What are the odds (with Orks attacking a Landraider)!

[Lost Vyper]

Today, i had one of the worst dice mishaps in all of my games...i played Orks against my friends Blood Angels and charged a 5 x Nobs + a Warboss, all with Powerklaws on to his Landraider. 20 attacks with S8 and 5 with S10 (with two re-rolls from the Lucky Stick) hitting with a 3+...two clansing hits... :eek:

Let´s just say, that the match was over in the next turn...;)

- Lost Vyper

[Denzark]

The 20 attacks should have got 3 hits - if you round up to 4 that still is only 0.66 of a glance.

The 5 x S10 with re-rolls should have been 4 mebbe 5. Even if all 5 hit you would only have done 2.5 Hull points - 1.7 and a bit penetrating and the chances of that being an 'explodes' with an AP2 powerclaw is remote.

I think 2 HP is about reasonable...

[Mr Mystery]

S8 nothing!

Orkses with Powerklaws is S9 on the charge (Sx2 for Klaw, with a base of 4, and Furious Charge for that +1S taking you up to S9 in the first round)......

So, working it out with my brian......

20 S9 attacks, hitting on threes. Let's be generous and round up, giving 14 hits. Of those, 2 should penetrate, and a further two should (statistically speaking!) be glances - that's enough to kill a Landraider right there. And some Nobz if you blow it up proper!

[Lost Vyper]

DAMMIT! Forgot about the S4 on the Nobs! This is what you get, when that´s like your fourth army you play...yep, i think the Denzarks 3 hits is a bit off :). Should have wrecked it...well, die (on the table as little plastic xenos) and learn...

[Defenestratus]

Its a dice game. This is why you can't have competitive 40k because despite a players' masterful maneuvering and preparation, the dice can and will always screw you thus the outcome of a 40k game truly proves nothing other than who is luckier overall.

[Mr Mystery]

That and he Noob'd himself out of S9 :p

[Path Walker]

no, the competitive players said that if you roll enough dice then it avergaes out so its fine.

[Charon]

Its a dice game. This is why you can't have competitive 40k because despite a players' masterful maneuvering and preparation, the dice can and will always screw you thus the outcome of a 40k game truly proves nothing other than who is luckier overall.

So said all people who ever lost games... "it is all about luck", "if I had not slipped, you would not have won you lucker", "I had lag", "well we started with dry tires although the weather reports predicted rain... turned out we were lucky that it did not start to rain"

The words "Orcs" and "Landraider" should have already been a hint that this was not a highly competitive game.
Funfact: "Luck" turns out to play not a big role in competitive 40k while it is a major part of casual 40k.

[Mr Mystery]

Why? Do 'competitive' players use loaded dice? Because if not, luck is everything to do with the game.

As Path Walker put (admitedly a bit snidely) we don't roll anywhere near enough nice in a game to tickle the gods of statistical probability.

You can position yourself as well as you like, but at the end of the day it's all down to how the dice are feeling not that day, but once that roll has been made.

[Path Walker]

Counterpoint to Charon, you're wrong.

[Mr Mystery]

As for 'highly competitive' 40k. That had better involve decent pyizes like pro-sports.

Because if not,....

http://38.media.tumblr.com/8a88f791b252bc00090b8193f35de1ce/tumblr_n1q03nyTyw1se9fcoo1_400.gif

This Gif will be used.

[Path Walker]

The weird thing about "Competitive 40K" is that its been the same small group for years telling us that 40k is a competitive game that should be played in the way they say it should, surprisingly they keep winning the events that they and their friends host and only use the rules they prefer.

[Dave Mcturk]

mini-meks get killsaws [killmeks] - st8 armour-bane ! bye bye A14. :rolleyes:

[Houghten]

Mini-meks ain't getting S8. They're base S3, with x2 from the killsaw and +1 from Furious Charge that's S7.

[Erik Setzer]

Its a dice game. This is why you can't have competitive 40k because despite a players' masterful maneuvering and preparation, the dice can and will always screw you thus the outcome of a 40k game truly proves nothing other than who is luckier overall.

Nope. I've had games with some incredibly poor luck, but I won't take anything away from my opponents. Most of the time a person should have pretty much average luck (and I do), and you should be able to compensate tactically for bad luck if you're a good "general."

[Dave Mcturk]

Nope. I've had games with some incredibly poor luck, but I won't take anything away from my opponents. Most of the time a person should have pretty much average luck (and I do), and you should be able to compensate tactically for bad luck if you're a good "general."

the larger point games you play - the more the 'snowball effect' of bad luck or bad decisions can be overcome. but in 7th where boots on the ground, high toughness, multiple wound options and overwatch are more effective than lets say 5th - smaller armies are 'more' affected by luck than larger ones.

- - - Updated - - -


Mini-meks ain't getting S8. They're base S3, with x2 from the killsaw and +1 from Furious Charge that's S7.

my bad - thought they were st4 ! ... still think its a useful addition to a large unit that might only have one claw-nob in ...

[Path Walker]

The point is, in any game of 40k, the dice rolls are as likely to swing wildly one way or the other as be average because you simply don't roll enough dice in any 40K game to tend toward average in any relevant statistical way.

That means that playing the game as competitive players like to, minimum terrain, predictable win conditions, are ignoring the possibility of luck to add interesting decisions to the game and instead requiring the use of boring spam lists and redundancy to try and mitigate it by rolling more dice.

[Lord Krungharr]

Competitive poker is a real thing, competitive baseball and football and basketball is a real thing, and all of those use statistical probabilities in achieving victory. They line up batters vs certain pitchers based on probabilities, same thing in the other sports. We get to choose our armies and load-outs to maximize probability of success vs certain other opponents. So yes, 40k is in fact competitive, some people just choose to compete in a way to look good on the table and/or in regards to storyline rather than statistical probabilities....then they will more often lose vs those who compete for higher chance of winning. Both players can have fun doing what they do; and if the Orks woulda smashed apart that Land Raider both players would remember it for a long time!