Stay 1" away of enemies

[pigei]

This is a subtle discussion that came out in my local group:

We all know that normally you cannot move closer than 1" from enemy units or end the movement closer than 1" of enemy unit.

The exceptions to this general statement are:


Ramming or performing a tank shock
Performing an emergency disembarkation.
Assaulting an enemy unit



Bullet 1 do not present any problem.

Bullet 2: some one raised the dubt that actually emergency disembarkation must still comply to the general rule.
The rulebook (pag 66) lists a couple of conditions for the standad disembarkation and after a full stop says something like: "If this is not possible then the unit might perform an emergency disembarkation".
To me this means that I do not have to observe the 1" rule. What do you think?


Bullet 3: Suppose that you assault a unit A but there are other enemy on the way. Am I allowed to pass close to them (within 1") to reach A?

The rulebook (pag 32) says that assaulting unit may move within 1" of enemy models. It does not say "within 1" of enemy models of the assoulted unit".

So in my opinion this is perfectly valid.

Before answer this question consider the following example:

I have two enemy units A and B. A is exactly 6" away, while B is 6.5" away in the same direction.
I declare an assault on A. By doing so my first model move 6" but ends up closer than 1" from B (without being in base to base contact).
Would you allow this assault to happen?

[Wolfshade]

Bullet 2:With emergency disemarkation, if you are unable to dissembark then the model is destroyed.

The assault would happen but unit B could inhibit the defenders reacts as you can't move a model through a space which is smaller than their base. Unit B would not be within the combat.

Though personally speaking just nudge that model and assault both units ;)

[pigei]

Bullet 2:With emergency disemarkation, if you are unable to dissembark then the model is destroyed.

That's fine. But what if your only option is being 1" from the enemy. Would you allow that?. By reading the rulebook wording I would.




The assault would happen but unit B could inhibit the defenders reacts as you can't move a model through a space which is smaller than their base. Unit B would not be within the combat.


So generally speaking you are allowing an assaulting unit to pass or end movement within 1" of any other enemy model (not only the assaulted one).



Though personally speaking just nudge that model and assault both units ;)


I could... if I was an Eldar player :D

[DarkLink]

Bullet 2: some one raised the dubt that actually emergency disembarkation must still comply to the general rule.
The rulebook (pag 66) lists a couple of conditions for the standad disembarkation and after a full stop says something like: "If this is not possible then the unit might perform an emergency disembarkation".
To me this means that I do not have to observe the 1" rule. What do you think?


Bullet 3: Suppose that you assault a unit A but there are other enemy on the way. Am I allowed to pass close to them (within 1") to reach A?

The rulebook (pag 32) says that assaulting unit may move within 1" of enemy models. It does not say "within 1" of enemy models of the assoulted unit".

So in my opinion this is perfectly valid.

Before answer this question consider the following example:

I have two enemy units A and B. A is exactly 6" away, while B is 6.5" away in the same direction.
I declare an assault on A. By doing so my first model move 6" but ends up closer than 1" from B (without being in base to base contact).
Would you allow this assault to happen?

For point 2, I'm not sure how you're reading this as allowing you to get within 1" of enemy models. The only thing the rule does is allow you to ignore the normal entry points for the vehicle. It even specifically states that models that cannot disembark are destroyed, implying you still follow most of the normal disembarkation rules.

Edit: Ok, I get what your point 3 is about. When I first read it, it sounded like you were trying to deny the assault on unit A in the example. No, the rules are quite clear, as you stated. The assault is perfectly legal.

The only thing pg 34 disallows is moving through enemy/friendly models, and ending your movement in base to base with enemy models that you did not attempt to assault.

So in your given example, assaulting unit A would be perfectly legal. Nowhere does it violate any of the assault move rules laid out on pg 34.

[Dooley]

1. Your Ok get B2B
2. Your Dead! I have strategically placed my models around your transport to ensure this! MWAHAHA!
3. Stop Being a JERK and continue on to the assault phase!....UNLESS there are fabulous prizes involved...in which case back up and you cant assault me...hahahaha! But no seriously assault away!

[pigei]

Point 2:
It seems that we all agree in allowing assaulting unit to pass closer than 1" from ANY enemy unit. This also means that, provided there is enough space I can pass close to anohter unit without assaulting it and assault another one which is farther away.

Point 3:
What puzzles me is the wording present at page 67:

"If any models cannod disembark because of enemies [...] the unit can perform an 'emergency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" "

As written it seems that if I cannot disembark because I would end up closer than 1" from enemy units THEN I can still perform an emergency disembarkation and thus ending within 1" of enemy units.

[Nabterayl]

Point 3:
What puzzles me is the wording present at page 67:

"If any models cannod disembark because of enemies [...] the unit can perform an 'emergency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2"
Remember that a normal disembarkation is restricted by the need to deploy all models in the passenger unit within 2" of an access point. There are many circumstances in which an enemy unit could prevent this sort of disembarkation while still leaving room around the transport for an emergency disembarkation. Most access points can be blocked by as few as one enemy models. Even a Land Raider, which has a relatively large access point in its front ramp, could be blocked by three 40mm bases without much trouble. Of it could be that some access points are blocked by terrain, friendly models, whatever.

In this sort of situation - where there is no room to disembark via an access point, but there is room to place the transported unit in coherency within 2" of the transport hull generally, the page 67 rule comes into play.

[pigei]

Nabterayl,
I do agree with you. The only issue is that I was looking for a confirmation of the fact that during an emergency disembarkation you do not have to respect the 1" distance from enemy.You seem to agree to that.

[mercer]

Point 3 has recently been a subject on my blog. I said that if your assaulting you still have stay 1" away when passing enemy units to reach another. The reason is it says you must always be 1" away unless assaulting and the only time you can be wihtin 1" is in a assault, which your in base to base. I don't think if you change from normal movement you must be at least 1" away to you can move right past in the assault phase and ignore the 1" gap.

I think it means you disregard the 1" gap because when assaulting you move into base to base contact. When moving the models into assault you still must be 1" away from enemy models, unless assaulting them.

[Nabterayl]

The only issue is that I was looking for a confirmation of the fact that during an emergency disembarkation you do not have to respect the 1" distance from enemy.You seem to agree to that.
I don't agree at all. I think the page 67 language is given full effect with the 1" distance still in effect, so I see no reason to read an exception in to page 67.

I see what you're driving at - page 67 does say "anywhere within 2"," after all - but I don't think we can take that literally. We wouldn't say that we could perform an emergency disembarkation onto enemy models, for instance, even though "anywhere," by itself, allows that. Nor would we say that we can perform an emergency embarkation onto impassable terrain, even though "anywhere" would cover that too.

EDIT: I want to emphasize that this is not a common sense argument. We could say, "Anywhere within 2" does not permit placing models on top of other models because that's just common sense," but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is, "Anywhere within 2" means anywhere within 2", without regard to access points, but subject to the normal rules for placing models on the table." That's what I think the "real rule" is.

I think we have to read page 67 as simply permitting an emergency disembarkation. Emergency disembarkation is not the same thing as saying "place the passenger models on the table by hook or by crook." Everywhere else, emergency disembarkation simply means disembarking without regard to access points, but with regard to all the other normal restrictions. I think we should read the rule in question in the same way.

[pigei]

Actually I am not focusing on the "anywere" term but better on the "if any models cannot disembark because of enemies".

For sure the sentence "because of enemies" refer to the fact that I cannot place a model on the space occupied by enemies.
But why "because of enemy" should not refer also on the fact that I am 1" within of enemies?
Isn't being 1" of enemy model caused because of the presence of enemies and thus because of enemies?

[Nabterayl]

For sure the sentence "because of enemies" refer to the fact that I cannot place a model on the space occupied by enemies.
I agree.

But why "because of enemy" should not refer also on the fact that I am 1" within of enemies?
It should, yes. That's what I've been saying.

Isn't being 1" of enemy model caused because of the presence of enemies and thus because of enemies?
Yes.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. To clarify, here's an example of how I think it works ...

Let's imagine a transport with one access point that is exactly 1" wide. Such an access point can accommodate a maximum of 15 25mm bases, arranged in base to base contact in a 5x3 formation.

Now let's imagine that there's a single enemy 25mm base directly opposite the access point and 1" away from it (right in the heart of what would have been the 5x3). Because of the 1" zone around the enemy model, the access point can now accommodate a maximum of six 25mm bases.

Now let's say that the transport has ten 25mm bases embarked on it, and the passengers are called upon to disembark. The enemy model, and his 1" zone, prevents all ten passengers from disembarking normally. Thus, they cannot disembark "because of" the enemy model, and are permitted to make an emergency disembarkation instead. They still have to stay 1" away from the enemy model blocking the access point, but they could, for instance, perform an emergency disembarkation out the opposite side of the vehicle.

[pigei]

Although not directly related to your last example, you convinced me.

To resume point 2:

units performing an emergency disembarkation must still be placed 1" away of enemy models.

[pigei]

Two last doubts:

About disembarking:
If I cannot place all my model in a valid position, even with an emergency disembarkation THEN the whole unit is lost. Is it correct?

About exploding vehicles:
If the vehicle explodes I have to place the passengers where the vehicle used to be. In doing so should I keep these models 1" away of enemy? And if so, what happens if I cannot respect this rule?

[mathhammer]

Two last doubts:

About disembarking:
If I cannot place all my model in a valid position, even with an emergency disembarkation THEN the whole unit is lost. Is it correct?

About exploding vehicles:
If the vehicle explodes I have to place the passengers where the vehicle used to be. In doing so should I keep these models 1" away of enemy? And if so, what happens if I cannot respect this rule?

1, Yes if but just one model in the unit cannot disembark the whole unit is dead.
2. In this case your NOT disembarking so you place all the models on the table you can without violating the 1" rule and the additional models are removed from play.

Example, A rhino is 3" by 5" and it is surrounded in bases 2 base by gaunts. Then on a result of 6 you would get to place exactly 3 models, the rest of the squad is then removed from play.

[pigei]

Are you sure about exploding transports?

Because the general rule about the 1" is related to moving units. In this case the models are not moving at all (they were already there actually).

Moreover why removing only the models that are not able to fit there and not the whole unit as in the destroyed case?

[mathhammer]

yes because the 1" inch rule is about placing models,

yes on the destroyed result because it is not disembarkation which what the 5 result is.