Eldar Armor Facings

[Mobious]

So the X that you draw through a Rhino chassis to determine armor facings is pretty straight forward, but what about Falcons and Serpents? it usually does nIt matter, but when determining cover saves it makes a big difference.

So do you draw just a plain old X like on a Predator, or do you draw imaginary lines through the inner tips of the front wings and the back hatch? This makes it very hard to get Rear Armor on Serpents to ignore Energy Shields, and hard to get cover on the side armor of Eldar Skimmers since it would be so large.

My local group has done the latter, but I recently started using Vasal and they have it different. Enlighten me because I cannot find anything in the rule book to help much--they only give one example and it is a rectangular Predator.

[Darkriver]

We normally use the X that is in the center of the new green large blast template to help determine this as it looks to be on par to what GW was talking about in the book. Don't think its perfectly like how they describe in the book but gives a fair assessment.

[Nabterayl]

That's a really good question. I don't think there's necessarily a right answer, but it is obviously true that some GW models have wider side aspects than front (e.g., look at the battlewagon).

In my personal opinion, tip to hatch seems off. The tip of the fins seems like a reasonable place to measure to, but when it comes to placing the other end of the line, it seems to me that the rear aspect of a Falcon or Serpent should at least include the engines.

[Silver Drakes Legion]

It's the first option that is correct bc it says the corners of the vehicle. Which would be the points and the backdoor since they are part of the body of the vehicle angled from the center of the body. While this does give it an advantage I'm confused why it would matter with coversaves. You just have to make sure half the vehicle is obscure no matter the angle.

[Nabterayl]

It matters for the difference between a 4+ and a 3+ cover save. It's possible to be in the front arc of a vehicle, but only have a shot at the side. If that's the case, then the vehicle receives a 3+ cover save whether it's 50% obscured or not.

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the hatch walls count as corners, though. When I look at a Falcon from the front, the rear "corners" that I see most naturally are part of the engine cowlings.

[pgarfunkle]

I've always imagined an X above the vehicle when playing, either shooting or being shot at. Thinking about it I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to shoot at an Eldar vehicle :( lol

[Silver Drakes Legion]

Well that is the farthest corners of the vehicle with eldar. Corners are a little difficult but the X goes from the corners in the diagram in the rule book it doesn't mean it's a perfect X since it just goes from the center on the vehicle to the corners with the predator. The Eldar get an advantage on this but it's about the same size as the front armor arc. Making much more of an X then if you included the engines in my opinion.

Thanks, I did completely forgot about the 3+ cover save rule. I don't mind having difficulty getting that save then making it very difficult to hit rear on my WS.

[Mobious]

The size of the facing matters because of the 3+ cover rule, and because to get a cover save you must obscure 50% of the vehicle facing in which the shooter is. So if a model is shooting in the front arc of the Falcon/Serpent, then you determine whether 50% of the front are is covered--not the whole vehicle.

I really do think the engines should count as rear but I guess I'll just leave it up to my group to decide. Thanks

[Nabterayl]

Well that is the farthest corners of the vehicle with eldar. Corners are a little difficult but the X goes from the corners in the diagram in the rule book it doesn't mean it's a perfect X since it just goes from the center on the vehicle to the corners with the predator. The Eldar get an advantage on this but it's about the same size as the front armor arc. Making much more of an X then if you included the engines in my opinion.
To me, an eldar vehicle from the top down looks like an oval with two rectangles at the rear, which means you'd have to pick which set of corners we're talking about - "farthest corner" isn't actually specified. Since the model gives me a choice, I'd prefer to see the rear of an eldar vehicle include its engines, which means picking the wider rear aspect.

But I don't think Silver Drakes Legion's way is wrong. The lesson here is probably to check with your opponent up front and make sure you agree which set of corners you're going to use.

[Tynskel]

It matters for the difference between a 4+ and a 3+ cover save. It's possible to be in the front arc of a vehicle, but only have a shot at the side. If that's the case, then the vehicle receives a 3+ cover save whether it's 50% obscured or not.

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the hatch walls count as corners, though. When I look at a Falcon from the front, the rear "corners" that I see most naturally are part of the engine cowlings.

The reason you have to shoot the side is because for some reason you cannot shoot the front. This is from the position of the gun holder. That means the vehicle has a cover save, because you cannot see the obvious target. Because you are shooting at an obtuse angle, and the original target is already obscured, the opponent gets a 3+ cover save.

[Lerra]

Locally, we play that for Tau and Eldar skimmer, you make an X with two perpendicular lines, and that determines front/sidea/rear armor. Lots of players draw the X on the flying base with permanent marker for clarity. It is a whole lot easier than trying to find the X another way, especially when you consider conversions.