View Full Version : Codex: Angels of Secrecy Preview: Raxian Stormtroopers
Master Bryss
02-22-2010, 12:43 PM
I'm relatively confident about my second Codex, with the exception of one unit: Raxian Stormtroopers. Therefore, good people, I need your help to assure that they are indeed a decent unit. Here we go:
Raxian Stormtroopers
Orphans in the Raxia system are sent to the Angels of Secrecy instead of a Schola Progenium in the hope they can be nurtured into worthy neophytes. The Angels have other ideas. As these orphans grow up they are expected to train at the same level as Space Marines, encouraged by Sergeants and Chaplains. Although they can never equal a Marine, they push themselves to their very limits to please their masters, making them paragons among humans. When they reach 18, they are given their Hellguns and ordered to become Storm Troopers, the boldest of the bold among Raxians.
They are agile, they are skilled shooters, they fight effortlessly alongside Marines and they are completely fearless, yet tactical enough to know when to give up. Truly are these men worthy of standing at the most hellish of battlefields, and surviving.
Cost: 85 points
Storrmtrooper
<table border="1"><tr><td>WS</td><td>BS</td><td>S</td><td>T</td><td>W</td><td>I</td><td>A</td><td>LD</td><td>SV</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>3</td><td>3</td><td>1</td><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>8</td><td>4+</td></tr></table>
Storrmtrooper Sergeant
<table border="1"><tr><td>WS</td><td>BS</td><td>S</td><td>T</td><td>W</td><td>I</td><td>A</td><td>LD</td><td>SV</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>3</td><td>3</td><td>1</td><td>5</td><td>2</td><td>9</td><td>4+</td></tr></table>
Unit: Sergeant and 4 Stormtroopers
Unit type: Infantry
Wargear:
• Raxian Hellgun with Hot-Shot Rounds
• Laspistol
• Close Combat Weapon
• Carapace armour
• Frag and krak grenades
Hot-Shot Rounds: A Raxian Hellgun may fire with either the Hellgun or Hot Shot Rounds profile. Each squad member may choose a different profile.
Special Rules:
• Auxiliaries
• Deep Strike
• Desire to Excel
• Combat Squads
• Battle Tactics
Auxiliaries: For the sake of appearance Raxian PDF cannot be seen as a major part of Chapter forces. You may only include one squad of Raxian Stormtroopers in your army for every two units of Tactical Marines or Scouts taken.
Desire to Excel: Even with basic training over, Stormtroopers expect themselves to perform as well as Astartes, and refuse to give up. They may always rally even if below half strength.
Battle Tactics: Raxian Stormtroopers are the masters of several ranged firefight tactics. They may choose to use one of the following Manoeuvres during the Shooting Phase:
Feint: The squad may shoot and then Fall Back 6” (note they will always rally due to Desire to Excel.)
Suppress: The squads shooting attacks cause Pinning
Prone Shot: The squad shoots, then immediately goes to ground. They will get up again in your next Movement Phase. The squad will not count as intervening models this player turn for Line of Sight, but may not assault.
Aim Down Sight: If the squad has not moved they may gain +1 BS, and may not assault.
• Transport: May take a Rhino or Razorback (see Transport for points costs)
Options:
Up to 5 Stormtroopers can be added to the squad...+16 points per model.
The Sergeant may replace his laspistol and/or Hellgun with:
D’Angelus Bolter...free
Storm bolter...+5 points
Combi-weapon or power weapon...+10 points
Plasma pistol...+10 points
Power Fist...+15 points
The Sergeant may have melta bombs...+5 points
For every 5 models in the squad one Stormtrooper may replace his hellgun with:
Flamer, grenade launcher or sniper rifle...+5 points
Meltagun...+10 points
Plasma gun...+15 points
May replace Deep Strike with Infiltrate or Scout for free.
New Wargear you won't know about:
Raxian Hellgun: Range 18", S3, AP4, Assault 2
Hot-Shot Rounds: Range 12", S3, AP3, Assault 1
D'Angelus Bolter: Range 18", S4, AP5, Assault 2 (this is the basic firearm of most Secret Marines.
C+C welcome (needed!!)
Sir Biscuit
02-22-2010, 08:04 PM
A few things:
1.) Why are they I5? I understand that they train with the genetically superior astarties, but even they only go up to I4, and a Slanesshi human would also be I4. I5 is downright impossibly fast for normal humans. They should be I3, with their move speed and shooting.
2.) Also, why are they 2 attacks base each? Again, they are surpassing the marines they are supposed to be emulating.
3.) Fleet is excessive, especially with both scout AND infiltrate. Drop it.
4.) You should be focusing on making units simple. With three options for Skirmish Tactics, and two weapons, I think you are trying to do too much. Hellfire rounds may be a fun idea, but they don't really fit the fluff. (Lasguns don't use "rounds", and hotshot is a modification to the gun as a whole, not the clip.) Drop the hotshot option and just give them the hellguns.
5.) Also, is there any reason why hellguns are AP4? I would think AP5 would be the lowest they would go.
6.) Why do they have Deep Strike?
Mostly, right now, they are stronger than space marine scouts, and significantly better than marines in melee. I like the idea of forward human sentries that help marines on their stealth missions, but they're too good as it stands. I would price these guys at around 25 points each as they stand, which would make the unit hardly worth it.
Nabterayl
02-23-2010, 05:46 AM
Hellfire rounds may be a fun idea, but they don't really fit the fluff. (Lasguns don't use "rounds", and hotshot is a modification to the gun as a whole, not the clip.)
That's not actually true. There is such a thing as a hot-shot power pack for a lasgun, and it's generally bad for the weapon, so I think a 6" reduction in range and a single shot (most hot-shot power packs drain the entire pack in a single shot) is an accurate depiction.
As for whether the unit is "decent," I agree with everything Sir Biscuit said. In particular I'd like to emphasize my agreement with him that you're depicting these guys as way more skilled than space marines. No, they don't have symbiotes, and no, they don't have bolters or power armor, but other than that, these guys put the Emperor's Finest to shame.
Madness
02-23-2010, 07:32 AM
The hellgun is ALREADY fitted with a hot-shot pack. The hellgun is nothing more than a better lasgun that is crafted with the hot-shot in mind.
Initiative 5 is insane, and so is fleet, if you want eldar play eldar.
Ld8/9 is pretty high, ATSKNF is iconic of the space marines so it's kind of a stretch acceptable just because scouts also have it but I'd either lower the Ld or lost ATSKNF.
A2 is both conflicting with their role and the human limits, give them 2 hth weapons instead.
Also everything the other guys said.
Nabterayl
02-23-2010, 07:47 AM
The hellgun is ALREADY fitted with a hot-shot pack. The hellgun is nothing more than a better lasgun that is crafted with the hot-shot in mind.
I don't disagree with that, but I still don't think the hellgun as presented here is in any way anomalous. Yes, you can apparently create an 18" S3 AP3 rapid fire lasgun with an external power source. You can also apparently create a 24" S3 AP5 rapid fire lasgun with an external power source. Given that, it doesn't stretch my credulity in the least to imagine that there are laser weapons in the Imperium that are 18" S3 AP4 assault 2, and can be overcharged to 12" S3 AP3 assault 1.
For the sake of following GW's nothing-is-named-the-same-unless-it-has-identical-stats convention, perhaps this "hellgun" should be called something else, but it certainly doesn't trigger my fluff alarms.
I just think the unit it belongs to is way too good.
Madness
02-23-2010, 08:15 AM
It's not that, it's just that hellgun = lasgun+hotshot, so taking a hellgun and putting a hotshot power pack in means reloading, not equipping special ammo.
The lasgun (with or without hotshot) come in various shapes and most of them can switch from single shot to burst to full auto, the weapon so it's not very hard to justify various type of shots, just try and stay under the "master-crafted" level.
Atrotos
02-23-2010, 10:09 AM
- Hmmm... 3 Attacks base is pretty hardcore but I could accept it with that kind of point cost.
- Hellgun= awesome, thank you for 'fixing' that ;)
-Auxiliaries seems like an unnecessary rule to me.
-Kneeling Shot kinda sucks compared to the other two and "Skirmish Tactics" is definitely the wrong name for what "Storm Troopers" do
-The following I would only accept as wargear or "special training" upgrades: Deep Strike, Fleet, Infiltrate, Scouts. Having everything stock seems like too much.
-Initiative 5 seems like too much for unaugmented humans. I would be more willing to accept it if they had wargear to explain it.
-And They Shall Know No Fear is out of place. To me it's always been a benefit Marines receive as part of their physical enhancement (the mind is affected as well). You're a rules writer design your own version of it. It'll be more original and you won't have to put up with the "But they're not marines" reaction.
If you've read about my Stellan Hoplites you know I've learned a lot about fielding "souped up" Storm Troopers/Veterans. Units such as these suffer heavily from 'Grey Knights' syndrome. Yes they're awesome and their special rules make them way better than anything else in their class but it sure does suck when a flamer template makes all 200 points of them vanish in one shot. Take away some SR's and make them available as upgrades. This lets people choose what they want so that they don't have to pay for the whole package.
You're also playing a dangerous game fielding what is essentially an IG unit next to Space Marines. This makes balancing ten times as hard.
EDIT: Powerfist and plasma pistol are overcosted by 5 points.
Master Bryss
02-23-2010, 10:33 AM
I shall reply to stuff in no particular order.
One: These guys are hard to do right, I've thrown in everything so I have a pool of stuff to work with. It comes down to chopping off some stuff now and making them uprgrades.
One: Auxiliaries is in there as a 'fluffy' rule, as I want the main focus to be on the Chapter itself.
Two: What was once the Hellgun is now the Hot-Shot Lasgun. Therefore, I can use the name however I like. Nobody likes Inquisitorial STs so I'll ignore them.
Three: The idea is the STs don't break easily. They now have the half of ATSKNF that mattered for them.
Four: I should explain. THE ENTIRE CHAPTER IS AT LEAST INITIATIVE 5 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE MINDLESS. There's a bombshell for ya!
Five: Originally in the place of Kneeling Shot was one that let me shoot, combat roll D3" and then Go To Ground until my next Movement Phase. Should I put that one back in?
Six: AoS is a very radical Codex. The rules for Raxian auxiliaries can actually represent three things, the actual Raxian PDF, an Inquisitorial private army, or the beleagured Guard forces of whatever hell-hole of a planet the Chapter ends up on. These guys are what happens when there's no Schola.
Seven: I'll keep Deep Strike as stock and do Special Training upgrades.
Eight: Wow. It's so nice to get new critics!
Madness
02-23-2010, 11:02 AM
Then let the marines with I5 and troopers with 4, 4 is still a lot for a human, remember that the average human stats are
average human 22331315
trained soldier 33331317
trained HARD 34331317
alt. 43331317
Higher stats either represent veterans of thousands of battles/exceptionally had trained humans/augmented/mutants. I5 is beyond exceptional, I4 is already exceptional for a troop choice. I know that it sucks not being able to differentiate, but it's the road they took since 3rd ed. everything nowadays turns out to be pretty close to either a bunch of threes or fours, 5 is already an exceptional value.
About Ld, I see how you might need them to be stubborn, and I appreciate the sentiment, ATSKNF might stay in my opinion, but not alongside a high Ld value.
The term hellgun has always been a nickname for the hotshot lasgun, so if you really really really want a different weapon, pick a different name, or add "foobar pattern" after it. Lascarabine? Lasrifle? Lasblunderbuss? Pick any.
Master Bryss
02-23-2010, 11:15 AM
Raxian Hellgun it is then.
Changed to I4
EDIT:@ Madness: If there's one thing the Codex could do with it's better presentation. Any chance of some help?
Madness
02-23-2010, 12:35 PM
Let's see if I can fluffify the new gun.
Raxian Pattern Hellgun:
A more compact version of a lasgun that along with the normal single/burst/full auto settings also allows for an overload burst configuration that increases armor penetration while reducing accuracy.
Each time a Raxian Pattern Hellgun fires, the controlling player can choose which setting is being used:
Normal
Range 18", S3, AP4, Assault 2
Overload
Range 12", S3, AP3, Assault 1 (Gets hot!)
Gets hot is not necessary but it would look nice. I'd even allow a S4 to make up for it.
About the codex, I'm still working out the font sizes (done with the correct margins) and the automatic table of contents. I identified the exact font faces, I can prop something up if you provide me some images to use as a frame.
Master Bryss
02-23-2010, 12:47 PM
The problem with making the gun S4 Gets Hot is that it just becomes Vengeance Rounds with one less shot. I like the fluff though, although I haven't really done any for weapons!
Codex imagery right now consists of some basic units done on the B+C. Will one of them do?
Lindargo
02-23-2010, 12:50 PM
Nice entry,
Perhaps instead of calling them kneeling shots, they could be called 'Prone Shot' (so yes they would lie down, perhaps they get a cover save as if they went to ground but can get up next turn?)
-lin
Master Bryss
02-23-2010, 01:08 PM
@Lindargo: Thank you so much. I really needed it to be lying down, but couldn't for the life of me think of a name, so it became kneeling.
Madness
02-23-2010, 01:19 PM
It was an idea, but I guess that downsizing from 18" 3 3 Rapid to 12" 3 3 Assault 1 isn't that much of a stretch even with no change. Let me rewrite the fluff accordingly (and add some)
Raxian Pattern Hellgun: A more compact version of a hot-shot lasgun that sacrifices some of the impact for a higher rate of fire. Along with the normal single/burst/full auto settings it also allows for an overload burst configuration that restores the original armor penetration capacity of standard hellguns while reducing accuracy.
Each time a Raxian Pattern Hellgun fires, the controlling player can choose which setting is being used:
Normal
Range 18", S3, AP4, Assault 2
Overload
Range 12", S3, AP3, Assault 1
About images, I don't need as much the random images for the inside of the codex (those can come later) as I need the frame (I guess you might see it as a border/background/watermark image) to use on most of the pages.
Master Bryss
02-23-2010, 01:25 PM
Hmm, I like it. You couldn't have a go at writing fluff for the D'Angelus Bolter could you?
As for a border, I've just done the Codex in Word and don't have one.
Madness
02-23-2010, 02:17 PM
Make one? Or provide me with material I can use to make one. Doodles are necessary for a pretty pretty codex. :P
Let's have a take at the Bolter.
D'Angelus Bolter
Devised bazillions (replace) of years ago by the then Master of the Forge (titlechange if needed) Foobarius D'Angelus (replace) the D'Angelus Bolter is a variation of the Godwin pattern bolter featuring a multitude of small tweaks that combined with the Foomarines (replace) training ad aptitude for "hip shooting" grant a better precision in movement and higher accuracy. Among said changes are microsuspenders, collimation software for the weapon sights and helmet autosenses, synchronized armor motives and sometimes even a simple rifle sling.
Nabterayl
02-23-2010, 03:06 PM
If I could have a go at that?
D'Angelus Pattern Boltgun
This is a stocky, compact pattern of boltgun devised for close quarters fighting. The D'Angelus Pattern boltgun features a reinforced electrically-driven action that has been carefully timed to cycle almost twice as fast as a standard boltgun. Combined with special powered-loading magazines, this allows the D'Angelus Pattern to achieve rates of fire that rival a storm bolter in a much more compact weapon that is handier to use for power-armored marines. However, the inferior pointing characteristics of the shorter weapon and the relentless hammering of the heavy reinforced bolt, combined with the D'Angelus boltgun's lighter weight, reduces the weapon's effective range even in the steady hands of an armored space marine.
Madness
02-23-2010, 03:41 PM
I didn't want to mary sue it too much so I took the "it's not just the weapon, it's also everything around it" road. But my writing is plain awful. Nab, could you try and rewrite my idea in english english?
P.S.: the bolter can actually produce a sufficient amount of fire to justify assault 2, but normally a lot of bullets are wasted on missed shots unless the shooter has time to aim carefully so I figure out that balancing that wouldn't have meant that you're ending up with a bolter that shoots TWICE as fast as a normal one.
Nabterayl
02-23-2010, 04:19 PM
P.S.: the bolter can actually produce a sufficient amount of fire to justify assault 2, but normally a lot of bullets are wasted on missed shots unless the shooter has time to aim carefully so I figure out that balancing that wouldn't have meant that you're ending up with a bolter that shoots TWICE as fast as a normal one.
This is one of those areas of the space marine armory that makes no sense to me. Fluff-wise, as far as I can tell, the only thing a storm bolter has going for it is that it fires twice as fast as a regular bolter (because, contrary to many audio-visual depictions, the barrels would not fire simultaneously). The result of this doubled rate of fire, apparently, is to make the weapon assault 2 rather than twin-linked rapid fire. "Assault" generally denotes one of two things - either a very high rate of fire (e.g., storm bolters, shootaz, and anything with "carbine" in its name), or special stabilizing technology. Space marines don't really have a high-tech aesthetic, so I went for the former. I'm pretty convinced that a Godwyn bolter has a very low rate of fire (~200 rpm is my best guess), so overdriving the action (which I'm also pretty convinced is electrically driven in all boltguns) seemed about right to me.
But since you asked ... :D
I didn't want to mary sue it too much so I took the "it's not just the weapon, it's also everything around it" road. But my writing is plain awful. Nab, could you try and rewrite my idea in english english?
Whereas most chapters favor a fire-and-movement approach to firefights, alternating static and mobile elements of a fire team, the Angels of Secrecy prefer to strike in a single overwhelming attack that transitions smoothly from fire on the move to close assault. Accordingly, it is not uncommon for the chapter's warriors to lavish upon their faithful boltguns extra targeters that tie the weapons more closely to their helmet autosenses or hard-wired bionics, microsuspensor units to steady the weapon in any firing stance, simple short-range laser designators, or other such small honors that suit the bolter for the chapter's rapid shock tactics. Over time, these small personal touches became so common within the chapter that they almost constituted a new pattern of boltgun - and indeed, even many Angels of Secrecy refer to the "D'Angelus Pattern" as if it were an officially recognized STC design.
Madness
02-23-2010, 04:43 PM
Firing in a
a-a-a-a-a-
-b-b-b-b-b
gives you a recoil of
1111111111
whereas
a-a-a-a-a-
b-b-b-b-b-
gives you a recoil of
2-2-2-2-2- that's probably the reason why it's alternated, but the amount of rounds put out is actually double. The rate of fire of the bolter is way lower but in more detailed games marines have a special skill that lets them fire twice its normal output if they are standing. Since I doubt that the mechanical features of a bolter are altered by the marine feet position, I have to guess that it is because they actually score more hits. So it was acceptable to me to think that a marine able to fire full auto with a decent precision could be translated in assault 2.
Rate of fire-wise I put weapons in this order:
heavy 1
assault 1
heavy 2
rapid fire
assault 2/heavy 3
assault 3/heavy 4
and so on. Of course it's pure speculation, but I feel it's acceptable enough.
Now that I listed it I notice how small is the "distance" between rapid fire and assault 2, but I still like the "rounded all corners" better than "it's fasterer!". :)
Master Bryss
02-24-2010, 10:33 AM
You've managed to correctly guess, without me even telling you, that I intended the D'Angelus to be lighter than a normal boltgun!
Whereas most chapters favor a fire-and-movement approach to firefights, alternating static and mobile elements of a fire team, the Angels of Secrecy prefer to strike in a single overwhelming attack that transitions smoothly from fire on the move to close assault. Accordingly, it is not uncommon for the chapter's warriors to lavish upon their faithful boltguns extra targeters that tie the weapons more closely to their helmet autosenses or hard-wired bionics, microsuspensor units to steady the weapon in any firing stance, simple short-range laser designators, or other such small honors that suit the bolter for the chapter's rapid shock tactics. Over time, these small personal touches became so common within the chapter that they almost constituted a new pattern of boltgun - and indeed, even many Angels of Secrecy refer to the "D'Angelus Pattern" as if it were an officially recognized STC design.
I agree with this one the most. The guns are still meant to be lighter though.
I'll have a go at bordering it at some point.
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