Tau vs Space marines Boxed Set

[Bigred]

The initial rumors:

via Steve the Warboss 3-20-2015


- New boxed set for Warhammer 40,000
- Released autumn 2015
- Space Marines vs Tau

via Birds in the Trees 3-22-2015


Tau Empire Release Info

New updated XV-?? battlesuit / Commander-battlesuit combo kit.
New kit is strongly based on the current Commander suit, but not identical.
New Kit is designed for much more dynamic assembly & posing options than the current range.

Many new Kroot models are on ice, but may be spun off into a separate release (Codex: Kroot Mercenaries)

via Steve the Warboss 3-26-2015


Two boxed sets coming this year:

-Dark Angels vs. Chaos Marines (July)
-Space Marines vs. Tau Empire (October)

via Lords of War (https://www.facebook.com/Lordsofwargaming?fref=ts) (facebook) 3-28-2015

Regarding the Space Marine vs Tau boxed set:

Raven guard vs Tau and should be out before Tau release.

via Lords of War (https://www.facebook.com/Lordsofwargaming?fref=ts) (facebook) 6-4-2015


Here are some parting truths about Tau:
They will have a new Fire Warrior box. Two types of units can be made.
New Crisis Suits
More commander suits
New Riptide sized Suit that has large missiles
Looks like a Tau Aegis Defense line with circular weapon platforms.
Don't know about the rules, so don't ask.

via Path Walker 7-20-2015


Tau will be next for 40K, not sure they'll get much new though, possibly just another "Codex and Cards" codex release. Looking like October for that, Age of Sigmar has a lot to get through release-wise.

via birds in the trees 7-22-2015


Look for Tau to return in September

Look for a new XV-?? Crisis Suit box

Box will include Commander bits

New suit is designed for more dynamic posing options

Not a giant release window for Tau, Codex, Cards, 1-2 new mini products

via an anonymous source (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/3ugWXhAGxZo/two-new-suits-for-tau.html) on Faeit: 8-25-2015


“The Tau Codex is coming, but no real ETA I can share at the moment. In it Tau will get 2 new suits, one larger than a riptide, another smaller than a riptide”

via BoLS 8-25-2015

As we are approaching September the first hard news is coming in to BoLS from retailers around the world:


The Tau XV8 Battlesuit Commander kit has been pulled from reorder availability early this week. Retailers tell us this is the usual sign for a new replcement kit coming very soon - usually 2 weeks out.

That would place a Tau Empire release in the September 12th or 19th timeframe - right on schedule.

via Bird in the Trees 8-26-2015


Tau Empire Release

September 12th

A "big" release (unknown if related to Tau Empire, but could be)

September 19th

Codex Tau Empire

Tau Empire Datacards

Tau Empire Painting Guide

New Plastic Battlesuit Commander (in a new size of package)

via multiple retailers 9-7-2015

The following kits have been pulled from compulsory restock by retailers:


Tau Fire Warriors
Tau XV8 Crisis Battlesuit Team


This means those kits will get replaced with either re-boxes, or updated models in the very near future.

Via DakkaDakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/651154.page#8123626) 9-15-2015

Riptide boxes have been recalled and store managers cannot order them in anymore as they are being repackaged with a new sprue for a missile variant.

Internal slip up revelealed October releases to the manager.

That brings the list of minis recalled from retailer mandatory reorder to this:

- Tau Commander
- Tau Crisis Suits
- Tau Fire Warriors
- Tau Riptide

via Craig A (https://twitter.com/TheRedSorcerer) (twitter) 9-15-2015

New Tau Minis
15794157951579615797

via anonymous (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/GwlWsjGgacY/additional-tau-release-information.html) (via Faeit) 9-17

Source 1
Fire warriors will be a dual kit.
No new sub-races for Tau (Kroot & Vepsid only), no model change for them.

Source 2
I believe Tau to be a three week release

Source 3
I saw the new Tau codex, unfortunately not the content but the front and back cover, front cover looks like the old codex with a crisis suit.

The new photo on the back cover is very interesting, everything is painted in white with:

1. New XV8 crisis suit, with new shoulder guard similar to current fire warriors and potentially new jetpack
2. New XV8 commander, with a new jet pack (may be the old one, but the jet pack and pose looks different)
3. New Ethereal (I think)
4. Some Tau specified terrains, sort of a watch tower and a sentry post kind of thing.
5. A new suit class, I think its larger than XV88 but smaller than Riptide, with the head of a stealth suit, unsure of the weapon load though
6. A new suit at the back of the photo, may be a dual kit with the above
7. A new massive suit, larger than Riptide! very bulky with a shoulder mounted rail cannon of sort (very big) and having very large missile pods instead of arms (kind of like a ******* child of Tomahawk from Macross and Zssa from Gundam ZZ, but no arms though)

via GW 9-28-2015
Tau Teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PHi9pYkqs

Ion accelerator: charged
Vectored retro-thrusters: online
Counterfire defence system: engaged
Positional relay: locked-on
Nova reactor: powered up
Failsafe detonator: primed

Our conquest is inevitable!

Be here on Saturday 3rd October to find out more.

via Tetrisphreak (imgur) (http://i.imgur.com/iJTZPmT.jpg) on Dakkadakka on 9-28-2015


KX128 Stormsurge Ballistic Suit
Retailers report cost of £90
1588115882

via El Ploplo (http://www.warhammer-forum.com/index.php?showtopic=231953&page=12) on warhammer-forum on 9-29-2015

WD #88 Pics (french)
158931589415895

[Brakkart]

Via Game Trust.de (http://www.gamestrust.de/news,warhammer-40-000-sternenreich-tau-bilder-weitere-stormsurge-shots-release-liste-teaser,id46194.html)9-30-2015


1590015901159021590315904159051590615907

via Faeit (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/10/next-weeks-releases-pricing-and-hint.html) 212 10-02-2015

XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit is the only release next week. The box comes with 3 miniatures, the Ghostkeel and 2 stealth drones costing £ 45/ €60/ $75 USD/ 90 Can/ AU 125/ NZ 150

From what I can see compared to other models near it it's very big, maybe
not riptide size but very close.

"Hints" for the week after can't be any more obvious lol -"The third
sphere expansion hits the Damocles Gulf!"

via an anonymous source on Faeit (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/tnb5lW0BZac/xv95-ghostkeel-model-and-special-rules.html)10-3-2015

A couple insights to the new Ghostkeel model and some special rules
1. The torso can be open or closed to show a pilot inside. Both a male and female Tau are included. A good thing to possibly magnetize.
2. The Sensor Arrays are on the battlesuit look the same as the Shadowsun's.
3. The Stealth Drones carry stealth emitters underneath replacing the standard weapons.

Regarding special rules- no infiltration
-Fire Team
-Stealth
-Supporting Fire

Countermeasures. Once per game, you can disrupt the targeting of an enemy unit, if it is targeting the Ghostkeel's unit, before dice are rolled. That unit can only make snap shots during that shooting phase.

via multiple retailers 10-5-2015

Tau XV95 Ghostkeel $75

Kit makes 1 XV95 and 2 Stealth Drones

Larger than a Broadside suit

Drones protect the XV95 from incoming fire



Tau Reboxes:

Devilfish

Pathfinders

Stealthsuits

Broadsides

Pirahna

--Original Post -----------

If the Space Marine's limited special character model is yet another Captain with a power fist I think I'll scream. A little variety would be nice.

[DrBored]

If the Space Marine's limited special character model is yet another Captain with a power fist I think I'll scream. A little variety would be nice.

Power Fist and a Plasma Pistol. You can't forget the Plasma Pistol.

This seriously seems like a shot in the dark from Steve the Warboss though. C'mon man. I don't have any sources, but I could have made this up off of info we already have regarding previous rumors.

[Deadlift]

If the Space Marine's limited special character model is yet another Captain with a power fist I think I'll scream. A little variety would be nice.

I wouldn't mind seeing a set without marines at all.

[Wolfshade]

I wouldn't mind seeing a set without marines at all.

Sounds a little close to heresey!

I had thought that we had seen this combo in the past. But then I realised 3rd was DE not tau, tau were just heavily pushed.

[Erik Setzer]

Sounds a little close to heresey!

I had thought that we had seen this combo in the past. But then I realised 3rd was DE not tau, tau were just heavily pushed.

Tau weren't part of the game when 3rd edition started. They got added after a bit.

[Wolfshade]

Tau weren't part of the game when 3rd edition started. They got added after a bit.

Yeah I know

[Kirsten]

I wonder if a tau starter set would mean a plastic crisis suit commander. that would be awesome.

[deinol]

All I really want is an IG vs Eldar box.

Ok, I would buy any box with Eldar, IG, or Sisters in it.

[Kirsten]

ooh, sisters and necrons, do sanctuary 101. that would be amazeballs.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

ooh, sisters and necrons, do sanctuary 101. that would be amazeballs.

I'd be on that, two armies I love!

Or Mechancium vs Dark eldar.

[Defenestratus]

Seahawks vs Chargers.


While we're all wishlisting....

[Arkhan Land]

digganobs versus chaos squats

[40kGamer]

digganobs versus chaos squats

Those are pretty obscure forces... How about some Zoats vs Squats.... cause why not? :p

[DrBored]

I vote for Hrud versus Sslyth.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Seahawks vs Chargers.


While we're all wishlisting....
I like the way you think. Hopefully being from Alabama you're a Chargers fan.

Yeah, the chances of a starter kit, or really any of these intermediate kits like Deathstorm or Stormclaw, without Space Marines seems like it hovers around zero.

Which is a shame. But it's the nature of the business. Space Marines sell, so Space Marines get pushed. I mean, it would like being mad at the flower industry for pushing roses.

- - - Updated - - -


Those are pretty obscure forces... How about some Zoats vs Squats.... cause why not? :p

Would buy, lol.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I vote for Hrud versus Sslyth.

/\ DrBored wins this one I think. I would buy 8 of those.

[William Lang]

I'd be on that, two armies I love!

Or Mechancium vs Dark eldar.Mechancium vs Necrons

[Ravingbantha]

There was talk of a Thousand Sons vs. Sisters of Battle box set.

[Wolfshade]

So is this a campaign box like the recent BA vs Nid?

If so it would be really cool, it was always a little irritating that there was just 1 starter box (though I understand the issues of practicality)

[Lurker]

Morkanaut vs. Gorkanaut in an all out sumo match to the DEFF!

[Bigred]

via Birds in the Trees 3-22-2015


Tau Empire Release Info

New updated XV-?? battlesuit / Commander-battlesuit combo kit.
New kit is strongly based on the current Commander suit, but not identical.
New Kit is designed for much more dynamic assembly & posing options than the current range.

Many new Kroot models are on ice, but may be spun off into a separate release (Codex: Kroot Mercenaries)

[eldargal]

More interesting than Marines vs Different Marines.

[musical-fool]

Haven't BL just re-released the Damocles story books?

The Damocles would fit into a Stormclaw type idea, no?

[Kirsten]

new plastic crisis suits would be one of those things tau players have been wanting for many years

[YorkNecromancer]

new plastic crisis suits would be one of those things tau players have been wanting for many years

Speaking as someone who's just been doing quite a lot of conversion of the current Crisis Suit model (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?53875-Farside-Enclave-Five-of-The-Eight), I will say this for them: I am never scared of making them look worse.

The arms are terrible - monoposed and ugly. The legs are the same, only ridiculously, hilariously fragile at the ankles. Not to mention the GOOD CHILDBEARING HIPS of the dumbass ball joints. Then you've got the chest/groin pieces are so lacking in detail/definition it's untrue. They look like the old Action Force power armour from, like, 1981 or something.

http://www.vintagestarwarscollectables.co.uk/images/Action%20Force/Full%20Size/Vehicles/Escape%20Armour%20-%20The%20Enemy/Action%20Force-599.jpg

Don't get me wrong; I do like them. They're fun to convert (really fun; like I say, you can't make them look worse) and all, but anyone who thinks the current Crisis Suits don't need updating needs to compare them to literally any current kit. They're shamefully bad by modern standards.

[Defenestratus]

Go away Tau.

You're getting the way of Eldar releases :)

[Charistoph]

They look like the old Action Force power armour from, like, 1981 or something.

http://www.vintagestarwarscollectables.co.uk/images/Action%20Force/Full%20Size/Vehicles/Escape%20Armour%20-%20The%20Enemy/Action%20Force-599.jpg

Heh, Hasbro had those white for Cobra in their G.I. Joe line. Had one, too. The real funny part was the fluff said they were almost as clumsy as the toy/model looked!

But, yeah. I was really hoping they'd take time to remake the Crisis Suits for the last codex release, but I will concede that Pathfinders needed them more (official ones were metal), as did the Kroot auxiliary models.

Part of me wishes all the kits weren't just "Moah Space Mawines" vs "Something else". Maybe when Sisters get a plastic line, maybe? Or the next IG/AM release?

[Bigred]

via Steve the Warboss 3-26-2015


Two boxed sets coming this year:

-Dark Angels vs. Chaos Marines (July)
-Space Marines vs. Tau Empire (October)

[Defenestratus]

via Steve the Warboss 3-26-2015

Poor Steve must be mistaken.

We already have a Dork Angels vs CSM boxed set called "Dark Vengeance"

[Path Walker]

Does steve ever report anything that comes true without other, more reliable rumour mongers saying it first?

Lords of War Gaming say the boxed set it Tau vs Raven Guard and ties in to Damocles.

[Popsical]

There was talk of a Thousand Sons vs. Sisters of Battle box set.

Oh boy did this make me laugh!
If there ever was a hopeless optimistic wish, its that.
Sorry, no offense meant bantha.

[Mud Duck]

It was a rumor posted on the main page, like two or three months ago. So quiet you! Hopeless optimize is the mainstay of Sister players!
one day. one day soon......

[WyattAyars]

Yeas! They need to do this!!!

[Lord Commissar Maxwell]

All I really want is an IG vs Eldar box.

Ok, I would buy any box with Eldar, IG, or Sisters in it.

Now that sounds like a box set that I could get behind!

[Kirsten]

I'd be all over Tau and Raven Guard

[DrBored]

I'd be all over Tau and Raven Guard

But it won't be.

It'll be Tau vs. Ultramarines.

C'mon guys, we all know how much GW loves to recycle fluff.

[Kirsten]

we have no idea what it will be, that is a bit silly.

It could just as easily be Raven Guard, there are absolutely zero reasons to assume it would be Ultramarines

[Erik Setzer]

"Sales of blue paint are lagging!"
"We have blue Space Marines and blue skinned aliens who sometimes wear blue armor. We could package them in a box together?"
"BRILLIANT!"

[deinol]

I'd be all over Tau and Raven Guard

I play Raptors, so I'd be tempted by that.

[DrBored]

we have no idea what it will be, that is a bit silly.

It could just as easily be Raven Guard, there are absolutely zero reasons to assume it would be Ultramarines

Funny, now that you say that, apparently Lords of WarGaming said that it's going to be Tau vs. Raven Guard. So, your wish just came true?

[Kirsten]

somebody mentioned it here on the previous page :p

[Lord Commissar Maxwell]

I'd be all over Tau and Raven Guard

Or Tau and White Scars

[Kirsten]

those too. we have had ultramarines, blood angels, dark angels, and space wolves, so I think raven guard or white scars are entirely possible.

[ShadowcatX]

Or Tau and White Scars

That would be my dream.

[Bigred]

via Lords of War (https://www.facebook.com/Lordsofwargaming?fref=ts) (facebook) 3-28-2015

Regarding the Space Marine vs Tau boxed set:

Raven guard vs Tau and should be out before Tau release.

[Kirsten]

sounds great, but when is that? :p

[Thornblood]

Raven guard vs tau sounds great. They havnt been given there own sub faction codex yet and shrike is one of the protagonists of the tau warzone where riptides are first used. Damocles perhaps? Also works as an escalating battle/campaign as white scars and Knights were involved.

[Gabriel Cohen]

Anyone notice the tau codex is no longer available on the gw site?

You think the new codex is coming sooner than we think?

[Bigred]

via Lords of War (https://www.facebook.com/Lordsofwargaming?fref=ts) (facebook) 6-4-2015


Here are some parting truths about Tau:
They will have a new Fire Warrior box. Two types of units can be made.
New Crisis Suits
More commander suits
New Riptide sized Suit that has large missiles
Looks like a Tau Aegis Defense line with circular weapon platforms.
Don't know about the rules, so don't ask.

[Kirsten]

please please please be true, I need more battle suits.

[Houghten]

I'm going to start salting away funds for battlesuits now, just in case it's true. When October rolls around I should be able to buy a couple of full squads and a plastic commander without guiltily looking over my shoulder.

...and if it's not true, I can either blow it on Armada, which should have Wave 2 by then, or absorb it into the Sisters Fund.

[Kirsten]

if it isn't true I shall use my tau savings to find the rumours mongers, rip their arms off, and beat them to death with the wet ends.

[Lord Mayhem]

Presuming the new FW box will dual kit with Pathfinders. If so, since the sprues will/should have special weapons, what is the chance that FW might get a special rifle per squad?

The new Riptide size model sounds interesting with "Large missiles" Seeker missiles? Heavy Missile pods? Something entirely new?

Not sure if'n I'll be pleased or annoyed if Tau codex/ models come out this year; Good news- new toys...I mean models. Bad news...3 of my 4 Armies (Eldar, Harlies and Tau, missing only 'Nids) in one year, Oh my poor aching wallet!. And I thought 2013 was bad! At least my Tau and Eldar collections are big enough to not need many new models

[Houghten]

They just put out a new Pathfinders kit, I can't see it being replaced so soon. The new option will be something new.

[Mr Mystery]

if it isn't true I shall use my tau savings to find the rumours mongers, rip their arms off, and beat them to death with the wet ends.

Can I come to point and laugh?

[40kGamer]

They just put out a new Pathfinders kit, I can't see it being replaced so soon. The new option will be something new.

Tau Assault troops!

[Houghten]

Special rule: STRUGGLE

Instead of making attacks normally, roll a d3. The Tau unit suffers that many wounds; the enemy unit suffers double the number

[LighthouseM]

They just put out a new Pathfinders kit, I can't see it being replaced so soon. The new option will be something new.

Honestly the thing that makes most sense are Gue'vesa Auxillary

[Mr Mystery]

Tau Assault troops!

Bloody hope not.

[Lord Mayhem]

Bloody hope not.

I dunno, the "Struggle" suggestion sounds amusing :)

[Houghten]

I should hope it's amusing, on account of it's a joke: specifically, a Pokémon reference. STRUGGLE is the move you use when all your other moves are out of PP, and does half as much damage to the user as the target.

[ksoh75]

This is the only way GW will get money out of me if the Tau are redone and redone right this time.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

I would personally much prefer a Tau vs. Imperial Guard boxed set. It would most likely be priced significantly higher though, due to increased model count.

Were I at GW, I would certainly be trying to get people into playing Imperial Gua... I mean, Astra Militarum, since the model count for an army is so high. That's like padding your stats in a big way. I'd even add the Baneblade as a Lord of War to the codex next time it's released. Because those things are so cool EVERYBODY WANTS SOME...

[Bigred]

via Path Walker 7-20-2015


Tau will be next for 40K, not sure they'll get much new though, possibly just another "Codex and Cards" codex release. Looking like October for that, Age of Sigmar has a lot to get through release-wise.

via birds in the trees 7-22-2015


Look for Tau to return in September

Look for a new XV-?? Crisis Suit box

Box will include Commander bits

New suit is designed for more dynamic posing options

Not a giant release window for Tau, Codex, Cards, 1-2 new mini products

[Kirsten]

this better be true as well, new book and new crisis suits. don't care about anything else.

[Wizzardx3]

I'll believe it, when I see it on the shelves.
Besides... I thought we were getting another demonkin book first?

[Cutter]

I bought the last two, probably get this one as well.

[Ivarr]

@Ksoh75: Could you do me a favor and upload a copy of your rewrite of the rules...I would love to give it a once over and some positive feedback.

[ksoh75]

Wasn't mine dude.

[Bigred]

via an anonymous source (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/3ugWXhAGxZo/two-new-suits-for-tau.html) on Faeit: 8-25-2015


“The Tau Codex is coming, but no real ETA I can share at the moment. In it Tau will get 2 new suits, one larger than a riptide, another smaller than a riptide”

[Bigred]

As we are approaching September the first hard news is coming in to BoLS from retailers around the world:

15524

The Tau XV8 Battlesuit Commander kit has been pulled from reorder availability early this week. Retailers tell us this is the usual sign for a new replcement kit coming very soon - usually 2 weeks out.

That would place a Tau Empire release in the September 12th or 19th timeframe - right on schedule.

[Mr Mystery]

Interesting....

Though it could be as simple as they're going for Finecast stuff to be direct only?

[Kirsten]

I hope it is true, I would buy loads of new suits.

[40kGamer]

More suits with the hands out would be a welcome surprise.

[Gamgee]

It looks highly probable these 3 are true from before.
1. Crisis Suit updated.
2. Crisis Suir Commander updated
3. New Riptide (larger in this case) suit likely focused on missiles.

The new small suit is a head scratcher though. So its a brand new thing not hinted at. It could in some way relate to the FW updated kit/split into new troops rumor or it could be all new.

In the maybe zone:
New small suit.

These are less sure from previous rumors.
1. New Troop choice made from a dual FW/New Troop kit.
2. Terrain/fortification.

[Bigred]

via Bird in the Trees 8-26-2015


Tau Empire Release

September 12th

A "big" release (unknown if related to Tau Empire, but could be)

September 19th

Codex Tau Empire

Tau Empire Datacards

Tau Empire Painting Guide

New Plastic Battlesuit Commander (in a new size of package)

[Mr Mystery]

More suits with the hands out would be a welcome surprise.

It would be.....handy....

[Kirsten]

The new small suit is a head scratcher though. So its a brand new thing not hinted at. It could in some way relate to the FW updated kit/split into new troops rumor or it could be all new.


the small suit could simply be the new crisis suits, they are smaller than a riptide after all

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

And I'm wondering if they've mistaken that Forgeworld mahooosive suit for something plastic?

[Gamgee]

the small suit could simply be the new crisis suits, they are smaller than a riptide after all

It could be but don't they usually call those "updated kits" not actually new ones. I mean they are new but not new. If that makes any sort of sense. Which is what's throwing me. Which is also why I said the new suit was a maybe since it could just be their unclear jargon for an updated XV8 kit which is technically new.

[Kirsten]

I would certainly find the idea of a new suit smaller than a riptide a lot more plausible than a new plastic suit bigger than a riptide. as Mr Mystery says, I certainly think it is possible someone has seen the Forge World Supremacy armour and made a leap

[Gamgee]

I would certainly find the idea of a new suit smaller than a riptide a lot more plausible than a new plastic suit bigger than a riptide. as Mr Mystery says, I certainly think it is possible someone has seen the Forge World Supremacy armour and made a leap

Well... not necessarily. Months ago Lords of War gaming said we were going to be getting a new Riptide chassis sized suit focused on missiles. So far that rumor has seemed to be pretty accurate. It could also be that. Only time will tell.

[Kirsten]

I would be in favour of another riptide to add to my collection, and it could be that. but again, 'riptide variant' is not 'bigger than a riptide'

either way, I hope these rumours are broadly true, it just seems unlikely they are fully accurate at face value.

[Gamgee]

I would be in favour of another riptide to add to my collection, and it could be that. but again, 'riptide variant' is not 'bigger than a riptide'

either way, I hope these rumours are broadly true, it just seems unlikely they are fully accurate at face value.

Oh yeah at this point there's so many of them it's hard to say which ones are true. But it does indicate that the Tau codex is coming and it's going to be big. A much needed thing since we've got the smallest selection of units.

[Kirsten]

if it is a codex and a new crisis suit kit, I will be over the moon. at the moment that is all I really want. anything on top of that is a bonus.

[Gamgee]

if it is a codex and a new crisis suit kit, I will be over the moon. at the moment that is all I really want. anything on top of that is a bonus.

I've said before if any three of these rumors come true I want.
1. Updated Crisis
2. New Riptide or slightly bigger than Riptide variant depending on rumors. The missile focused one.
3. The new troops allegedly in a new FW kit. So it would make a new troop.

[Kirsten]

a completely new choice would be cool. I have always really liked the FW hazard suits, something like that in plastic would be cool.

[Gamgee]

a completely new choice would be cool. I have always really liked the FW hazard suits, something like that in plastic would be cool.
Space Marine and Imperial players going to be so mad with this codex. :) And one for the elves too of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgY3rOOascY

[Bigred]

New Tau Suit Pic

via Lords of War Gaming (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154212936947796&set=o.422816981178419&type=1) (facebook) 8-31-2015


This photo appeared on facebook earlier today and is getting a lot of scrutiny.

15567

In particular, take a look at the torso/groin areas of the Crisis Suits. Note the waist, the fact that the torso on the left model is assembled off center.

15568

[Kirsten]

easier to see the differences of the one back left with the fusion gun, weapon mount position different, 'neck' protector and chest front armour like a riptide. plus the missile pods are clearly new. and the tau symbol has been added to the chest.

[Mr Mystery]

Either someone's gone to town with conversions, or those are definitely spangly new suits.

I'm hoping the latter.

[Grenndal]

some one said this picture was from the Farsight Enclave book. Anyone out there have the book and can verify?

[Kirsten]

yup, back page.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd380/KirstenIGMB/20150901_185541_zps4m47ikvo.jpg (http://s1216.photobucket.com/user/KirstenIGMB/media/20150901_185541_zps4m47ikvo.jpg.html)

it is a tricky one. it would be a hell of a lot of work to convert. I have built around 20 crisis suits, converted them to varying degrees. just to insert a waist for them would take a lot of effort, and they have been done beautifully. the one on the left has styling a lot like a broadside, but a broadside torso wouldn't match the legs or jet pack, it is obviously crisis suit sized. plus it is unusual to have conversions that aren't straight part swaps in official books. who knows though, if they are conversions, I want to see the work in progress, they are amazing.

[Kirsten]

Oh, What's New Today, 40k open day with Tau art work

[Bigred]

via multiple retailers 9-7-2015

The following kits have been pulled from compulsory restock by retailers:


Tau Fire Warriors
Tau XV8 Crisis Battlesuit Team


This means those kits will get replaced with either re-boxes, or updated models in the very near future.

[son_of_volmer]

I've heard people talk about new tau suit that "is completely new and no one has ever seen before". This makes me think it'll be a limited edition model akin to the Ork, Space Wolf, Blood Angel and Tyranid models that came in the campaign boxes. It would be really funny if the special rules for a limited edition tau model were that of the buff commander, and for all other intents and purposes he was removed from the codex.

[Kirsten]

getting closer, very exciting now. bring on the crisis suits.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

I foresee Fire Warriors with heavy weapon options, slightly different-looking crisis suits, and Iridium crisis suits with new drones for commanders. If there ends up being a boxed set (which I kinda doubt, now), I expect 12 fire warriors (with Ion rifle heavy weapon options), 10 kroot, and a commander in Iridium Crisis suit for the Tau. Not sure who they would go up against, though. White Scars maybe? a scout bikers squad, tactical marine squad, and a captain on a bike?

I would jump on that so fast... I doubt there's anyone on these boards who wouldn't buy THAT set!

[Defenestratus]

I would jump on that so fast... I doubt there's anyone on these boards who wouldn't buy THAT set!


Raises hand.

DONUT WANT.

[Kirsten]

I don't know that I would want heavy weapons in fire warrior squads, I like them as they are. some sort of support squad would be cool though.

[Mr Mystery]

Raises hand.

DONUT WANT.

Agreed.

Fire Warriors shouldn't have heavy weapons. It kind of goes against the theme of the army - that you have to construct a synergy, and then apply it. Just giving everyone super-dakka removes that need from forming a successful army and plan.

They're already a big threat to infantry (S5 hurts, even more so when their accuracy benefits from a token or two) and reasonably effective against light vehicles and rear armours.

[Kirsten]

I'd really like to see changes to the piranha. it takes up quite a bit of space on the table, with fairly underwhelming firepower.

[YorkNecromancer]

Agreed. I have no idea what it's even supposed to be, tactically speaking. It's like a Land Speeder, if a Land Speeder had a single special weapon instead of heavy weapons and was a huge target.

What is even the point of a Land Speeder with what is functionally zero firepower and no transport capacity?

[Kirsten]

exactly. I have never bought a piranha because I just don't see the point in them with their giant footprint and solitary gun. might as well take a lone crisis suit with two guns and deep strike.

[YorkNecromancer]

They're the Tau equivalent to the Pyrovore: a fragile, single hit unit armed with a special weapon, points-costed as though it was a heavy weapon.

Pretty model, but WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY DO?

[Kirsten]

unfortunately I doubt it will change before there is a new kit. I can't think of any way to improve the piranha without up-gunning it.

[Mr Mystery]

Teleport Homer type thing could work - kind of like the Pathfinder Devilfish has/had (not sure if it still exists).

Repackage with additional drone options to give them more dakka? Equipped with say, SMS they could be a bit more appealing, especially in a squadron.

[Kirsten]

yeah replacing the gun drones with missile drones or burst cannon drones, and dropping the centre weapon would be a big improvement

[Bigred]

Via DakkaDakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330/651154.page#8123626) 9-15-2015

Riptide boxes have been recalled and store managers cannot order them in anymore as they are being repackaged with a new sprue for a missile variant.

Internal slip up revelealed October releases to the manager.

That brings the list of minis recalled from retailer mandatory reorder to this:

- Tau Commander
- Tau Crisis Suits
- Tau Fire Warriors
- Tau Riptide

[Kirsten]

I need to start saving

[Chaosftw]

moved

[Mr Mystery]

Niiiiiiiiice!

And Defo new Firewarriors. And I think I see pistols?

And a new Drone variant.

[Bigred]

via Craig A (https://twitter.com/TheRedSorcerer) (twitter) 9-15-2015

New Tau Minis
15794157951579615797

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

Niiiiiiiiice!

And Defo new Firewarriors. And I think I see pistols?

And a new Drone variant.

What do you figure those new drones even are? They look like they could be a modified ML drone, but the existing models were just fine for that. I wonder if they're adding some new type of drone...

EDIT: poking through my sons Tau codex, and I'm almost positive those're not pulse carbines, but are instead Ion Rifles (s7, AP4, range 30", rapid fire). Must be an upgrade option for the Fire Warriors as a unit, I'm guessing. Or maybe you can have up to X per squad. (look on page 67 of the Tau codex at the weapon systems)

EDIT AGAIN: I think on P73 there's a pathfinder in the middleground who's carrying an ion rifle and it looks completely different from what's in these leaked pictures, so I guess I'm wrong. Slightly beefed-up pulse carbines. :(

[Gamgee]

What do you figure those new drones even are? They look like they could be a modified ML drone, but the existing models were just fine for that. I wonder if they're adding some new type of drone...

EDIT: poking through my sons Tau codex, and I'm almost positive those're not pulse carbines, but are instead Ion Rifles (s7, AP4, range 30", rapid fire). Must be an upgrade option for the Fire Warriors as a unit, I'm guessing. Or maybe you can have up to X per squad. (look on page 67 of the Tau codex at the weapon systems)

EDIT AGAIN: I think on P73 there's a pathfinder in the middleground who's carrying an ion rifle and it looks completely different from what's in these leaked pictures, so I guess I'm wrong. Slightly beefed-up pulse carbines. :(

The more I look the more I'm convinced those are some sort of shotguns and katanas on their backs. No one believes me.

[Kirsten]

having had a night to soak it all in, all I can say now is

ajrjdjjvkdkfjrjeudikrjoepdj

[CoffeeGrunt]

I was bemoaning the lack of decent leaks last night, then the floodgates opened today. Goodbye wallet!

New Fire Warrior sculpts look interesting. Not sure about the helmets, I think I prefer the classic design more. Hopefully these are the rumoured alternate build of Fire Warriors rather than a direct replacement. Those guns do look like fancier Pulse Carbines, there's none of the usual tells that would imply Ion weaponry to me, (the D-shaped barrel and Mortonium compartment on the Ion Rifle.) They could be something completely new, however.

Looking at the two pictures provided, there's definitely two separate weapons supplied. One comes with the familiar golden gyrostabiliser prevalent on Pulse weaponry, the other without. I think the one with is some sort of compact Pulse Rifle, perhaps a new design? Sergeant has a pistol, so GW have forgotten that Tau don't like CC it seems. Probably going to still be paying 10pts for Shas'ui to get +1 Attack for no reason.

Also no more fiddly, fragile antennae on Fire Warriors! I kinda liked the look, but boy were they a pain.

The Ghostkeel suit looks alright, that'll be one that'll likely get a lot of customisation as I've done with all my other suits. I can see it forming the basis for a lot of cool kitbashes, and I've wanted a Stealth Suit Commander-esque model for a long time. Here's hoping it leads some nicely-buffed Stealth Suits, those guys need some love IMO! Looks like it's mounting a Cyclic Ion Blaster and a more compact Fusion Blaster, so it probably draws from the Ranged Weapons List like most other suits.

Twin-Linked Fusion Blasters up top on the Ghostkeel implies it either has a Super Multi-Tracker of some kind, or is a Monstrous Creature. Also a possibility that it's a Walker, but that'd imply massive changes to how Tau Battlesuits work.

A couple of sneaky suits of Crisis Suits in the background, but I honestly can't tell whether it's the old Shas'O kit spruced up a bit, a new Shas'O kit, or a new Crisis Suit kit. Here's hoping for better pictures!

New Drone looks cool, I think it's mounting a Stealth Suit's Burst Cannon judging by the one on the right. Also seems to have bigger thrusters and some techy doodads, so it's likely another support Drone that'll give some sort of buff to Stealth Suit squads. Actually, looking again at other pictures, it seems they're an accompaniment to the new Ghostkeel suit.

...And the elephant in the room, the big Stormsurge. Looks like the shoulder cannon is a choice between a Railcannon and some sort of Ion weapon, I imagine this thing will be the Lord of War. Those big recoil supports mounted on the lower legs look cool and help solve the balance issues it'd likely have if it fired. Also has a slightly different groin plate for some reason. Body has no sign of possessing Jetpack Thrusters, so it's likely ground-bound. Still has a Riptide Shield Generator judging by the mount on its left shoulder, and can carry support systems.

Also, all that dakka. Looks like there's a Twin-Linked Smart Missile System, a pair of what looks like some sort of techy, update Missile Pods, and two massive blocks of small missiles, possibly some sort of super High Yield Missile Pod, or maybe an upscaled Smart Missile System with a ridiculous number of shots. That's not even including whatever that twin-linked weapon mounted under the left arm is. My first thought was that it was an Airbursting Frag Projector, but it's not. Also seems to have a speaker set mounted on the right side, Noise Marine Riptides confirmed.

Alternate weapon looks like some sort of massive Ion weapon, possibly either Skyfire or Barrage judging by the angle it's placed. It's also festooned with Support Systems, so it can probably draw from that list. This thing is definitely Superheavy, no way it could hope to fire more than half of those weapons otherwise. I'm guessing Gargantuan Creature is most predictable, but it might end up as a Walker.

Interested to see these in person, but I'm gunna be honest they're not what I was expecting at all. I definitely think they'll grow on me in time, though.

[Mr Mystery]

Definitely new Crisis Suits in the background.

Look at the shoulder armour. It's far larger and more pronounced that existing.

[Mr Mystery]

Mystic Mystery Predicts......

Ghostkeel is a super Stealh Suit.

Mystic Mystery makes no claim to his predictions being insightful, accurate, nor particularly not-obvious.

[Kirsten]

so khorne stuff for pre-order this weekend, Tau the weekend after?

[Mr Mystery]

About three weeks to the 'leaked' WD cover...its issue 89, and 86 is this week

[Kirsten]

this week we just had, or this week coming?

[Haighus]

Ok, just noticed something interesting- the Ghostkeel is the XV95 suit, and based on the Tau suit nomenclature, that makes it a variant of the XV9 Hazard suits FW makes. Having just checked out what they look like again, it does actually look fairly similar, like it is actually a heavily modified stealth form. Will be interesting to see if the sizes match up, or if GW just ignored FW fluff and any outward similarity is coincidence.

[AnEnemy]

It kind of hurts to see an army that wipes mine off the table like its nothing getting more of the same. Their basic rifle glances my vehicles on fives and usually ignore the cover saves my army's designed around.

And people are calling for buffs...

[CoffeeGrunt]

It kind of hurts to see an army that wipes mine off the table like its nothing getting more of the same. Their basic rifle glances my vehicles on fives and usually ignore the cover saves my army's designed around.

And people are calling for buffs...

Tau find it tougher if you use LoS-blocking terrain, as they only have a handful of weapons that circumvent LoS, and they're almost all anti-Infantry.

Additionally, while some are asking for buffs or nerfs, really I just want the stuff that's basically worthless made worthwhile, the stuff that's too good trimmed down a bit, and the new stuff to land somewhere in the middle.

[Mr Mystery]

this week we just had, or this week coming?

This week coming.

Though of course it's far from clear if the front page we've seen is the first Tau week. Could be the last one.

[Defenestratus]

This week coming.

Though of course it's far from clear if the front page we've seen is the first Tau week. Could be the last one.

One tau week is one too many...

[Mr Mystery]

One tau week is one too many...

http://www.tvchoicemagazine.co.uk/sites/default/files/imagecache/interview_image/vic_and_bob.jpg

[Kirsten]

Hmm, the Warhammer Visions is November's so could be a few weeks before pre-orders

[Bigred]

via anonymous (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/GwlWsjGgacY/additional-tau-release-information.html) (via Faeit) 9-17

Source 1
Fire warriors will be a dual kit.
No new sub-races for Tau (Kroot & Vepsid only), no model change for them.

Source 2
I believe Tau to be a three week release

Source 3
I saw the new Tau codex, unfortunately not the content but the front and back cover, front cover looks like the old codex with a crisis suit.

The new photo on the back cover is very interesting, everything is painted in white with:

1. New XV8 crisis suit, with new shoulder guard similar to current fire warriors and potentially new jetpack
2. New XV8 commander, with a new jet pack (may be the old one, but the jet pack and pose looks different)
3. New Ethereal (I think)
4. Some Tau specified terrains, sort of a watch tower and a sentry post kind of thing.
5. A new suit class, I think its larger than XV88 but smaller than Riptide, with the head of a stealth suit, unsure of the weapon load though
6. A new suit at the back of the photo, may be a dual kit with the above
7. A new massive suit, larger than Riptide! very bulky with a shoulder mounted rail cannon of sort (very big) and having very large missile pods instead of arms (kind of like a ******* child of Tomahawk from Macross and Zssa from Gundam ZZ, but no arms though)

[Kirsten]

Excellent

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm hoping the alternate option for the Fire Warrior kit has the old school helmets! I have to admit, it's a style that really grew on me, and my Shas'la just wouldn't be the same without it.

Shame the guy didn't get a picture, though. Also a shame that Vespid aren't getting new models. Here's hoping for new rules, at least.

[Kirsten]

the new heads have grown on me, but the option would be cool.

[CoffeeGrunt]

the new heads have grown on me, but the option would be cool.

They do look nice, but I'm hoping it'll be a Tempestus Scions deal with two head style options. That way I can save heads for some sweet Gue'vesa.

[Kirsten]

I would think so, most things these days have multiple head options

[RGilbert26]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma here - I can either travel up to Warhammer World and spend up to £400 on a Mechanicum army, or I can spend the whole of October spending up to £500 on Tau.

Urgh this is going to be a tough decision.

[YorkNecromancer]

I'm hoping the alternate option for the Fire Warrior kit has the old school helmets!

I'm completely the opposite; I think the new heads are SO much nicer than the old. The old ones are so goofily preposterously large! All the Tau in them have giant baby heads!

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/28/Guardians_of_Eternal_Youth.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141208221715

[Kirsten]

I don't think the old ones are large at all, what I don't like about the new ones is they look larger to me :p

[Mr Mystery]

I'm completely the opposite; I think the new heads are SO much nicer than the old. The old ones are so goofily preposterously large! All the Tau in them have giant baby heads!

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/28/Guardians_of_Eternal_Youth.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20141208221715

I like how they're more angled, and look to offer more armour.

It's like a slow burn 'evolution of Power Armour'

[YorkNecromancer]

i don't think the old ones are large at all, what i don't like about the new ones is they look larger to me :p

They have GIANT BABY HEADS!!! :)

[Kirsten]

looking at the WD cover with the Ghostkeel suit, that is October 10th. it mentions having rules for a mini game using the Stormsurge, so the stormsurge is probably first out, pre-order on the 3rd of October perhaps.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

Regardless, there's clearly NOT going to be a Stormsurge in a boxed set. There might be an XV95 with some stealth suits a la Assassination Force or whatever the boxed set was called. I would laugh to see an XV95 and three Stealths against an Imperial Guard platoon with Command Squad, and no Spehss Mahreens.

Although I would also be sad, since I play Spehss Mahreens, and my son plays Tau. But then my six-year-old wants to play Imperial Guard, so it would be a win anyway.

[Chaosftw]

Some Close up shots of the new Suit. They also come pre socketed for magnets and tells you what size to get in the manual.


15857158581585915860158611586215863158641586515866

[Kirsten]

fantastic

[CoffeeGrunt]

Do want. What sorta size are the cannons at the back? Do you reckon they're about the right size to represent Earthshaker Cannons?

[Kirsten]

they look too large to be earthshakers to me, but I may well be wrong

[CoffeeGrunt]

they look too large to be earthshakers to me, but I may well be wrong

Hopefully I'll find someone who'll do a comparison. If they look the part, then they'll make cheaper, cooler Earthshakers for my Gue'vesa Guard. Bigger gun would really be a detriment either. :P

[Kirsten]

would you not be better off modding a hammerhead railgun for a few quid?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Doesn't look the part, and the stats for the Supremacy Suit's gun are closer. I've used Ion Cannons from the Hammerhead in the past, which look alright, but this would look epic. Could scratch-build the mountings for cheap as well.

[Kirsten]

well the main body isn't all that different, if you changed the muzzle it would work. seems like a lot of money to spend on something not all that different :p

[CoffeeGrunt]

well the main body isn't all that different, if you changed the muzzle it would work. seems like a lot of money to spend on something not all that different :p

The mount's different, this one has more detail, it's a massive tech-howitzer, the list goes on. :P

[Kirsten]

yes but £60 :P

[Haighus]

Well, at £20 a gun plus materials for scratch building a mount, it isn't that bad tbh. I'm assuming CG is planning to break the weapon into three individual barrels to represent an Earthshaker cannon each. Is the plan to mount them on vehicles or use them with the FW artillery mount rules and create an artillery carriage for them?

[Kirsten]

yeah I know, still a lot though

[Bigred]

via GW 9-28-2015
Tau Teaser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PHi9pYkqs

Ion accelerator: charged
Vectored retro-thrusters: online
Counterfire defence system: engaged
Positional relay: locked-on
Nova reactor: powered up
Failsafe detonator: primed

Our conquest is inevitable!

Be here on Saturday 3rd October to find out more.

[Kirsten]

so excited.

so so excited.

[Mr Mystery]

so excited.

so so excited.

http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.Mfd860e478e3a17b6cf44e8e70cf7e835H0&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

[Kirsten]

nevaaarrr

[Gamgee]

The time is here. I feast on people's rage at the Tau. I play a very casual Tau list and am undefeated in 40k. I can only imagine the rage and anger my new codex will bring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh9c-dO8uS4

[Kirsten]

I will get a stormsurge and I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine, and he shall be my Squishy

[Defenestratus]

Going back to the title of this thread - are any of the reliable rumor whisperers still saying that a tau vs beakie boxed set is coming?

[JamesP]

Apologies if this has already been posted but Tetrisphreak on Dakka has posted the rules for the Stormsurge http://i.imgur.com/iJTZPmT.jpg

"A ballistic suit, not a battlesuit" - looking at the model, they could've called it a BFG-suit but that might've got people confused with Battlefleet Gothic :-)

[Bigred]

via Tetrisphreak (imgur) (http://i.imgur.com/iJTZPmT.jpg) on Dakkadakka on 9-28-2015


KX128 Stormsurge Ballistic Suit
Retailers report cost of £90
1588115882

[Defenestratus]

The general consensus on this thing is that while its not bad, its not particularly useful.

10" Str D is laughable on its face really. And unless tau get some shooting shenanigans then it will only be able to fire two of it's X guns a turn. It can't overwatch and it has no invulnerable save. If this thing was costed as a WK, it would probably be worth it but if thats the barometer for garg costing, its way overpriced.


Compared to a knight I think its probably on par - but I still think the bog standard knight is better overall.

[Kirsten]

so no super heavies for years, then two come along at once.

[BNOC]

The general consensus on this thing is that while its not bad, its not particularly useful.

10" Str D is laughable on its face really. And unless tau get some shooting shenanigans then it will only be able to fire two of it's X guns a turn. It can't overwatch and it has no invulnerable save. If this thing was costed as a WK, it would probably be worth it but if thats the barometer for garg costing, its way overpriced.


Compared to a knight I think its probably on par - but I still think the bog standard knight is better overall.


It can take sig systems so it can have an invul and will have a 5+FNP.

[Defenestratus]

It can take sig systems so it can have an invul and will have a 5+FNP.

How much is that invuln save going to cost though? My tau buddy says that its like 40pts now. That's not an insignificant amount of points. The FNP is there but its not applicable to the kinds of wounds that it will be taking. Only an inv save will be of value to it.

[Kirsten]

shield generators are never going to be 40pts in the codex. maybe as an exception for the stormsurge.

[BNOC]

How much is that invuln save going to cost though? My tau buddy says that its like 40pts now. That's not an insignificant amount of points. The FNP is there but its not applicable to the kinds of wounds that it will be taking. Only an inv save will be of value to it.

you also forgetting aboout how much fire this thing can throw out . Anchored down you have so many choices; it can fire 8D6 s5 ap5 missiles, 8 s5 ap5 ignores cover missiles, 2 s4 ignores cover large blasts, and/or 4 shots of the big gun. all at different targets.

[Lord Mayhem]

The general consensus on this thing is that while its not bad, its not particularly useful.

10" Str D is laughable on its face really. And unless tau get some shooting shenanigans then it will only be able to fire two of it's X guns a turn. It can't overwatch and it has no invulnerable save. If this thing was costed as a WK, it would probably be worth it but if thats the barometer for garg costing, its way overpriced.


Compared to a knight I think its probably on par - but I still think the bog standard knight is better overall.

I should point out the "two weapons only" is a debatable position for GCs. Even taking it as correct, currently Tau suits have multitrackers integral (not listed under wargear) which, if continued would allow 3 weapons a turn (or 6 if the stabilisers are emplaced)

While it does not have an integral Invuln, it can take a Shield generator as a support system, which neatly fixes that concern. I am curious why you say FNP will not be relevant to the sort of wounds the unit will take. In what way?

I do agree it appears subpar for the points, but I'm thinking to try it out and see. At the least it's likely to draw a lot of fire from the rest of my army (up to 4 S10 shots, and 8d6+8 S5 shots a turn...oww)

[Kirsten]

why are people saying it is debatable? it is there in the rulebook, gargantuan creatures can fire all of their weapons, and all at different targets. what are people debating?

[Lord Mayhem]

why are people saying it is debatable? it is there in the rulebook, gargantuan creatures can fire all of their weapons, and all at different targets. what are people debating?

Gargantuan creatures follow the rules for MC with changes as listed under GC. Since MC can only fire 2 weapons, there is a line of reasoning that the "can fire each weapon against a different target" does not override this (i.e. "each" up to a limit of 2). It could also be argued, even under that interpretation, that they could fire more than 2 only of each goes to a different target...
While I lean to GC being able to shoot all their weapons, I do not recall the GC rule specifically saying they can fire all their weapons, so can understand where the debate comes from

[Kirsten]

not really, the rules state that a gargantuan creature may fire each of its' weapons at a different target. nothing to say it can only fire two weapons, or that it shoots like a monstrous creature. it simply can fire each weapon at a different target. Gargantuan Creatures have always been able to fire all their weapons, that hasn't changed.

[Defenestratus]

not really, the rules state that a gargantuan creature may fire each of its' weapons at a different target. nothing to say it can only fire two weapons, or that it shoots like a monstrous creature. it simply can fire each weapon at a different target. Gargantuan Creatures have always been able to fire all their weapons, that hasn't changed.

Each != Every. Each != All

Gargantuan creatures used to not be able to be tied down in combat either. That's no longer the case. As stupid as it is, a grot can now ties up Ang'grath in close combat.

Believe me, I wish that GC's could fire "All" of their weapons every turn. My WK's would get a lot better.

[Kirsten]

they can

[Lord Mayhem]

not really, the rules state that a gargantuan creature may fire each of its' weapons at a different target. nothing to say it can only fire two weapons, or that it shoots like a monstrous creature. it simply can fire each weapon at a different target. Gargantuan Creatures have always been able to fire all their weapons, that hasn't changed.

Sadly that is not entirely correct. The entry for Gargantuan creatures states that GCs are treated as MCs except as listed. The debate is whether the wording of "may fire each weapon" negates the MC limit of 2 weapons.
Since both interpretations can be viewed as correct, and varies from group to group, until GW actually FAQs it can we simply accept "it depends on interpretation" and move on? Neither position can claim to be definitively correct.

[Charon]

Powergamers trying to lawyer rules in order to make their army stronger....

[Kirsten]

it is nothing to do with power gaming

[Defenestratus]

they can

Can you give me a good reason why they would word gargs rule differently than walkers then - which explicitly states that walkers can fire all of their weapons.

[Kirsten]

well I can see what others are saying after reading again, and where you are coming from. it just makes no sense for gargantuan creatures to be limited, when walkers and super heavies aren't. the heresy rules still explicitly allow gargantuan creatures to fire all weapons too, and there haven't even been any heresy gargantuan creatures yet.

[Charon]

it just makes no sense for gargantuan creatures to be limited, when walkers and super heavies aren't.

It also does not make sense for MCs to be limited when walkers are not but it is how it is.
Heresy is from a different design team and uses sometimes different rules.

[Learn2Eel]

The interpretation of Gargantuan Creatures firing more than two weapons comes down to how literally you read the "each" in its rules for shooting. Myself, the ITC, most tournaments and frankly most players rule it that they can shoot each - all - of their weapons as that is also how Games Workshop/Forge World apparently play it in their Battle Reports. It is also quite clearly the rules as intended, and it is also extremely obvious the Stormsurge was designed and balanced around that. So moving on with that belief...

This thing is pretty good. The Wraithknight is stupidly under-priced and every competitive gamer on the planet agrees with that assertion, so saying this thing is bad because it doesn't compare well to a Wraithknight is silly. The "Destroyer shotgun" is not laughable either; at 20" you can instead fire 4 Strength 10 AP1 small blasts (when stationary) which is more than enough for dealing with Imperial Knights (the most common Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature sized model in the game by far), especially considering you can position it smartly so that it gets two rounds of shooting at the Knight. You could even take a risk by moving to within exactly 20" of a Knight, shooting two Strength 10 AP1 blast shots at it as well as the four missiles while engaging the stabilizers, hoping it fails an 8" charge (or more if it is going through cover or the Stormsurge is in cover) and then blasting it with Destroyer single four shots on the next turn, all with the help of oh-so-lovely Markerlights. In that sense it can win a one-versus-one match-up pretty easily versus an Imperial Knight if you play it smart, especially as it will beat any Imperial Knight at range because even without an invulnerable save unlike a Knight it can have its toe in cover and get a save which pretty much forces an Imperial Knight to fight it in melee where its shotgun comes into play.

It's not even built for hunting Titan/Knight equivalents though which is where I think the fluff behind it is misleading. It obliterates light/medium vehicles (including flyers if you give it a Velocity Tracker), it rips right through infantry of all types and it can Intercept with a stupidly cheap upgrade to neuter or outright destroy multiple Deep Striking units at once. I also expect it to have access to most of the Support Systems in the new Tau codex as currently it can take three different systems in contrast to a Riptide's two or a Broadside's one, so we may very well still be able to give it a 4+ invulnerable save even in the new codex. It's undoubtedly a good unit, but it's not pants-on-head stupid in its pricing like a Wraithknight or Tau'nar. It will actually be a breath of fresh air having a FAIR Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature to use in games now for Tau, or just in general too.

It's also the first Gargantuan Creature ever to have a choice of more than one model per unit. I'm not entirely sure just how good it is but if the new codex retains most of the same options for them - critically the 4+ invulnerable save - it could be potentially very nasty, especially if there is a formation for them or a bonus to fielding them in a squad. That particular detail also makes it pretty obvious we are going to get Riptides in squads too. Much fun.

[Kirsten]

It also does not make sense for MCs to be limited when walkers are not but it is how it is.
Heresy is from a different design team and uses sometimes different rules.

the core rules aren't different, just the army specific ones

[Learn2Eel]

I also just wanted to point out that as it stands a Stormsurge can purchase a 4+ invulnerable save for +25 points, not the +40 that was thrown around earlier.

You can give it optional Skyfire via a Velocity Tracker and/or Interceptor via the Early Warning Override on top of the Shield Generator. You end up with a 430 point unit if you upgrade the guns, but given what it is capable of - remembering that most ground Super Heavies/Gargantuan Creatures are virtually useless against Flyers and get hard-countered by Deep Striking units - I would be more than happy to pay that price for one.

Also, that Pulse debacle is brought back again with both of the Stormsurge's shoulder weapons being Pulse weapons, and predictably a lot of various players have already jumped on this. I can only thank the Emperor that Storm of Fire will/should be changed.

[Gamgee]

This thing is mediocre. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's far from good. Forgettable. Now that Tau Supremacy Armor is what I'm getting now that I've seen the new rules for the Stormsurge.

[Learn2Eel]

This thing is mediocre. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's far from good. Forgettable. Now that Tau Supremacy Armor is what I'm getting now that I've seen the new rules for the Stormsurge.

Unlike the Tau'nar, I can actually understand it if people don't really rate the Stormsurge.
Honestly though if you look at anything in a vacuum compared to a Tau'nar or Wraithknight it will look like crap. Once people start making the comparisons to other units they will quickly realize how good this actually is. A model that can shoot twice with that many potential shots is not "forgettable". If the new codex doesn't change its access to a Shield Generator or the various other upgrades it can currently take, it will be a very common fixture in competitive Tau lists - and that's not even considering the potential Formations it might be a part of. It's a straight up hard-counter to MSU armies which Tau traditionally struggle with.

[Djbz]

I'm much more interested in the Ghostkeel, It looks cooler.
Anyone leaked anything about it's stats yet?

[Learn2Eel]

I'm much more interested in the Ghostkeel, It looks cooler.
Anyone leaked anything about it's stats yet?

Not yet mate unfortunately. Supposedly it's a giant Stealth Suit but who knows anymore, everyone expected the Stormsurge to be a titan-hunter but it's instead a general artillery platform.

[Gamgee]

Not yet mate unfortunately. Supposedly it's a giant Stealth Suit but who knows anymore, everyone expected the Stormsurge to be a titan-hunter but it's instead a general artillery platform.

A crappy artillery field gun. It's like expecting/needing to get your hands on a Flak 88 and then getting a WW 1 French Field Gun. Boy oh boy would the boys at the front line ever by shocked to be given such an... interesting... "artillery" piece. The company commander swears up and down its rapid fire anti-infantry capabilities are renowned and that's all you need despite being surrounded by machine guns, mortars, and rifles. Then around the corner comes a great big ISU-152 and boy oh boy are you ever in trouble with that dinky field gun of yours. Not to mention its crap ability to hit fortified potions everywhere.

On paper it looks good, but in the field is always a different story. This mediocre Stormsurge is easily one of the most disappointing things made my GW in a long time.

Enjoy your "Canon de 75 modèle 1897" against the Knights and grav cannons.

[Learn2Eel]

A crappy artillery field gun. It's like expecting/needing to get your hands on a Flak 88 and then getting a WW 1 French Field Gun. Boy oh boy would the boys at the front line ever by shocked to be given such an... interesting... "artillery" piece. The company commander swears up and down its rapid fire anti-infantry capabilities are renowned and that's all you need despite being surrounded by machine guns, mortars, and rifles. Then around the corner comes a great big ISU-152 and boy oh boy are you ever in trouble with that dinky field gun of yours. Not to mention its crap ability to hit fortified potions everywhere.

On paper it looks good, but in the field is always a different story. This mediocre Stormsurge is easily one of the most disappointing things made my GW in a long time.

Enjoy your "Canon de 75 modèle 1897" against the Knights and grav cannons.

That comparison is actually so laughable that I take my point about understanding that particular opinion on the Stormsurge right back.

A Stormsurge beats an Imperial Knight 1v1 with its Blastcannon if you aren't an idiot with your positioning, all the while its many, many Strength 5 shots can be pointed elsewhere to great effect. For something that's not actually designed for killing Knights or Titans that's pretty darned amazing.
Grav Cannons? It outranges them and - even unlike the Tau'nar - it can Intercept of its own accord and easily deal with any that Deep Strike near it before they can shoot at it. The only Grav Cannons that will give this legitimate pause are those that have Invisibility cast on their wielders. Also, it takes 40 Ballistic Skill 4 Graviton shots with Grav Amps to kill a Stormsurge equipped with a Shield Generator or that is standing in a Ruin...which is more than what your average Skyhammer list or Centstar puts out. It's also around 200-240 points cheaper than a Tau'nar that has similar defensive stats against Graviton weapons.

"Easily one of the most disappointing things made by GW in a long time" is possibly the most mind-boggling comment I've read about any recent release in a long time. If you seriously think this thing is that bad, you have absolutely no idea what makes something competitive. It has better base shooting than Gargantuan Creatures that are more than double its price and that is before you consider that it can shoot twice each turn. When equipped with a Shield Generator it is as durable or more durable compared to pretty much all Gargantuan Creatures against Destroyer and Graviton weapons, the two biggest counters to Gargantuan Creatures. It is also the second cheapest Gargantuan Creature in the game.

Heck, your last sentence is even more inane for the reasons mentioned above. If you are looking for justification to say the Stormsurge is not a good unit - and yes, I'm saying it is *good* not over-powered - then at least pick legitimate reasons for your argument.

[Charistoph]

I should point out the "two weapons only" is a debatable position for GCs. Even taking it as correct, currently Tau suits have multitrackers integral (not listed under wargear) which, if continued would allow 3 weapons a turn (or 6 if the stabilisers are emplaced)

Multitrackers are listed under Wargear. They are part of the Battlesuit. Have the Battlesuit, have the multitracker.

As a side note, the recent Forgeworld GW suit doesn't list one under any part of its wargear, even under the battlesuit's properties.

[Hendrik Booraem VI]

So there's no new rumors with regards to the possibility of a Tau vs. Space Marines box? I still think it'll be like the Assassin game and the Tau will have a Stealth team and the new Ghostkeel suit, vs a squad of tac marines, 5 termies, and a captain. Maybe instead of a cardboard playing board it'll include terrain features like the original Battle for Macragge or something.

[Defenestratus]

The "Destroyer shotgun" is not laughable either; at 20" you can instead fire 4 Strength 10 AP1 small blasts (when stationary) which is more than enough for dealing with Imperial Knights (the most common Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature sized model in the game by far)

If the idea is a 1v1 matchup, why would a knight get within 20" of the stormsurge in the first place when it out-ranges the 20" gun that you mention? Furthermore, if indeed the knight is within 20" of you, you have a bigger problem, because the knight its going to move 12" then charge you the next turn, sawing you in half, and there's not much you can do about it. Garg = no overwatch. At least for now.

4x Str10 AP1 hits on a Knight isnt' going to stop it, even if it's ion shield isn't facing you.

[Erik Setzer]

This thing is mediocre.

Mediocre? MEDIOCRE?!?

Sir, let me introduce you to the Orkanaut. Let's just look at the Morkanaut.

Vehicle, not super-heavy, with 13 armor on the front, 5 HP. Yeah, it can buy a 5+ save. So now you have a 5+ inv. save, but one shot will still take it out. For weaponry, it has a couple of short-range rockets; a couple of twin-linked big shootas (3 shots, 36", S5 AP5), basically a plasma gun (only not Rapid Fire), and a slighty more potent plasma cannon... all of which fire with BS2, so need 5+ to hit, with the stronger better AP guns having a chance to overheat.

Oo, and it can transport SIX models!

...in a horde army.

All for about the same price as this bugger.

Bonus: Each Orkanaut is a single model per slot, taking up a precious Heavy Support slot in an army where almost all of the stuff that can actually hurt anything (especially at range higher than "melee") is in Heavy Support.

- - - Updated - - -


If the idea is a 1v1 matchup, why would a knight get within 20" of the stormsurge in the first place when it out-ranges the 20" gun that you mention? Furthermore, if indeed the knight is within 20" of you, you have a bigger problem, because the knight its going to move 12" then charge you the next turn, sawing you in half, and there's not much you can do about it. Garg = no overwatch. At least for now.

4x Str10 AP1 hits on a Knight isnt' going to stop it, even if it's ion shield isn't facing you.

Actually, you answered why it has to get that close: Standard Knights don't really have the weaponry to stand back and try to out-shoot this guy. Their best weapon is their CCW, at Str. D, so they have to get in close to use it.

Four S10 AP1 hits isn't something to shrug off. That's a +2 on the damage roll, so 5+ for explosion result, D3+1 HP, on average that's 3 HP. Couple of those hits will take it down. You've got four chances, but you can toss another guy's fire on there to make it even more likely to get him down.

Meanwhile, at best it's a Knight with multi-shot guns and can do more than one wound in return.

[Mr Mystery]

Gorkanaut looks really cool though.

Well, I think so anyways.

[Path Walker]

Gorkanaut looks really cool though.

Well, I think so anyways.

Both of mine look ace, and you get a nice progression from Kans to Stompa

[Gamgee]

It's mediocre for the Tau and you know it. We don't need more 5/5 shooting. And 95% of thew time this thing is going to be moving to survive or at least not be tied up in melee. It's second firing is a gimmick. Also it doesn't benefit from markerlights twice since the second attack lets it shoot at another target. But at a crappy BS of 3 or you need twice the amount of ML support which takes away from other supporting units.

If one thing goes wrong your dead. This thing is a niche platform that has to be supported by a huge chunk of your army and if it can't deploy half of its worth is gone and your still stuck supporting it as it runs away. It can't fire its two shots on turn one anyways since it need to wait until the next shooting phase and has to stay immobile.

It's sitting on that weird line between too weak to justify a fortified position like the Ta'unar and it's not good enough as a mobile weapon to justify its inclusion over two Riptides with Ion's and can move and fire their maximum firepower from turn one and will always be able to.

If you can get this thing firing twice it could pay off, but that is one big if.

[Erik Setzer]

Gorkanaut looks really cool though.

Well, I think so anyways.

It looks AWESOME. But I don't like models that just sit on the shelf... I like them to have use in-game. My poor Morkanaut sits on a shelf. I want to get a Gorkanaut eventually and convert it to have a bar inside (there's got to be *some* reason it has that Transport capacity, right?), but it's kind of expensive to invest that in something I won't be using if I could spend the money on other gaming stuff I'll actually use. :(

[Mr Mystery]

Think bigger.....

Zit Vishus and Da Bolt Pistuls....goffik rok band on tour.

Drum kit for a head.....

[Erik Setzer]

Well, that would have to go on the outside. But since Mad Max has upped that ante, it's a possibility.

A Stompa as a walking concert would be pretty hilarious, too, and totally explain the bubble of Fearless.

[Mr Mystery]

Give it its own special roolz.

Widdly-wah Solo - +1 shot for Shootas and Sluggas within 12" as they show their appreciation.

That sort of stuff.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

15899

This seems related to this thread. From this page... http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/09/tau-and-space-marines-this-weeks-full.html

[Erik Setzer]

Ah. $150 each. Yeah, so... Glad I'm not a Tau player. (Sort of.)

[son_of_volmer]

[speculation]

what if the alternate build for the fire warriors is just a markerlight on each fire warrior? It would make an interesting Troops unit.

[ak318]

hey so this images was just posted on the tau facebook group. 15915

[Learn2Eel]

I posted these in the comments section of an article regarding the leaked Ghostkeel rules if anyone is interested. LONG POST AHOY! So far I rate both the Stormsurge and Ghostkeel as good units though obviously we don't know the full story about the latter yet even if early impressions point to it being quite a useful model. Of the two though the Ghostkeel seems like it will be the easier one to recommend to people.

The only real potential problem I see with the Ghostkeel right now is that it is an Elites choice which flies in the face of logic based on our current Force Organization chart. As long as the "Decurion" style detachment is good this obviously won't be a problem, and I also am curious to see how much the Force Organization chart gets rejiggered for Tau seeing as the Elites slot is the most competitive (but not numerous) one we have right now. Honestly though the main problem I have with Tau at the moment is the death of Troops choice selections - we only have two in the codex currently! - which should hopefully change if the new Fire Warrior box is anything to go by.




Let me address some of the early criticisms to this model.

"It does what a team of Fusion suits does but weaker".
Fusion Suits have to a) get close and b) try to survive. A team of three Fusion Suits is more expensive, far easier to kill and reliant on Deep Strike to get to a target. The Ghostkeel has a walking 2+ cover save if I read its rules correctly when it is outside of 12" and a 2+ in any sort of cover as well when within 12" of enemies, and it is Toughness 5 with 4 Wounds. That is way, way tougher than three Crisis Suits could ever be, it has similar 18" range (9" for the Melta rule) and can Jet Pack 2D6" in the Assault Phase. It is already more worthwhile than a current Fusion Team just for being much more difficult to kill and cheaper. I also wouldn't be surprised if it can Infiltrate seeing as it is a giant Stealth Suit which would make this comparison even more in favour of the Ghostkeel.

"There's too much high Strength Ignores Cover for it to survive."
Ask yourself a serious question; how many of these weapons exist outside of the TAU codex? The answer is not many at all. You can count very lucky Destroyer hits that roll a Deathblow if you want but saying that's a specific reason for the Ghostkeel being easy to kill when a Deathblow straight up murders almost anything in the game is a tad silly. Most armies do not have a weapon that is both AP3 and Ignores Cover, as otherwise Ravenwing wouldn't be the power-house army they are right now.

"It's Toughness 5 and thus vulnerable to Instant Death."
As mentioned above, outside of combat there are only a handful of S10 Ignores Cover ranged weapons in the game, some of which have already been raised in the comments section but are all generally rare.

"The Blast weapon is weaker than a single shot."
This is patently false in almost every scenario short of being forced to Snap Fire. A single BS3 shot versus a single BS3 Blast ends up with the Blast being more accurate overall with the potential for more hits on a target unit. Yes, you can't shoot at flyers but since when have Tau ever had trouble dealing with flyers in the current codex?

"It doesn't bring anything new to the Tau army."
It does if you look at the mixture of its two-three Fusion weapons (if we go by the picture it is three) and the fact that it is a Monstrous Creature Stealth Suit with all that entails, meaning it will almost always have a 2+ cover save. You can use it in a similar role to a Deep Striking Fusioncide team but unlike those this will actually survive a turn after firing, and it also becomes pretty darned nasty indeed if it actually can Infiltrate as current Stealth Teams do. Basically, what it brings to the Tau army is a source of cheap firepower that can actually take a lot of punishment - the only other units in the codex like this are the Riptide and Skyray, but neither of those can really operate at close ranges like this thing can.

"It's not a good unit at all."
All those Land Raiders and other AV14 you have trouble dealing with as Tau outside of Fusion Crisis Teams can be - if we look at the rules as we know them - far better dealt with by one of these. This thing will survive much longer than any Crisis Team will even despite working in close ranges to enemy units and is a natural bullet sponge with almost permanent 2+ cover saves, 3+ armour, Toughness 5 and at least 4 Wounds - remembering that we still don't know what the Drones do either. Being a Monstrous Creature also means it can probably defend itself better in close combat than a Crisis Team, but being a Jetpack unit means it can pretty freely move around and stay away from potential chargers. I think it is a decent unit at the moment but we will have to wait and see if it has Infiltrate as I think that will be the big deal-breaker for this model.

"The Y'Vahra is better."
The Y'Vahra ranges from heavily under-priced to downright game-breaking depending on how literally you read its rules and if you don't mind being called a cheese-beard for exploiting said poorly written rules. I don't expect many things to stack up well when compared to a Y'Vahra in much the same way comparing a Tau'nar to a Stormsurge is really unfair - the former is criminally under-priced, the latter is on-point with its pricing.

By the by, my opinions are formulated from having used Fusion Crisis Teams in almost every match with my Tau - they are super reliant on killing their target on the drop because they will get shredded by anything afterwards, whereas this thing should actually survive for a good part of the game if you play it right.

I also want to point out that the alternative Ion weapon that replaces the Fusion Blast weapon is actually pretty darned good. Six S7 AP4 shots are almost always better against most vehicles than one S8 AP1 Melta shot, and I'm betting the range of the Ion gun is better than the Melta gun too. It basically becomes - once again - a cheaper but way more durable version of a Missile Crisis Team with some added melta shots via its secondary and tertiary weapon systems. The Ion gun can also apparently be Overcharged to be a S8 AP4 Large Blast which with Tau shenanigans can actually be pretty devastating against most Xenos armies.

[Gamgee]

Unlike the crappy Stormsurge this thing is insane.

It might have 4 weapons.

1. Fusion Blast gun
2. Two fusion blasters or one twin linked (shoulder ones).
3. It's left arm is clearly the upgraded fusion blaster (non twinlinked) that was upgraded from the base twin linked flamer. It looks like it because of the shell around it.

So it could possibly have as many as 4 fusion blasters. It all depends on the stats when we see the rules in a WD. Even with 3 this thing is still pretty good. Four would make these an awesome addition, but three would make them merely a good one. I'm hoping for the former.

I'm actually excited for this thing. Two of these things working in a team could equal or put out more shots than a fusion suit team while being infinitely more durable and capable. For sure I'm purchasing two of these asap. Maybe even three. They were my favourite new Tau unit and the rules back them up.

+1 GW.

Now fix that SS and we'll talk as it is I'm grabbing the Ta'unar.

Working in tandem with my Y'vahrah these suits will be amazing. Also the Y'vahrah is pretty balanced. It's extremely hard to use correctly and one tiny bit of bad luck and it can go down like a sack of potatoes. High risk. Maybe too high risk for your average player, but when it works? Absolutely devastating. I'm crazy like that though (Started DE after my Tau :P )

At the same time I can still see myself using XV8 fusion teams in certain builds. If I just need cheap anti-tank to fill out a different kind of build they got my back.

[Learn2Eel]

Unlike the crappy Stormsurge this thing is insane.

It might have 4 weapons.

1. Fusion Blast gun
2. Two fusion blasters or one twin linked (shoulder ones).
3. It's left arm is clearly the upgraded fusion blaster (non twinlinked) that was upgraded from the base twin linked flamer. It looks like it because of the shell around it.

So it could possibly have as many as 4 fusion blasters. It all depends on the stats when we see the rules in a WD. Even with 3 this thing is still pretty good. Four would make these an awesome addition, but three would make them merely a good one. I'm hoping for the former.

I'm actually excited for this thing. Two of these things working in a team could equal or put out more shots than a fusion suit team while being infinitely more durable and capable. For sure I'm purchasing two of these asap. Maybe even three. They were my favourite new Tau unit and the rules back them up.

+1 GW.

Now fix that SS and we'll talk as it is I'm grabbing the Ta'unar.

Working in tandem with my Y'vahrah these suits will be amazing. Also the Y'vahrah is pretty balanced. It's extremely hard to use correctly and one tiny bit of bad luck and it can go down like a sack of potatoes. High risk. Maybe too high risk for your average player, but when it works? Absolutely devastating. I'm crazy like that though (Started DE after my Tau :P )

I'm inclined to believe the shoulder weapons are the twin-linked fusion blaster. The left arm appears to be the primary weapon - either the Ion gun or the Fusion gun - and the shoulder weapons have two aligned fusion blasters which points to them being twin-linked. The post didn't mention what the right arm gun was; from what I can see it doesn't look like a standard fusion weapon. It may very well be that cover-providing wargear the post mentioned.

EDIT: What the? I double-checked the Y'Vahra rules PDF and noticed I got its weapon ranges wrong, added a sentence to this long paragraph and realized after I submitted the post that I accidentally deleted the paragraph instead. Doh! It makes the next batch of posts humorously context-lacking.

[Gamgee]

Their right arm is the ion weapon since it says that new ion gun can be upgraded to the 6 assault gun. So we're seeing that on the pictures I think. Then it mentions that there is a twin link flamer. I've never seen a twin linked flamer placed so oddly on a model. Usually I see them assembled side by side and linked up. At least that's my hypothesis. So it all remains to be seen who is right. Like I said I hope I am, but I'm not so confident I would make a bet since the other way could easily be right as well.

You have to declare your using its Nova reactor to do all that fancy stuff which drains its health rapidly. That one less wound is a huge factor in its ability to nova charge. Compared to the crazy stuff zooming all over the table these days it's incredibly well balanced. Against a pure IG player though? Nightmare is the only word. I'm hoping all the under powered dexes get good stuff now.

[Learn2Eel]

"The main gun - Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast."

The wording is hazy but it seems pretty clear that you swap the Fusion Collider out for the Ion weapon. The stats listed line up with the Ion Rifles used by Pathfinders so I'm assuming the "with a....gun" is referring to the weapon that you swap the Fusion Collider for.

Regarding the Y'Vahra's Nova Reactor, the problem therein lies that you have a 66.6% chance of success with each roll. You are likely to fail only one per three turns, meaning you are probably going to at least have two turns of immortal destruction raining down on your opponents. I managed to crush a War Convocation by exploiting this with just one Y'Vahra. Regardless, this thing has a fairly decent chance of one-shotting a Land Raider from 12" away then using its Jetpack to move out of range while pulling similar stunts on any kind of non-vehicle, non-monstrous unit with two S6 AP2 Torrent (6") templates. I actually misremembered that the Ion gun has only has a 12" range which does make a big difference but it is still generally in a similar position as the Riptide for being too good for its points cost, plus it has numerous effectively game-breaking rules. It's definitely not a balanced unit for its points; in almost all cases when using one it will make its points back on the first turn by killing something that your opponent has no say in, and if it managed to Nova Reactor successfully your opponent can't even hit it in response. It most definitely needs to get fixed by Forge World and I feel terrible every time I use it per the rules as written, so much so that I've stopped using it that way in my regular games. Even then, it's still too strong for what you pay for.

Mind you, I'm not saying it is on the level of stupidity as a Wraithknight as far as how powerful it actually is for the points. As far as rules design though it is shocking in terms of how many FAQs it needs so that people actually understand how it works. It's a difficult unit to balance though because of its role in a Tau army.

[Gamgee]

I know the first point. I'm saying the pictures we've seen of the 95 we haven't seen the fusion collider. We've seen the anti infantry main gun that can replace the collider.

Well jokes on you there was talk of them increasing its shield value in melee. I've never seen too many people have a problem with it. Rules clarifications sure. Out right nerfs? Nope. I don't feel it needs a buff or a nerf. It needs to be worded better but other than that it's at a good spot. I'll stop repeating myself now since I don't have any more points to raise and this is just going back and forth.

[Learn2Eel]

Ok now I see what you mean, honestly though I'm happy either way with it regardless of how many Melta shots it puts out. Looking at the gun on its right arm though it has some similarities to a Fusion Blaster, namely the "pole' extending from the rear of the weapon so that could very well be the Fusion Collider. The gun on its left arm looks to be roughly the same size as a Fusion Blaster and looks similar so my guess is; Fusion gun/Ion gun, twin-linked Fusion Blaster, fusion blaster.

I wouldn't be miffed by that given that a lot of the time it is impossible to catch in a melee anyway as long as its Nova Reactor is online so functionally it wouldn't make much of a difference in a lot of cases. Besides, Forge World are pretty well known for making bone-headed decisions (much like GW!) regarding changing the rules of their Super Heavies - take a gander at the Eldar Super Heavy Vehicles for reference. I know a lot of people that beg to differ regarding it as it tends to outright remove two units from the board that total a lot more points than it is worth before dying assuming the Tau player both gets unlucky with their Nova reactor roll and doesn't have LoS blocking terrain to JSJ behind, meaning even in worst case scenarios it will often make its points back and soak up a good amount of firepower. I mean, there's a good reason you see two Y'Vahras in a lot of tournament Tau lists - in most tournaments though it is banned because of its Experimental tag. Agree to disagree, much like the Stormsurge I guess.

[Mr Mystery]

And don't forget to include.....vehicles come in squadrons these days. Small blast templates can potentially turn into two hits against said squadron, and thus potentially two kills from a single shot.

3 Krak Missiles ruin a Crisis Squads day - they may see this beasty wounded, but will be going some to definitely drop it. And until it's dropped? All it's dakka remains in play. That's a nice offset to the 'yeah, but S10 will remove it entirely' argument.

[Kirsten]

you know what I would love to see is the 10" D weapon mounted on a hammerhead, that would look awesome.

[Mr Mystery]

The Forgeworld one?

[Learn2Eel]

And don't forget to include.....vehicles come in squadrons these days. Small blast templates can potentially turn into two hits against said squadron, and thus potentially two kills from a single shot.

3 Krak Missiles ruin a Crisis Squads day - they may see this beasty wounded, but will be going some to definitely drop it. And until it's dropped? All it's dakka remains in play. That's a nice offset to the 'yeah, but S10 will remove it entirely' argument.

That's pretty much spot on, people often forget how fragile Tau Battlesuits really are outside of those that are monstrous creatures. A Crisis Suit is essentially a two-wound Space Marine, meaning a team of three is effectively as durable as six regular Space Marines. If we want to do a straight comparison between the Ghostkeel and a Crisis Team, both hiding in terrain that provides 5+ cover (meaning the Ghostkeel gets full effect out of its Stealth and Shrouded while the Crisis Suits have a save against AP3-2 weapons) we can work out the following assuming averages/rounding up any fractions/median results/etc;

*It takes 36 Bolter hits to kill 3 Crisis Suits (Toughness 4, Wounds 6, Save 3+). It takes 72 Bolter hits to kill 1 Ghostkeel (Toughness 5, Wounds 4, Save 2+). That is double the durability.
*It takes 6 Krak Missile hits to kill 3 Crisis Suits (Save 5+). It takes roughly 30 Krak Missile hits to kill 1 Ghostkeel (Save 2+). That is over five times the durability.
*It takes 10 Plasma Gun hits to kill 3 Crisis Suits (Save 5+). It takes roughly 30 Plasma Gun hits to kill 1 Ghostkeel (Save 2+). That is triple the durability.
*It takes 54 Lasgun hits to kill 3 Crisis Suits (Save 3+). It takes 144 Lasgun hits to kill 1 Ghostkeel (Save 2+). That is just under triple the durability.
*It takes 3 Markerlight-guided Seeker Missiles to kill 3 Crisis Suits (no save). It takes 4 Markerlight-guided Seeker Missiles to kill 1 Ghostkeel. This is the one weapon that absolutely is the bane of the Ghostkeel but it still pulls ahead of the Crisis Suits here and only loses its full effectiveness when it suffers all 4 Wounds, unlike the Crisis Suits that lose a third of their firepower per wound suffered (Instant Death).

I'd do more comparisons but I think we've effectively illustrated the point. Crisis Teams will have comparable or better firepower but way less durability at a higher cost if we go by the current codex. Basically unless you get hit by a Strength 10 Ignores Cover weapon - of which there aren't many in the game - the Ghostkeel is far more survivable than most other Battlesuits. In fact it pulls ahead of the Riptide if the latter doesn't have the Nova-charged 3+ invulnerable save when hit by AP2 weapons that don't Ignore Cover which is definitely a majority of the anti-tank/anti-monster weapons in the game!


you know what I would love to see is the 10" D weapon mounted on a hammerhead, that would look awesome.

A Hammerhead with a giant shotgun sounds too cool not to make! Thanks for the inspiration :D

[Kirsten]

The Forgeworld one?

the stormsurge gun, on a hammerhead. I am going to make one :p

[Mr Mystery]

Or sheer bad luck....2+ save is great, but we all know that dastardly 1 is just waiting patiently to strike at the worst possible time :p

[Mr Mystery]

the stormsurge gun, on a hammerhead. I am going to make one :p

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L7-5D2uVxTo/SvJgUpFr5FI/AAAAAAAAAF4/HKuTta8g4cU/s400/Silly.jpg

[Kirsten]

white dwarf isn't up yet, still only pre-order for this issue, no digital version yet. one of the few issues I would actually buy, and it isn't up yet

[Mr Mystery]

Was looking at my Tau Empire Codex last night.

I'd be lying if I said I was tempted...

[Kirsten]

was, or wasn't?

[Mr Mystery]

wasn't.

I blame overtime, and hitting 150% of target.

It's borked my brian.

[Learn2Eel]

Via Faeit 212 - this is additional information from the same source that leaked some of the rules yesterday. All credit goes to Naftka and his source.


A couple insights to the new Ghostkeel model and some special rules
1. The torso can be open or closed to show a pilot inside. Both a male and female Tau are included. A good thing to possibly magnetize.
2. The Sensor Arrays are on the battlesuit look the same as the Shadowsun's.
3. The Stealth Drones carry stealth emitters underneath replacing the standard weapons.

Regarding special rules- no infiltration
-Fire Team
-Stealth
-Supporting Fire

Countermeasures. Once per game, you can disrupt the targeting of an enemy unit, if it is targeting the Ghostkeel's unit, before dice are rolled. That unit can only make snap shots during that shooting phase.

So going off what we already know, it appears that; the Ghostkeel innately has Stealth but gains Shrouded from the Stealth Drones; Supporting Fire REMAINS; Fire Team (perhaps a new army special rule?); no Infiltrate does hurt its competitive uses but being a super durable Jet Pack Monstrous Creature it would probably be too good for its points with Infiltrate; the Countermeasures rule is INSANE. If you don't understand why the Countermeasures rule is crazy, let me explain; you can soak up the regular fire that comes your way and won't get past your 2+ cover save, but the moment something is fired at it that will legitimately threaten the Ghostkeel - i.e. a Skyray unloads all 6 of its Seeker Missiles with Markerlight support to try and one-shot it, or it gets targeted by that Baneblade variant with the Ignores Cover S10 AP2 7" Blast weapon - you can then go "nuh-uh!" and force them to Snap Fire. Sure it only works once but in the case of this thing once may be enough given how potent it is at close ranges!

This thing is most definitely a super-cheap, super-durable fire magnet and I really love the way its rules are coming together now. I also just realized that must mean the Stealth Drones provide extra Wounds for the Ghostkeel but will force it to take Leadership tests if one dies (unless new Drone rules or that Fire Team rule change this). I wonder if the Drones are paid-for or come with the Ghostkeel for free? Also just an FYI regarding the Skyray and Seeker Missiles - the above trick won't work with the Countermeasures rule if the Seeker Missiles are fired using Markerlight tokens. If they are fired normally but buffed by Markerlights the trick will work though.

[Mr Mystery]

Seems best dealt with in hth, which is nowt new for Tau.

[Gamgee]

My goodness this is only getting better and better. So happy. :)

[Irongut]

Pathfinders are gone- "no longer available".....

- - - Updated - - -

Humm...

[Merellin]

The Pathfinders (And Broadsides as some say they are gone too) Are probably just being reboxed to have the white colorscheme on the box.

[Mr Mystery]

Pathfinders could be getting repackaged - bases, transfers, artwork etc.

Recently, stuff being repackaged is listed as 'sold out' rather than 'not currently available'. Bit of a pain, but no biggy.

[Bigred]

via multiple retailers 10-5-2015

Tau XV95 Ghostkeel $75

Kit makes 1 XV95 and 2 Stealth Drones

Larger than a Broadside suit

Drones protect the XV95 from incoming fire



Tau Reboxes:

Devilfish

Pathfinders

Stealthsuits

Broadsides

Pirahna

[Learn2Eel]

Something I noticed on another forum about the Stormsurge, apparently its kit description says it can be equipped with three different support systems. As has been noted elsewhere these include an Early Warning Override, a Target Lock and a Shield Generator - I'm not sure on the first two but the last one is definitely modeled on the Stormsurge in all photos. We can assume it can at the very least get a Shield Generator in the new codex, but obviously the cost and what invulnerable save it provides the Stormsurge are up in the air. The Target Lock is probably the most interesting option as it doesn't make sense to equip a Gargantuan Creature with one unless it gets changed, but seeing as it has been the same throughout three different codices I find this to be unlikely. I guess it is a possibility that it gets reworked into a replacement for the old Targeting Array, but that would be odd.

[Mr Mystery]

Could be akin to the Supremacy Armours 'Vigilance Defence System' which allows its tertiary weapons to Overwatch at BS2, contrary to standard Gargantuan Creature rules?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Could be akin to the Supremacy Armours 'Vigilance Defence System' which allows its tertiary weapons to Overwatch at BS2, contrary to standard Gargantuan Creature rules?

That's more like the Counterfire Defense System, as there's no stipulation that MCs can't fire Overwatch, and the CDS allows you to fire Overwatch at BS2.