Nova powers can be used in Close combat it is a nova not a witchfire type

[Xaric]

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including flyers and flying monstrous creatures) within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on Otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapon. Only one unit that is within the power's maximum range can attempt to deny the witch.

Now I read the category of witchfire and most of the stuff in nova make the rules to witchfire contradicted for one it said the target point as for nova they auto hit regardless of line of sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain and so on Otherwise also at the bottom it said use the rules for the subtype if it has it in its profile so the power sunburst clearly state's its a Nova not a witchfire so you would follow the nova sub-type category rather then the witchfire rule.

So basically sub-type (nova) > main type (witchfire)

Now where it says treat it like a shooting attack its just stating use the rules as you would when shooting basically like how a flame template works because it automatically hits.

Also think of it this way with say wizards that cast nova's in films or games they are always in the thick of the battle when they cast a nova power also the factor most nova ability's are 6" range.

[Sly]

Uh, Novas are a subtype of Witchfire. That means that they are Witchfires. So you cannot "shoot" them when YOU are engaged in CC, because you cannot shoot weapons in CC that do not have the CC weapon type.

What it means when it says "regardless of being in close combat" is that if you go next to a unit that is locked in assault and fire a Nova, that unit can be hit by the Nova even though you normally can't target units locked in assault.

[Lord Krungharr]

It's a type of Witchfire, doesn't matter that Nova powers have different rules for how they're resolved, they're Witchfires, thus cannot be cast by a unit locked in close combat. The targeting of units in close combat is nice though.

Molten Beam is a beam, so can psykers cast that out of close combat? I don't think so, again, it's a type of Witchfire as described in the psychic power rules. Just because the power description itself doesn't spell out Witchfire/Beam doesn't mean we can ignore other pages full of paragraphs.

[daboarder]

all Nova's are witchfire

Not all witchfires are Nova.

[Xaric]

It's a type of Witchfire, doesn't matter that Nova powers have different rules for how they're resolved, they're Witchfires, thus cannot be cast by a unit locked in close combat. The targeting of units in close combat is nice though.

Molten Beam is a beam, so can psykers cast that out of close combat? I don't think so, again, it's a type of Witchfire as described in the psychic power rules. Just because the power description itself doesn't spell out Witchfire/Beam doesn't mean we can ignore other pages full of paragraphs.

It clearly states it cant be used in combat as it said cannot be drawn over any unit that is locked in combat.

[Xaric]

at the bottom of page 27

There are several different sub-types of witchfire each applying slightly different targeting restrictions. if the witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it.

That clearly meens follow the 2 paragraph's in witchfire about it

If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that sub-type.

Clearly stating if it comes with that sub-type use that sub-types rule.

Nova in bold A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic power's maximum range the part where it said "treat Like a shooting attack" means wound allocations as killing in cc is done differently then killing at range you take the models closet away from the one using the power.

Also where does it state you cant use the ability wile manifesting it the olny restriction it clearly saids in manifesting powers page 24 is about how you cant use the same power in the same unit more then once.

Also Blessings and malediction have 1 type so no need for subtypes wile witchfire has 4 subtypes there is a similar thing that they have done this before.

The big rule book is always trumped by the codex when two rules conflict it looks to say that the same applies here the core type is trumped by the sub-type

Now looking to the other subtypes beam clearly states cant be drawn over anyone locked in combat so if your locked in combat then you would not be able to use it wile in combat because you would be braking that rule. Focussed witchfire clearly said they follow all the normal rules for witchfire stating follow the two paragraph's from the witchfire part but Nova power has no mentioning of following the witchfire rule but it does clearly state its restrictions and what is allowed.

[DarkLink]

Novas are a type of witchfire. Witchfires cannot be used in combat. End of story, no matter how much you want to try and weasel around that.

[Xaric]

Novas are a type of witchfire. Witchfires cannot be used in combat. End of story, no matter how much you want to try and weasel around that.

well the rule for nova saids otherwise no one is trying and weasel around anything I am just stating that this set of guidelines clearly stated in the book that it contradicts a part of rules given over its own type and it does clearly state regardless of line of site, being locked in combat intervening models/terrain and so on.

Or you would have to disallow the use of these powers because they would go against some if not all the rules in the two paragraph's under witchfire as I said before anything with a range attached to it is normally a shooting attack because you cant really class a melee attack if you throw a weapon can you.

Also it clearly states on the bottom paragraph page 27 There are several different sub-types of witchfire each applying slightly different targeting restrictions. If the witchfire does not list a sub-type, or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack use the rules given above to resolve it. If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that sub-type

It clearly said in black and white if it has a sub-type use those rules meaning the rules in the witchfire part is if there is uncertainty just like how power weapons work if it is a power weapon without a weapon type

You really need to stop
1) thinking this is the older editions this is 7th edition the new rules are now the main rules and all the old rules that they used to be are obsolete and no long valid for warhammer 40k in this edition unless they remain unchanged in the 7th edition rule book.
2) stop claiming that others are as you put it trying to bend the rules to there favour by saying "try and weasel around that" its childish when the information is there many things got changed in 7th edition in the special rule section I still get people claiming my nurgle daemons cant use defensive grenades because its not in there wargear but it clearly said in the rule book they are classed as having defensive grenades as to the new means that they can now throw it. This is because somehow people believed that if its not on the wargear it does not count as it can take those rules.

[Captain Bubonicus]

Our logic is worthless against his spurious arguments and rambling walls of text! Flee for your lives!

[Xaric]

Our logic is worthless against his spurious arguments and rambling walls of text! Flee for your lives!

Your logic? all I see is childish criticism with zero evidence of what you say... at least the wall of text I provide has evidence that nova's do not follow the witchfire parts rules but rather its own set of guidelines but sure if you wish to play the game your own way be my guest :)

[Xaric]

btw it also said treat like a shooting attack not as a shooting attack those two words can change the context of a action

the word Like : Like a shooting attack is implying it follows the same ruling but is not quite basically supplementing it so they don't have to copy and paste the word but rather just redirect you to a rule that currently exists.

the word As a : As a shooting attack would imply it is a shooting attack and it is to follow all the rules of shooting in the rule section but this would be contradicting to the current guidelines of how nova's work stated in the rulebook.

[DarkLink]

Your logic? all I see is childish criticism with zero evidence of what you say... at least the wall of text I provide has evidence that nova's do not follow the witchfire parts rules but rather its own set of guidelines but sure if you wish to play the game your own way be my guest :)

Not evidence, just randomly bolded snippets of "logic" and claims that anyone who disagrees with you is childish. And while you at least kind of vaguely mention the rules, you only mention sections taken out of context in order to support your argument while never actually quoting anything,

[Xaric]

vaguely mentioning the rules? okay you clearly a funny little boy/girl vaguely means partly what I put as the subject matter was about nova's and pretty much what I put in the subject matter was the section of the rules from the rule book to back my claim clearly you don't know what vague even means...

I bolded it because it clearly was intended to try and help you with key wording in the subject matter but clearly that does not get past your stubborn attitude that apparently if someone opposes your logic you must throw childish remarks as before. If you want to input some critical evidence regarding why I am wrong please apply the following.

The page and document and context of the restrictions that is against what I say if not then you come off no more then a ignoramus with no evidence to back your claim to why I am wrong.

[Captain Bubonicus]

No matter how much inane verbal tap-dancing you do, you just can't get around this simple, clear rule:

Witchfire: Witchfire powers are shooting attacks...Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the target unit (or target point) and cannot be locked in combat if he wishes to manifest a witchfire power.

There are several different sub-types of witchfire, each applying slightly different target restrictions...If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that sub-type.

Nova

[DarkLink]

BRB, page 27:


Witchfire
Witchfire powers are shooting attacks. Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks, and many have profiles imilar to ranged weapons. Just like when shooting a weapon, a Psyker must be able to see the target unit (or a target point) and cannot be locked in combat if he wishes to manifest a witchfire power.

The general witchfire rules restrict you from casting them in combat.


Nova
A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units... Otherwise, a nova is treated list a shooting attack...

The nova rules contain a comprehensive list in the ways in which a nova power differs from general witchfires. Mainly, you automatically hit everything in range, even if the target is outside of LOS and whatnot. There is absolutely nothing to lift the general restriction on not being able to use the witchfire while the user is locked in close combat. There is absolutely nothing in the nova power rules that gives you permission to cast the power while locked in combat, and there are several restrictions stating that you cannot do so. The rules on this are crystal clear. You cannot cast novas out of combat.

[LCS]

Oh god, is this going to turn into another argument where one person tries to debate the meaning of the word 'like' against all logic and reason?

[daboarder]

probably