Dark Angels Rumor Roundup

[Bigred]

via Bird in the Trees 5-21-2015


Dark angels are following right on Space Marines.

Look for a "Grey Knight" codex only-release.

No "new" models at all, aside from those shared with Space Marines.

Slightly increased pagecount.

New formations for Deathwing, Ravenwing.

Numerous new Formations, including one landspeeder-based build about the Darkshroud.

There are some "Hunt for the Fallen" flavor rules that can come into play versus Chaos Marines.

Nephilim & Darktalon costs have been reduced.

Numerous minor changes to bring all general equipment, units and costs into alignment with upcoming codex Space Marines.

via atia on B&C 5-31-2015

Dark Angels Battle Force
14399
Looks to be three Black Knights, 1 Speeder and 1 Attack bike.

via Timotheus on B&C 5-31-2015

Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplain
14398

via Timotheus (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-17#entry4067127) on B&C 6-1-2015

Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplain
14413

via claimh_solais (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-18#entry4067450) 6-1-2015


New Terminator Librarian
14414

via Atia (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-23)on Bolter&Chainsword 6-10-2015

WD73 Spotted

145501455114552

...something interesting ...

GW has linked now all generic marine models to the DA/SW/BA/GK pages at their shop :P

the dark angels got scouts for troops, but no tactical squad ;)

via GW 6-15-2015

June 20th, the Sons of the Lion Return!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mzr0ZEV7GM

via MongooseMatt on DakkaDakka 6-15-2015


I am not really a rumour source, but this has just come through from the GW sales team;

A 160-page full colour hardback codex. The most comprehensive Dark Angels codex ever, which includes three new Dark Angels Detachments, 6 formations of and Tactical Objectives, plus Warlord Traits and Chapter Relics. This new codex gives the player the opportunity to build their own Deathwing and Ravenwing formations, from the extensive range of available miniatures.

It is a £35 Codex. Looks like Dark Angels are getting the royal treatment (at last)!

via Master Sheol (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-30#entry4089941) 6-16-2015

Dark Angels Codex /Limited Edition Sighted
1462814629


in some of the tidbits is mentioned the following:
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"

and "dark angels are known to attack hard and fast. expect the deathwing to assault on turn 2"

the upcomming WD has(sorry if it isnt 100% translated):
- at the dusk of a new age...
-...we are celebrating warhammer
- new mission: hunt The Fallen

no real leaks yet dear friends. expect them on the following tuesday/wednesday. when i got the book in my hands.

Via Warseer (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409343-Dark-Angel-V-Tzeentch-Daemonkin-boxset&p=7468448&viewfull=1#post7468448) 6-17-2015

146391464014641

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Dark Angels Roundup Continued

via gamestrust.de (http://www.gamestrust.de/bilder,list1221,1,warhammer-40-000-dark-angels.html) 6-17-2015


New Dark Angel pics:
146421464314644

Via Bolter&Chainsword 6-20-2015 (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-44)


PFG is gone and bikes are missing from the special issue wargear list. There is a bunch of other stuff missing from that list too, but I never used them, Porta-racks and the like. Belial getting the extra attack is nice. It always bothered me that one of the best fighters in the Imperium had the standard Captain stat line. Sacred Standards are 35 pts across the board. Foe smiter and Monster slayer are down 5 pts, Mace of Redemption and Lion's roar are the same. Shroud of heroes dropped 40 pts ohmy.png There is also a new relic.



Na, swap storm bolter for thunder hammer 25, swap power weapon for storm shield 5. I do hope those are IC options and nit the price across the board.



Rules are very good.

All models fire at normal bs.
Take double demi company and all transports are free just like Vanilla Marines!

Am I reading this right? Terminators can take Combi weapons???

via Terminus Est (http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2015/06/dark-angels-real-deal.html) 6-20-2015



DW knights got even better with ap3 maces rather than ap4? Middle finger to any other space marine player.

Deathwing rule replaces Inner Circle, grants Fearless and Hatred (CSM).

DW Knights maces of absolution now AP3, Smite is now basically a Smash attack: trade all attacks for one Sx2 AP2 attack, chosen per model, not limited use.

DW Assault is a formation rule, everything Deep Strikes in on choice of turn 2, 3, or 4 - includes Ven Dreads in Pods.

Summoned to War is a detachment rule, all units in detachment must start in Deep Strike reserve, if army has a RW Attack Squadron or Strike Force you basically choose the results of Reserve Rolls for the detachment.

Summon the DW: Formation rule, models in the formation are basically 12" teleport homers for DW units.

Ravenwing rule allows models to reroll failed Jink saves.

Speed of the Raven detachment rule: On first tirn (or second if units in reserves), units that turbo-boost or Flat Out count as Jinking but aren't forced to Snap Shot the following turn.

Ravenwing grenade launcher radshell is no longer -1T but the to-wound of 6 causes two wounds.

Sammael in Sabreclaw gets a D3+1 S4 AP2 hits sweep attack.

Land Speeder Vengeance plasma battery is now 36".

Dark Shroud's Icon of Old Caliban is Fear and Stealth to DA units within 6" and no prevents Overwatch when those units start the Assault phase with 6" of it.



and also the Psychic Powers


Psychic Powers:

Primaris - Mind Worm - WC1 focussed witch fire, 12" S6 AP2 Assault 1, Ignores Cover, if model takes an unsaved wound then -3 BS/WS/I/Ld for rest of game

1 - Seed of Fear - WC1 Maledication affecting all enemy units within 9", they take Morale, Pinning, and Fear on 3d6

2 - Righteous Repugnance - WC1 Blessing 24" grants unit Rage

3 - Aversion - WC1 Malediction 24" unit may only fire Snap Shots

4 - Malestrom of Misery - WC2 witchfire 24" S1 AP2 Assault 1 Blast always wounds on 4+

5 - Trephination - WC2 18" focussed witchfire - affected model rolls 2d6+2-Ld and takes that many wounds with no armor or cover saves

6 - Mind Wipe - WC3 24" malediction - target unit is WS1/BS1 until end of their next turn, when they have to take a Ld test, if failed effect is permanent




New Pics
1477014771


Via a true son of The Lion (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21907-New-Space-Marine-Codex-Rumor-Roundup/page2) 6-22-2015


Battle Demi Company

is a Company Master/Chaplain, 3 tac squads, 1 assault squad, 1 Devastator squad, with 0-1 options for Veterans, Command Squad, and Dreadnoughts. Grants all models with grim resolve BS3 overwatch. If taken as part of the Lions Blade, that goes up to full bs overwatch. If two Battle Demi companies are taken in the Lions Blade, all transports are free.



Ravenwing Support Squad:

3 Land Speeders and either a Darkshroud or Vengeance. They gain grim resolve, interceptor, and strafing run.

Grants the Ravenshield. Any Ravenwing unit that is within 24" of this formation who is charged, this formation gets to overwatch them even though vehicles normally can't overwatch. Wall of death can only be used if the speeders are within 6 inches of the friendly unit.


Ravenwing Attack Squadron:

Either a bike squad or attack bike squad, and either 1 speeder or a vengeance.

Attack Squadron: If the speeder or Vengeance scores a hit against their target, the bikes bikes from this formation have +1 bs when firing at the same target.

Summon the Deathwing: Deep striking Deathwing models don't scatter if placed within 12" of this formation. Formation must have started the turn on the board for this to take effect.



Almost forgot a formation. And I figured people want to see it since the bundle is for sale.



Ravenwing Silence Squadron

2 Nephilims and a Dark Talon. They come on as a single unit, no need for separate reserve rolls.

The stasis bomb won't scatter, and causes a 2d6 initiative test picking the highest. If the warlord is slain in this way, you immediately gain D3 victory points. That rule is called capture run. (In order for the stasis bomb to trigger an initiative test you have to cause an unsaved wound. And it's str 4 ap 5).

There are other formations but they seem to be like the boring space marine formations.



Deathwing Redemption Force

And there is a Deathwing formation also. Grants Deathwing Assault on turns 2 3 or 4. And the turn they arrive the basically get battle focus (run then shoot or shoot then run).

Requirements are Belial or just about any other terminator HQ, and 2 terminator squads.

Sad news, Deathwing Assault is no longer a 'special rule' or on turn one, is now restricted to the formation, and occurs on turns 2,3,4.

Original Post
--------------------------------------------------------

Sounds about right, the Dark Angels were the army everyone was thinking of when 40k dropped "Make a unit Troops" in favor of FOrmations and FOC.

I wonder if they'll get access to Grav weapons, since they're reliant on the vanilla Space Marine sprues for Tacticals.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Hope they at least get an Interrogator Chaplain clampack.

[spiralingcadaver]

Hmm, that's disappointingly fast.

I kinda' feel like DA/BA/maybe SW should go back to a 3rd ed-ish version of modified codex marines (obviously more fleshed-out than 3rd) just so any changes to the core wouldn't need to be repeated in the others...

[Lexington]

Numerous minor changes to bring all general equipment, units and costs into alignment with upcoming codex Space Marines.
So, the not-even-cooled Blood Angels Codex is already going to be out of sync with the basic Marine formula?

Great.

[40kGamer]

So, the not-even-cooled Blood Angels Codex is already going to be out of sync with the basic Marine formula?

Great.

Sigh... Codex Thunderwolves going out of sync has me tearing up too. This new release schedule has been freaking exhausting.

[Lexington]

Sigh... Codex Thunderwolves going out of sync has me tearing up too. This new release schedule has been freaking exhausting.
Tell me about it. Must be nice for the Eldar, Necron and presumably Marine players soon enough. For those of us stuck with a book during the "downswing" period, tho, I guess the response is "just wait - you might be lucky enough to get a book before GW has another change of heart/rules-based sales strategy!"

I said this earlier on the main page thread, but I played a game of Infinity tonight, and it's amazing how refreshing it is to play a game that Ian't being held hostage to a company's clear financial panic.

[40kGamer]

I said this earlier on the main page thread, but I played a game of Infinity tonight, and it's amazing how refreshing it is to play a game that Isn't being held hostage to a company's clear financial panic.

It doesn't hurt that Infinity's a great game. :p

[Lexington]

It doesn't hurt that Infinity's a great game. :p
It doesn't. GW could lead some lessons, there.

[musical-fool]

Don't worry,as a DA player, I have learnt from experience. If there is a new DA codex coming then about amonth later some big game chhanges are released that make it redundent...

On the up side, I am glad the points are being aligned with the SM dex. I hope we'll gain access to grav weapons and a flying transport? Wishful thinking?

[40kGamer]

Don't worry,as a DA player, I have learnt from experience. If there is a new DA codex coming then about amonth later some big game chhanges are released that make it redundent...

ROFL


On the up side, I am glad the points are being aligned with the SM dex. I hope we'll gain access to grav weapons and a flying transport? Wishful thinking?

Under the new philosophy it's all about the formations. Who knows, maybe Dark Angels will actually get a bone this time around.

[spagunk]

Paying $50+ every two years for a codex really sucks the big one. Does this also mean another $80+ rulebook is happening this year too? This is insane.

[Erik Setzer]

Tell me about it. Must be nice for the Eldar, Necron and presumably Marine players soon enough. For those of us stuck with a book during the "downswing" period, tho, I guess the response is "just wait - you might be lucky enough to get a book before GW has another change of heart/rules-based sales strategy!"

I said this earlier on the main page thread, but I played a game of Infinity tonight, and it's amazing how refreshing it is to play a game that Ian't being held hostage to a company's clear financial panic.

My biggest problem is just that there's such a difference in army rules, and even units within a codex, that if you don't play the "right" army - much less the "right" units in that army - you can end up playing a game that's just 3-4 hours of one-sided beating. Over time, playing enough of those games can be trying on a person.

[Houghten]

Must be a really big game if a one-sided beating is taking three hours. I generally find my mismatches are over in one or less; it's the really close, bloody-minded slugging matches that take ages.

[eosgreen]

anyone else only mad about the fact that the DA character sculpts are horrible.... i want a new belial... things awful

[Erik Setzer]

Must be a really big game if a one-sided beating is taking three hours. I generally find my mismatches are over in one or less; it's the really close, bloody-minded slugging matches that take ages.

Nah... a 2000 point match can drag out like that at times. You throw your wad at the opposing army, don't do much damage, and they chew into your army gradually until it just collapses. Heck, if it was a really quick match, I'd at least have time to find something to do to wash the bad taste out.

[musical-fool]

anyone else only mad about the fact that the DA character sculpts are horrible.... i want a new belial... things awful

Well belial is the only one I would say is horrible. Asmodai, Sam the man, azrael and ezekiel are all good imho.
However, as Belial has always been a conversion in the past, I don't everyone will be happy with a single GW model simply because it won't represent every individual conversion/idea.

I am still hoping they put heavy plasmas as an option for attack bikes as they did for the Deathwing.
1st legion bonus weapons 40k volkites? Again wishful thinking, I can't help it!!!

[eosgreen]

Well belial is the only one I would say is horrible. Asmodai, Sam the man, azrael and ezekiel are all good imho.
However, as Belial has always been a conversion in the past, I don't everyone will be happy with a single GW model simply because it won't represent every individual conversion/idea.

I am still hoping they put heavy plasmas as an option for attack bikes as they did for the Deathwing.
1st legion bonus weapons 40k volkites? Again wishful thinking, I can't help it!!!


the conversion options are not that great and finecast librarian looks like **** imo.... the other special characters are meh. id love to see a legit good kitbashed belial and azrael. im a great painter but a terrible sculptor

[musical-fool]

Well with the latest releases for SM and the included DA upgrade sprue and decal sheet, it's looking more likely that there'll just be a limited release for the codex, if and when the DA are redone.

I was impressed with the FW 30k decal sheets they released a few weeks back, but the ones GW are about to release for DA amongst others are just as incredible albeit on the expensive side.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm most excited about the banners on them. I'm nowhere near artsy enough to do my own, and those paper ones have always looked 'Orrible.

[musical-fool]

I'm most excited about the banners on them. I'm nowhere near artsy enough to do my own, and those paper ones have always looked 'Orrible.

Ditto! Will have to see what they're like hands on.

[Tomgar]

New Interrogator Chaplain up at the B&C :)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/305237-rumours-space-marines-devastators-and-codex-pg-68/?p=4065466

[Bigred]

via atia on B&C 5-31-2015

Dark Angels Battle Force
14399
Looks to be three Black Knights, 1 Speeder and 1 Attack bike.

via Timotheus on B&C 5-31-2015

Dark Angels Interrogator Chaplain
14398

[Houghten]

Can't say I'm particularly enamoured with the Interrogator-Chaplain...

[Mr Mystery]

I really like it! Very different style of armour.

[Cpt Codpiece]

power fist and crozius?

but that is the sternguard power fist... right?

[Kirsten]

liking the chaplain, I prefer him to asmodai

[Anggul]

Looks cool, nice to have more variety along with the Dark Vengeance one.

[rallyfox]

I like the chaplain but I'm going to lop off that crozius and convert him to a captain. Can't say the battleforce excites me though.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Love most of the details on the Chaplain, but I can't say I'm fond of the trend the Deathwing Knights started of the model's hood entirely covering its eyes. (The two fellows in back;)
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101096_DeathwingKnights03.jpg

[Brother Sutek]

It's okay but the weapon choice is weird. I'm not really wanting yet another chaplain for my DA's. It's the pigeonholing that annoys me, Libbies for BA's, Captains for Smurfs. If anything I would prefer better options for squads but we already have it okay. Now if our flyers can get better... see also speeders(that I love).

[musical-fool]

Niiiice! Looking forward to all this!

One thing, the end of what I suppose is a librarian's staff (left of the image) seems new, I can't see it on any of the SM libbys. Can anyone confirm?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I don't know, that does look new, but I recognise that bit.

[musical-fool]

I don't know, that does look new, but I recognise that bit.

I can't find it on the GW website, thought it might be part of a GK sprue but not there, defo not a current libby staff ornament as far as I can see...

Could this be the long whispered dual chaplain/libby set?

But then why only take a photo of the chaplain and not the librarian?

The chaplain is looking more and more like a mash up of the Captain from dark vengence ( althougg all the details are different) and various parts from other sprues.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Interrogator looks rather nice, good visual difference from normal ones and looks better than the DV one IMO.

[Brakkart]

A better pic of the Interrogator Chaplain courtesy of Timotheus over on B&C (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-17#entry4067127):

http://i.imgur.com/nDRYRNo.jpg

Really nice figure, I'm tempted to get him and convert him for my Imperial Fists.

[Erik Setzer]

Yeah, the weapon choice is the only thing I don't get. It makes for a more "menacing" pose, sure, and it looks cool... but I can't picture giving a Chaplain a power fist. I guess I can see why you might, but it's certainly not something that you'd imagine as a "default" for a Chaplain.

[40kGamer]

Nice enough figure. Still not sold on the whole veiled eyes look.

[Path Walker]

It looks cool, thats all that matters.

[ammobunkerdean]

Its better than Chaplain Huggy Bear:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Chaplain-with-Crozius-Power-Fist

[40kGamer]

Its better than Chaplain Huggy Bear:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Chaplain-with-Crozius-Power-Fist

But Huggy is adorable!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I am in love with that Chaplain model. Phwoooooaaar.

[Bigred]

via claimh_solais (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-18#entry4067450) 6-1-2015


New Terminator Librarian
14414

[Cpt Codpiece]

That head is worse than the blood angels one.

Where are the sculpted details? no ridged horns on librarius crux (or the rod skull, that one is forgivable though) or lines in his face.

Good to see them taller now but i fear new terminators will be fixed poses like the blood angels ones.

[musical-fool]

via claimh_solais (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-18#entry4067450) 6-1-2015

Said that bit on the left of the initial chaplain looked new ^^

[Dalleron]

some nice parts on that chappy model, but I don't care for it on the whole. Libby doesn' do much for me either.

[Magus]

Hold up, is he wearing armour on top of his robe on top of his power armour?

Also, why another crozius / powerfist chaplain? The inefficiency kills me every time.

[RGilbert26]

Powerfist for vehicles or Monstrous creatures that can't challenge, Power Maul for everything else.

[musical-fool]

But Huggy is adorable!

I always thought it was a "u wot m8!?" Chaplain. Wan a bit of me ol crozius on yar cranium or me fist in yer face! He always reminded me of gladiator "are you not entertained!?" In defiance of the Chaos gods.

[Path Walker]

That head is worse than the blood angels one.

Where are the sculpted details? no ridged horns on librarius crux (or the rod skull, that one is forgivable though) or lines in his face.

Good to see them taller now but i fear new terminators will be fixed poses like the blood angels ones.

I'm amazed you can see some much from such low resolution pictures.

The blood angel terminators are such and improvement over the regular box, it's not even funny, they'd limited in poses but they have enough variety to make up for it and they look fantastic.

[Mr Mystery]

I always thought it was a "u wot m8!?" Chaplain. Wan a bit of me ol crozius on yar cranium or me fist in yer face! He always reminded me of gladiator "are you not entertained!?" In defiance of the Chaos gods.

Definitely a pose exalting the Emperor!

[Kirsten]

I caught a heretic the other day, he was this big

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Are we honestly saying that the current Terminators are in better poses than the Blood Angel ones? Wow.

[eosgreen]

the termy lib is awful tho... personally im not sure it CAN look good but the non-helm look is def a problem...

[Timotheus]

Hints for the week after the Devs (WD Issue 72) are:
- Utilizing the Empyrean (translated from german)
- Space Marines
- 'Eavy Metal

Age of Sigmar Preorder starts 4th of July.

[Path Walker]

No other company offers the wealth of options and poses that GW do, the restricted poses of the latest kits is to allow for some stunning detail and poses that wouldn't be possible otherwise.
So pathetic to criticise that when most other companies offer nothing in the way of posing. Infinity has no models with any options in weapons or poses, it's mostly same with Dropzone, most Mantic stuff have nothing useful, malifaux is all fixed too.

The Blood Angel Terminator box has a lot of options and variety but poses that are fixed to allow for them to look ****ing cool.

Seriously, some people will really struggle to try and criticise GW over anything.

[Power Klawz]

That interrogator Chaplain is pretty schweet lookin'. Been trying to decide which loyalist marine force to expand on since I'm finishing up my Ork force and I think he just tipped the scales. Was already leaning DA anyways though, especially since they don't have the teletubbies in their army list yet.

Maybe they'll buff their flyers in the next dex. WHO KNOWS?!

(Sort of wondering why there hasn't been any buzz about a plastic Space Marine super-heavy tank. Seems like something they could use, and its odd to see SM not getting all the toys that other armies have access to.)

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I like the Chaplain a lot. Probably gonna dive into some Dark Angels!

[Austin Becht]

I like the Chaplain a lot. Probably gonna dive into some Dark Angels!

That and the upgrade kit had me hooked. Sadly, I'm determined to finish my Skitarii and my Angmar first...alas, the Dark Angels will have to wait.

[Houghten]

So pathetic to criticise that when most other companies offer nothing in the way of posing. Infinity has no models with any options in weapons or poses, it's mostly same with Dropzone, most Mantic stuff have nothing useful, malifaux is all fixed too.

Hang about.

Are you seriously complaining that Dropzone Commander models can't be posed enough? Because they're tanks. How the hell are you going to put waist articulation on a slab of metal?

[daboarder]

Hang about.

Are you seriously complaining that Dropzone Commander models can't be posed enough? Because they're tanks. How the hell are you going to put waist articulation on a slab of metal?
Hes also clearly never seen a mantic plastic kit.....because being a multipart plasric kit has more poses than the BA terminators

To repeat stating that the BA kit is good when the SAME company puts out the grey knight, wolf guard, dark angels terminator kits with more bits poseabillity and detail is just silly.

The BA kit is just terrible it amounts to basically a step backward of about 15 years in terms of technology.

Edit its also worth pointing out that the BA kit under discussion doesnt have any waist articulation either

[Erik Setzer]

Malifaux and Infinity tend to be better detailed models (though assembling some Malifaux models can take a lot of patience due to all the detail parts), so they can be forgiven a bit. They also don't cost $30 for one infantry figure.

But yeah, the main complaint comes when you look at GW's models versus their own product offering. When you see more options - in terms of what you can equip/detail a model with as well as posing - in older kits that cost less, you can't go trying to write off new models that take away all those options but cost more.

And when people say "But other company don't have so many posing options!" I want to note that they typically cost a lot less, and those same GW "apologists" also claim that GW is by far the best in the business. So if GW is the best by a mile and all, and they used to be able to do multi-part models that could be posed, then why are they now not able to do that? Why is pretty much every character mono-pose with practically no options? Why do I have an expensive kit like the Stormfiends where I have three models in a unit (which costs $200 to build!) that look exactly the same, same pose, same details, same piece of terrain they're standing on? Why have they taken so many steps backward while charging more, using cheaper material, and using software to sculpt that is supposed to improve things? Especially when some kits, like infantry kits, show they can do this stuff. You can get a $40 box of Skitarii with a bunch of options that can be posed all over, but a $30 infantry character model can only have a hand swap and can't be set up in different poses?

Yeah, just forget the other companies (but, again, if you claim GW is the best by sooooo much distance, your defense can't be "but these other companies do something sort of similar!"), even within GW's own stuff, even within the stuff they're putting out right now, the pricing and options and other stuff aren't looking right.

[Mr Mystery]

Cor, it's almost as if it's a matter of personal taste.

Imagine that! Subjective opinions being subjective! Will wonders never, ever cease?

[Cpt Codpiece]

I'm amazed you can see some much from such low resolution pictures.

The blood angel terminators are such and improvement over the regular box, it's not even funny, they'd limited in poses but they have enough variety to make up for it and they look fantastic.

im sorry, but look at the crux, it is tiny and has NO detail, you dont need a super high pixel count to see the crux is almost flush with the pad. (look at the close up pad pic and the forward facing one)
and i fear the tubing for the hood is not textured, those lines look like paint highlights, though i will admit, that could well be quality of pic.

the static poses of the blood angel terminators is a major backward step, they could have put those details on the mini and made them multi pose like regular terminators, but no, you get two poses (claws or hammers), with molded in heads, so you cant even repose them easily. a simple pose change on a head can change the pose dramaticaly, for better or for worse. single pose kits are fine and well for boxed games but not general release.

[Path Walker]

Hes also clearly never seen a mantic plastic kit.....because being a multipart plasric kit has more poses than the BA terminators

To repeat stating that the BA kit is good when the SAME company puts out the grey knight, wolf guard, dark angels terminator kits with more bits poseabillity and detail is just silly.

The BA kit is just terrible it amounts to basically a step backward of about 15 years in terms of technology.

Edit its also worth pointing out that the BA kit under discussion doesnt have any waist articulation either

Actually, I am pretty sure I currently own at least one of every of the Mantic plastic kits what with various crazy box deals and kickstarters. So I can tell you quite easily that they universally have almost no customisation, the best kits they do, the zombies and ghouls, have a set of torsos and a set of legs, the newer Deadzone kits have multiple parts, torsos legs and arms but they are all set to which bodies, legs and arms go to each model, so again, next to nothing in terms of posing. You can move arms up and down maybe, but that is the same on the Blood Angel Terminator kit. I could go on.

The only kit mantic do with much in the way of posing and options is the kit even Mantic have said isn't up to standard (which is a pretty low standard anyway) the Men at Arms kit.


Hang about.

Are you seriously complaining that Dropzone Commander models can't be posed enough? Because they're tanks. How the hell are you going to put waist articulation on a slab of metal?
Not complaining, saying that having little in the way of options doesn't make them bad models and point out how rare kits with a lot of options is in the hobby.

Making models that look better is not a backwards step.

- - - Updated - - -

The skitarii boxes have a lot of options but, again, because of how intricate they are, they are not very customisable. each set of legs has a body and arms that fit it properly, mixing these up isn't possible without converting. It doesn't mean its a bad kit, because they're amazing models.

Malifaux are probably about the closest anyother company gets the GW quality in plastic, they have no options or customisation, they're single monopose models, the prices are on par with GW, you're paying £30 for a box of 5-6 models.

Keep on trying though, by all means.

[spagunk]

To repeat stating that the BA kit is good when the SAME company puts out the grey knight, wolf guard, dark angels terminator kits with more bits poseabillity and detail is just silly.

The BA kit is just terrible it amounts to basically a step backward of about 15 years in terms of technology.


I'm happy with my BA terminator purchase. :Colbert:

[Erik Setzer]

Cor, it's almost as if it's a matter of personal taste.

Imagine that! Subjective opinions being subjective! Will wonders never, ever cease?

Well, that's why it's fair to compare GW to GW, which is where things go off the rails. We know they *can* do things, and not charge as much... but then, they probably recognize that the customer base they have left will, at least in the 60-70% range, just accept monopose models without options that cost more than sanity deems they should, so why put in the effort or money to do the other? They can save money on a monopose model with a single hand-swap option, charge more for it, and people will still buy it and jump all over anyone who questions it. At that point, there's no need to do anything different, until that number diminishes enough to see them losing money that they can't get back by just cutting staff further.

Objectively, you can't defend a $30 monopose infantry model with a single hand swap versus a $25 model with a lot of options or a $40 set of ten models with plenty of options, all made by the same company and with similar levels of detail (sometimes more with the cheaper models). But that won't stop people from trying. (I shouldn't complain so much, because it's a fascinating view into psychology, a sort of Stockholm syndrome even, seeing how people defend these things.)

[Path Walker]

Its almost as if some people have never heard the words supply and demand. A Tactical squad can be cheap because they will sell tons of them, big rat monsters for an army of a game that doesn't sell as well will have to be priced higher. Its not some evil insidious move by the company, its simple economics of scale.

[Mr Mystery]

Yep.

Don't get me wrong - some prices do leave me scratching my head. Witch Elves for instance. They're nice models like, but now in plastic, and a core choice, so the £35 a box seems high.

Though it's entirely on par with Warmahordes boxes, so it's not just GW with the odd peculiar price point.

And in addition to a given units place in the game's organisational structure, there's also the points to consider. Take my beloved Kasteallan Robots. Gorgeous models, fantastic kit. But a not-inconsiderable £42 for three models. Yikes. But then I have a look at their points values. Yeah. That's some pretty decent 'pound per point', certainly enough that I have two boxes worth at present.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

That and the upgrade kit had me hooked.

Yes. More wing-hats. Fewer crappy freehand chapter symbols. The sword is lovely. I'll use every single one of those pieces. More upgrade kits, please!

[40kGamer]

Yep.

Don't get me wrong - some prices do leave me scratching my head. Witch Elves for instance. They're nice models like, but now in plastic, and a core choice, so the £35 a box seems high.

Though it's entirely on par with Warmahordes boxes, so it's not just GW with the odd peculiar price point.

And in addition to a given units place in the game's organisational structure, there's also the points to consider. Take my beloved Kasteallan Robots. Gorgeous models, fantastic kit. But a not-inconsiderable £42 for three models. Yikes. But then I have a look at their points values. Yeah. That's some pretty decent 'pound per point', certainly enough that I have two boxes worth at present.

Pricing has to be seriously tough for GW to work out if you think about it. Probably 80% of a models sales will happen during it's initial release window so they have to make a good estimate of how many they think they can sale vs the cost vs what they need the kit to provide in profit. Too high risks people not buying the kit and too low risks not making the amount of profit they targeted. Not a fun job for them to work it out at all.

[Erik Setzer]

And in addition to a given units place in the game's organisational structure, there's also the points to consider. Take my beloved Kasteallan Robots. Gorgeous models, fantastic kit. But a not-inconsiderable £42 for three models. Yikes. But then I have a look at their points values. Yeah. That's some pretty decent 'pound per point', certainly enough that I have two boxes worth at present.

That's always been a bad way to view things. A product should stand on its own merits, not "points-per-pound/dollar." And heck, if you go that route, the Ork Mek Gunz look even worse than they already did, because five of them will set you back $230 (not sure the pound price) and are less than 200 points fully kitted out (with full crew and all, which I think you might need more Grots for). So not only are you paying way too much for a small model of a single artillery piece, you're also paying more dollars than its max points cost. No surprise to me that I've only seen a single one of them in anyone's army.

As for other companies having odd prices on some units, at least it doesn't sting as much when you can get an entire army or fleet for $125 (or even less). Okay, sure, Bolt Action is about $300, but for a nice army at 2000 points, whereas a 2000 point 40K army is more like $800-$900. So we should probably stop with comparing GW prices to other companies...

[daboarder]

I'm happy with my BA terminator purchase. :Colbert:
And good on you for that, glad to hear it.

But the kit is in no way up the the standard that GW offers in other places

[Kirsten]

Pricing has to be seriously tough for GW to work out if you think about it. Probably 80% of a models sales will happen during it's initial release window so they have to make a good estimate of how many they think they can sale vs the cost vs what they need the kit to provide in profit. Too high risks people not buying the kit and too low risks not making the amount of profit they targeted. Not a fun job for them to work it out at all.

yeah, and they have obviously learned. sticking with the fantasy, boxes of ten rose steadily in price until they peaked at £35 with the dark elves, ten high elf shadow warriors? £30. ten dark elf witch elves? £35. but then ten wood elf rangers? £23.50. it is a shame they aren't bringing the dark elves down to match, or even knock a fiver off, but they do learn sometimes.

[Houghten]

Keep on trying though, by all means.

I will, because trying to use DZC models as an example of something unposable is shamefully wrong and you should feel bad.

Yeah, they mostly don't have options, but that's because Hawk would rather sell you, eg, the Sabre and Rapier once each instead of a Sabre/Rapier one-chassis-two-guns pack twice. I like that; I'm not paying extra for a bucket of resin I can't use.

What they do have is posing. All the turrets turn, many of them elevate, the walkers have waist joints* and hip joints, the dropships' VTOL jets turn, the Ferrum can be built expanded or collapsed, the ramps on the hovercraft and drill open/close...

There's also the crowning glory, the 30mm scale Ares, which has posable toes, but it almost feels like cheating to mention that; it's not a typical DZC model.

*except the Janus, which is weeny, and the Hades, which is not bipedal and wouldn't know a waist if one danced in front of it, but it does have ankles instead (not to mention the multi-part tail)

[40kGamer]

yeah, and they have obviously learned. sticking with the fantasy, boxes of ten rose steadily in price until they peaked at £35 with the dark elves, ten high elf shadow warriors? £30. ten dark elf witch elves? £35. but then ten wood elf rangers? £23.50. it is a shame they aren't bringing the dark elves down to match, or even knock a fiver off, but they do learn sometimes.

It is a shame as the dark elves are lovely models. Maybe with the reboot from end times their will be more than one miracle.

[musical-fool]

Anyone else notice the new Deva squads show DA with the Graviton Amp weapon? Might be the first confimed option change for the New DA Dex...

[Maverick421]

Anyone else notice the new Deva squads show DA with the Graviton Amp weapon? Might be the first confimed option change for the New DA Dex...

I noticed that too, right there on GW screen shots for the new Devastators. I can only hope we get some love for our plasma weapons.

[HsojVvad]

Anyone else notice the new Deva squads show DA with the Graviton Amp weapon? Might be the first confimed option change for the New DA Dex...

I think it means nothing. I can't remember what exactly GW did, but I remember something that GW showed a mini with something but it wasn't in the codex and people complained that how come GW would show a pic with it if it can't use it.

I wouldn't get my hopes up. We just don't know. Better to not expect it and not disappointed or expect it and if it doesn't happen be disappointed and upset.

[Erik Setzer]

I think it means nothing. I can't remember what exactly GW did, but I remember something that GW showed a mini with something but it wasn't in the codex and people complained that how come GW would show a pic with it if it can't use it.

Tactical Squad box shows a Marine with a flamer and another one with a grav gun (plus the missile launcher and Sergeant):

14488

So yeah, sometimes they picture things you can't do in-game.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I'd be surprised if Dark Angels couldn't take Grav weapons in the new book, honestly. I don't see a good reason to disallow it - and the options now exist in at least three core kits for Dark Angels, viz. the Tactical, Assault and Devastator boxes - and for once the Dark Angels codex is coming out *after* a Space Marines book. Unless they're going to say that the Dark Angels managed to leave all their Grav technology in a cardboard box on Caliban (perhaps in the same one the Chaos Space Marines left all their drop pods, heh heh heh), I'd get used to grav-totin' robed guys.

Whether they're getting Centurions is another matter. Do we think yes? No?

I bought Dark Vengeance in anticipation of new Dangles, because apparently I'm a weak man and prone to secrets. :(

Edit: Nice catch on the tac squad, Erik, I'd never noticed that before. D'oh!

[Erik Setzer]

I imagine DA will get most of what standard Marines have, but swapping out units for DA versions where appropriate (i.e. Terminators and Bikes).

I noticed the Tactical Squad just looking at the box at the local GW store a few weeks ago. I was wondering what was in it to add to my Marines, and just noticed those guys on the cover. Nice to show off options, but it's not a game-legal unit. :-P

[Mr Mystery]

I think Ravenwing could do with a little floofing up.

I know this is old stuff, but they were ace in 2nd Edition. Best Landspeeder of the two (assault cannon and heavy bolter), really difficult to hit (-1 to hit, stacked with speed modifiers) and really good at high speeds (as they didn't take a BS hit for speeding. In your face, law enforcement of the 41st Millenium!).

Then came 3rd Ed, of which we shall not speak of ever again, because it was rubbish

Ever since then, they've been gradually edging back to what made them really cool. For a while, you could get four scoring units out of a single slot, which was nice, then they lost that, then gained it back again with a change to the core rules.

So for me, in addition to the very welcome, plasmadakkaliciousstophammertime Knights, they just need to become high-speed maniacs again. Even if it's just 'can still shoot at rapid fire range if they turbo boosted/moved flat out', it'd be something! Now before people start whining, that's one just off the top of my head - I've not thought it through. It's just an example.

Deathwing Terminators are pretty much dandy as is. Being able to mix up the weapons, coupled to being Fearless is really, really nice. That they can take a Plasma Cannon is just a pleasant bonus. About the only thing to tweak them I could suggest might be a slightly tarted up Landraider as a transport option. Nothing too fancy, but enough to suggest these are their relic Raiders - ones that have been in service since the Great Crusade, and thus are a wee bit better than the more modern output.

- - - Updated - - -


yeah, and they have obviously learned. sticking with the fantasy, boxes of ten rose steadily in price until they peaked at £35 with the dark elves, ten high elf shadow warriors? £30. ten dark elf witch elves? £35. but then ten wood elf rangers? £23.50. it is a shame they aren't bringing the dark elves down to match, or even knock a fiver off, but they do learn sometimes.

Trouble there is those who bought at the higher price getting gypped.

But hey, they do like to experiment with their prices. And once I've got a proven track record of running a business I can offer critique on whether that's good or bad.

Don't hold your breath though - I'm quite happy being dead brainy in my current career :)

[Kirsten]

I don't think too many people would complain if prices as a whole came down. I bought a dark elf army and I would be very much in favour of them dropping prices for those players coming after me.

[Mr Mystery]

You forgot to multiply rationality by internet.

Remember, you don't actually have to play the game or have bought the affected kit to have a good old whine. Indeed, even though you apparently sold off all your models in a fit of pique some years ago and have no active interest in the game, your opinion carries more weight.

Silly Kirsten.

[Houghten]

GW kits and my flat are the only things I've ever bought that didn't plummet in price a week after I bought them.

[Kirsten]

build a house out of plastic sprues and you are set

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Dark Angels will (surely!) be getting bespoke formations and a detachment structure, too - because everyone is - which might add some more interesting flavor and builds.

[Maverick421]

Dark Angels will (surely!) be getting bespoke formations and a detachment structure, too - because everyone is - which might add some more interesting flavor and builds.

I really hope this is the case.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It will be. Every book since at least Necrons has had one.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

build a house out of plastic sprues and you are set

Mantic Deadzone terrain?

[Erik Setzer]

It will be. Every book since at least Necrons has had one.

Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, and Knights say "Hello!"

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Ha, fair enough; although I bet you that if the Adeptus Mechanicus had all been in one book like they, you know, should have been, then they'd have had one. Knights are weird.

[Erik Setzer]

But at the same time, the argument could be made Dark Angels are similarly "minor" as an army. And since Blood Angels and Space Wolves only got their own FOC (Space Wolves basically got two), as well as assorted formations, I wouldn't be surprised for Dark Angels to get that, too.

[Timotheus]

DA next: http://image.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_10492/med_gallery_79873_10492_537536.png

[interrogator_chaplain]

Interrogator-Chaplain first and the Codex the week after?

[Bigred]

via Atia (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-23) on Bolter&Chainsword 6-10-2015

WD73 Spotted

145501455114552

...something interesting ...

GW has linked now all generic marine models to the DA/SW/BA/GK pages at their shop :P

the dark angels got scouts for troops, but no tactical squad ;)

Via Atia (and others) on Bolter & Chainsword (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-26) 6-12-2015


your teaser video?

MONDAY

it's called "for the lion"

have fun ;)

14571

The Preview in Paint splatter says:
DARK BUT NOT BLACK
and the cover of the next WD is about the DARK Angels Chaplain...
So if the codex won't be in preorder on 20th june it will on 27th... ;)

[Timotheus]

Interrogator-Chaplain first and the Codex the week after?

Very likely both together next week.

[Kirsten]

I would think two weeks, if they both come next week, then what will fill the week before Warhammer 9th preorders? even then I think there is still an extra week to fill, have we had any other rumours?

[Ravingbantha]

The DA codex is still up on the US site, if I remember correctly, the old codex goes down a few weeks before the new one goes up.

[Mr Mystery]

Still up on the UK site as well.

I think Kirsten may be right, and we're getting a staggered two week release.

Though 'just a Chaplain', however nice the model is a pretty quiet release week. Must be something else, surely?

[Cutter]

Still up on the UK site as well.

I think Kirsten may be right, and we're getting a staggered two week release.

Though 'just a Chaplain', however nice the model is a pretty quiet release week. Must be something else, surely?

Nah, they just making sure you've got plenty of money for July. Blue wallet syndrome.

[Mr Mystery]

Could be Chapter Transfers and that I suppose?

[Kirsten]

librarian this week, chaplain next week, codex the week after, then 4th of July magic happens.

[Houghten]

Could be Chapter Transfers and that I suppose?
But the chapter transfers are already available...

[Mr Mystery]

Not that then :p

[Erik Setzer]

Nah, they just making sure you've got plenty of money for July. Blue wallet syndrome.

Yeah, that's definitely not it. They don't seem to appreciate the concept of giving wallets time to breathe. It's more likely they have a set plan of releases, and it's easier to just draw out the Marines before AoS rather than throw in another codex or something and try to wedge it in before AoS.

[Anggul]

Still up on the UK site as well.

I think Kirsten may be right, and we're getting a staggered two week release.

Though 'just a Chaplain', however nice the model is a pretty quiet release week. Must be something else, surely?

What could there be? They got the upgrade kit, the new Marine kits are applicable to them, all they have left that could be updated is... Azrael I guess? Even then you can use the DV Master as him. Big sword, combi-plasma, identical helmet.

They got a pretty big release last time and all the rest is shared marine stuff which has been updated anyway.

[Mr Mystery]

Updated Marine Bikers?

I only say that because they're currently out of stock on the GW website. And Emperor knows they need it! Oldest bikes in the game now Eldar have had theirs updated*


*excluding SS and the Autarch

[Aldavaer]

Marine Bikes doesn't make much sense as we already have a ravenwing bike squad. Also on the Belgian site both the standard marine bikes and ravenwing bikes are available.

Although I agree they are in need of an update.

I can't really think of anything DA are missing that isn't available as a kit for standard marines. There is nothing I recall mentioned in the books that has no kit unless they have decided to do a librarian or chaplain on a bike.

Which could be a possibility as the ravenwing bike kit is not in the battle force, replace it with a new kit closer to the new bikes in style and then use the same basic bike for a librarian and/or chaplain. Similar to the Eldar jetbikes and farseer/warlock on jetbike.

[Alex Knight]

14581

Back of the new Dev box. Why would they have the 'Eavy Metal team paint it up in DA colors if it won't be an option? Guess we're getting Grav Guns.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

To be fair it was pointed out a page or two back that box art isn't always a good indication of legal choices; on the other hand, I think it'd be completely insane for grav weapons not to be available in the new DA book. I can't see it not happening.

[Aldavaer]

The Paper DAcodex has gone from the GW website here in BE, although the iPad version is still available.

[Erik Setzer]

I think they'll get it, but let's no say "The 'Eavy Metal team painted it, it must be real!" Go look at a Tactical Squad box at your local store, then tell me where a squad can have a flamer, a grav-gun (not Sergeant's combi-grav, but a trooper with a grav-gun), and a missile launcher, all in the same squad.

They also recently featured a Thanquol model in WD that was built with two censers and two warpfire throwers.

So wait until the book is out before you say it's 100%. I'd bet they get it, but right now we don't really have something to definitively say that.

[Bigred]

June 20th, the Sons of the Lion Return!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mzr0ZEV7GM

[Aldavaer]

From Master Sheol over on Bolter and Chainsword

Preorder 20/06... Release 27/06

Codex DA 160 pages 46€
(It is Said to have 3 different decurion style detachments -GW, RW, DW- and several formations)
DA datacards 10€
Interrogator Chaplain 23€

[Rajden]

They updated the Devkit that includes gravs. Would be a bull**** move of GW not to allow Grav for DA.

Not that I am at all interested in grav. Lamest guns. Plasma is the DA way and you know it. ;)

[Bigred]

via MongooseMatt on DakkaDakka 6-15-2015


I am not really a rumour source, but this has just come through from the GW sales team;

A 160-page full colour hardback codex. The most comprehensive Dark Angels codex ever, which includes three new Dark Angels Detachments, 6 formations of and Tactical Objectives, plus Warlord Traits and Chapter Relics. This new codex gives the player the opportunity to build their own Deathwing and Ravenwing formations, from the extensive range of available miniatures.

It is a £35 Codex. Looks like Dark Angels are getting the royal treatment (at last)!

[Kirsten]

three detachments, one each for dark angels, ravenwing, and deathwing. hmm, who was it that said deathwing and ravenwing armies weren't going anywhere? let me think.

[Mr Mystery]

Don't worry, I'm sure they'll have decided they're a slap in the face, a kick in the nuts and possibly a molestation of their hamster already. The whine must flow.

[Path Walker]

What would it take for the usual crowd to say "Hey, thats a pretty cool release, good job GW"

[Erik Setzer]

hmm, who was it that said deathwing and ravenwing armies weren't going anywhere? let me think.

No need to think much. The answer is: "Everyone with a pulse."

[Mr Mystery]

I didn't.

And I've got a pulse.

[Grenndal]

What would it take for the usual crowd to say "Hey, thats a pretty cool release, good job GW"

that could never happen. No matter how good a release people will find something to complain about. either too soon or not soon enough, either to powerful or too whimpy. it just can't happen.

[Mr Mystery]

Shameless promotion.....my Bro has over a company of Dark Angels, comprised largely of 2nd Ed models...and he's looking to sell.

[Path Walker]

"Bundles are useless because there is no advantage to buying them"

GW makes bundles with an advantage

"They're evil money grabbers, how dare they ruin the game like that, I gave them about £40 a few years ago and they'll be losing my custom now"

[Erik Setzer]

I didn't.

And I've got a pulse.

Did you ever at least think it?

I can't imagine how anyone would have believed anything else.

I'm just not a fan of someone patting themselves on the back for guessing the obvious. If I want people to talk up how they're smarter than everyone else because they knew something was coming when anyone else who thought about it for two seconds knew the same, I'd actually listen to Rush Limbaugh and watch Bill O'Reilly (and listen to/watch Sean Hannity, only with the added benefit of changing his position when it suits him).

Better to say "Good job on making sure DA players can keep running their armies (and giving new players access to options other than green Space Marines), GW!" than "I'm smarter than you guys because I said the thing that was obvious!"

Oh, and yeah, good on 'em for doing that, too. Deathwing have been working on me over time, I might take the opportunity to do something with them. I hope they add power-armored Deathwing, but even if they don't, it'll be a decent army to play, and not too expensive to build comparatively. Answer Thunderwolves with Deathwing Knights would be quite amusing.

[Mr Mystery]

Because whilst I do have a certain paranoid streak, it only really comes out at work?

[Houghten]

I hope they add power-armored Deathwing

I don't think you quite grasp the core concept here.

Deathwing fight exclusively in Terminator armour; that's what makes them Deathwing and not just any old First Company.

- - - Updated - - -


"Bundles are useless because there is no advantage to buying them"

GW makes bundles with an advantage

"They're evil money grabbers, how dare they ruin the game like that, I gave them about £40 a few years ago and they'll be losing my custom now"

The advantage we were looking for was never an exclusive datasheet; it was a discount.

[Charon]

that could never happen. No matter how good a release people will find something to complain about. either too soon or not soon enough, either to powerful or too whimpy. it just can't happen.

Actually it can happen. 3 easy steps:

1) Stick with the same design philosophy for all releases in one editons lifetime.
I don't know but that doesn't seem to be a hard one. You can't just start with "ok lets start it slow" then go to "oh wow I have nother couple of cool Ideas for the next one", then move to "ok ok we overdid it... lets strip the nex one down to the basics" and then suddenly go to "oh well... lets just try every crazy **** we can imagine"
Interestingly from a balance PoV I do like the last 3 "wtf" rleases. Necrons, Eldar and Marines. If you put them against each other you really get crazy games with lots of explosions.
The problem comes if you put them against one of the unlucky "back to the basics" rleases. Then it becomes a pretty boring one-sided slaughter.

2) Communicate with your customers and collect feedback.
Yes, there will be ****storms and pointless rants. Every company goes through that. Does not prevent them from asking for feedback on their latest releases. You sort the feedback out and if you find out that a lot of people are concerned about certain things you talk to them and try to clarify things.

3) Update your products on a regular basis.
Rules change over time or new rules get release which somehow interfere with existing rules or some rules were a good idea when the edition started but are now either pointless or have proven to be disrupting and not fun.
Errata, FAQ and updates. Is it really unreasonable or too much to ask for a little bit of clarity after each major release? Updates every 3 months as one of the biggest players in the wagaming industry?
Or hell even updates when editions change for codices that use rules that do no longer exist.

So basically it is pretty simple and not overly expensive, but:


it just can't happen.

[40kGamer]

I don't think even one of those three items will happen anytime soon so I guess whine and cheese it is!

[Path Walker]

GW do get customer service, it's one of the things they get from their retail chain, that way they listen to their customers not moaning Internet arseholes.

[Erik Setzer]

I don't think you quite grasp the core concept here.

Deathwing fight exclusively in Terminator armour; that's what makes them Deathwing and not just any old First Company.

I "grasp core concepts" quite well. They've screwed with the Dark Angels background plenty enough already, and it's hard enough to justify how they're the one chapter - despite having less access to resources and all - that can produce and maintain that many suits of TDA. There are also situations where TDA is not preferable, but neither is sending the less-experienced Marines.

It's easy enough to add the option and explain it in the fluff.

Sure, they probably won't. But it doesn't stop someone from wishing.

Oh, and feel free to leave insulting comments about how much someone "grasps" the concepts of the fluff he's been reading for nearly 30 years at the door. They add nothing to the conversation except unnecessary tension.

[Houghten]

The tension is entirely necessary!

- - - Updated - - -

Non-TDA DA veterans get to be Company Veterans. We have them already. Talk about adding unnecessary stuff...

[Mr Mystery]

Deathwing was released 24 years ago..... just sayin'.

[Erik Setzer]

The tension is entirely necessary!

- - - Updated - - -

Non-TDA DA veterans get to be Company Veterans. We have them already. Talk about adding unnecessary stuff...

Are there "Company Veterans" in the DA codex? I didn't pick up the last one (thankfully).

If they're in there, I'm painting the buggers in bone white armor, because as far as I'm concerned, DA vets are Deathwing, regardless of the armor they wear.

- - - Updated - - -


Deathwing was released 24 years ago..... just sayin'.

Yep, and Caliban was just a recruiting world, not their homeworld, and was attacked by Genestealers, with no mention of a civil war within the Dark Angels.

Just sayin'.

[Cpt Codpiece]

tale of two heads talking was about the fall BTW.

the genestealer invasion was the chaos cult on caliban that tried to free the chaos demon at its core..... which zahariel banished with its true name..... keping the demon handy for later.
the brothers dying on the world is a representation of the fall, and how brother could not trust brother.

it is the way the DA are brought up in the ranks of the order.... i think i may have said too much to a non ordr member.... no doubt lord cypher will be displeased.... i must go... forget you saw me and hope the watchers get you before you spead the word.

[40kGamer]

tale of two heads talking was about the fall BTW.

the genestealer invasion was the chaos cult on caliban that tried to free the chaos demon at its core..... which zahariel banished with its true name..... keping the demon handy for later.
the brothers dying on the world is a representation of the fall, and how brother could not trust brother.

That's definitely how it was rewritten.

[Houghten]

Are there "Company Veterans" in the DA codex? I didn't pick up the last one (thankfully).

If they're in there, I'm painting the buggers in bone white armor, because as far as I'm concerned, DA vets are Deathwing, regardless of the armor they wear.

Yes, they're in the 6th Edition Codex. Aside from points costs, if you've read the 4th Edition Codex, you already know what their options are.

The 6th Edition Codex also introduced Black Knights; the Ravenwing Veterans. I'm curious to see whether you'd paint them bone or black or your brush would just output "403. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/11/episode-610-logic/)"

[Bigred]

via Master Sheol (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-codex-interrogator-chaplain/page-30#entry4089941) 6-16-2015

Dark Angels Codex /Limited Edition Sighted
1462814629


in some of the tidbits is mentioned the following:
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"

and "dark angels are known to attack hard and fast. expect the deathwing to assault on turn 2"

the upcomming WD has(sorry if it isnt 100% translated):
- at the dusk of a new age...
-...we are celebrating warhammer
- new mission: hunt The Fallen

no real leaks yet dear friends. expect them on the following tuesday/wednesday. when i got the book in my hands.

[Power Klawz]

El'jonson, El'jonson
6 foot 8 weighs a ****ing ton
unforgiven beware,
traitor legions beware,
he's coming, he's coming, he's coming...

Let me lay it on the line he had two on the vine
dual redundant ventricles, so divine
on a horse made of metal he patrolled the land,
with his primarch's gifts and power sword and his perfect hands

Here comes Jonson, in control
women dug his honor and his gallant stroll
ate opponents brains and invented cocaine
he's coming, he's coming, he's coming

El'Jonson, El'jonson
6 foot 20 ****ing killing for fun
swam, swam the sea of stars
he's coming, he's coming. he's coming

Sue me if I go to fast but other chapters wish that he was their dad
got a heart for his heart and a black carapace
he'll kick you apart
he'll kick you apart, ooooh!

He'll save children but not heretic children
He'll save children but not heretic children
He'll save children but not heretic children
He'll save children but not heretic children

He had a pistol full of plasma, ****ed the **** out of bears
he threw a knife into The Eye
and could kill with a stair
He made love like an aquila falling out of the sky
killed a sensei in a duel and he never said why

El'Jonson, El'jonson
Twelve stories high made of radiation
The present beware
The future beware
He's coming, he's coming, he's coming

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Love.

[Erik Setzer]

Yes, they're in the 6th Edition Codex. Aside from points costs, if you've read the 4th Edition Codex, you already know what their options are.

The 6th Edition Codex also introduced Black Knights; the Ravenwing Veterans. I'm curious to see whether you'd paint them bone or black or your brush would just output "403. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/11/episode-610-logic/)"

I'd be tempted to try a combination. Predominantly black as they're members of the Ravenwing, but with some bone white to represent being veterans of the chapter.

[Aldavaer]

in some of the tidbits is mentioned the following:
"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"

and "dark angels are known to attack hard and fast. expect the deathwing to assault on turn 2"14635

courtesy of Master Sheol on B&C

Also found over on warseer, the origin looks to be 4chan and came with the codex picture Master Sheol posted to B&C

Also he had the following comments:
-Dark angels get their own discipline.
-the first power is a curse that affects all enemy units within 9" of the psyker. affected units have to roll 3d6 on morale, fear and pinning tests.
-"Dark angels are known for their discipline (even guilliman respects says that) need proof? look at the overwatch fire of a battle demi-company!"
-"dark angels are known to attack hard and fast. expect the deathwing to assault on turn 2"


also one more picture from Warseer
14636

[Aldavaer]

Another addition found on Warseer and B&C not sure who had it first.
14637

Interesting points:
- Unit of whirlwinds so it looks like we will get squadrons
- No Ravenwing knights, do we lose them, are they elsewhere or do they become the standard bikes and replace the old ones as the old bikes are not in the battleforce.
- Generic company master for DW redemption force
- Ravenwing attack bike squad, does this mean we will lose the add to the std bike squads option?

[Path Walker]

Another addition found on Warseer and B&C not sure who had it first.
14637

Interesting points:
- Unit of whirlwinds so it looks like we will get squadrons
- No Ravenwing knights, do we lose them, are they elsewhere or do they become the standard bikes and replace the old ones as the old bikes are not in the battleforce.
- Generic company master for DW redemption force
- Ravenwing attack bike squad, does this mean we will lose the add to the std bike squads option?

No option to replace Assualt/Devs with Centurions so special chapters not getting them, could have guessed that from BAs and SWs though

[Erik Setzer]

No Ravenwing knights, do we lose them, are they elsewhere or do they become the standard bikes and replace the old ones as the old bikes are not in the battleforce.

Rumors have said there'd be three of these type of formations: Demi-Company (basic Tactical Company), Deathwing, and Ravenwing. It's quite possible they're restricting Ravenwing Knights to the Ravenwing formation.

[Mr Mystery]

Wonder if they'll soup up the fliers any?

Nice models, rules weren't quite the full shilling.

[Aldavaer]

Rumors have said there'd be three of these type of formations: Demi-Company (basic Tactical Company), Deathwing, and Ravenwing. It's quite possible they're restricting Ravenwing Knights to the Ravenwing formation.

On balance that would be the most probable option at this point in time.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Love that codex cover! Previous one was well done, but a bit bland I thought - this looks a lot better I feel.

[Bigred]

via gamestrust.de (http://www.gamestrust.de/bilder,list1221,1,warhammer-40-000-dark-angels.html) 6-17-2015


New Dark Angel pics:
146421464314644

[Cap'nSmurfs]

See? I told you they'd get custom detachments. Oh ye of little faith!

[Patrick Boyle]

We haven't seen any proof yet that there's a Core other than the Demi-Company, so no way to actually field a Deathwing or Ravenwing specific detachment yet.

What are those models behind the scouts in the third photo? Are they old scouts or something?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Very old ones, I think. Looks like someone's personal collection.

EDIT: Yes, that's Adam Troke's army, I recognize his command models.

There'll be a way to do Deathwing and Ravenwing, don't fret.

Notice the veterans have Grav weapons? Dark Angels are getting Grav weapons.

[Charon]

We haven't seen any proof yet that there's a Core other than the Demi-Company, so no way to actually field a Deathwing or Ravenwing specific detachment yet.



Don't think so. The Eldar codex has all 3 Cores listed the core entry, this one has not.
Also there are Deathwing and Ravenwing specific formations which contain an awful lot of points (like Eldar Wraithost to make up a Iyanden army). I guess it will be one of those if you intend to play pure Death/Ravenwing.

[eosgreen]

deathwing "all models are in terminator armor". wonder if the librarians/chaplains must be in terminator armor. doesnt say here but obviously this isn't the all of the rules just some formations

[Dalleron]

I hope they made the fliers better, otherwise i don't see anyone taking that formation.

Also, don't see black knights on that formation page anymore, other than command squad perhaps. Also notice a lack of Thunderfire cannon for those who were hoping for one.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

White Dwarf apparently mentions both Ravenwing and Deathwing detachments twice, so that's where you'll find yer Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Black Knights. Assuming that information is accurate.

[Charon]

Picture says they are in the Deathwing redemtion force detachment. But this is not core to the whole decurion

[Ravingbantha]

I see grav weapons on the vets.

[Charistoph]

We haven't seen any proof yet that there's a Core other than the Demi-Company, so no way to actually field a Deathwing or Ravenwing specific detachment yet.

Deathwing Redemption Force looks like a Formation, too big to be just a unit. Can't tell with the Ravenwing Attack Force, though. That could just be a Unit Choice like Necron Deathmarks, or it is no longer a unit and a Formation on its own.


Don't think so. The Eldar codex has all 3 Cores listed the core entry, this one has not.

Yeah, maybe. Codex Marines just have the Demi-Company as a Core Choice, even though one of the Chapter Tactics can't take as much advantage of it as the others.


Picture says they are in the Deathwing redemtion force detachment. But this is not core to the whole decurion

Nope, it is showing up as an Auxiliary. That doesn't mean it isn't a Formation, though. In fact, it looks too big to be just a unit. So, as a Formation, it can be taken independent of the "DAngel Gladius".


I see grav weapons on the vets.

I noticed that, too. So if it is there, odds are the Green Marines will have them, too.

Something for BAngels to be jealous over the DAngels with.

[Charon]

Nope, it is showing up as an Auxiliary. That doesn't mean it isn't a Formation, though. In fact, it looks too big to be just a unit. So, as a Formation, it can be taken independent of the "DAngel Gladius".

I'm pretty sure it is a formation but it is no core. And if you "only" take the formation you do not get the overall benefit of the "DA Gladius".
It is like the Wraithhost in the Eldar army. You can build a construct army if you use it but you wont get the benefit of beeing counted as a single detachment with the benefits of the warhost.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Until we get a spread of all the relevant pages from the Codex we're just going off a white dwarf illustrative picture and a couple of sentences, guys.

[Mr Mystery]

Until we get a spread of all the relevant pages from the Codex we're just going off a white dwarf illustrative picture and a couple of sentences, guys.

This.

Who knows what else lurks within the Codex?

[musical-fool]

This.

Who knows what else lurks within the Codex?

Or within the rock...

[AdamHarry]

via Terminus Est (http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2015/06/dark-angels-real-deal.html) 6-20-2015



DW knights got even better with ap3 maces rather than ap4? Middle finger to any other space marine player.

Deathwing rule replaces Inner Circle, grants Fearless and Hatred (CSM).

DW Knights maces of absolution now AP3, Smite is now basically a Smash attack: trade all attacks for one Sx2 AP2 attack, chosen per model, not limited use.

DW Assault is a formation rule, everything Deep Strikes in on choice of turn 2, 3, or 4 - includes Ven Dreads in Pods.

Summoned to War is a detachment rule, all units in detachment must start in Deep Strike reserve, if army has a RW Attack Squadron or Strike Force you basically choose the results of Reserve Rolls for the detachment.

Summon the DW: Formation rule, models in the formation are basically 12" teleport homers for DW units.

Ravenwing rule allows models to reroll failed Jink saves.

Speed of the Raven detachment rule: On first tirn (or second if units in reserves), units that turbo-boost or Flat Out count as Jinking but aren't forced to Snap Shot the following turn.

Ravenwing grenade launcher radshell is no longer -1T but the to-wound of 6 causes two wounds.

Sammael in Sabreclaw gets a D3+1 S4 AP2 hits sweep attack.

Land Speeder Vengeance plasma battery is now 36".

Dark Shroud's Icon of Old Caliban is Fear and Stealth to DA units within 6" and no prevents Overwatch when those units start the Assault phase with 6" of it.



and also the Psychic Powers


Psychic Powers:

Primaris - Mind Worm - WC1 focussed witch fire, 12" S6 AP2 Assault 1, Ignores Cover, if model takes an unsaved wound then -3 BS/WS/I/Ld for rest of game

1 - Seed of Fear - WC1 Maledication affecting all enemy units within 9", they take Morale, Pinning, and Fear on 3d6

2 - Righteous Repugnance - WC1 Blessing 24" grants unit Rage

3 - Aversion - WC1 Malediction 24" unit may only fire Snap Shots

4 - Malestrom of Misery - WC2 witchfire 24" S1 AP2 Assault 1 Blast always wounds on 4+

5 - Trephination - WC2 18" focussed witchfire - affected model rolls 2d6+2-Ld and takes that many wounds with no armor or cover saves

6 - Mind Wipe - WC3 24" malediction - target unit is WS1/BS1 until end of their next turn, when they have to take a Ld test, if failed effect is permanent


1477014771

[Steven Palmer]

Full overwatch at BS.....Well those grav devs aren't going anywhere , specially with free pods for all O_O

[Houghten]

Rather amusing that Deathwing won't benefit from Supreme Fire Discipline (assuming they swap Grim Resolve for Inner Circle as per the current Codex).

Swapping Chaos Bane for a permanent AP3 makes sense (Chaos players really didn't need to get further punished for no reason) but I dunno about the new Smite when you could just take a unit of Deathwing Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields and get the Sx2 AP2 on all the attacks.

Shame about rad grenades but also makes sense to drag them in line with Mechanicum rad weapons.

I wonder if Sableclaw is now a Chariot?

Hurray for the return of the Ravenwing Jink!

Equal hurray for the plasma battery getting boosted up to the range of a plasma cannon!

[Djbz]

"Sammael in Sableclaw gets a D3+1 S4 AP2 hits sweep attack. "

This one seems a bit weird to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to make Sableclaw a Chariot?
The rules exist (Chariot rules are a tad dodgy in my opinion-but they exist) for a reason.

[Mr Mystery]

Sounds like DA got some proper loving this time around.

[Defenestratus]

Sounds like DA got some proper loving this time around.

I'll say.

Their new formation "so good you have to buy more models to get it" rule is just as good as the Eldar Warhost and SM ones.

Pretty nifty for DA. Glad they finally give pride to their players again.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I feel like I've made a Good Decision, yeah.

[Mr Mystery]

Should check in on Brother Bunghole, see if he's remembered to start flogging off our massive collection of Dark Angels.

[Bigred]

Via Spikey Bits Reader a true son of The Lion (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21907-New-Space-Marine-Codex-Rumor-Roundup/page2) 6-22-2015


Grim Resolve now gives stubborn and bs2 overwatch.

Inner Circle replaced by Deathwing rule. Grants Fearless and Hatred (Chaos Space Marines)

Azrael is now LoW. Gives his 4++ to any transport he's in. Adds +1 to any seize the
initiative rolls. No longer counts Ravenwing or Deathwing as troops

Sammael on Corvex can now fire both weapons. Sammael on Sableclaw can now vector strike,
D3+1 str 4 ap 2 hits.

Belial gained an attack. Lost precision shots. Now reroll hits in challenges. No longer
takes Deathwing as troops.

Ezekiel now just has a master crafted force sword. No longer stuck with Mind Worm.

Asmodai grants D3 victory points if he slays the enemy warlord in a challenge.

They lost the Power Field Generator, but Azrael gives helm saves in a vehicle, that's cool!

[ChaosPhoenix]

That's not correct. Belial hasn't lost precision shots. He has precision shots and ignores cover through his warlord trait The Hunt.

[Timotheus]

Codex leaks in german: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015/?p=4097448

...and the formations: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015/?p=4097486

[ChaosPhoenix]

Codex leaks in german: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015/?p=4097448

...and the formations: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303857-rumours-dark-angels-2015/?p=4097486

I'm german so if anyone needs something specific translated, just ask. I'm at work, so I can't translate everything at once ^^.

[Defenestratus]

Azrael is now LoW. Gives his 4++ to any transport he's in. Adds +1 to any seize the
initiative rolls. No longer counts Ravenwing or Deathwing as troops
Belial gained an attack. Now reroll hits in challenges. No longer
takes Deathwing as troops.


Calling out the people who said "They'll never take troop status away from Deathwing terminators EVER!!!!"

[Haighus]

They got a formation instead, which is what I expected.

[Path Walker]

Detachments and Formations have really removed the need for it, i was disapointed to see they wimped out when it came to Space Marine bikers, instead of making a Formation

[Erik Setzer]

They got a formation instead, which is what I expected.

Basically the thing they're doing with all of them. Space Marine Bikes were a surprising change from them going that direction, and I still can't figure that one out, especially as you can put a Techmarine on a bike and then get Bikes as Troops.

[Muninwing]

Calling out the people who said "They'll never take troop status away from Deathwing terminators EVER!!!!"

do we know for a fact that they have removed Deathwing/Ravenwing troops?

hear me out...

it's not in the formation rules. but what if it doesn't need to be?

in the C:SM, it lists the "turn bikers to troops" rule where? it's not in a detachment, but in the Bike unit description.

i have not seen the entry for the DW/RW squads... do they have the ability listed there?

i could be wrong, as i have not seen the entries (or even the description of bikes in their wargear section, where it my also be). but it's not safe to assume that bikes/terminators would lose ObSec just because they didn't grant it where it would make the most sense to look for it.

this is, after all GW we're talking about here.

[40kGamer]

It looks like Deathwing lost the first turn deep strike as well.

[Bigred]

Via a true son of The Lion (http://forum.spikeybits.com/showthread.php?21907-New-Space-Marine-Codex-Rumor-Roundup/page2) 6-22-2015


Battle Demi Company

is a Company Master/Chaplain, 3 tac squads, 1 assault squad, 1 Devastator squad, with 0-1 options for Veterans, Command Squad, and Dreadnoughts. Grants all models with grim resolve BS3 overwatch. If taken as part of the Lions Blade, that goes up to full bs overwatch. If two Battle Demi companies are taken in the Lions Blade, all transports are free.



Ravenwing Support Squad:

3 Land Speeders and either a Darkshroud or Vengeance. They gain grim resolve, interceptor, and strafing run.

Grants the Ravenshield. Any Ravenwing unit that is within 24" of this formation who is charged, this formation gets to overwatch them even though vehicles normally can't overwatch. Wall of death can only be used if the speeders are within 6 inches of the friendly unit.


Ravenwing Attack Squadron:

Either a bike squad or attack bike squad, and either 1 speeder or a vengeance.

Attack Squadron: If the speeder or Vengeance scores a hit against their target, the bikes bikes from this formation have +1 bs when firing at the same target.

Summon the Deathwing: Deep striking Deathwing models don't scatter if placed within 12" of this formation. Formation must have started the turn on the board for this to take effect.



Almost forgot a formation. And I figured people want to see it since the bundle is for sale.



Ravenwing Silence Squadron

2 Nephilims and a Dark Talon. They come on as a single unit, no need for separate reserve rolls.

The stasis bomb won't scatter, and causes a 2d6 initiative test picking the highest. If the warlord is slain in this way, you immediately gain D3 victory points. That rule is called capture run. (In order for the stasis bomb to trigger an initiative test you have to cause an unsaved wound. And it's str 4 ap 5).

There are other formations but they seem to be like the boring space marine formations.



Deathwing Redemption Force

And there is a Deathwing formation also. Grants Deathwing Assault on turns 2 3 or 4. And the turn they arrive the basically get battle focus (run then shoot or shoot then run).

Requirements are Belial or just about any other terminator HQ, and 2 terminator squads.

Sad news, Deathwing Assault is no longer a 'special rule' or on turn one, is now restricted to the formation, and occurs on turns 2,3,4.

[interrogator_chaplain]

For all my fellow Dark Angels players, I made this:
http://i.imgur.com/2PaqPii.jpg

[Houghten]

If Deathwing Assault is now a Formation rule, I wonder if the cost of the models dropped to be in line with vanilla Terminators?

[Aldavaer]

The new deathwing formation appears to have a problem unless there is something we haven't seen. A pure DW force will be an auto lose.

Everything in the DW formation has to start in reserve and cannot deep strike until turn 2, therefore you have nothing on the table at the end of turn 1, and according to the basic rule book you lose.

[Mr Mystery]

Seems that way from the rumours we have - assuming they give a complete picture.

[Jared van Kell]

I like the new detachments and formations. The great thing about it is that it allows you to field a very diverse force that has some great rules. The question I ask is do the tactical squads, assault squads and devastator squads get the Codex Astartes rule where they get the doctrines like the Vanilla marines do or is that purely reserved for the Codex Spacemarines chapters.

JvK :cool:

[Path Walker]

I like the new detachments and formations. The great thing about it is that it allows you to field a very diverse force that has some great rules. The question I ask is do the tactical squads, assault squads and devastator squads get the Codex Astartes rule where they get the doctrines like the Vanilla marines do or is that purely reserved for the Codex Spacemarines chapters.

JvK :cool:

Units with the Chapter Tactics rules get them, Dark Angels have their own special rules instead.

[daboarder]

The new deathwing formation appears to have a problem unless there is something we haven't seen. A pure DW force will be an auto lose.

Everything in the DW formation has to start in reserve and cannot deep strike until turn 2, therefore you have nothing on the table at the end of turn 1, and according to the basic rule book you lose.

SHHHH The game is about the narrative and matching the background, no dont ask how eliminating deathwing only forces matches the background, justifying that stupidity is mysteries job

[Erik Setzer]

The new deathwing formation appears to have a problem unless there is something we haven't seen. A pure DW force will be an auto lose.

Everything in the DW formation has to start in reserve and cannot deep strike until turn 2, therefore you have nothing on the table at the end of turn 1, and according to the basic rule book you lose.

On the front page they have a Deathwing detachment:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/dark-angel-formation-unveiled.html

Since that's not limited to Terminator Squads, it's not "auto-lose." But it definitely means protecting what's on the table.

Also, given the rule about a Ravenwing formation giving auto succeed/fail on reserve rolls for the detachment, I think they're aiming toward combined arms forces.

Does seem a bit odd to not at least give them something like Drop Pod Assault, where half come in on the first turn. They're veterans who know how to teleport in for an assault, you'd think they could do that as well as, if not better than, Tactical Marines in a vehicle that has to drop through the atmosphere.

[Jared van Kell]

The new deathwing formation appears to have a problem unless there is something we haven't seen. A pure DW force will be an auto lose.

Everything in the DW formation has to start in reserve and cannot deep strike until turn 2, therefore you have nothing on the table at the end of turn 1, and according to the basic rule book you lose.

It is still possible to do the Deathwing by having half the force taken as part of the Deathwing Strike Force Detachment and the remainder as the formation. Even the most firepower heavy armies will struggle to take out 2-3 Deathwing terminator squads in a single turn, meaning you can be confident of having the formation deep strike in turn 2.

JvK :cool:

[Halfbreed]

Really disappointed that Azrael doesn't have Eternal Warrior or an AP2 Mele weapon. I really like running Azrael but he just can't do what a Lord of War needs to do, kick butt in mele and be durable.

Having a 50/50 chance of dying from one power fist or thunder hammer is not good times. And if he runs into anything with 2up armor if he is lucky he will do one wound.

[Halfbreed]

Really disappointed that Azrael doesn't have Eternal Warrior or an AP2 mele weapon.

If he is lucky he will do one wound to anything with a 2up armor, and if he gets wounded by a Thunder hammer or Power Fist he has a 50/50 chance of getting turned to red paste.

Dante, Marneus Calgar, Kaldor Draigo, and Logan Grimnar will take him out every time 1v1.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Or play a mission which allows a first-turn Deep Strike, of which there's a few out there. (Or just write your own).

[Aldavaer]

There are ways to do it by adding the detachment or other units. From what we have seen so far the emphasis in the codex is more towards the synergy between the wings.

[Houghten]

On the front page they have a Deathwing detachment:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/dark-angel-formation-unveiled.html

Since that's not limited to Terminator Squads, it's not "auto-lose." But it definitely means protecting what's on the table.

No, read it again. All units in the Detachment must begin the game in Deep Strike Reserve.


It is still possible to do the Deathwing by having half the force taken as part of the Deathwing Strike Force Detachment and the remainder as the formation. Even the most firepower heavy armies will struggle to take out 2-3 Deathwing terminator squads in a single turn, meaning you can be confident of having the formation deep strike in turn 2.
Well, except for the part where you can't start the Detachment on the table.


Fortunately for me, I do combo Deathwing-Ravenwing. Imagine scouting out a heretic force on your bike. Now imagine dropping a whole bunch of Terminators on it simultaneously. That is how a Dark Angel do.

[Erik Setzer]

No, read it again. All units in the Detachment must begin the game in Deep Strike Reserve.

Can't see it at work, so I'll have to check later. The image, IIRC, shows Dreadnoughts, which makes sense, as they're Elites. Ditto Veterans. So you're required to buy Drop Pods for them?

[Power Klawz]

I thought there was another deathwing type detachment with slightly different rules. Not the one where everything has to deep strike, but another one.

The "article" on the BoLS frontpage definitely mentions 2 separate organizations by name. Deathwing Strike Force and Deathwing Redemption force. It only has a codex pic for one (the strike force, where all the units have to deep strike) it then goes on to describe a "redemtpion force" but by that descriptions it is indistinguishable from the strike force. I assume its misstated, but still no clear definition of the redemption force.

Also, there's some funny wording in the strike force. It says everything has to have the deathwing special rule OR be a dedicated transport. I believe that you can take land raiders as dedicated transports for deathwing units. It then goes on to say that every model has to begin the game in "deep strike reserve" which is a term I'm not totally familiar with. I though units started in reserve and then were deployed from reserves according to their special rules, I didn't know there was a special kind of reserve for deep striking units only, also I wasn't aware that DA had deep striking land raiders, thought that was only a BA thing. So the rules conflict inherent would seem to be that you can take Land Raiders, but can never deploy them? Or does it make them deep strike capable? Am I missing something important here?

[Houghten]

Can't see it at work, so I'll have to check later. The image, IIRC, shows Dreadnoughts, which makes sense, as they're Elites. Ditto Veterans. So you're required to buy Drop Pods for them?
I don't see any Veterans, only Chaos Marines getting smacked (since Company Veterans almost certainly lack the Deathwing special rule, they won't be eligible to join the formation). And yes, the Restrictions include that units of Venerable Dreadnoughts must consist of one model which must be given a Drop Pod as a Dedicated Transport.

[eosgreen]

I thought there was another deathwing type detachment with slightly different rules. Not the one where everything has to deep strike, but another one.

The "article" on the BoLS frontpage definitely mentions 2 separate organizations by name. Deathwing Strike Force and Deathwing Redemption force. It only has a codex pic for one (the strike force, where all the units have to deep strike) it then goes on to describe a "redemtpion force" but by that descriptions it is indistinguishable from the strike force. I assume its misstated, but still no clear definition of the redemption force.

Also, there's some funny wording in the strike force. It says everything has to have the deathwing special rule OR be a dedicated transport. I believe that you can take land raiders as dedicated transports for deathwing units. It then goes on to say that every model has to begin the game in "deep strike reserve" which is a term I'm not totally familiar with. I though units started in reserve and then were deployed from reserves according to their special rules, I didn't know there was a special kind of reserve for deep striking units only, also I wasn't aware that DA had deep striking land raiders, thought that was only a BA thing. So the rules conflict inherent would seem to be that you can take Land Raiders, but can never deploy them? Or does it make them deep strike capable? Am I missing something important here?

yes im also worried land raiders wont be able to be taken though isnt there technically two formations? the generic one and the deathwing one? again i HOPE this wont be it...

[Al Shut]

The "article" on the BoLS frontpage definitely mentions 2 separate organizations by name. Deathwing Strike Force and Deathwing Redemption force. It only has a codex pic for one (the strike force, where all the units have to deep strike) it then goes on to describe a "redemtpion force" but by that descriptions it is indistinguishable from the strike force. I assume its misstated, but still no clear definition of the redemption force.

The Redemption Force is a formation, the Strike Force an detachment. Both have rules that say all units must start in deep strike reserve. That term, I believe, means you announce the deep striking when you place the units in reserve.

[eosgreen]

idk bout u nerds but im playin deathwing regardless. i wana know tho about this whole "counts as deathwing" for models in power armor

[Charon]

Gw rule writing as its finest.
Ravenwing detachment -> 3 HQ slots.
Lets you reroll warlord trait.
Restriction: Only models with the Ravenwing rule.

The only character with the ravenwing rule is sammael who has a set warlord trait and is unique.