Space Marine battles: Pandorax

[Jmaximum]

Just finished the book, and it left me feeling distinctly unfulfilled, as if I missed a book between Damnation of Pythos and Pandorax, or maybe there's another book after Pandorax.

So, as always: SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS****************************************** ************************************************** **************************











There is NO mention of the broken Salamander/Raven Guard/Iron Hands that landed on Pythos, and in, essence were defeated to the last man, or the Obelisk the cult on Pythos was looking for, or the subterranean Pyramids the Iron hands found. Instead, they invent new McGuffins called the Damnation Cache and the Prisoner of the Emerald Cave. One would think the Iron hands would have discovered and/or tried to destroy the damantion cache, and would have been the ones responsible for imprisoning the Prisoner, or at least discovered both prior to the Pandorax book. So there is a huge disconnect between the books. Also, at some point, Pythos has been settled by miners, but the Damnation book made it abundantly clear that the planet was uninhabitable, and that was from the perspective of Legionaries!
Also, in Damantion, the Grey Kngihts didn't even exist, so how in the world is there an 'original' Grey Knight standing guard for 10K years outside of stasis bubble that has 10K subjective year old psykers in it. WTF.

On page 255: it states that Malcador brought 12 men and women before the Emp to form the Inquisition. I thought it was people, and almost all were space marines?
Page 392: Abaddon captures Epimetheus, which I guess is *******ized classic Greek for the occlusion of knowledge (PROmetheus being the titan who gave man fire, a symbol of knowledge). There's a couple allusions to it, and Abaddon asks if he is the former Ultramarine, and even mentions that he killed one of Malcador's space marines. Who did Abaddon kill? And finally, he mentions on page 393: "Oh the irony.... the brother of ten who became the brother of eight. Azrael would tear this planet apart if he knew who you were." So who the heck is Epimethius?

What is the fate of Caldor Draigo that Corpulax speaks of?

On page 406: Caldor Draigo accuses Azrael of capturing and imprisoning Epimethius, and then references the other secrets of the Dark Angels, and the last sentence of the paragraph makes it seem like Azrael did take Epimethius prisoner, which turns out to be false in the epilogue.Previously, Caldor hinted that he knows what Azrael has locked away in the dungeons of the Rock. Is he referencing Luther? Is Luther even still around???

The very last sentence of the epilogue indicates that Epimetheus was one of the founders of the Grey Knights, but it's still vague (very frustrating), and Abaddon has him prisoner and gave Epimetheus's progenoids to Fabius Bile. What does Fabius do with these progenoids, and what happens to Epimethius?


All and all, I feel like this book was written for the sole purpose of NOT filling in any gaps, but creating more mystery.

[Gwhizz84]

He's Zahariel. Draigo's fate is to get sucked into the warp fighting M'kar and only emerge occasionally when someone summons loads of demons, re: Grey Knights fluff. Luther is definitely still around, it's the D.angels greatest secret. I don't think it's been stated what happens to his gene seed, probably something in the future I dunno.

[daboarder]

He's Zahariel. Draigo's fate is to get sucked into the warp fighting M'kar and only emerge occasionally when someone summons loads of demons, re: Grey Knights fluff. Luther is definitely still around, it's the D.angels greatest secret. I don't think it's been stated what happens to his gene seed, probably something in the future I dunno.

pretty much this, Its also worth noting that damnation of pythos was written long after the pandorax novel.

Oh, and Lokens probably dead based on abbadons comments

[Jmaximum]

Who's Zahariel? When did he come in to the scene?

[daboarder]

Who's Zahariel? When did he come in to the scene?

oooooh

woops, you haven't read the Dark Angels Heresy books yet have you

[Jmaximum]

I've read everything up to and including Damnation of Pythos. i recall, vaguely, one of the earlier books being a DA book, ending with something cryptic along the lines that one DA was sitting across from Johnson and all the Lion did was stare at him.

[Jmaximum]

Could I get some clarification on the Zahariel thing and the other stuff I asked?
I'm still pretty confused by the book.
SPoilers are completely welcome!

[Gwhizz84]

Zahariel is the DA libby from descent of angels/fallen angels, the one that gets banished to caliban with luther cos of the sarosh crap.

[Dalleron]

I still Zahariel gets to end up on Pandorax. It could be in some short story that I haven't read yet, or even know of.

I was disappointed that Damnation didn't tie into the battle novel at all, even in the slightest. I was wishing that would have been the case. I feel that is/was a missed opportunity on Black Libraries Part.

For what its worth, I don't think Luthor has any geneseed. He was too old for the process, but he was "augmented" by Imperial forces when the Lion was given his legion.

To reiterate, as far as I know there is nothing connecting the HH Damnation of Pythos to the current setting Pandorax books. Unless its in the audio books that lead up to Pandorax.

[daboarder]

The half heard and loken wind up on caliban and are rescued by a DA likely zahariel. Meaning he woild be the DA contribution to the GKs

[DarkLink]

Given the quality of the writing (or lack thereof), what did you expect out of this book? This was an excuse for the author to write about big explosions.

[daboarder]

Given the quality of the writing (or lack thereof), what did you expect out of this book? This was an excuse for the author to write about big explosions.

Ill be honest, listening to it as an audio book....thats all I wanted :)

[DarkLink]

I read it because I was told Draigo punches Azrael in the face. That was at least amusing.

[daboarder]

yeah but I wasn't really a fan of the whole "I know your super special secret that is the whole reason for existing in the background thing" that he had going on. I mean the dark angels dont exactly take **** about that

[DarkLink]

That's why I found it so funny. The Dark Angels are all super-serious about it, so Draigo's just like "ok, if you're going to act like a child, I'm going to take away your little toy because there are real, important things going on that are more important".

[daboarder]

eh, fair enough, it just personally irks me when GW one ups someones "thing" so to speak.

[DarkLink]

I find it a little annoying when a faction only has one "thing". Fallen this, fallen that, gets a little boring. It's rather one dimensional world building.

[daboarder]

I find it a little annoying when a faction only has one "thing". Fallen this, fallen that, gets a little boring. It's rather one dimensional world building.

yeah, that too

[Jmaximum]

Still confused (or in the dark) about a lot of stuff, or fluff, in this book.
The disconnect between Damnation and this is what really killed it for me

[daboarder]

thats damnations fault, not pandorax.

[Katharon]

Luther is definitely still around, it's the D.angels greatest secret. I don't think it's been stated what happens to his gene seed, probably something in the future I dunno.

Luther was never made into a full-Astartes, similar to Kor Phaeron. He was physically enhanced and given other implants, but he was not raised to the status for a full Astartes battle brother due to the fact that he was too old when the Emperor arrived upon Caliban. As such, he actually has no gene-seed inside of him.

[Jmaximum]

I would still love some answers on this stuff (One or two may have been answered in the posts, but I am still confused, and too damn lazy to edit out what may have been answered LOL)







There is NO mention of the broken Salamander/Raven Guard/Iron Hands that landed on Pythos, and in, essence were defeated to the last man, or the Obelisk the cult on Pythos was looking for, or the subterranean Pyramids the Iron hands found. Instead, they invent new McGuffins called the Damnation Cache and the Prisoner of the Emerald Cave. One would think the Iron hands would have discovered and/or tried to destroy the damantion cache, and would have been the ones responsible for imprisoning the Prisoner, or at least discovered both prior to the Pandorax book. So there is a huge disconnect between the books. Also, at some point, Pythos has been settled by miners, but the Damnation book made it abundantly clear that the planet was uninhabitable, and that was from the perspective of Legionaries!
Also, in Damantion, the Grey Kngihts didn't even exist, so how in the world is there an 'original' Grey Knight standing guard for 10K years outside of stasis bubble that has 10K subjective year old psykers in it. WTF.

On page 255: it states that Malcador brought 12 men and women before the Emp to form the Inquisition. I thought it was people, and almost all were space marines?
Page 392: Abaddon captures Epimetheus, which I guess is *******ized classic Greek for the occlusion of knowledge (PROmetheus being the titan who gave man fire, a symbol of knowledge). There's a couple allusions to it, and Abaddon asks if he is the former Ultramarine, and even mentions that he killed one of Malcador's space marines. Who did Abaddon kill? And finally, he mentions on page 393: "Oh the irony.... the brother of ten who became the brother of eight. Azrael would tear this planet apart if he knew who you were." So who the heck is Epimethius?

What is the fate of Caldor Draigo that Corpulax speaks of?

On page 406: Caldor Draigo accuses Azrael of capturing and imprisoning Epimethius, and then references the other secrets of the Dark Angels, and the last sentence of the paragraph makes it seem like Azrael did take Epimethius prisoner, which turns out to be false in the epilogue.Previously, Caldor hinted that he knows what Azrael has locked away in the dungeons of the Rock. Is he referencing Luther? Is Luther even still around???

The very last sentence of the epilogue indicates that Epimetheus was one of the founders of the Grey Knights, but it's still vague (very frustrating), and Abaddon has him prisoner and gave Epimetheus's progenoids to Fabius Bile. What does Fabius do with these progenoids, and what happens to Epimethius?


All and all, I feel like this book was written for the sole purpose of NOT filling in any gaps, but creating more mystery.

[Dalleron]

alright. There is nothing connecting the battle novel to the HH book. Nothing beyond the setting. A lost opportunity in my mind.

I'm not going to give years for this because I don't have that much free time. Damnation takes place shorty after Istvaan 5 iirc, and the battle novel in the current setting. If the Imperium wants to settle a planet, it will. They have terra formed many planets. A death world doesn't mean its uninhabitable, its just very, very dangerous. Moving on.

The 12 men were the marines who would form the Grey Knights, 8 of them, and the other were the ones who would set up the Inquisition ordo's, Malleus, xenos and such.

Look up Epimethius on lexicanum.com. It's the most commonly accepted idea of his story.

Drago's fate refers to him being sucked into the warp allowed to briefly return to the material world, a curse of a greater demon of tzeentch. That was previous GK book fluff for Drago, I'm not up on his current fluff.

Yes, Luthor is still around, he's in stasis i believe in a super secret dungeon on the Rock. Only chapter masters of the Dark Angels know this. This is in the DA codex, and the last couple versions of it as well. Assumingly, this is what Drago says he knows. This irks me that Drago thinks he knows Dark Angel secrets.

Nothing I know of has been written as sequel to the Battle novel. All you need to know is the 2 books are completely separate entities that take place on the same planet.