The Advancement of Psychic powers in 40k

[papa smurf]

Hey everybody, papa smurf here.

With the new tyranid codex out, the great devourer is now more psychic than it ever was. The Doom of Maln'tai is on everyone's nerves for rules, the shadow of the warp is smothering the powers of enemy psykers (as it should), and tyranids can do stuff like grant feel no pain, run and shoot, reduce weapon skills and ballistic skills, and even regain lost wounds by killing enemies. not to mention that strength 10 lance...

tyranids aren't the only ones to get on the psychic bandwagon though. Space Wolves have some pretty nasty powers for being space vikings, Jaws of the World Wolf being the one with arguably the most notoriety, Imperial guard have the potent psychic battle squad, and space marines have the option of using two powers a turn, epistolaries being pretty powerful beasts.

and with the new blood angels coming out with supposed librarian dreadnaughts and the monster that is mephiston, the it looks to me like there's more psychic smackdown to come.

What do you guys think? do you think GW is upping the psychic anty every time they release a new codex, or maybe it's just a phase? is it a good thing or a bad thing that psykers seem to be on the rise? I want to know what you all think and don't get consumed by the warp by thinking too hard :D

[Absolutionis]

Only Space Eolves were a shock. I still don't think it fits their fluff.

Either way, some armies such as Imperial Guard and Orks have psyhics, but they're not amazing. The codex reflects this. Space Marines and Tyranids are supposed to have some good psykers and the codex reflects this.
When Codex Tau and Codex Necrons and Codex Black Templar and Codex World Eaters comes out, I don't expect any of their psykers to be powerful (or exist at all).
When Codex Eldar and Codex Thousand Sons comes out, I expect them to have amazing psykers.

The psychic abilities reflect the army rather well. Psychics are just game mechanics with another name. Those without heavy access to psykers have different avenues.

Imperial Guard orders are akin to psychics. They pass a leadership check and something happens. The 4thEd Eldar basically do the same thing only they have a different flavor.

[sirrouga]

I think GW realized that psychic powers need to be more worthwhile if they are going to be used. Look at the Space Marine Librarian, most people will tell you that only half of their powers are ever worth taking at all. Why risk perils of the warp if the benefit you get is hardly worth it after all. Making them more direct and/or more powerful increases their usefulness and means they are bought more often.

The Tyranids were always psychic monsters. Blood Angels were also high on the psychic crazy scale, I just hope they are "balanced" around what the vanilla Space Marine codex powers are and not the Space wolves powers. Space Wolves having some of the best psychic powers when they are supposed to be against them annoys me more than it really should. :P

[Melissia]

Either way, some armies such as Imperial Guard and Orks have psyhics, but they're not amazing.
I would actually argue that Imperial Guard battle psykers would be, on average, more offensively powerful (as far as psychic powers go, at any rate) than most librarians.

Psykers attached to the Imperial Guard typically are very assigned there for a specific reason, and any offensively specializing Imperial Guard Psyker would be very capable in that aspect. In comparison, a Librarian's primary functions do not lie on the battlefield. Not all psykers attached to the Guard are battle psykers mind you, as not all psykers are capable of that-- some are telepaths that are used to do loyalty tests or interrogate prisoners, for example, while others are powerful seers attempting to enhance the intelligence data that the army has with their own powers.

Also, Ork Weirdboyz are some of the most powerful and dangerous psykers in the galaxy, and a talented Weirdboy at the head of a huge WAAAGH! and supplied with enough WAAAGH! energies can wipe out entire armies with a single psychic power. The Ork psychology only enhances their dangerous nature.

[papa smurf]

On the topic of imperial psykers, what do you guys think of primaris psykers? I'm not a guard player, so i know very little about these guys.

[Melissia]

Primaris Psykers are, fluff-wise, actually quite accurate AFAIK. Some Psykers are indeed given command positions, and these are usually quite powerful and skilled psykers (after all, they would not want to give an unskilled psyker a command position...). As for in-game, 2d6 s6 shots is nothing to sneeze at, and he has a force weapon. A pity he doesn't have a retinue though, which really makes his force weapon kinda meh-ish, as he can be specifically targeted in close combat and he isn't exactly durable there.

[Kahoolin]

On the topic of imperial psykers, what do you guys think of primaris psykers? I'm not a guard player, so i know very little about these guys.I've only used one once (as my HQ in a 500 pt game) and he was cut down by bolter fire before he could use his force weapon. For the two turns he was alive though he used nightshroud to successfully protect his unit from fire, and then killed some marines with his lightning arc thingy. IMO he's pretty cheap points wise for what you get. I like the idea of them, fluffwise they are cool and I'd try him out again for sure.

On topic, I think it's a good thing that psychic powers are having an impact on the game again. I'm one of those people who used sanctioned psykers and wierdboyz last edition even though they sucked, because nothing really says 40k to me more than psykers. Without the warp it's just boring old regular space ships and little (or big) green men.

[RocketRollRebel]

I agree that the Space Marine chapter that is the most suspicious of psykers having some of the best psychic powers is a little weird but I do like this trend. When I started the game around the middle part of 4th ed, I felt that psychic powers were a cool element but way under used and under powered.

I'm very curious to see what the new Eldar (especially Eldrad) and a revised CSM (especially tzeentch) look like. Thats should be appropriately nasty.:p

So yeah I think its a great thing.

[Force21]

I'm very curious to see what the new Eldar (especially Eldrad) and a revised CSM (especially tzeentch) look like. Thats should be appropriately nasty.:p

Yeah if anything they should make Eldrad & Ahriman the most powerful Psykers in the game.


but I have never used Psykers at all...:(

as IG Battle Psykers & Primaris Psykers are the only thing I can use... for the longest time I had no models for em...

but I made 2 Santioned Psykers with just extra bits that I had.

I have not used them yet though...

[Hairy Piggy]

Psykers are pretty cool all in all- guys (and gals) who can shoot lighning blots, read peoples minds etc. with nothing but a thought are, by definition, awesome. The only thing that would be bad was if psykers became overbearingly powerful, the must have unit in every army.

And the Tau must feel a bit left out, having no psykers OR psyker defence could render them weak against heavily psychic armies.

[LoverzCry]

I miss it when my eldar were the epidemy of psychic warfare... T_T *weeps and prays for new codex* But I have to admit, having an older codex makes it more fun and challenging to come up with good solid lists : P Then again, the Eldar codex has always been beastly as hell! ; 3

[Kahoolin]

And the Tau must feel a bit left out, having no psykers OR psyker defence could render them weak against heavily psychic armies.If the trend of decent psykers continues they'll have to give the Tau allies who are either psykers or nulls.

[Madness]

Or more guns. I wish they didn't break the "design rule" of warpless tau armies, it's nice to have some diversity.

[papa smurf]

they could probably come up with some fluffy psyker nullification device, and still stick to the guns/wargear only mentality

[Faultie]

If the trend of decent psykers continues they'll have to give the Tau allies who are either psykers or nulls.
The Nicassar are described as very powerful Psykers, and Kroot "shamans" are also referenced as possessing psyker abilities (although not to such a substantial degree).

That said, I don't know how much of this we'll see in the next codex.

[RocketRollRebel]

The Nicassar are described as very powerful Psykers, and Kroot "shamans" are also referenced as possessing psyker abilities (although not to such a substantial degree).

That said, I don't know how much of this we'll see in the next codex.

Thats what I was thinking but I would rather they stay weak psykers with reasonable psychic defense. It would get pretty boring if every army had its own "super psyker" but so far GW has been doing a good job at avoiding that. Like IG and Orks have interesting and at least useful psykers while some armys like SW (still cant get my head around it but meh) and Tyranids and SM have awesome psykers that appear in most lists.

Eldrad and Ahriman should be the tits as far as psykers go tho. Just saying.

[Cyberscape7]

Im really hoping that necrons get some form of psychic powers in their new dex, Any1 got any ideas wat could be included?

[Kahoolin]

Necrons? Isn't the warp their arch nemesis? I thought there was fluff connecting human blanks to necrons.

[papa smurf]

my guess for "psychic" necron powers in a new dex would be no psychic powers per-se, but relics and powers of the star gods that could dish out the pain as well as some major psychic nullification. :D

[Morgrim]

I'm wondering if DE will get more than their current solo psykerish thing, the Crucible of Malediction (chance to instakill a psyker once per game). I can't see them actually getting any powers of their own since it is repeatedly stated that practising psykic powers in the dark city will get you handed over to the haemonculi.

[Sonofthelion]

As Far as Necrons Go they should beef up pariahs or lower their points significantly in order to combat psychers as they cannot have psychic powers at least in the sense that the other races do as they are not warp sensitive, though there are a few loopholes in the fluff that might allow something similar to psychic powers. 1. It is Actually the C'tan who are opposed to the warp not the necrons though being servants to the C'tan means that they have to do whatever is necessary to protect their masters which would perish or at least be threatened by them if the were to cultivate warp sensitivity. okay i guess the first point does not really allow for psychic powers that involve the warp...so onto the second possiblity 2. In the Tyranid Codex perils of the warp are still in affect but in actuality represent their "brains frying" or some similar phenomena therefore the rules for the psychic powers do not necessarily have to deal with the warp they can deal with different phenomena from a fluff standpoint but could function the same from a rules standpoint...that being said, I would imagine that if the necrons were to have powers they would probally be orientated toward combating the powers of the warp, either reflecting or absorbing the powers of the other races, perhaps even their life energy in the case of the C'tan which i would definitely like to see the other two though if the dragon ever awakes the imperium will be in alot of trouble.. that is just in theory, In actuality items and abilities that represent their anti-warp/null tendencies

If anyone actually gets though this entire rant gets a cookie!

[sebi81]

i remember the time in 2nd edition when a 600 points grey knight unit cleared half the table with a vortex of doom... so i don´t think that the powers that are rising in the new codices are too powerful. in third edition they reduced the abilities of characters and with them the psyker abilities. the card system, that made the psychic powers a completely own phase with own rules, were gone. that change was necessary to make the game faster and better, but they did a bit too much in my opinion. most 3rd and 4th edition psy powers weren´t a good deal and the dark angels oder space wolves psykers for example were only good because of their psy weapons and the orks lost their psykers comlpetely.
psykers should be powerful not just a captain with a sword that can instant kill.
tau, necrons and dark eldar shouldn´t have psychic powers because of their fluff... but the psychic powers aren´t such game breaking that armys without them could not win.

[Bedroom General]

Maybe, just maybe giving the etherials the abillity to shut down all psychic powers would make them worth taking at last. And boy wouldn't you want to kill em fast!

[DarkLink]

Maybe, just maybe giving the etherials the abillity to shut down all psychic powers would make them worth taking at last. And boy wouldn't you want to kill em fast!

But how would they shut down psychic powers? How you you justify a non-psychic race being better at psychic stuff than any of the far more advanced, far more powerful and far more psychic armies out there, like Eldar?

[scadugenga]

But how would they shut down psychic powers? How you you justify a non-psychic race being better at psychic stuff than any of the far more advanced, far more powerful and far more psychic armies out there, like Eldar?

Well, despite the fact that fluff-wise, the Eldar are supposed to be the epitome of technological advancement, and the Tau blow them away in that respect...I'm sure GW could find a way to rationalize it.

Not that they should, nor hopefully will they.

That being said, the last time the Eldar were truly kings of the psychic "phase" was in 2nd Ed. Warlock Masters, anyone? ;)

Bringing Doom back helped to bring them back into the running with 4th ed. but they're definitely trailing behind the pack nowadays.

[imperialsavant]

[QUOTE=Absolutionis;57677]Only Space Eolves were a shock. I still don't think it fits their fluff.

Either way, some armies such as Imperial Guard and Orks have psyhics, but they're not amazing. The codex reflects this. Space Marines and Tyranids are supposed to have some good psykers and the codex reflects this.
When Codex Tau and Codex Necrons and Codex Black Templar and Codex World Eaters comes out, I don't expect any of their psykers to be powerful (or exist at all).
*****SNIP******

:eek: Horror of Horrors that Black Templars should EVER be given Psysic Powers. They HATE psykers to the point they will not ally with an army that has Librarians. They only ally with Grey Knights because the Inquisition guarentees them & the Emperor created them to destroy Daemons. Come to think on it Sisters of Battle dont have psykic powers either which is why the BTs will fight alongside them. They wont ally with Radical Inqs. either.;)

[DarkLink]

Well, despite the fact that fluff-wise, the Eldar are supposed to be the epitome of technological advancement, and the Tau blow them away in that respect...I'm sure GW could find a way to rationalize it.


No, Eldar are significantly more advanced than Tau. Tau are simply advancing technologically much faster than anyone else, rising to a level of technology comparable to the Imperium in a few thousand years, rather than 40 thousand.

[Melissia]

Mind you the Imperium has actually regressed, so it's not as if that's entirely surprising.

[scadugenga]

No, Eldar are significantly more advanced than Tau. Tau are simply advancing technologically much faster than anyone else, rising to a level of technology comparable to the Imperium in a few thousand years, rather than 40 thousand.

Could've fooled me on the battlefield then.

I mean, the Cat used to be the "go-to" basic weapon of choice. Then it got nerfed. Hard.

Now the Tau come in, with the best basic weapon in the game, bar none. Tau firepower surpasses the Eldar in almost every respect.

If they're still progressing...I hate to see what they'll be in the next edition!

[Nabterayl]

Could've fooled me on the battlefield then.

I mean, the Cat used to be the "go-to" basic weapon of choice. Then it got nerfed. Hard.
Well, that's kind of the point, right? On the tabletop, eldar don't feel very advanced - since they're choppier than the Tau, their shootiness is less than the Tau; since they're shootier than many other armies, their choppiness is less than many armies. Pretty much the only areas in which the eldar feel advanced on the tabletop are their jetbikes and their vehicles. But we all feel like the tabletop has diverged from the "real" eldar tech situation, right?

But in terms of fluff, I think it's worth noting that eldar weaponry has never been portrayed as all that fabulous. Fluff-wise it's usually better than human equivalents, but not really by all that much. Eldar technological superiority shows mostly in really huge projects such as the webway and craftworlds, or in psychic arenas such as soul stones (I mean, think about it, they have a machine that can capture your soul so that it can direct other machines ... you have to admit that's fairly high-tech). I think they can still win the "most technologically advanced overall award."

[scadugenga]

I started playing Eldar in Rogue Trader days. Back then, (and in 2nd ed) the Eldar were the kings of weapon tech.

They still have some neat toys, but they've been downgraded significantly.


And I don't consider fluff to be a part of the tech hierarchy. ;)

[Nabterayl]

I started playing Eldar in Rogue Trader days. Back then, (and in 2nd ed) the Eldar were the kings of weapon tech.
Yeah, but only in the sense that they had better weapons. They were better, but not orders and orders of magnitude better. When you consider that the eldar have been spacefaring genetically engineered supersoldiers for something like 60,040,000 years, that's pretty underwhelming :p If one went solely by their weapons tech, as evidenced solely by the various editions of the tabletop, one would be forced to conclude that eldar as a species are pretty phenomenally bad weapons engineers :p

[Duke]

I just like to think that they are great weapons engineers, they just lost most of their capabilities when their whole area of the galaxy exploded. Much like we would if all the sudden the majority of the earth was covered in water.

Duke

[Melissia]

Don't! Don't reference that movie.

[Nabterayl]

Why? It's not a myth.








I'VE SEEN IT! :D

[Melissia]

So have I.


So have I....

[DarkLink]

Ahh, yes, the dangers of monohydrogen dioxide...

[Nabterayl]

Uh, monohydrogen dioxide can be fairly dangerous, yeah ...

[Duke]

Whats worse is Dihydrogen monoxide! I hate that stuff, lmao.

Duke

P.S. One of my favourite things to do is to go to a resturant and order Dihydrogen Monoxide. I love it when they give me this confused look and say "Ummm, I don't think we have that sir."

[DarkLink]

Heh, oops. 's why I'm not a chemistry major.

[MVBrandt]

Whats worse is Dihydrogen monoxide! I hate that stuff, lmao.

Duke

P.S. One of my favourite things to do is to go to a resturant and order Dihydrogen Monoxide. I love it when they give me this confused look and say "Ummm, I don't think we have that sir."

Do you want your Dihydrogen monoxide with gas, or flat?

[DarkLink]

Do you want your Dihydrogen monoxide with gas, or flat?

I don't know how people like carbonated water:confused:.

Nor do I know how a thread on psychic powers turned into a thread on urban legend pranks:rolleyes:.