Eldar: One trick space ponies?

[NobleSeven]

So at the moment Eldar have been topping the tourney charts with a pretty common list that spams Wave Serpents backed by a Wraithknight or two. After flipping through the current codex, it seems that Eldar have so many other cool models and options than just spammy Mechdar.

Do Eldar have any other competitive builds? Is spamming swarms of jet bikes still viable? How about waves of infantry? Are Eldar just one trick ponies now?

[ShadowcatX]

So at the moment Eldar have been topping the tourney charts with a pretty common list that spams Wave Serpents backed by a Wraithknight or two.

No they haven't.

[DarkLink]

They did for a long time. Then GW released a ton of stuff that's crazier than serpent spam. Now, Eldar are still extremely good, but there are other armies just as good.

[NobleSeven]

I was just basing this on the recent LVO tournament results that took place a week or so ago. I heard a spammy style Wave Serpent list (certainly not as spammy as it could be) placed in the top 3.

Regardless, my question remains. Can Eldar play a competitive game without spamming at least 3 Wave Serpents or more? Do they have other viable builds?

[Anggul]

3 isn't really spam. 3 means you have to be careful with your shields or those Serpents are dropping quickly. It's Serpent spam when you can happily fire off all of your shields from turn one because the sudden damage output kills enough to make up for the lack of 2+ against pens.

Eldar can certainly be strong without Serpent spam. There are plenty of fun and effective combinations for them.

It will mostly be Serpent spam Eldar that reaches the highest because it's so powerful, but unless you are playing at that 'level' then you don't need to worry about it.

[Lost Vyper]

I don´t play in tournaments, but our club is still competitive (altough we try to play just for fun :) )...as an Eldar player, i usually use MAX two WS´s, just to switch things around. Blood Angels and Sternguard in pods will eradicate WS´s quickly, so i gots to get around that often. If i face GK, i HAVE to have WS´s, cos of the stupid torrent flamers and i must pack loads of AP2 weaponry. Against Xenos, you can have more fun with your lists (our club doesn´t have a Tau player thou) and fe. this was my last list against the New Necrons :

HQ
Farseer (Mantle of Laughing God, Jetbike) zooming around, Psychic Shrieking and other shenanigans...

Illic goes with the Battery, giving them 2+ save in the ruins

TROOP
5 x Rangers harass in the other side, infiltration
3 x Jetbikes object grabbers
3 x Jetbikes object grabbers

FAST
Crimson Hunter stock

HEAVY
Wraithknight stock gathering fire and for CC

3 x Vaul´s Wrath Support Battery stock

4 x Dark Reaper + Exarch (Tempest Launcher, Fast Shot, Night Vision) manning the Icarus, no Jink for you Sir! ;)

FORTIFICATION
Imperial Bastion (Icarus)
---------------------------------
1252p (if your opponent isn´t cool with the 2p over, drop the Night Vision from the DR Exarch, 1497p)

this match is in our batrep´s, and it went well!

https://www.youtube.com/user/RESEDAPRIME/videos

- Lost Vyper

[ShadowcatX]

They did for a long time. Then GW released a ton of stuff that's crazier than serpent spam. Now, Eldar are still extremely good, but there are other armies just as good.

Its not just that GW released other stuff, the rules change to jink seriously hurt serpents (which few people realize).

[DarkLink]

No, it isn't. In fact, under 7th ed rules, a classic serpent spam army with a pair of Wraithknights won the BAO. Thanks to holofields and the new jink rules, serpents can gain a 3+ cover at will. Sure, there's a minor cost associated with it, but it comes out at a wash. But now with Imperial Knights and Flyrant spam and the fact that serpents have been around long enough for people how to figure out how to face them (SM players have started taking Sicaran and Legion of the Damned, the LVO top Nids player took Lictors, etc) and the inclusion of things like the Lynx (why take a Wave Serpent when you could take a bigger, better vehicle with ranged Str D?) means that while Eldar and Serpents are just as good as they've ever been, they're both less common and less prevalent than they were before. It's still perfectly possible to go and win a major tournament with Eldar, the only difference from a year ago is that you'll have some real competition now.

[Charon]

Actually I really like the eldar codex.
While there are some issues with internal balance (Serpents most obvious) the beauty of the codex is that nearly every unit is useful and you are hardly punished for just taking units you like.
There are only a very few units I would stay away from and thats just a "1st world problem" if I look at my other armies that scream "take these units or never ever win with me"

[Lost Vyper]

I agree. There´s only Banshees, that i don´t ever use. Even Scorpions get to come out and play sometimes :). Heavy -slot and Fast- are almost always maxed out. Altough i´m not waiting for a new codex, i´m curious about the Formations that´ll come with it...maybe they should just release another Supplement (i would love some Alaitoc Sniper-stuff!) and formations in that...

[Defenestratus]

The serpent spam thing is a joke really. Its tough to play against but the ones who usually are so unimaginative that they go on the internet to make their lists don't have the higher-thought capacity to actually put that kind of list to good use. Getting up close and tapping the back of the WS with a krak grenade or two always works best - something that is really easy to do when your dumb opponent just parks them on the back edge and thinks he's going to shoot down anything that comes hunting it.

My favorite Eldar lists right now are ghostlists with wraithguard and wraithblades.

It goes kinda like this.

(Not using Iyanden sup either)
Spiritseer
Farseer on foot
10x WG with cannons
10x WB's with axes and shields
5x WG with scythes in a Serpent w/HFs and Ghostwalk.
1 Hemlock (Because I love how everyone basically ignores it because the internet says its bad)
1 WK stock
2 WL's with swords and BL's.

Now the internet will tell you that this list is terribad. The internet is full of sh!t. This list is incredibly tough (with only two models with a toughness less than 6) and hits very very hard. Even bullet shot out of this army is AP2. Don't forget to spirit mark stuff. It really makes a difference.

This army's crowning glory was obliterating a 3 knight list. Oh how glorious that was.

[Charon]

Now the internet will tell you that this list is terribad. The internet is full of sh!t. This list is incredibly tough (with only two models with a toughness less than 6) and hits very very hard. Even bullet shot out of this army is AP2. Don't forget to spirit mark stuff. It really makes a difference.

When will some people understand that this is meta dependent and is more a general guidleline than fixed rules.
I run in a Ig heavy meta. This list would get obliterated by turn 2 no matter wat you do. The few AP2 shots would do **** to 40 fearless conscripts which in turn shield tanks that give a **** about your T6 and 3+
On the other hand if you face a lot of elite armies (like GK, Imperial Knights,..) Wraithconstructs are absurdly good.


This army's crowning glory was obliterating a 3 knight list. Oh how glorious that was.

This is exactly what I mean. This list is an absolut no-brainer against any knight list. Beating 3 Knights with this is as glorious as stealing candy from a baby.

[Ravingbantha]

I'm of the belief that any army can beat any army with any number of builds. I've won a large number of games against a variety of opponents using a variety of builds. In fact, the only reason I keep up with popular builds, is to know what to stay away from. I think people spend to much time and effert trying to min/max their army, and not enough time understanding tactics.

[Defenestratus]

When will some people understand that this is meta dependent and is more a general guidleline than fixed rules.
I run in a Ig heavy meta. This list would get obliterated by turn 2 no matter wat you do. The few AP2 shots would do **** to 40 fearless conscripts which in turn shield tanks that give a **** about your T6 and 3+
On the other hand if you face a lot of elite armies (like GK, Imperial Knights,..) Wraithconstructs are absurdly good.



This is exactly what I mean. This list is an absolut no-brainer against any knight list. Beating 3 Knights with this is as glorious as stealing candy from a baby.

I really don't care about "local meta". I'll show up anywhere with that list and have a good time and have a good accounting of myself. I love people who think they can play 40k on paper just by comparing lists. Go play Dungeons and Dragons if you like to play your games on paper.

[Charon]

Im sorry if the game is rocket science to you :(

[HERO]

Now the internet will tell you that this list is terribad. The internet is full of sh!t. This list is incredibly tough (with only two models with a toughness less than 6) and hits very very hard. Even bullet shot out of this army is AP2. Don't forget to spirit mark stuff. It really makes a difference.

This army's crowning glory was obliterating a 3 knight list. Oh how glorious that was.

Yup, Wraith lists are completely absurd vs. a lot of the meta in a good way.

[Dave Mcturk]

7th edition favours high T units and boots on the ground. does anyone else remember 'Tritactics' ?

eldar armies are all awesome as scissors or paper - but struggle to be rock !