Outflank by Hive commander special rule

[Jolyas]

hi, i got a simple question

can a unit of tyranid warrriors whit a join tyranid prime outflank using the hive commander special rule?

[gannam]

hi, i got a simple question

can a unit of tyranid warrriors whit a join tyranid prime outflank usin the hive commander special rule?

Yes. Its a troop unit.

[Mycroft Holmes]

hi, i got a simple question

can a unit of tyranid warrriors whit a join tyranid prime outflank using the hive commander special rule?

No. The attached Independent Character is a separate non troop unit.

[karandras]

Yet another issue with the Tyranid book...

The Hive Commander rules specifically states "a single unit of troops" in its wording, so I would say you cannot attach an IC and gain the benefit, as the IC is another unit. The answer is no!!!

[gannam]

No. The attached Independent Character is a separate non troop unit.

What part of the rules says its a seperate. Its a unit, and it scores. Its a troop unit. No matter what IC is with it.

[Jolyas]

here when i´m lost, becouse do not give sout or infiltrate, just
" a single unit of troop may outflank"

[AbusePuppy]

Unlike Lictors or other units with special deployment rules, the case is pretty clear. The ability to outflank is not innate- is is granted to the unit by the Hive Tyrant. When you join the Prime to the squad, he is treated as a member of that squad. The Tyrant gives the squad the ability to outflank. Ergo, the Prime, if joined to the squad (which is still "a single unit of troops," remember) before the game, can outflank with them.

Edit: It would different if you joined the Prime to some Genestealers or a unit with Scout, but neither of those apply here.

[karandras]

Abusepuppy is clearly attempting to abuse the rules. The Hive Commander rule very explicitly states "A SINGLE UNIT OF TROOPS" ver batem.

A Tyranid Prime is not purchased from the Troops section, it is purchased from the HQ section. Any IC can be attached to any unit to include a unit of troops, but that does not make the IC a troop. They are just joined to the unit and are free to leave at anytime. They are treated as a seperate unit in assault because they are still an IC.

If the Hive Commander rule read " a single unit of troops and any attached independent characters" or "a single unit of troops including attached independent characters", then you could obviosly attach a Prime. Since the rule clearly does not, anyone who says otherwise is either not reading the rulles correctly or intentionally cheating.

[HsojVvad]

Abusepuppy is clearly attempting to abuse the rules. The Hive Commander rule very explicitly states "A SINGLE UNIT OF TROOPS" ver batem.

A Tyranid Prime is not purchased from the Troops section, it is purchased from the HQ section. Any IC can be attached to any unit to include a unit of troops, but that does not make the IC a troop. They are just joined to the unit and are free to leave at anytime. They are treated as a seperate unit in assault because they are still an IC.

If the Hive Commander rule read " a single unit of troops and any attached independent characters" or "a single unit of troops including attached independent characters", then you could obviosly attach a Prime. Since the rule clearly does not, anyone who says otherwise is either not reading the rulles correctly or intentionally cheating.

How does the rules work for dedicated transports then? I thought it was only for troops that it was chosen for, but I keep hearing people put IC in them because they are joined as a squad or troops. So what would be the difference then?

[karandras]

How does the rules work for dedicated transports then? I thought it was only for troops that it was chosen for, but I keep hearing people put IC in them because they are joined as a squad or troops. So what would be the difference then?

Dedicated Transports have absolutely no bearing on this topic. This thread is about the Hive Commander rule. Read the rules sections for independent characters and universal special rules in the BRB and your confusion should subside.

This is slightly off topic but since you asked... If a unit that has the Scout USR purchases a dedicated transport, they bestow the ability to the transport, which would allow them to outflank in the transport. But look what happens when an IC without Scout USR joins the unit. They lose the ability. This has been covered ad nausem on other threads. Search for anything with Shrike in the title and you'll find it.

[Mycroft Holmes]

If a unit that has the Scout USR purchases a dedicated transport, they bestow the ability to the transport, which would allow them to outflank in the transport. But look what happens when an IC without Scout USR joins the unit. They lose the ability. This has been covered ad nausem on other threads. Search for anything with Shrike in the title and you'll find it.

Exactly. It's the same use case; just because it's SM and Shrike doesn't make it any different (rules-wise) from a Prime attached to an Outflanking Troop unit.