New Space Marine Codex Rumor Roundup

[Houghten]

I couldn't even give mine away.

[Kirsten]

should have put them on ebay, you would have been rich

[40kGamer]

Definitely. Multimeltas were high demand in some communities. I remember when the Logan bomb was a thing in the last SW book. Rounding up 5 of them for a squad of Longfangs was a lot of work!

[Erik Setzer]

I didn't buy any of the current version of Dev boxes because I didn't need them, so I went with what it sounded like other people were complaining about (didn't know it was just one MM). My dad built a Marine army he didn't have to move much (arthritis and all), especially with 4th edition letting you build an army with six Dev Squads, so he had something like eight lascannons, four plasma cannons, nine missile launchers, six heavy bolters, just in the assembled stuff, with a bunch in a box that never got assembled because I didn't need them and didn't like messing with the old metal/plastic hybrids that much... though I did use some of them to make Long Fangs.

I like multi-meltas, but they'd be more useful with the concept of a Marine army I was going to make in 4th but became unfeasible later: an army of Marines with close-range weapons and Infiltrate (the two Chapter Tactics giving Infiltrate and allowing two special weapons in a squad were my preference). Still useful if I can get a bunch of Rhinos.

If you want four grav-cannons and the box has two of everything, why not just get two boxes? Then take spare Marines (or buy a Tactical Squad or two) and assemble all the other weapons, and multiple Sergeants, and you have four or more Dev Squads, each with four of the same heavy weapon. Assuming the box is $50, that's $140 for 20 heavy weapon guys, which seems about fair.

[Bigred]

Via Warseer's Sinsigel (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409276-Space-Marines-Codex-Rumours-MKII&p=7461011&viewfull=1#post7461011) 6-5-2015

" I apologise if I'm uploading info that has already been posted.
FLGS nearby started showing SM codex for preview.
I simply skimmed through the codex so there will be many gaps and slightly inaccurate parts.
Points costs will not be posted.

Chapter Tactics still remain, although every one of them has been 'buffed'.
White Scars for example all get hit & run whether the model has bulky rule or not.
Combat Doctrines only gives to-hit rolls.

Devastators do not have Slow and Purposeful.
They do get a wargear allowing the squad to re-roll failed to hits for a single shooting phase.
Tactical squad can carry grav cannon & amp, although it's almost twice as expensive as lascannon.

Vanguards get bonus to charge distance, while Ironclad & Venerable dreadnoughts get 4 attacks minimum.
Assault centurions' siege drill now strikes at S10
Legion of the Damned is still in the codex, and it's DS ability has been slightly buffed.

Most vehicles, if taken in squadron of three, gain significant buff.
Multiple Stalkers(now with interceptor) can ignore cover, where as three vindicators can instead fire a single shot with apocalyptic blast which ignores cover.

That's all I can recall with any degree of clarity."

[Defenestratus]

Via Warseer's Sinsigel (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409276-Space-Marines-Codex-Rumours-MKII&p=7461011&viewfull=1#post7461011) 6-5-2015

That Crimson Hunter formation was fun while it lasted :D

/sarc

[40kGamer]

That Crimson Hunter formation was fun while it lasted :D

/sarc

Crimson what? :p

[daboarder]

It's coming to stores.

Trust me on this one.

Why? You are very rarely accurate on your bold statements about which rumours GW will never do.

[Mr Mystery]

pre-orders are up (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Devastator-Squad-2015)

Is it just me, or are the multimeltas now held a bit lower?

[Kirsten]

do your meltas hang low, do they wobble to and fro?

[Mr Mystery]

I can't tie them in a knot, but I can tie them in a bow.

[Kirsten]

the multi meltas look slightly smaller to me, allowing the more aiming pose of the arms

[Wildeybeast]

I'm thinking a output grabbing the limited edition codex but I'm wondering about whether it's actually worth it. I know you get the alternate artwork, the tokens and cards, but do you get any extra content in the books? Can Anyone who has bought one before advise me?

[Houghten]

The books are the same, page-for-page. You're paying £65 extra for the accessories.

[Erik Setzer]

Still using basic torsos. Cool. Means I can grab a couple boxes of these, a Tactical Squad or two, and have six Devastator Squads with four weapons each.

[Wildeybeast]

The books are the same, page-for-page. You're paying £65 extra for the accessories.

Thanks. Much as I love special editions, that does not seem to represent especially good value for money, so I don't think I'll bother.

[Path Walker]

Cards and Book are £42.50 so its just £57.50 for the accessories, if that helps

[RGilbert26]

Two Devastator boxes and two Tactical Squad boxes makes 6 Devastator Squads.

[AdamHarry]

via Forge the Narrative (Facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative/photos/pcb.364464597077648/364464197077688/?type=1&theater)6-6-2015

14476

Newest Lysander info - I hope he still swinging the Fist of Dorn at Str 10! Still packing 4 wounds, Eternal Warrior and his +2/++3.

[Houghten]

Cards and Book are £42.50 so its just £57.50 for the accessories, if that helps

Ehhh... only mostly. The cards in the Limited Edition are only the objective cards, no sign of the Tactics ones. So if you wanted those you'd still be paying £7.50 for them...

[blueshift]

via Forge the Narrative (Facebook) (https://www.facebook.com/ForgeTheNarrative/photos/pcb.364464597077648/364464197077688/?type=1&theater)6-6-2015


Newest Lysander info - I hope he still swinging the Fist of Dorn at Str 10! Still packing 4 wounds, Eternal Warrior and his +2/++3.

ohhh, so Lysander is in the new Space Marine codex!

[Charistoph]

ohhh, so Lysander is in the new Space Marine codex!

Not that big of a surprise, he's been in the last few, just like the Big Ultramarine, and he's the iconic Imperial Fist Character.

[packard57]

Looking at the info on the Games Workshop site concerning the new codexes there seems to be an anomaly. The standard codex has 200 pages while the limited ones only have 160 . I wonder if the extra book suppliedd with the special editions contains the missing 40 pages ?

[Charon]

Paint guide most probably.

[Brakkart]

Looking at the info on the Games Workshop site concerning the new codexes there seems to be an anomaly. The standard codex has 200 pages while the limited ones only have 160 . I wonder if the extra book suppliedd with the special editions contains the missing 40 pages ?

Huh hadn't noticed that before. Bit concerned now as I have ordered the Ltd Imperial Fist one and not keen for it to be missing 20% of the book. the other book that comes with it is described as:

104 page softback booklet with a collection of Successor Chapter line drawings.

EDIT: I emailed GW Customer Service about this and this is the reply I got back:


Hi Robert

Thanks for your mail.

This is a mistake in the web text - the Codex has 200 pages.

It will be updated today.

I am sorry for any confusion caused.

Kind regards
Gemma

So that's a relief.

[energongoodie]

Still no Iron hands character :(
Why not GW? What did they do to be the only first Founding chapter without one?
As of this coming Saturday I can't even use the Clan Raukann supplement :(

[Bigred]

Via Leman Russ SW (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308934-new-codex-space-marine-thread/page-132#entry4076525) on Bolter & Chainsword


(Raw Transcript from multiple pages compiled by myself)

I have seen the new Marine Codex the command tanks are not in it. Tac Squads can take Grav, All dreadnoughts now have 4 base attacks. Only LOW is Calgar. No master of the Forge but Techmarines can take Conversion Beamers. Iron Hand Chapter Tactics now add +1 to feel no pain.

Raven Guard lost Scout but not get Shrouded turn 1 and +1 to roll for Night fight. Most others stay similar.


Sallies get 4+ FNP against flame weapons and preroll to wound with them. Scars can no longer scout land raiders. Templars can't take Librarians and get rage if they take damage from shooting the previous turn or overwatch. Bolter Drill can use special ammo now. Tac Doctrine lets tacsquads preroll all hits in shooting and assault.

Raven Guard got shafted I was really disappointed with them. Jump packs stay the same so can use them in both phases but lose of scout is huge.

Formations looked ok nothing amazing. The termi one can DS from turn 1. No assault marine formation :(. Bike are troops if you take any HQ on a bike, no need to be five man now. Temis squads of both kinds got a 5 point drop but TH SS cost the same as before after buying the upgrade for them. Centurions are pretty much the same.

Ultras get the 3 doctrines other chapters can use the tac one once a game if they take the decurian which is call Gladius Strike force.

Yeah grav canons on tac Squads. RG can add +1 to the dice roll for night fight. No grav on dread that I saw.

Templars get counter attack too after getting shot. Other armies only get the tac doc if they take the extra expensive formations. The docs look a lot better Ultras probably have the best chapter tactics still. Twin links grav centurions in pods seems scarey. Chapter Master is now an upgrade for a captain.

Iron Hands get 6+ as standard or +1 to any other FNP, vehicles and characters have IWND and tech marines +1 to repair.


(In reference to The Emperor's Champion)
Fear, reroll ld, FNP, can't remember the others, only the FNP stood out as being really good. EC has no stances, 2+ 4++ 2 base attacks, I5 WS6 plus a pistol, In a challenge can preroll to hit and wound and causes ID on a 6


Sternguard are the same rules wise. A few of the units have got cheaper by a few points. Not sure on Termi weapons, assault squads can take an evissorator for every 5 guys

Honour Guard and Command Squads are Elites now you don't need characters to take them. Fist is still unwieldy. All termis are 5 cheaper TH SS upgrade is 5 points more.

Calgar the same just LOW and can choose his Warlord trait so will pretty much always have FNP. He still lets you use a doctrine twice and now they are better he is better.

Calgar can pick his Warlord Trait from the marine list the best one being FNP. Shrike and any jump unit he joins can infiltrate. Vulcan master crafts melt weapons. Khan gives scout to bikes rhinos and razors. No Iron Hand character. You can take a librarian formation where one librarian can know any of the powers the others have if they don't cast and warp charges are on 3+

Lysander has 4 wounds and Eternal warrior still and Fist or Dorn is +6S. Kantor makes Sternguards objective secured

Didn't read Grimaldus, Helbrecth gives all units Hatred and Fleet once per game. Kahn, Sicarius and Him still only ap3. Sicarius lets you effect reserves and give one tac squad a usr.

The best formation from what I saw is strike force ultra. Can arrive turn 1 get +1 shot if ds or +1 a if assault from a vehicle

All vehicles can squadron you get bonus if you take 3. Whirlwinds get shred and pinning. Preds get monster and tank hunter.


Assault and Devastator Doctrine applies to all other squads on 1s like the Tactical Doctrine.

Basically they all allow to reroll ones for either shooting or assault depending on which one it is. Tacs reroll everything for the tac doc. Assault marines and assault centurions reroll all hits in combat for assault. Devs and Dev centurions reroll shooting to hit for theirs.

(Ultramarines) can use it twice. The best formation from what I saw is strike force ultra. Can arrive turn 1 get +1 shot if ds or +1 a if assault from a vehicle

[Alaric]

Still no Iron hands character :(
Why not GW? What did they do to be the only first Founding chapter without one?
As of this coming Saturday I can't even use the Clan Raukann supplement :(

Judging by the rumors you may not need or want it. Some new neat options, I admit it sucks you lose the unique warlord traits and wargear tho.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

As of this coming Saturday I can't even use the Clan Raukann supplement :(Why not, though? I don't think there's been any official word that the supplement is invalid, and it sounds like their won't be any rules contradictions with the upcoming codex.

[40kGamer]

Why not, though? I don't think there's been any official word that the supplement is invalid, and it sounds like their won't be any rules contradictions with the upcoming codex.

True. Noone has figured out if the Iyaden supplement is invalid and the Eldar book has been out for a while now! :)

- - - Updated - - -

"Bike are troops if you take any HQ on a bike, no need to be five man now. "

This is an odd item. GW had been dumping things that change the FOC category.

[energongoodie]

The guys at my club will 100% let me still use it, im sure. But the MOF has been my hq since the codex came out and my 3 techmarines have been a constant. It's not like the sky is falling :) I just got my hopes up for a character model and I don't like changing my army when it's been working so well.

[Bigred]

via Iuchiban (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?409276-Space-Marines-Codex-Rumours-MKII&p=7463054#post7463054) 6-8-2015

Marine "Decurion"
The basic "Decurión" is the Demi battle company:
- 1 Captain or Chaplain
- 0-1 Command squad
- 3 Tactical squads
- 1 Assault squad, Bike squad, Attack bike squad, Land speeder squad or Assault Cents.
- 1 Devastator squad or Dev Cent squad.
- 0-1 Dreadnought of any type.

This formation may use any battle doctrines once per battle

If you take 2 Demi-Companies, you get a full Company. (First company with a Captain and the second with a Chaplain). If done so, any unit that is able to purchase a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod, may do so without any additional cost.

Termins are now 175 points (Both types), altough hammer and shied cost +10 points

Devastator, for +5 points, may once per game, reroll to hit. Grav cannons + amp cost 35 points.

Chapter master upgrade is not one per army.

No Land Raider Squadrons, but one Formation (3 Land Raiders of any type). They reroll to wound vs Gargantuan Creatures and to penétrate vs Superhevies. If they are at 6" of any other Raider of the formation, they ignore any result on the damage chart but destroyed.

To get the benefit of the tank squadrons you need 3 of them. You lose the benefit if you lose a tank.

Warlord Traits
Calgar (275) may choose his warlord trait from the codex.
They are:
- Warlord gains Fear. Test is done with 3D6.
- Warlord and his unit get Furious Charge
- Warlord has FnP
- Every shooting phase pick a unit at max 12". Shooting weapons of this unit get the Rending SR
- Any unit in the same Detachment may use Warlord's Ld
- Any unit at 12" reroll Ld tests (Moral, Pinning, Fear)

His army may use one additional doctrine, once per game.

BTW doctrines are cumulative. If you have an Ultramarines detachment, using a DemiCompany and Calgar, you may use the same doctrine 3 times during the battle.

Tigurius (165). Pretty much the same.

This is for the Gladius Detachment.

Formations
Let's go with the formations:

Demi-Company (See above)
- Tactic Doctrine may be used once per game (cumulative with other doctrines)
- They get objetive secured

Anti-Air Defence Force
- 1 unit of Hunters
- 1 unit of Stalkers
Benefits:
- If one Hunter hits a flyer with the main weapon, all Stalkers in the unit get +1BS when firing at this flyer.
Restrictions:
- Unit of Stalkers: Mínimum 2


1st Company Task Force
- 3-5 Units from:
Termis
Assault Termis
Sternguard Veterans
Vanguard Veterans
Benefits:
- Fear
- Fearless
- At the beginning of the game, pick an enemy unit. Units in this formation have Preferred Enemy against the picked unit
- Enemy units get -2 to L, if they are a 12" of a mínimum of 3 units of this formation
Restrictions: None

Strilke Force Ultra
- 1 Captain
- 2 Termi squads
- 2 Assault Termi squads
- 1 Venerable Dreadnoght
- 1 Stormraven
- 1 LR Crusader or Redeemer
Benefits:
- All units stay in Reserve. Start rolling on your turn 1.
- After coming from reserves, or disembarking, shooting weapons of the Termi squads get +1 shoot (For Example, Assault Cannon becomes Heavy 5)
- When disembarking from a transport, assault Termi units get +1A.
Restrictions:
Captain must have Terminator Armour
All units must enter via DS, unless embarked in a Transport.

Reclusiam Command Squad
- 1 Chaplain
- 1 Command Squad
Benefits:
- All units at 6" benefit from the Fanatic SR, not only the Chaplain unit
Restrictions:
- Unit must purchase a Razorback. Chaplain may not leave the command squad.


10th Company Task Force
- 3-5 units of:
Scout Squad
Scout Bike
0-1 Telion
Benefits:
- Precisión shots during first turn
- If the unit has not the Stealth SR, they get it until the move, shoot, charge, etc.
Restrictions:
- Scout bikes must purchase the mines.


Storm Wing
- 1 Stormraven
- 2 Stormtalons
Benefits:
- Make only a reserve roll for the whole unit
- Stormraven gets the Strafin Run SR, if at least a Talon is alive.
Restrictions:
None


Centurión Siege Breaker Cohort
- 2-4 Assault Cent squads
- 1 Ironclad
Benefits:
- If they destroy a Transport, unit inside the 2D6 S6 AP4 hits, Ignore cover.
- Reroll to penétrate vs buildings
Restrictions:
None


Land Raider Spearhead
- 3 Raiders of any type.
Benefits:
- See previous posts
Restrictions:
None


Librarius Conclave
3-5 Librarians
Benefits:
- Pick one Librarian, This guy knows all the powers of any Lib of the formation at 12". Those Libs may not cast powers this turn. Picked Lib harness warp charges with 3+ if one Lib is at 12" or less. If 2 Libs at 12" or less, harnessing is with 2+.
Restrictions:
None


Armoured Task Force
- 1 Techmarine
- 0-3 TFC
- 3-5 Units of
Vindicators
Predators
Whirlwinds
- 0-1 Chronus
Benefits:
- Ignore crew shaken and stunned if at 6" of a Techmarine or a Techmarine gunner
- Thechmarine and Techmarine gunner get +1 to Ominissiah rolls (repair vehicles)


Suppression Force
- 1 Whirlwind unit
- 1 Landspeeder unit
Benefits:
- One landspeeder may pick an enemy unit at 12". Whirlwinds reroll to hit vs this unit. If the picked unit is out of range of the whirlwinds, the may fire ignoring it.
Restrictions:
None

Chapter Tactics
Chapter tactics are:

Ultramarinres:
- Can use one battle doctrine (Tac, Dev or Assault) once per game. Can use Tac once, Dev once, and Assault once.

White Scars
- Reroll when running
- Bikes get skilled rider, and +1S to HoW attacks

Imperial Fists
- Reroll "1" to hit when using bolt weapons (Bolt pistol, boltgun, heavy bolter, assault bolter and combi-weapons)
- Reroll to penétrate against buildings. Devs and Dev cents have tankhunter SR.

-Black Templars
- Crusade + Adamantium Will
- No Libs
- If a unit loses a model during any shooting phase, that unit gets Counterattack and Rage.

Iron Hands
- Characters and vehicles have the "It will not die" SR. Techmarines have +1 to repair
- Non, vehicle models get FnP (6+). If model already has FnP, gains +1 instead.

Salamanders
- FnP (4+) vs flamers. Reroll to wound and to penetrate when firing flamers.
- All characters improve one weapon to Mastercrafted

Raven Guard
- Shrouded during until turn 2. May add +1 to night fight roll
- May use jump packs both in Movement and Assault phase. Reroll to wound HoW attacks.

Some info about the Special Characters

Kor'sarro Khan
- Gives Scout to the Bikes in his army
- Give 1D3 victory points if he kills the enemy warlord in a challenge.
Warlord trait: 12" bubble of rerolling L tests

Vulkan
- No changes
Warlord trait: FnP

Shrike
- No changes
Warlord trait: Fear. Fear tests with 3D6

Lysander
- No changes
Warlord trait: FnP

Kantor
- Sternguard vets have objetive secured SR
- Oath of Rynn: same
Warlord trait: FnP

Helbrecht
- No changes
- Warlord and unit have Furious charge

Grimaldus
- Cenobyte servitors give FnP at 6"
- Units in same Detachment use warlord L

[Houghten]

Free dedicated transports for a full Company?

Not quite as bad as free supercooled plasma for the Mechanicus formation, but still. The idea that a points cost has any meaning even within a Codex is rapidly becoming a bad joke.

[Andrew Thomas]

White Scars CTs are unfluffy and really didn't need to change... unless I missed something obvious.

[Kirsten]

if you are taking a full company some free transports are hardly going to break the game.

[Brakkart]

Highlights for me:


Bolter Drill can use special ammo now.

Honour Guard and Command Squads are Elites now you don't need characters to take them.

You can take a librarian formation where one librarian can know any of the powers the others have if they don't cast and warp charges are on 3+

Lysander has 4 wounds and Eternal warrior still and Fist of Dorn is +6S. Kantor makes Sternguard's objective secured

All vehicles can squadron you get bonus if you take 3. Whirlwinds get shred and pinning. Pred's get monster and tank hunter.


If all of that is true, consider me a happy Imperial Fist commander. Very happy that Honour Guard squads are still in the book, hopefully they will have some better gear options this time around. Still gonna need to take a trip to WW to get the Command Tanks box it seems, but some good reasons to get more of all the other Astartes tanks too. Was already getting the figures to run a Librarius formation for an Apoc game at the end of August, glad to see I'll get more use out of them now that there's a similar formation for use in regular 40k games.

[Ruckus]

Min strength full company with assault squads would be ~1300 points and able to take 12 TLLC Razorbacks for free? Doubt it works that way but lol...

[Tomgar]

Gee, thanks taking all the unique stuff Dark Angels had and giving it to the Vanillas! What's the bet that our Codex will basically play like Vanilla marines with Stubborn and fewer unique toys?

Man, that's genuinely annoying. GW just can't bear to let DA have unique stuff if it means depriving the douchbags in blue of it.

[Austin Becht]

Gee, thanks taking all the unique stuff Dark Angels had and giving it to the Vanillas! What's the bet that our Codex will basically play like Vanilla marines with Stubborn and fewer unique toys?

Man, that's genuinely annoying. GW just can't bear to let DA have unique stuff if it means depriving the douchbags in blue of it.

Don't worry, you'll get your new dex soon, so the rumors say. Then we shall see who is better or worse.

[Tomgar]

Don't worry, you'll get your new dex soon, so the rumors say. Then we shall see who is better or worse.


I don't really care about being strong or competitive. I've made my peace with playing with weak sauce after years of Dark Angels and Dark Eldar :p

What I resent is that all the things that made us unique (Librarius conclave, Bike troops, all Terminator lists, turn one Terminator alpha-strike) are being stripped away until we're essentially Vanilla Space Marines with fewer toys and a smattering of unique units of questionable worth. Unless our Codex is re-conceptualised from the ground up (I doubt it since it'd entail GW putting in actual effort and imagination when designing rules), that is basically how we're going to end up, regardless of what buffs or nerfs we receive. It's not about power-level but the design philosophy behind each army that makes it unique.

Hell, at this stage I'm starting to understand the people who drone on about DA being rolled into the Vanilla Codex.

[Erik Setzer]

if you are taking a full company some free transports are hardly going to break the game.

Eh... It's something like 350 points free, minimum. Worse is giving them all free Drop Pods, and you don't even need that for Assault Squads or Devastators, so you can use their empty pods to let you drop in almost all of your Tactical Squads on the first turn. For extra crunchy goodness, depending on which units get ObjSec, that's a lot of free ObjSec DPs you can land on objectives to claim them, all at no points cost.

Money cost, of course, is still a serious consideration. But hey, that's the whole point of these new "detachments" and formations, to get people to throw even more money at the game.

[DarkLink]

Hell, at this stage I'm starting to understand the people who drone on about DA being rolled into the Vanilla Codex.

Here's the thing: every single codex cycle, the DA/BA come out with their book, and they get a few neat toys, but generally fade to obscurity quickly because they turn out to mostly be one-trick ponies. Then the SM book comes out, and they get a bunch of awesome new toys, and all the DA/BA players complain "why didn't we get that?". Then after a few years, the new BA/DA book comes out, and they get some of the new toys but not all of them, and they quickly fade back into obscurity. The new SM codex comes out, and gets even more new toys, and the BA/DA players complain again. It's a never ending cycle. So, really, who cares if DA lose their stupid little chapel land speeder or whatever that no one uses anyways? If they're incorporated into the core SM codex, they get into sync with all the new SM toys without the constant need for years of waiting for updates, and there's no reason GW can't come out with a supplement with a few formations/units/characters in place of their unique codex. A lot more people would be far more satisfied with the latter solution than the current wheel of frustration.

[spagunk]

Then after a few years, the new BA/DA book comes out, and they get some of the new toys but not all of them, and they quickly fade back into obscurity.

Except we(ba) didn't really end up with any new toys from the SM codex so I don't see your point. About the only thing we ended up with was grav-guns and tactical heavy flamers. Compare this to centurions, stalker/hunters, land speed storm, thunderfire cannons etc, etc. Should have said "Almost none of the new toys".

[Kirsten]

Min strength full company with assault squads would be ~1300 points and able to take 12 TLLC Razorbacks for free? Doubt it works that way but lol...

yeah it will require full strength squads

- - - Updated - - -


What I resent is that all the things that made us unique (Librarius conclave, Bike troops, all Terminator lists, turn one Terminator alpha-strike) are being stripped away until we're essentially Vanilla Space Marines with fewer toys and a smattering of unique units of questionable worth.

librarians, bikes and terminators are not uniquely dark angels though. given the variety of deathwing and ravenwing units you can hardly complain that Dark Angels are losing unique facets. dark angels ravenwing armies have far far more options than a marine bike army, and the same for terminator armies.

[Charon]

librarians, bikes and terminators are not uniquely dark angels though. given the variety of deathwing and ravenwing units you can hardly complain that Dark Angels are losing unique facets. dark angels ravenwing armies have far far more options than a marine bike army, and the same for terminator armies.

You do not really play the game, right?
If you consider having a Vanilla Space marine bike as a fast attack choice for 27 points and an White Scar Bike as troops for 21 points... yeah that a lot of "options".
You even have to add in Samael to play Ravenwing at all.

[Kirsten]

what on earth are you talking about?

[Charon]

Thats basically what im asking you when you talk about how deathwing and ravenwing has more "options" than space marines.
They are more expensive, they sit in Fast attack and Elite only unless you buy am overpriced SC to unlock them as troops and they are around 28% more points than space marine bikes and have less special rules.
Where are these "options"?

[Kirsten]

vanilla bike armies, you have bikes, attack bikes, and land speeders. ravenwing armies you have bikes, ravenwing knights, command squad, attack bikes, land speeders, land speeder vengeance, land speeder darkshroud.
vanilla terminator armies you have tactical or assault terminators. dark angels get deathwing terminators, command squads, and deathwing knights.

vanilla marines being able to take terminator or bike armies in no way takes away from the uniqueness of dark angels terminator or bike armies.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

Deathwing are a reliable unit, and can carry a proper mix of weapons, making each squad that much more efficient, even if you go 4 x THSS and 1 x Assault Cannon - it's still better than Vanilla Marines will ever get.

[Charon]

So thats the reason why we do not see any White Scar armies at top tables and everything is littered with Ravenwing because of all their valid "options"

[Houghten]

So thats the reason why we do not see any White Scar armies at top tables and everything is littered with Ravenwing because of all their valid "options"

You're so far outside the original point that I'm just going to post a picture of a chick in a mitre:
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14489&d=1433849208

Because it has exactly as much to do with the "vanilla SM are stealing all DA's cool stuff" gripe as "Ravenwing aren't winning tournaments" does.

[Kirsten]

roflcopters

[Mr Mystery]

So thats the reason why we do not see any White Scar armies at top tables and everything is littered with Ravenwing because of all their valid "options"

I don't know. I don't really follow tournaments, as I'm much too obsessed with just having some fun.

[Tomgar]

vanilla bike armies, you have bikes, attack bikes, and land speeders. ravenwing armies you have bikes, ravenwing knights, command squad, attack bikes, land speeders, land speeder vengeance, land speeder darkshroud.
vanilla terminator armies you have tactical or assault terminators. dark angels get deathwing terminators, command squads, and deathwing knights.

vanilla marines being able to take terminator or bike armies in no way takes away from the uniqueness of dark angels terminator or bike armies.


So because we get a couple more options (at vastly inflated costs that render said options almost useless), we should be fine with vanilla marines suddenly having the turn 1 alpha striking termie armies or all bike armies that were once one of our own unique game mechanics?

Umm, no. Just no.

[Kirsten]

a lot more options actually, as you can see. and terminator armies and bike armies have been available to marines for a long time.

so yes. just yes.

I would like to put forward a totally radical suggestion. how about you wait until the marine and dark angels books actually come out before throwing the toys out of the pram?

[Tomgar]

Yup.

Deathwing are a reliable unit, and can carry a proper mix of weapons, making each squad that much more efficient, even if you go 4 x THSS and 1 x Assault Cannon - it's still better than Vanilla Marines will ever get.

Yes, Deathwing are very reliable at being overcosted as hell because Fearless. And you're really not seeing my point: a few different weapon options doesn't make up for the fact that our general playstyles and mechanics have now been made available to Vanillas on top of all their own crap. Drone on about THSS and Heavy Weapon Deathwing all you like, it still doesn't change the fact that the once unique Deathwing alpha strike mechanic has now become a standard Vanilla tactic.

- - - Updated - - -


a lot more options actually, as you can see. and terminator armies and bike armies have been available to marines for a long time.

so yes. just yes.

I would like to put forward a totally radical suggestion. how about you wait until the marine and dark angels books actually come out before throwing the toys out of the pram?

I see no toys on the floor, I'm only discussing my feelings on what we currently know about the Vanilla book and making educated guesses about the next DA book. Hardly tantrum throwing. But hey, guess I'm not being all sunshine and rainbows about everything GW does so that means I'm just throwing a childish hissy fit, eh? Oh, and Vanillas now get bike command squads, I'm led to believe. So much for those unique DA options!

:rolleyes:

[Kirsten]

your last few posts have been nothing but whining about something when you have no actual knowledge of what the new books will be like. so yes, it is tantrum throwing. wait until the dark angels codex comes out before *****ing about what marines can get or do.

[Mr Mystery]

I think you're vastly underestimating Fearless Terminators.....go on. Shift them off that objective. It's doable, but can you really afford to chuck that much firepower at them when there's the rest of their army shooting you up?

But as Kirsten says - don't worry about hypotheticals. That's the Ultramarine way, and not befitting a son of Caliban.

[Kirsten]

vanilla terminators are coming down in cost apparently, I bet the deathwing will too. and we know the dark angels will get new formations, because everyone has done. for all you know the deathwing formation will be far better than the vanilla marine one. at which point your better terminators, with more units and more options, and a better formation, will be sitting pretty.

[Defenestratus]

if you are taking a full company some free transports are hardly going to break the game.

11 deathwind missile drop pods might put a hurt on though. I doubt people are going to run out and buy a crapton more drop pods just to do it, but its a viable tactic.

But overall, I see a fluffy codex if not an overly powerful one. The Land Raider formation SOUNDS great until you realize that you can just still hullpoint the things to death and the vehicle squadrons lose their special rules if you blow up just a single tank. If you go second, and turn one a predator blows up, well, sorry - you didn't get to use that rule...

[Kirsten]

drop pods with the missile upgrades? maybe a little bit yeah, but still, it will be a big point game, and those weapons are short ranged

[Charon]

vanilla terminators are coming down in cost apparently, I bet the deathwing will too. and we know the dark angels will get new formations, because everyone has done. for all you know the deathwing formation will be far better than the vanilla marine one. at which point your better terminators, with more units and more options, and a better formation, will be sitting pretty.


you have no actual knowledge of what the new books will be like.

But you have. Like... when you insisted that Codex: Craftworld Eldar will just be a supplement because they are never ever going to invalidate such a fresh codex.

For all we know they could easily get the Daemonkin or DE treatment.
"Oh look all your vehicles can now deepstrike.
"That is a major buff! They could do that before with an upgrade and they just auto-included it and raised the costs. Also weapons got more expensive"
"Oh wow you are so negative.."

For all we know they can just get rid of deathwing assault and add it back in as a formation benefit.

[Kirsten]

actually I never 'insisted' any such thing, I suggested it was a possibility and to wait and see.

my exact words were "everybody seems to be assuming this will replace the current book, but it might not. Don't forget the last craftworld book was supplementary to the main codex. "

it is almost as though you are deliberately lying. But I am sure you aren't that stupid.

I am not sure what the rest of that fictional conversation is supposed to be about.

[Erik Setzer]

I don't know. I don't really follow tournaments, as I'm much too obsessed with just having some fun.

You might not realize this, but there are a lot of people who have fun playing in tournaments. Being a tournament player doesn't mean you're not interested in fun, it just means you have a different idea of what's fun.

- - - Updated - - -


vanilla terminators are coming down in cost apparently

Still not happy about that. Terminators keep dropping in price, but my MegaNobz are sitting on a hefty price, and will die sickeningly fast to AP2. Yeah, sure, it helps my Marine army, and it means Terminators might see the table more often again without having TH/SS on every models, but it does a good job of reminding me how they've already wrecked the balance between armies within a year of the new edition's release.

I think half of my depression comes from being an Ork player... (Having a lack of AP2 outside of combat, where the army lacks any inv. save, isn't helping.)

[Defenestratus]

I think half of my depression comes from being an Ork player... (Having a lack of AP2 outside of combat, where the army lacks any inv. save, isn't helping.)

Man, if you get depressed over plastic toy soldiers then its stopped being a hobby by definition.

You need to find a way for it to allow you the escapism from modern society that provides plethora ways of depressing someone.

[Tomgar]

Aaaaand, people still aren't getting my point.

*sigh*

I don't. Care. About. Power. Level.


I care about our unique mechanics (such as turn one, alpha striking termie armies, which, by the way, Vanillas did not have access to unless you went unbound which bloody nobody does) being ported over to the boring marines. I'd happily take a nerf bat and have 50pt Terminators if it meant retaining our unique gameplay mechanics. Unless Dark Angels are totally re-worked in the way they operate, our mainstay game mechanics that made us a unique proposition have now been made widely available. This is not speculation, this is what we know to be true.

So we still have a few unique units. Woop-de-frigging-doo. Doesn't change the fact that the underlying unique mechanics of playing DA have now become homogenised. If I wanted to play Vanillas, I'd play Vanillas. I want to play Dark Angels with unique abilities and gameplay options.

[Defenestratus]

Aaaaand, people still aren't getting my point.
So we still have a few unique units. Woop-de-frigging-doo. Doesn't change the fact that the underlying unique mechanics of playing DA have now become homogenised. If I wanted to play Vanillas, I'd play Vanillas. I want to play Dark Angels with unique abilities and gameplay options.

I think its premature to conclude that DA have lost their unique flavor before its new book is released or we even have rumors about what will be in it.

[Kirsten]

exactly. If you are worried that imperial fist space marine armies are going to be too similar too dark angels space marine armies because they both have terminators and bikes then maybe marines aren't for you. every chapter has bikes and terminators, those in themselves have never been unique. Dark Angels have more terminators and more bikes and pilots fluff wise, which is why they get more varieties of terminators, and more bikes and land speeders. there is nothing changing about what makes the dark angels unique.

[Timotheus]

First pics of the chapter tactics and combat doctrines: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308934-new-codex-space-marines-news-rumors/?p=4078734

More to come later...

[Bigred]

via Descanso del Escriba (http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2015/06/dos-imagenes-mas-filtradas-del-codex.html) 6-9-2015


Chapter Tactics

1450114502

[Timotheus]

via Descanso del Escriba (http://descansodelescriba.blogspot.com/2015/06/dos-imagenes-mas-filtradas-del-codex.html) 6-9-2015

Wow those adpoted the pics quite fast... :D

[phreakachu]

have we gotten a solid confirm on the new dex being incompatable with the suppliments?
yes, id does follow the lead of craftworld, but have we gotten a rock solid answer one way or the other?

[Agramar]

Wow those adpoted the pics quite fast... :D
Wow just linked to the original source and coment the pics,no more...:rolleyes:
the only one who adopted pics was you,from Reinhard.Adopted and turned,of course:D

[Timotheus]

Wow just linked to the original source and coment the pics,no more...:rolleyes:
the only one who adopted pics was you,from Reinhard.Adopted and turned,of course:D

I didn't mean it as an accusation. That said, I never stated these are mine and they're not by Reinhard either.

[blueshift]

I didn't mean it as an accusation. That said, I never stated these are mine and they're not by Reinhard either.

stay on target...


stay on target...

*explodes in a fireball*

So how about them sphess, eh? Looks like everyone stayed the same or slighlty buffed

[Houghten]

Well, who are they by? I need to send them a link explaining how their camera's focus function works.

[Agramar]

Everything I have done has been taking the info from the original source,linking it,say who showed it first and coment my own opinion.That's is more than "adopt"...

- - - Updated - - -


Well, who are they by? I need to send them a link explaining how their camera's focus function works.
Someone in 4chan website

[Timotheus]

Everything I have done has been taking the info from the original source,linking it,say who showed it first and coment my own opinion.That's is more than "adopt"...

- - - Updated - - -


Someone in 4chan website

Well then excuse my bad english. Sorry for the OT anyway.

[40kGamer]

have we gotten a solid confirm on the new dex being incompatable with the suppliments?
yes, id does follow the lead of craftworld, but have we gotten a rock solid answer one way or the other?

No official answer, just crickets.

[Houghten]

It's always crickets! I'm still waiting for them to officially say Codex: Armageddon and Codex: Eye of Terror are no longer valid!

[Timotheus]

Full codex leaks (german): http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308934-new-codex-space-marines-news-rumors/?p=4078990

These are actually my own now. Greetings to Agramar ;) (I know I threw the first stone unintended and will quiet down from now on). Cheers

[Erik Setzer]

Man, if you get depressed over plastic toy soldiers then its stopped being a hobby by definition.

You need to find a way for it to allow you the escapism from modern society that provides plethora ways of depressing someone.

Well, it was actually a joke... though since I do use games as a means to try to entertain myself, I've had to step away from GW games until they calm down with the current trend which is edging more and more toward serious "pay to win." It's not so "cool" when I look at the games and think, "Why pay thousands to play these matches when Space Marine was a better scale and system for these tank squadrons and Titans versus tank squadrons and Titans battles?" I have a few people to play with (who view it the same way, really), so I'll play some GW games, but hey, the local shop just got in Bolt Action, Armada and X-Wing are fun, I have a lot of computer games to catch up on, and a friend just started a D&D campaign (plus I just picked up Twilight Imperium). So thankfully, for now, not so bad on the entertainment front.

Heck, when playing against my friends who aren't keen on GW's current practices, I can actually have a fun game with Orks, because they also can't afford to buy masses of tanks and the latest hotness.

[Bigred]

via Bolter & Chainsword 6-9-2015


Space Marine CONFIRMED Rules (in German & French)

14503145041450514506145071450814509145101451114512

Get on it german & French speakers!

[Arkhan Land]

still curious on if predators sqaudrons are getting any useful buffs, aside from not being a single unit choice of course

[Houghten]

still curious on if predators sqaudrons are getting any useful buffs, aside from not being a single unit choice of course

While the squadron contains three models, they have Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter.

("while there are three" bonuses are also found on Vindicators (combine shots into an Apocalyptic Blast that Ignores Cover), Thunderfire Cannon (+1 BS), Whirlwinds (Pinning and Shred), Hunters (re-roll Savant Lock) and Stalkers (Ignores Cover))

[Jared Searl]

Are they seriously getting a 10' S10 ignores armour/cover nlast? As in, almost can't miss?

[Bigred]

Blood of Kittens is on the case - In English

Space Marine Rules (http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/06/09/rumor-it-tired-reading-german-space-marine-rules/)

[rabid_stoat]

While the squadron contains three models, they have Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter.

("while there are three" bonuses are also found on Vindicators (combine shots into an Apocalyptic Blast that Ignores Cover), Thunderfire Cannon (+1 BS), Whirlwinds (Pinning and Shred), Hunters (re-roll Savant Lock) and Stalkers (Ignores Cover))

I am going to have to experiment with 3 Whirlwinds and see how that works - cheap enough.

[Charon]

Im going to love what that cheap stalkers will do to Dark Eldar.

[Arkhan Land]

GWs answer to Vehicle vulnerability in the newer editions, Buy More Tanks, Shoot More Things, Hope for the best

[FishBrainn]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that the leaked codex refers to the weapon profile (both ranged and melee) to page 200 of the rulebook, which is the page with destroyer weapon table, perils, etc? I checked to old codex which does not mention a page number, so this isn't a copypasta error. I do not have a 6th edition codex nearby, so it might be that it is still a 6th edition reference. Could someone check this? I am dying of curiosity here. If this is not the case, GW might have leaked a hint to 8th edition. Any thoughts on this?

[George Timson]

Am I the only one that finds it weird that the leaked codex refers to the weapon profile (both ranged and melee) to page 200 of the rulebook, which is the page with destroyer weapon table, perils, etc? I checked to old codex which does not mention a page number, so this isn't a copypasta error. I do not have a 6th edition codex nearby, so it might be that it is still a 6th edition reference. Could someone check this? I am dying of curiosity here. If this is not the case, GW might have leaked a hint to 8th edition. Any thoughts on this?

It's page 200 of the Marine codex, not page 200 of the rulebook. Page 200 of the marine dex is the very last page and has all the weapons profiles nicely listed there.

[AdamHarry]

via Games Workshop 6-13-2015


Space Marine Librarian in Terminator Armor
1458314584

Space Marine Skyhammer Annihilation Force
1458514586

Sons of Ultramar Painting Guide
14587

via Games Workshop 6-13-2015, made readable by Elite 40,000 (http://elite40k.blogspot.com/2015/06/analysis-skyhammer-annihilation-force.html)



Skyhammer Annihilation Force Rules:
Shock Deployment: All units in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. Instead of using the normal deployment and reserve rules for these units, you can, during deployment, choose whether this Formation will arrive during your first or second turn. The entire Skyhammer Annihilation Force automatically arrives on the turn you choose—no Reserve Rolls are required. Ignore this Formation's Drop Pods for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule.
First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn.
Suppressing Fusillade: A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad in the Shooting phase must take a Morale test at the end of the phase on 3D6, regardless of how many casualties were inflicted. If the test is failed, the enemy unit does not Fall Back, but must immediately Go to Ground. If the test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn.
Leave No Survivors: Assault Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement phase and the Assault phase. If an Assault Squad from a Skyhammer Annihilation Force charges a unit that has Gone to Ground as a result of the Suppressing Fusillade special rule, that Assault Squad can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in the ensuring Assault phase.

[Mr Mystery]

That's a very straight forward kit. Perhaps even disappointingly so.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

It does look as good as any other character kits from 2013 though to be fair, but it is a little bland - but then I just finished assembling my tech--priest dominus which is the polar opposite so perhaps I'm biased.

[Cpt Codpiece]

ah that head is gonna be a swine to drill out :(
why always with hiuman heads in terminators?
it is supposed to be the best suita available, but leave the most vital piece of anatomy exposed? it should be 5+ with no ++ if you dont use a lid.

ill still try to lid him however.

[eosgreen]

so im new to 40k "formations" but can characters join formations if not specified as part of the formation? going to assume no... but you never know

[Houghten]

Unless the formation specifies they can't (eg the Council of Waaagh) then there's no restriction.

[Charon]

You can but they are not part of the formation regarding formation rules.

So if you have a formation that must contain 2 units of X and 1 unit of Z to unlock FnP and Furious Charge for the Formation you can attach a Character from (for example) a combined arms detachment but he will not get Furious Charge and FnP as he is not part of the original formation.

[eosgreen]

You can but they are not part of the formation regarding formation rules.

So if you have a formation that must contain 2 units of X and 1 unit of Z to unlock FnP and Furious Charge for the Formation you can attach a Character from (for example) a combined arms detachment but he will not get Furious Charge and FnP as he is not part of the original formation.

ah ok so for example a character cannot join this deep striking formation of devs and jump packs because he wouldnt be able to follow the original rules but he COULD join "after". am i getting it?

my other question is for these "free" transports i assume that doesnt include upgrades. they should be more specific as some people i know would most likely assume a "more unreasonable" reading and take free full upgs lol

[Erik Setzer]

Meh. I think the Space Marines might be the thing that makes me quit for good.

It's not so much the codex and all the stuff in it, which is pretty over the top in places and smacks of pay-to-win as it is.

Add in that new web-exclusive formation that says "piss off, rulebook!" and doesn't care if you already own the models. You can't get this special formation unless you buy a completely new set of models? Yes, I know you can get it illegally, but we're right back to having to advocate illegal actions to get around stupid corporate decisions.

But the thing that on top of all of that, that broke me... the ridiculous physical book. Okay, I'm paying $58 and being told that's a good deal (despite another book I have at 320 pages for $50 retail, which people can get for as low as $24 brand new because of non-monopolistic tendencies), and that's annoying enough. I left the local GW store, went to another store to check out some stuff. Left the codex in the car, as I did other books (and my friend left some books as well, because we always do that). Came back out after a couple hours, and the BRAND NEW Space Marine codex was warped. Seriously warped. The pages were wavy and stiff, the covers were bent. This is a brand new book, and it couldn't handle conditions that other books can easily handle. What are you making books out of that they're so pathetic they will do that?

So yeah, we get pay-to-win formation bundles that don't care about players with existing armies who've already spent a lot, and a codex full of ridiculous buggery, and then top off that cake with a book that is so cheaply made while being overpriced that it just looks horrible to look at.

Oh, and all I've gotten so far was "Try to take a shower with the book in the bathroom, then immediately stack a lot of heavy books on it, and try to get it back in shape that way." So I have to risk damaging a book to fix something that shouldn't be happening with a brand-new book?

There's a chunk of money gone from my bank account now for this, and I think that was the final straw. I like my local manager, but I'm sick of a company doing BS to try to ruin their own game for money, and going cheap in the production of books they overcharge for.

Oh, and you GW-is-God trolls? This is the NICEST thing I can say right now. The moment I discovered the condition of the book, my friend learned some choice new comments (he's used to my vocabulary, at that), and I was still toning it down for him.

[Charon]

ah ok so for example a character cannot join this deep striking formation of devs and jump packs because he wouldnt be able to follow the original rules but he COULD join "after". am i getting it?

You can joint them as they have no special rule which prevents that (he is allowed in a drop pod as per BRB and he may have a jump pack as per codex) however if he joins a unit of assault marines he would not be able to assault after DS because this is for the models in the formation only.


my other question is for these "free" transports i assume that doesnt include upgrades. they should be more specific as some people i know would most likely assume a "more unreasonable" reading and take free full upgs lol

It doesnt include upgrades but it is still a lot of free points.

[Mud Duck]

I've a question. Where is this idea of free tanks in the Codex? I see no listing for free anything, anywhere. What am I missing?

[Charon]

Gladius (?) Detachment.
Makes all Units in it Objective secured. If you pick it a 2nd time (with a chaplain instead of a captain) all transport options are free.

[Mud Duck]

Gladius (?) Detachment.
Makes all Units in it Objective secured. If you pick it a 2nd time (with a chaplain instead of a captain) all transport options are free.

Was that in last weeks WD? I'm seeing the Battle Demi-Company in the Codex, but not seeing anything on Gladius....

[Al Shut]

Anything in the codex look like the first picture?

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/06/09/rumor-it-tired-reading-german-space-marine-rules/

[Houghten]

Was that in last weeks WD? I'm seeing the Battle Demi-Company in the Codex, but not seeing anything on Gladius....

Right at the beginning of the "Forces of the Space Marines" section, you'll find the Gladius Strike Force, the metadetachment of which the Battle Demi-Company is a Core choice. One of its Command Benefits is that, if you include two Battle Demi-Companies, one with a Captain and one with a Chaplain, then any unit in the Battle Demi-Companies that can take a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod can do so for free (upgrades cost as normal).

[Mud Duck]

Right at the beginning of the "Forces of the Space Marines" section, you'll find the Gladius Strike Force, the metadetachment of which the Battle Demi-Company is a Core choice. One of its Command Benefits is that, if you include two Battle Demi-Companies, one with a Captain and one with a Chaplain, then any unit in the Battle Demi-Companies that can take a Rhino, Razorback or Drop Pod can do so for free (upgrades cost as normal).

Ah, there it is. Thank you.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dreadnoughts having A4 basic now...

[DarkLink]

They're still slow with limited transport options and aren't very hard to kill. They're certainly better, but not so buffed as to stand out.

[Erik Setzer]

You can take multiples in a slot. And 12 armor isn't "easy" to kill... unless the opposing army is throwing all their anti-armor at the Dreadnoughts, leaving everything else in the army alone. Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Whirlwinds have less armor (to say nothing of Land Speeders), Drop Pods and Stalkers have the same armor, and Predators and Vindicators are just +1 armor. So I guess those are all not hard enough to kill to justify getting them?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, as an Ork player, I can tell you they bloody well stand out to me, because I have to bolt a bunch of extra close combat weapons, rather than guns, onto my Dreadnoughts to get those attacks. And Orks are supposed to be the close combat army...

[MajorWesJanson]

You can take multiples in a slot. And 12 armor isn't "easy" to kill... unless the opposing army is throwing all their anti-armor at the Dreadnoughts, leaving everything else in the army alone. Rhinos, Razorbacks, and Whirlwinds have less armor (to say nothing of Land Speeders), Drop Pods and Stalkers have the same armor, and Predators and Vindicators are just +1 armor. So I guess those are all not hard enough to kill to justify getting them?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, as an Ork player, I can tell you they bloody well stand out to me, because I have to bolt a bunch of extra close combat weapons, rather than guns, onto my Dreadnoughts to get those attacks. And Orks are supposed to be the close combat army...

Well, Orks got a bad deal in their codex. But Dreadnoughts needed the buff, and so do Deff Dreds and Killa Kans when they et back to Orks usin the new style of codices.

[Erik Setzer]

Not saying giving love to Dreadnoughts is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out that they're not bad at all, especially compared to other armies.

My biggest problem right now is that I need to assembled a Dreadnought or two for my Marines that actually has a CCW. I might have a CCW somewhere to throw on them, can't remember, but most of the time (if not all the time) I had them running around with lascannon/missile launcher combo as a slightly mobile armored gun platform.

[Path Walker]

I love that Scouts are BS4 now, I ussually run some Sniper Scouts when I have the points (because I have an Anvil Industry model I love as the Sergeant more than any in game effect) so it makes them a bit easier to use now because they will all have the same BS.

Incidently, its http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/Black-Ops-Master-Sniper I use as my Scout Sergeant (and I've never had an issue with using him in GWs, even Warhammer World)

[Kirsten]

yeah very glad to see that change, much needed.

[deinol]

Not saying giving love to Dreadnoughts is a bad thing, I'm just pointing out that they're not bad at all, especially compared to other armies.

My biggest problem right now is that I need to assembled a Dreadnought or two for my Marines that actually has a CCW. I might have a CCW somewhere to throw on them, can't remember, but most of the time (if not all the time) I had them running around with lascannon/missile launcher combo as a slightly mobile armored gun platform.

I keep my dread arms unglued, they stay on fine with just friction.

I don't think I'll bother fielding a CC dread anyway, missiles and lascannon are still my favorite combo.

[Erik Setzer]

I normally don't glue them on, I like using magnets. I honestly just can't remember right now... I think I actually have an array of weapons for my Marine Dreads, but it's been a while since I played them, so all I'm going on is peeking in the foam trays as I loaded them for possible play yesterday (didn't get a chance).

Only Dreads I know definitely that I've glued the arms are Ork Dreads, and they're built different from Marine and Chaos Dreads. Pretty much have to glue their arms on. I did do a couple of all-CC Ork Dreads, and they reminded me why I don't usually do all-CC. Buggers get immobilized really early, and for some reason never anywhere near a Mek when it happens. I know it's silly to think that will happen every time I put any CC-based walker on the field, but it's happened so often that I think the Dice Gods have declared they hate CC walkers.

[Houghten]

All mine have Grot Riggers on for that very reason. Of course, then 7th changed the way they work...

[jonsgot]

I think I'm getting too old for this hobby. I finally got a 6th ed Space Marine codex in mid January this year and now it's out of date???. I think I've played with it once, I do have most armies and don't get to play that often. It feels like i totally wasted £30. I feel mentally old keeping up with all these formations and rules changes. I can't remember half the rules and frequently start using the wrong version. I'm glad Dreadnoughts got a buff and all.

I just wish GW could focus on selling new product lines that don't invalidate the old ones. I'd have been excited if they had done a £25 Space Marine formation book which buffs the Dregnoughts to 4 attacks as part of a formation.

I'm loving the new Devistator and Assault squads. I'd just like to enjoy my hobby without feeling stressed to keep up with all the codex changes. The old codex release rate was to slow with some armies not seeing a codex for over 4 years. I could cope with thing ramping up to 3 years per army, but 18 months is Madness.

Again I love the new kits and think the changes are good. I just don't love spending £35 to play one game with a codex.

[Thaldin]

That is how I felt about the Eldar codex. I think I got 2 games in and one of those is sitting in the middle of a turn right now.

[jonsgot]

That is how I felt about the Eldar codex. I think I got 2 games in and one of those is sitting in the middle of a turn right now.

I also got the 6th WD Eldar codex and I haven't used it much, however at least It lasted a few years, not a few months. I'm to scared to buy any of the other books now. I'd been holding out for Chaos and thinking about picking up Space Wolves for farthers day. I guess there are just enough young/rich people out they that GW doesn't have to worry about us old rogue traders not buying books, for fear they will expire next week.