Orks vs. Doom of Malantai

[MightyOrang]

Mob rule says that orks may choose to substitute the # of orks in the mob for their leadership value. Units over 11 are fearless. It does NOT say anything about leadership vice morale tests.

So ... would large mobs of orks not then always test against Doom on a 10?

[RocketRollRebel]

I would imagine so. Nobz and other elite Ork units are the ones who get really boned by it.

[sangrail777]

well that sucks.....lol

[Quaade]

The max stat you can have is 10, that includes leadership.

[gcsmith]

Dnt nobs have 2 wounds? thus the average nob unit would lose 1 model, as ive seen 8 in a unit normally and average on 3d6 is 10

[DarkLink]

The max stat you can have is 10, that includes leadership.

Well, the max permanently modified stat you can have is 10. Temporary modifiers can take it higher. That's why a Khorne lord with a bloodfeeder can get like, 17 attacks, potentially.

However, I think ork leadership would fall under permanent modifiers, thus maxing out at 10.

[Renegade]

I am not an Ork player and would need a closer look at the rules, but if discussed at the start of the game I cant see why it couldnt go up to 11. I comes down to what it says in the codex and players or groups agreement.

[Madness]

Page 6 of the BRB states that no characteristic can raise a stat above 10, so, while 17 attacks are possible, the A statistic of a model can't be raised to 11+. The mob rules also says "mobs with 11 models" so they never go up to Ld11+.

[Nabterayl]

The ork FAQ states that the Mob Rule! can only increase a weirdboy's Leadership to 10, no matter how many orks are in his unit. That certainly implies that the same should be true of other orks as well.

The rule states that ork mobs may (but interestingly, need not) "substitute" the number of Orks in the mob for their normal Leadership value. To me, that says that this is subject to the usual stat limit, because it isn't really a modifier. It's not like the rule states that orks may increase their Leadership by the number of Orks in the mob, or by (# of orks in the mob - normal Leadership), or something like that, or that they get a Leadership bonus.

[Madness]

To substitute is to modify and "no modifier may raise a characteristic above 10".

[Nabterayl]

Mmm, I meant to distinguish between things like a daemon weapon, which add to a statistic, and other effects, which say, "This is your statistic."

[Madness]

Yeah I got that, but sadlt RAW-wise, substitution is alteration. As a person who couldn't care less about RAW (I play the game with a rulebook made of suggestions, not laws) I would still agree that orks can't get over Ld10.

[Melissia]

As do I. Also, substitution IS modification. That is why both Stubborn and the Book of St. Lucius is so good-- they ignore all modifiers for those specific tests.

[Tynskel]

Well, the max permanently modified stat you can have is 10. Temporary modifiers can take it higher. That's why a Khorne lord with a bloodfeeder can get like, 17 attacks, potentially.

However, I think ork leadership would fall under permanent modifiers, thus maxing out at 10.

Those are extra bonus attacks. The Model's profile is not replaced by the blood feeder's extra attacks. They are in addition to the profile attacks.