battle, or storm troopers, so if it was either theyd be LD 8, just look in the crew entry, and apply the leadership of those guys

[rbryce]

on another note, is this version any different from the old one rules wise? is it worth buying the book for? basically, i got the old kill team rules lyin about some where, and if i was to buy battle missions, itd just be for kill team.