starting fantasy: tomb kings

[Tacoo]

Ok im thinking about starting fantasy, and i know if i did i would start with tomb kings. i have a little spot in my heart (and wallet) for the undead. what would be a god starting set for them, and how good are they at the moment in fantasy?

[mathhammer]

there the bottom of the barrel in fantasy.

There slow, they die quickly, they can't really win in CC. and they really can't stop magic.

To start.
Buy
1 casket of souls
1 screaming skull catapult
2 tomb scorpions
some tomb guard
and the batallion box. Can never go wrong with more skeletons and chariots.

Also playing under 2000 pts hurts, badly

[elrodogg]

The rumor mill also has them getting a new army within the next two armies or so. Supposedly it's either Ogres and then Tomb Kings or Tomb Kings then Ogres. If that is the case, then wait. GW dumped the old skeletons for Vampires and came out with much better newer models, and Tomb Kings essentially shared that same sprue. I imagine the new releases for them would include new basic troopers.

That said, if you wanna get a jump on them... scorpions, catapault, casket are all good purchases.

[Mazelf]

Scorpions are awesome! carrion are not that bad either, flying undead FTW!

[Tacoo]

Are the ushabti good? i love there models so was wondering about how strong they are for the tomb kings.

[mathhammer]

Are the ushabti good? i love there models so was wondering about how strong they are for the tomb kings.

glass cannon, if you do take them have to be unit of 4 really, and screening dosen't hurt.

[Lord Azaghul]

I would serioulsy wait until 8th ed rolls out. Some of the very scant rumour suggest a drastic change in the game. So I'd hate to buy a bunch of stuff I couldn't use how I wanted in a few months.

[sirens_slave]

Hey good to hear that you're taking an interest in playing with TK. Right here goes:

I would recommend waiting until the release of the newer models (surely we are due some soon). However if you want to start then I can give the following advice.

Tomb Kings live and die by three things:

Hero's - Tomb King, Liche High Priest, Liche Priest, Tomb Prince and Icon Bearer
Special - Carrion, Tomb Guard, Ushabti, Chariots, Tomb Scorpion
The way the army plays with other units.

If you want a thinking mans army I would highly recommend TK's under the current rule set.

Heros...
You need to play with either a tomb king or tomb prince as your general. I'd say the Tomb King (personal preference and play style) as you move the chariots from special to core, get to have a funky banner on your skele's and have the highest LD available to you if anything goes belly up. Not to mention the two incantations per turn that have a radius, unlike the prince, and lots of funky gear.
Liche priests then can lend support to the army as they get the full range of spells.
Always and I mean always take 4 character slots (personal preference).

Special...
Ushabti are lovely looking models and probably one of the best ogre sized models GW have done. However game wise I prefer other special choices. 2 Tomb Scorpions are fantastic utility tools as they can flank charge cavalry, hunt war machines and kill mages. Tomb Guard are the next unit - put a unit of these bad boys down with the icon of rakaph and watch your opponent whince. 12" threat range in every direction yes please!!! So finally you get one more choice at 2K its either ushabti or carrion. I would say carrion everytime as they can do alot more tactically than the glass jaw of the ushabti. Hunt war machines, kill mages, small units, march block and charge first turn if u can get it off.

Tomb kings win by taking the charge then flanking with chariots or ushabti. Sometimes iv seen the bone giant take a side swipe at units. This requires forward planning on your behalf.

A final note on rares...
Screaming Skull - if your enemy has a unit that is scary hit it with the SSC. Theres a reason people dont like these.
Casket - It's good when you first start out but against any seasoned player it doesnt do much. If your opp has MR it wrecks the thing :( Sad but true.
Bone Giant - not worth its points especially when you can have 2 SSC for less than its points cost.

I would get a batallion, SSC, 2 Scorpions and characters. This will give you a nice even spread. This will form the basis of most if not all armies.

Hope this helps.

[GAR]

Tomb Kings require a little advance planning, but can be devastating if handled right.

There are a lot of options you can use to make them very tough for opponents to deal with.

Their magic is very strong, they never miscast, and usually I can get rid of everyones dispel scrolls by the end of my first magic phase.

A casket is extremely powerful, and scares everyone so they save dispel dice or a scroll to deal with it, so more often than not you will get your other incantations off.

Bone Giants are tough as well. Unstoppable assault is really hard, assuming the dice are with you.

My list typically has either khalida, who is a named character, who allows your archers to poison their arrows or a High Liche Priest and a tomb prince riding a chariot of fire.

all my other characters are Liche Priests.

I will wither go with a casket and a bone giant or two bone giants as my main hammers. With the archers as anvils, granted very weak anvils.

The casket is not affected by magic resistence, read FAQ. And it can dish out a lot of pain to an entire army.

bone giants are pretty good, if they don't blow their 1st round of CC and miss. I like 2 bone giants because on a flank attack, those 2 will usually wipe out a unit, averaging about 12-18 wounds at S6. The most wounds I have ever dished out was 27.

I am not so big on the Screaming Skull, because so many units currently are immune to Psychology, it is an expensive stone thrower and not much else.

Chariots are decent, but they are weak compared to other army's. However, TK chariots are a unit, not a single model, can have champions, standards and musicians along with magic banners and heros can join them.

TK cav is weak.

Tomb Scorpions are pretty good at taking out isolated things, war machines, some lone characters, wizards, and skirmishers. They don't do to well against larger blocks of troops.

All in all, it is a thinking man's army. You will not be able to take your army and stand toe to toe with Chaos Warriors, or even Skaven. You won't be able to out magic Slann and you won't be able to outmanuever Wood elves. But what you will be able to do play a tactical game, setting up your opponents and then crushing them.

Tomb Kings are not a power army, but it has a lot of subtle strengths that when fully utilized can really make it an army to reckon with.

[mathhammer]

The casket is not affected by magic resistence, read FAQ. And it can dish out a lot of pain to an entire army.


Yhea go read the Tomb kings FAQ and quit cheating people, here let me quote it:



Q. What happens if an enemy unit with Magic
Resistance is in line of sight of the Casket when its
incantation is released? Do you really add the Magic
Resistance dice to the dispel roll (and very easily screw
up the incantation)? More generally, if one of the
targets for the Casket has a special ability against
spells (Magic Resistance, rebound, dice stealing,
casting score reducing…), does it apply to the whole
Casket’s spell effect?
A. Magic Resistance does work against the Casket’s
Light of Death, so long as the model/unit with Magic
Resistance would be affected. Where there is more than
one unit with Magic Resistance that will be affected,
only one model/unit can add their extra dice (usually
the highest). In all other respects, the Light of Death
counts as magic that affects any enemy unit that can see
the Casket, so other effects would also work as they
would against any other magic. Having said that,
however, a magic item that ‘rebounds’ spells isn’t going
to have any effect – the Light of Death only ever affects
enemies.

[GAR]

Ah, thanks for the heads up, albeit somewhat rudely put. The rulebook has a different description of how MR works, but the FAQ does supercede that.

Still the casket is a potent weapon and will cause opposing players to store up dice or a scroll to stop it, or to use MR as stated to stop it from going off.

[sirens_slave]

I have to agree with Mathhammer - they are towards the bottom of the barrel. Not the worst due to being fear causing and unbreakable but pretty close.

With GAR's comments I think we have given you two different approaches to TK's. All in all how do you want to play the army?


Yhea go read the Tomb kings FAQ and quit cheating people, here let me quote it: - bit harsh dude but your correct. Even though it makes me weep a little :( Playing vs hounds of khorne annoys the hell outta me when playing with the casket...

[mathhammer]

I admit I was a little harsh in my post, for that I will apologize.

I personally use point denial tomb kings to win.

Tomb Kings are a really weak army one of the bottom 3, but I still love playing them. It's those little touches you don't see anymore in fantasy that I still love.

Why don't Tomb Kins ride Horses? Because Royalty rides in chariots.

There are chariot list but unless you have Setra your only moving 8" a turn.

There is an archery list using Khakida. (We always hit on 5, I love that rule)

So the goblin general is standing by himself, long range, sun in your eyes, birds flying overhead (As my opponent counts up the negative points) I look up smile and say "5s to hit"

The carrion with some magic help can first turn charge those war machines also.

But don't think your going into a battle with an upper hand, You will be out gunned, out fought, out leadership, and your hierophant will die at some point. But You get undead egypt.

[sirens_slave]

I think you forgot to say that the goblin general is in a building with deflecty shield dooda...

[GAR]

@mathhammer, we're cool.

One of the tactics I like is the Bone Giant Mambo.

Use the HLP w/ cloak of dunes.

Incantation for the charge

gets dispelled

Do it again, bone giant charges in flank

Break out the Hieratic Jar, send the 2nd bone giant right along the 1st one.

If it can be done with a regular LP before hand all the better.

2 bone giants charging in the side of most anything is very bad for them. well except a Bloodthirster, this doesn't work very well against that. Usually wind up with a dead BG and the other not too far behind.