Sticking With 8th

[Katharon]

Hello there folks. I've noticed how a lot of people are having differing reactions to the result of the End Times and the birth of a new and strange fractal world that we'll soon be seeing in the near future. After thinking on it for a long time, I've decided to accept that the change has come, maybe take part in it if it's decent, but over all? I'm sticking with 8th.

Let's get things straight: 8th Edition Fantasy wasn't perfect. There are several 'house rules' that I and others in my gaming area have talked out for fixing them. Admittedly they make for a rather short list. It had solid rules however, and that is the firm foundation upon which we plan to further conduct ourselves.

So, not happy with the new edition? That's OK, you *can* stick with the old. Obviously if you're a competitive player that plays in any WHF tournaments you'll be left with the new edition with few if's and's or but's -- but then that's on you, isn't it?

Have fun and keep gaming!

[40kGamer]

Hello there folks. I've noticed how a lot of people are having differing reactions to the result of the End Times and the birth of a new and strange fractal world that we'll soon be seeing in the near future. After thinking on it for a long time, I've decided to accept that the change has come, maybe take part in it if it's decent, but over all? I'm sticking with 8th.

Let's get things straight: 8th Edition Fantasy wasn't perfect. There are several 'house rules' that I and others in my gaming area have talked out for fixing them. Admittedly they make for a rather short list. It had solid rules however, and that is the firm foundation upon which we plan to further conduct ourselves.

So, not happy with the new edition? That's OK, you *can* stick with the old. Obviously if you're a competitive player that plays in any WHF tournaments you'll be left with the new edition with few if's and's or but's -- but then that's on you, isn't it?

Have fun and keep gaming!

That is a completely workable option. 8th wasn't perfect but we all know 9th will have serious issues that have to be resolved after the fact as well. My local community is currently in the mist of a huge debate over how to deal with the fabulous disaster that is 7th edition 40k. We have people who want to go all the way back to 5th, some who want to houserule/restrict the living crap out of everything in 7th and sadly a large portion of the community that have thrown up their arms in frustration and moved to actually playable game systems. heck, we still play a slightly modified version of 2nd edition epic as that was the high water mark of fun mixed with relative balance in that game system.

So as long as you aren't going to events just stick with the old. If enough people do stick with the old we may even see events that run under the old rules.

[Reldane]

this has been the same here with talk about different editions of fantasy. some want to play 6th, some 7ths others 8th. some want to continue to use their new units, some want to use the older army books. and this doesn't even cover pick up games at FLGS.

9th doesn't really worry me, there will be change most certainly but that's not always a bad thing. if it is fully supported and well written then I am sure I will have no problems with it.

what does worry me is how usable the old armies will be. Or will the rules changes pretty much spell the end for anything not of the combined new armies. which units will stay? there's no point having 4 different Elvish Great weapon troops, will the combined elf book basically be the high elf book? will Ogres and Dwarfs be field-able as their own army, or will they be specialist troops for other factions?

will Brettonia and Beastmen simply cease to exist as army types?

[Erik Setzer]

See, people say this "You can just keep playing 8th!," but it's not really a viable solution. It's like saying "You can keep playing Specialist Games!" Or "You can keep playing Battletech/Chronopia/etc!" If a game is dead and no longer supported, people will move on.

Not just my opinion... The discussion popped up on a (GW-focused) gaming group, and that was the first thing said. People just don't want to be living in the past, where it's harder to find fresh new opponents.

[40kGamer]

See, people say this "You can just keep playing 8th!," but it's not really a viable solution. It's like saying "You can keep playing Specialist Games!" Or "You can keep playing Battletech/Chronopia/etc!" If a game is dead and no longer supported, people will move on.

Not just my opinion... The discussion popped up on a (GW-focused) gaming group, and that was the first thing said. People just don't want to be living in the past, where it's harder to find fresh new opponents.


It's not optimal as you definitely lose players when games are unsupported. However it is possible to keep a small tight community thriving. In all honesty it's getting really difficult to keep a community going with 40k locally. The game has bled too many long time players that aren't coming back anytime soon. For WFB, it has shrank to such a small local following that even if they completely reboot it I don't expect anything dramatic. It's pretty rough when you struggle to keep a game viable in a city of 2 million+.

[Erik Setzer]

It's not optimal as you definitely lose players when games are unsupported. However it is possible to keep a small tight community thriving. In all honesty it's getting really difficult to keep a community going with 40k locally. The game has bled too many long time players that aren't coming back anytime soon. For WFB, it has shrank to such a small local following that even if they completely reboot it I don't expect anything dramatic. It's pretty rough when you struggle to keep a game viable in a city of 2 million+.

Well, that's kind of what you expect when the games get both too expensive and too over-the-top with bombastic new armies blowing everyone else away... I hear a lot of local guys moving on, and many of the ones who stay only do so because they have full armies already and don't plan on spending more money if they can help it. Well, that's 40K... WFB seems to have petered off, with even the End Times stuff failing to keep any kind of momentum going, and I hardly ever see it any more. A lot of people are waiting to see what happens with 9th, but it sounds like some folks might just not bother coming back to WFB.

[silashand]

WFB seems to have petered off, with even the End Times stuff failing to keep any kind of momentum going, and I hardly ever see it any more [snip] ...it sounds like some folks might just not bother coming back to WFB.

Except for one location I haven't seen a WFB game being played in months. I don't know if 9th will bring anyone back into the fold or not. I know I have put everything on hold and likely won't buy it for a while after release, preferring to wait and see. I have never liked 8th edition so if 9th doesn't spark people into playing again I won't bother. Also, unless they address the idiotic pricing they have for their WFB stuff then I won't buy anything new no matter how cool it may be ($60+ for 10 witch elves --- yeah, non-starter there. The same box has been sitting on the shelf at my LGS *SINCE IT WAS RELEASED*. I dunno GW are smoking, but it's probably illegal in most places).

[Lord Manton]

I agree with Kataphron on this one. There is no reason at all stopping you playing 8th. What "support" does it need? It's definitely a bit sucky that Brets have an out of date book, but otherwise all the armies are relatively up to date and can play nicely together. So basically all your 8th(current) players will hypothetically still be around to play 8th with you. You could hold an 8th tournament. And all the models are available.
The bonus is that we can now come to own the game as the community will be the only thing keeping it alive. This means that there is much more freedom in terms of miniatures and things like that. Fan-made army books can be formulated and allowed in certain areas. You don't need GW to give you the OK to play with your toys.
I think my group will be sticking with 8th for quite some time. A couple of guys just started out and we managed to lure a couple back in just recently. The shift to 9th will ruin that. But why would we have to listen to that? We all have the 8th rules and the armies we like so we can just play with those.

[Mengel Miniatures]

Just wanted to say to all the people who are saying Fantasy is dead and no one plays it any longer, it's still going strong in the Metro Detroit area in Michigan. I see games being played all the time at at least 2 different locations, including a GW store. It's all situational. Each area will have a different meta and a different game in dominance.

[Erik Setzer]

The bonus is that we can now come to own the game as the community will be the only thing keeping it alive. This means that there is much more freedom in terms of miniatures and things like that. Fan-made army books can be formulated and allowed in certain areas. You don't need GW to give you the OK to play with your toys.

That has ALWAYS been the case unless you played in a GW store. In the '90s, we would often use models from other manufacturers (and there wasn't even the awesome assortment available today), and people used to do house rules all the time. Then it seems the community at large started pushing the idea that models must be GW models and all rules must be official, even though now the official rules are more of a jumbled mess than fan rules (and often more unbalanced and overpowered).

The fact that you're suggesting something that used to be the norm as if it's some radical new concept shows how much the community's changed, and why GW dropping official support for 8th edition will cause 8th edition to eventually fade.

[Lord Manton]

Who said anything about radical and new? It was that way and now it's not, but people seem to have forgotten that it even was that way in the first place. It's all the official tournament b******t. I've always said there's nothing stopping the community from doing whatever the hell it wants. Some people see to think the community isn't smart or capable enough to do it. You're right, if you play exclusively in GW you're stuck doing what they want. But most people play in LGSes or clubs because the culture I'm GW stores is toxic and bad
For the game ultimately.
Case in point is the oldhammer community. That's a bunch of peeps who know what they enjoy and are doing it with likeminded people. That's what this hobby is about. It's got nothing to do with the new toys or OP tripe that a big corporation wants us to shell out for. If you like 8th play it. If 9th is fun for you, play that. If you have to play warmahordes, good for you. I know I'm gonna be playing Batman for the next little while and maybe fantasy will take my fancy again soon. But as I said, my group is having fun with 8th so we'll no doubt play that for a while.

[40kGamer]

Who said anything about radical and new? It was that way and now it's not, but people seem to have forgotten that it even was that way in the first place. It's all the official tournament b******t. I've always said there's nothing stopping the community from doing whatever the hell it wants. Some people see to think the community isn't smart or capable enough to do it. You're right, if you play exclusively in GW you're stuck doing what they want. But most people play in LGSes or clubs because the culture I'm GW stores is toxic and bad
For the game ultimately.
Case in point is the oldhammer community. That's a bunch of peeps who know what they enjoy and are doing it with likeminded people. That's what this hobby is about. It's got nothing to do with the new toys or OP tripe that a big corporation wants us to shell out for. If you like 8th play it. If 9th is fun for you, play that. If you have to play warmahordes, good for you. I know I'm gonna be playing Batman for the next little while and maybe fantasy will take my fancy again soon. But as I said, my group is having fun with 8th so we'll no doubt play that for a while.

Quite true! The community is actually quite good at tweaking, adding and growing games outside of GW proper. It's not the designers fault that Corporate influences their work to move models... it is however our fault for supporting poor product releases with our purchases.

[Erik Setzer]

But most people play in LGSes or clubs because the culture I'm GW stores is toxic and bad

Strangely, it wasn't that way locally until recently... It started with the GW store having people who wanted to play the games and have fun, didn't like beatstick lists, stuff like that. But somehow even the people who railed against that stuff became WAAC players. There's no love for the game or the system, just try to tear apart the other guy. I can't even figure out how that change came about.

[Lord Manton]

I'm gonna blame Goatboy. Honestly, I think it's just the Internet. "Back in the day" it was all just local meta and people actually had to read the book to build a good list, or (like me) didn't read the book and just bought a bunch of minis. But now before an army is even released there's someone publishing a netlist based on some leaks and the local meta gets diluted by the net-meta which is extreme and no holds barred. And the group reacts to create this cycle of super hard lists. I can't count the number of times I've walked into GW and heard someone banging on about the new netlist. It's f*****g depressing.

[40kGamer]

I'm gonna blame Goatboy. Honestly, I think it's just the Internet. "Back in the day" it was all just local meta and people actually had to read the book to build a good list, or (like me) didn't read the book and just bought a bunch of minis. But now before an army is even released there's someone publishing a netlist based on some leaks and the local meta gets diluted by the net-meta which is extreme and no holds barred. And the group reacts to create this cycle of super hard lists. I can't count the number of times I've walked into GW and heard someone banging on about the new netlist. It's f*****g depressing.

http://troll.me/images/victory-baby/dont-hate-the-player-hate-the-game.jpg

Actually I do agree that the internet has been really bad for the playing community as a whole. Everyone and their sibling now show up sporting the newest broken netlist.

That being said, the corporate attitude that balance in the game is irrelevant is the true villain of this sad tale.