40K End Times (Plastic Horus Heresy)

[deinol]

I'm cool if they take a massive 40k break. That being said from a corporate prospective I think this year's releases will track with how well AoS is received at large. If it is a big success I expect them to follow it up with more AoS releases, if it debuts a little soft I suspect they have some high value 40k releases they can use to prop up the bottom line and satisfy investors.

I'm ok with the break, just want to know when I should start paying attention to things.

I really doubt they'll change the release schedule last minute to "prop up the bottom line". It takes months to spin up production on a new kit. But I wouldn't be surprised if they have a big 40k push Nov/Dec already planned.

I'm unlikely to get caught up in any new releases anyway unless they plan to update IG, which I doubt will be this year.

[XionXxen]

More money for little plastic men, *sigh* :)

[Erik Setzer]

I really doubt they'll change the release schedule last minute to "prop up the bottom line"

If something's already done, they can and will do it. And if it's a release that doesn't need models to back it, even easier. Modern printing can be done ridiculously fast.

[deinol]

If something's already done, they can and will do it. And if it's a release that doesn't need models to back it, even easier. Modern printing can be done ridiculously fast.

Yes, books can be spun up fairly quickly. But other than the core book, I don't think codexes are big money makers. Maybe Space Marines, but I doubt we'll see them (again) in December.

I was referring to models, which I believe is still the bulk of GW's revenue. Takes longer to spin up production on plastic kits than books.

[Erik Setzer]

Yes, books can be spun up fairly quickly. But other than the core book, I don't think codexes are big money makers. Maybe Space Marines, but I doubt we'll see them (again) in December.

I was referring to models, which I believe is still the bulk of GW's revenue. Takes longer to spin up production on plastic kits than books.

Well, if the mold is done and ready to go, things can be changed. Flexibility is important to have in a business. And we've seen molds are sometimes made well in advance of a model being sold. It does carry a bit of cost with it, but if you think something will contribute more profit, you eat that cost and make the change.

And since they don't announce their release schedule ahead of time, it's not like anyone will ever know. The rumor mongers have been kind of all over the place for this year.

[deinol]

Well, if the mold is done and ready to go, things can be changed. Flexibility is important to have in a business. And we've seen molds are sometimes made well in advance of a model being sold. It does carry a bit of cost with it, but if you think something will contribute more profit, you eat that cost and make the change.

And since they don't announce their release schedule ahead of time, it's not like anyone will ever know. The rumor mongers have been kind of all over the place for this year.

True. Also, they have one other easy way to drive X-mas sales (which they've done the last two years at least) is make those big bundle boxes. Repackage several kits with a discount. That's how I ended up with Storm Wing and Ghost Warrior detachments. Now that I think about it, I should really wait on getting any Skitarii until then to see what boxes they release end of the year.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

Just got some info from a usually fairly reliable source, and to be honest I'm not sure if it supports this rumour or not, but here goes.

As of November, Forgeworld in stores.

Sadly, no info beyond that, so could mean a number of things...

1 Available to order into stores - so free shipping
2 Actual stock in stores
3 The plastic set isn't plastic
4 actual stock in stores to support the plastic set

Wish I could offer more info, but sadly can only work with the info I've got.

[Denzark]

There are now pictures purporting to be mk v on other sites...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Waaagh Studios on Facebook has spoiled the sprues, they are all MK 4 Marines so far.

https://www.facebook.com/TheWAAAGHStudios/photos/pb.230660630354206.-2207520000.1437949764./862628260490770/?type=1

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Cheers mon.

[YorkNecromancer]

Oh.

My.

God.

OHMIGODTHEY'REREAL

OHMIGODYOUGUYSTHEY'REREALTHEY'REREALLYREALLYREAL

OHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODO HMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOH MIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHM IGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMI GODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIG ODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGO DOHMIGODOHMIGOD

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Wow, cool - this year has been so exciting for GW as far as I'm concerned, glad to see this rumour seems to be true - guess the proof is in the plasticrack :P

[Chris*ta]

Oh.

My.

God.

OHMIGODTHEY'REREAL

OHMIGODYOUGUYSTHEY'REREALTHEY'REREALLYREALLYREAL

OHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODO HMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOH MIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHM IGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMI GODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIG ODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGO DOHMIGODOHMIGOD

I believe Yorkie speaks for all of us.

[Houghten]

why did i check bols right before bed

why

now i won't be able to sleep

[Lexington]

Those are pretty damn nice is what they are.

[rallyfox]

I'll second that comment

[Alaric]

Never been so happy to be wrong. Heres to hoping for the rest of the marks.

[Mr Mystery]

There goes someone's job...

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

Mr Mystery predicts we might see a new Chaos Space Marine Codex to help cash in as well...

Not a rumour, just speculation.

Not a rumour. Remember that.

https://i.imgflip.com/oq3d7.jpg

[grimmas]

To late late Mystery it's a rumour now and it's all your fault 😝

Those mark IVs look like multi part plastics to me should work very well with the existing FW legion upgrade packs and gives scope to produce Mk V stuff. Also gives me hope they'll be in their own box set and not just a starter set/stand alone game

[Mr Mystery]

Hmm.

Could be part of a Battallion type set? Double up on the Mk IV sprues, add in one or two we've not seen?

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

If they were part of a starter set I'd imagine they'd be more simplified so probably more likely their own boxset. Hope they do Cataphrachti terminators - i won't be able to resist that...

[grimmas]

The first of the pictures Barcode posted looks like Cataphrachti, although they do appear to be fixed pose in the usual GW starter set style. Although they do have previous for releasing more involved kits of units in the starter sets later on.

[Kirsten]

looking at the first pic with the cataphractii armour, there is one terminator and one power armour dude on it. my guess would be a character sprue. that is why they have limited poses, they are like the clampack characters, not part of a boxed set of five.

so so so so so so so so so so so so so very excited.

[Psychosplodge]

Oh.

My.

God.

OHMIGODTHEY'REREAL

OHMIGODYOUGUYSTHEY'REREALTHEY'REREALLYREALLYREAL

OHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODO HMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOH MIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHM IGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMI GODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIG ODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGODOHMIGO DOHMIGODOHMIGOD

^this, so much this.

[Comoran]

We'll see :)

[Mr Mystery]

Just realised....many of the Power Armour upgrade kits from Forgeworld have been MkIV recently...far more than MkII and MkIII (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Home/Search-Results.html)

Coincidence? Probs not :)

[Psychosplodge]

your link points at nothing.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That would be a Praetor in Cataphractii armour and a Chaplain Consul.

[Mr Mystery]

your link points at nothing.

Bah! Should link to a completed search with 'Mk IV' as the parameters.

Oh well. Just have to search it yourself!

[Psychosplodge]

assumed that was what it was though

[Kirsten]

I think the upgrade sets are more about what works for certain legions, than about plastics.

nice lot of weapons on those sprues, missile launcher, heavy bolter, flamer, plasma gun, melta gun, combi weapons, power weapon, lightning claw...

very impressive.

[Psychosplodge]

They're not going to work with the FW bolters though :(

[Kirsten]

well it could be done. and they come with what look to me like tigrus pattern bolters. I am sure if they do other marks there will be phobos and umbra patterns too.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The question I now face myself with is... What legion...?

[Psychosplodge]

All of them?

The survivor force Yorkie (I think it was him) mentioned looks slightly more viable with plastics to build on.

[Kirsten]

I am narrowing it down by just doing all of them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Nice. xD

The only Legion in the Shattered Legion that I like are the Raven Guard. Hahaa.


For me it boils down to:
Thousand Sons (need upgrade packs to be viable)
Raven Guard (dull colour scheme)
Sons of Horus
Word Bearers
Imperial Fists (if I can be arsed doing a second yellow army)
Alpha Legion

I would have said Night Lords, but there are already 2-3 Heresy Night Lords players. There are also 1 Iron Warriors, 1 Blood Angels, 1 Ultramarines, 1 Salamanders, and 1 Iron Hands players.

[Kirsten]

well I have Night Lords already, Iron Hands, World Eaters and Raven Guard next. after that probably Emperor's Children and Salamanders, then I will start on my Istvaan V board...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Which will look sexy.

[Kirsten]

yes it will

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Word Bearers are calling to me, they haven't had a poor model out, their background is cool. I think I do too many clean, "good" armies. Maybe an army of the FILTHIEST heretics would be a refreshing change.

[Mr Mystery]

Speculation about whether this is a Ltd Release, a Starter Box etc.

From the sprues, it looks to be in the same broad vein as Stormclaw in terms of contents - couple of unique characters only available in the set, then 'regular production' sprues for the rest.

This makes me suspect that we will indeed be getting MkIV plastic boxed sets in the near future :)

[Kirsten]

well the Mk IV sprues are laid out very much like the tactical squad set, they look like a normal box release.

[Filthy Casual]

I suspect we'll just get Mk IV basic Astartes and a basic Contemptor (heavy bolter powerfist maybe?) in plastic for now with everything else through Forgeworld with the characters as an exclusive part of a starter set perhaps?

[Psychosplodge]

If the FW in stores rumours are accurate, then it could be the accessories you'd use to customise this box?

[Kirsten]

putting legion upgrade packs in stores would make sense to go with generic plastic legion marines.

[YorkNecromancer]

All of them?

The survivor force Yorkie (I think it was him) mentioned looks slightly more viable with plastics to build on.

I did mention those (round Xmas) and you better believe, that's what I'm doing. Istvaan massacre survivor force: loyalist Iron Warriors + Iron Hands vs traitor World Eaters + Emperor's Children FTW!

Seriously, there's no reason to limit yourself to just one Legion...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/706/062/9ac.jpg

[Kirsten]

I did mention those (round Xmas) and you better believe, that's what I'm doing. Istvaan massacre survivor force: loyalist Iron Warriors + Iron Hands vs traitor World Eaters + Emperor's Children FTW!

Seriously, there's no reason to limit yourself to just one Legion...

yup, I planned a force with raven guard line troopers, a couple of Iron Hands breachers, a Salamanders Pyroclast, an Emperor's Children Palatine Blade, lead by a Raven Guard sniper

[Mr Mystery]

Hmmm....further speculation.....

I seem to recall the next FW book will contain Blood Angels, Dark Angels and White Scars, and indeed we've already seen Blood Angel and White Scar upgrade/conversion kits.

If I'm thinking straight (never guaranteed) that would leave just Space Woofs and Thousand Sons not yet covered.....

And with recent releases from FW being largely MkIV upgrade/conversion packs, and larger models not actually covered by any books (Samus, Bogeybum etc), we might see Book VI fairly soon...

It could be said to be pointing to an effort to cover the majority of Legions before making them available in store?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The only limitation is money, which is a very dwindling resource. xD

I think I'll just do Word Bearers for now, then maybe get a loyalist force later.

[Kirsten]

well mk IV was the armour in use at the time of the books so far, with certain legions like Iron Hands using a lot of Mk III for example. The Imperial Fists Brethren set is Mk III for example, so I wouldn't read too much in to that.

They did say that book six would be out pretty quickly though.

[Psychosplodge]

The only limitation is money,
.

Along with time, space, and motivation to actually paint. :(

[Cutter]

This notional box set would likely be a couple of tac squads and a couple of characters to enable Spy v Spy action? Probably don't need to spend another 75 quid on another 20 odd marines. It is nice to see the Emperor's own missile launcher back in plastic though :-).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Eh, I make time.

[Mr Mystery]

On the subject of munneh....

Promotion? Check
Car Fixed? Check
Overtime at double pay on offer at work again? Check

It's as if the Retail Gods want me to own all the things!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Holiday - Half way paid
Spending money for holiday - Nope
New computer - Not even tried
Music software - No computer no point
Guitar - Nope
Keyboard - Nope
Age of Sigmar army - Looks fabulous

Screw you Age of Sigmar!

I need to have my Holiday done by October at the latest, spending money shall be generated over the months leading up to it. I want a grand, maybe a grand and a half.
I should be able to squeeze in the teensiest bit of Heresy.

And I really would like to start off music producing... I would rather 'spoons wasn't my career. I want to create things.

[completeHook]

15216

There are a few things that look just not quite right about these sprues.

Firstly there are 11 backs and 11 fronts, and as all the fronts bar one look to be identical so why the extra back?

Which go with 8 identical backpacks...


In general there is a lot of dead space and it is very regular which isn't how Games Workshop make their sprues. The junction marked I.) just doesn't look right, all that extra plastic isn't supporting anything. Although it is difficult to tell with low quality photos II.) looks a bit like it has been pulled about a bit too much in Photoshop. Also III.) the transverse plume has a softer edge than and the helmet it is attached to.

Compare this with any of the recent releases, the lack of variations in detailing, the inefficiency of the use of space, the lack of options, it just doesn't feel to me anyway like the genuine article.

[Psychosplodge]

where you going?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Florida. With my best friend and some other friends.

[Mr Mystery]

11 Man Sprues.

Under Heresy rules, most squads can go up to 20.

Sprues include parts for a Sarge normally, completing the 10 man squad (as Sarge is compulsory).

This one does that, and leaves you with an additional marine. Also explains the torso bits and bobs - Sarge is always fancier, and Heresy stuff does tend to be plainer, because it was still mass produced at that time.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

We also haven't seen the entire contents of whatever this is. There may be more stuff to round it up to an even number.

[Psychosplodge]

@ tda cool or more likely hot.

TBH I prefer the plainer look of the sprues than the current ranges that have too much ostentation on them.

[completeHook]

But the one torso front with the extra detail is still a MKIV front, so it should go onto one of the generic backs, but again difficult to tell. If it was a different MK that would be one thing but that extra back should really be a front.

It is perfectly true that you don't know what else is in the kit, but from the two sprues pictured the third would have arms, bolters and more legs and the remainder of the backpacks.

I enlarged and annotated the image from the article from the article on the front page and it's more what look to me like Photoshop mistakes that got me thinking that this might not be the real thing.

I would love HH stuff in plastic but something is off with those images.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm happy they're legit.

If they're a mock-up for a hoax, they're an elaborate one - the sprues even feature part numbers! The legs? Just double up the sprue and you're there, wouldn't take a second sprue.

[Thor Summer]

Holiday - Half way paid
Spending money for holiday - Nope
New computer - Not even tried
Music software - No computer no point
Guitar - Nope
Keyboard - Nope
Age of Sigmar army - Looks fabulous

Screw you Age of Sigmar!

I need to have my Holiday done by October at the latest, spending money shall be generated over the months leading up to it. I want a grand, maybe a grand and a half.
I should be able to squeeze in the teensiest bit of Heresy.

And I really would like to start off music producing... I would rather 'spoons wasn't my career. I want to create things.

I PM'd you about cheap(er) ways to get making music. If you're interested, give it a read. I can also point you in the direction of certain free things.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

this certainly makes the heresy more accessible and affordable for those of us that aren't rich. Can go with the GW kits for the bulk and fill out the elites with the legion specific stuff from FW. I would most definietly go with Iron Hands myself as they are basicly a bunch of cyberpunk rivetheads anyway!


TDA - If you need any advice about music making or production, I'm always happy to explain things and help. My production isn't limited to just industrial and hard dance music but other forms of electronic music and even acoustic stuff.

[Kirsten]

the fact that there are 11 torsos is not a sign of anything. maybe one of the heavy weapons uses a different torso, maybe it is just for variety or for a sergeant. it is way too high quality to be a hoax, it would take so much effort you might as well actually make it. look at picture number five posted by Barcode, the top left torso front has more detail on the front than the others, could easily be an optional sergeant torso. the sprue layout isn't unusual, like I said earlier, compare it to a tactical squad sprue, much the same. as for most parts being identical, that is because they are all Mk IV armour. all the backpacks are identical on forge world marine sets. the photo is too dark round the helmet plume to know what the quality is like.

[completeHook]

It is the difference between the hardness of the edges between the plume and the helmet that doesn't look right to me.

It is the pixels around the edges of the objects that to my eye don't seem to match, which is a fairly common problem people encounter when trying to blend elements into pictures. If you look at area III. with the picture at full resolution you may be able to see it, maybe not. After all, dark low res photo taken close up on a camera phone with all the lens distortion and noise that goes with it.

It was the pictures initial post on the the front page that just didn't quite look right, I have tried to show my workings and if any better pictures have surfaced that's brilliant, because plastic HH!

[Kirsten]

I just don't see what you are seeing to be honest

[Filthy Casual]

There is significant artifacting but this could just be from sharing what started out as a poor quality photograph and only gotten worse.

It could be faked, it would take a significant amount of work. I'd be interested in the metadata of the original pictures.

[Mr Mystery]

Doesn't help the photos are in my patented crap-o-vision technique!

There's a lot of effort gone in these are indeed a hoax. Too much to make it worth it. Missile Launcher alone convinces me of that.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

@ tda cool or more likely hot.

Yeah man

[40kGamer]

These look awesome. If they prove to be a hoax we need to find the source and censure it. :p

[Mr Mystery]

I really, really hope we see plastic Masturbikes (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Legiones_Astartes/Space_Marine_Legion_Army_List/Legion_Fast_Attack/Legion_Jetbike_Sky_Hunter_Squadron/LEGION_SCIMITAR_PATTERN_JETBIKE_SQUADRON.html)

[40kGamer]

Those would definitely be nice to have in plastic!

[Kirsten]

nooo, those bikes suck. we need the White Scars jet bikes in plastic, Bullock pattern, not Scimitar pattern

[Mr Mystery]

No way, buttmunch!

And be careful what you wish for, lest we wind up with the frankly laughable Crapterhouse JetVespas.

[Kirsten]

scimitars are dreadful

[Mr Mystery]

I really like them!

I know there's serious phallic nonsense going on, but I love the Art Deco overtures.

[Kirsten]

ribbed for her pleasure, not yours.

they are dreadful, too large, too silly. the only way they would work would be if you put for very thin wheels on them, a small wind screen, and gave the pilot a scarf and goggles. then made an old fashioned racing game.

15231

also if we do get plastic scimitars that is my idea and nobody can steal it.

[Bigred]

Regarding plastic Horus Heresy:

via 75Hastings69 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412055-Heresy-plastics/page3) 7-27-2015

Regarding Boxed Set:

It's not REALLY a starter set, it's a standalone game, from which the models will be available from at a later date. The execution force assassin models weren't snap fit either.

Regarding Horus Heresy & 40K rules in the future:


...I'll share what I have heard, but this dates back a while as I pay very little interest to GW now.

I heard that 30k HH would be a boxed standalone game (like execution force was) and that the plastics contained within it would go on to form part of a larger 30k range and would be released some time later as individual box sets/clampacks, I was told that rules would be in those boxes, but that some boxes would contain rules for 30k AND 40k (and these boxes have BOTH logos on - yes there is a new 30k logo) so I assume it will be using a different ruleset to 40k (as there would be no point having rules for both systems in boxes if they were both the same). I was also told the plastic assassins would get clampack releases later and be released as part of the main 40k range..... as the box set is pretty much still quite widely available I don't expect this to be soon, although I never had a timeframe in the first case.

As for your AoS style rule reboot question - I remember being told to expect 40k codexes (codices?) to be a thing of the past within 2 years, and that the rules would be in the box for each model/unit, but there would still be a core ruleset which the in box rules would obviously add to. I've not bought any AoS releases (nor do I intend to) so I don't know if they have rules in the boxes (seems daft as when rules got FAQ'd (lol) or changed they'd need to repack ALL the boxes - seems even dafter that anything would actually bother with rules for AoS!!) or just online? I am going to leap to the conclusion that 40k probably WILL become more simplified like AoS, mainly because GW no longer see themselves as rules/games writers but just model sellers. How much more simplified I wouldn't hazard a guess at. Whatever they decide to do you can bet it's in the pipeline already, because myself and Harry were privately discussing the changes to WFB almost 3 years ago - I was told it was being canned and whilst we thought that was not the case and that AoS would be a continuation or refresh of it WFB HAS actually been canned and REPLACED by AoS, so these things are planned well ahead.

FW make huge sales from HH, there was no way that GW weren't going to want in on the action! I expect FW to still produce the big kits/characters/customising kits but GW will provide the bulk of the models needed to play 30k. We can only hope that GW let FW handle the 30k rules/books and they just make the models for it. But keep in mind I was told that when the 30k RANGE hits the stores (not the standalone box game but the actual range) it will take over the store space that used to be taken up by LotR/Hobbit, so GW may want to keep tight hold of the reigns even though they are no longer committed to producing games?

...Having thought about this I think the unit/model rules for 30k & 40k will be online/WD rather than actually inside the box kits (I may have misinterpreted what my source said).

Also I should point out that as I understand it 40k and 30k will be very different games/rulesets, so it may be that 40k becomes like AoS and 30k is handled by FW (although this is just wishful thinking on the behalf of hobbyists the world over!).

Of course I may be completely wrong...... because that happens a lot :)

[Kirsten]

ditching warhammer is understandable given poor sales, but hard to see big changes like that for 40k. if it ain't broke...

[Filthy Casual]

scimitars are dreadful

You're crazy, they're cool as hell.

[Sanguinary Dan]

If these guys are real it just might get me back into the 40K universe. Maybe.

[YorkNecromancer]

You're crazy, they're cool as hell.

They are cool... But the first time my gf walked in the room while I was looking at them, her immediate response was: "Why are you looking at Lovehoney?"

She wasn't even joking; she honestly thought I was looking at plastic dongs.

[Alaric]

ditching warhammer is understandable given poor sales, but hard to see big changes like that for 40k. if it ain't broke...

If it aint broke then break it. Thats the gw way!


Now that I have seen the sprues im so on board for this! Just in time for when FW prices are 2:1 vs. my currency. Now...how much do blond haired blue eyed 2 year Olds go for...will it be enough for 4k points, lets hope.

[Kirsten]

well it strikes me more as speculation. if you look at the rationale given for Age of Sigmar by GW staff, poor sales, overly complex rules, high model count, 40k has none of those things.

[spiralingcadaver]

poor sales, overly complex rules, high model count, 40k has none of those
Declining sales (mostly bolstered by price hikes).
Overly complex rules compared to the amount of mileage you actually get from them. (40k could be intensely streamlined and standardized without losing a ton when looking at other systems, IMHO of course.)
High model count compared to any other sci-fi line, even before taking into account armies that don't use power armor.


...Not saying it has the same degree of problem as WHFB by any stretch of the imagination, but saying those problems aren't there are definite parallels there. I've always thought 40k could have been done a lot better, but seeing AoS, "the devil you know," and all that.

[Mr Mystery]

ribbed, because you need all the help you can get mate

Fix'd for truth!

[Kirsten]

Declining sales (mostly bolstered by price hikes).
Overly complex rules compared to the amount of mileage you actually get from them. (40k could be intensely streamlined and standardized without losing a ton when looking at other systems, IMHO of course.)
High model count compared to any other sci-fi line, even before taking into account armies that don't use power armor.

millions of pounds of profit a year

simple rules

as few or as many models as you like.

there is very little justification for a new game like there was with fantasy.

[Mr Mystery]

The declining sales thing is a tricky one to nail down....

That GW sales have had a decline is obvious - their published and independently verified annual and 6 month reports confirm this.

Exactly where those declines are? Well, nobody outside of GW knows, because they don't publish those, as they're not obliged to.

40k itself could be going good guns for all we know, and all the declines instead linked to Warhammer. We just don't know - and anyone who claims they do is talking mince, on account they have no access to anything like enough info to make that determination. No, not even if you wear a silly plastic mask and claim to have hacked GW.

[Kirsten]

financials are looking good, profit increase, modest increase in core sales. other products going down, likely to be fantasy and the hobbit stuff.

rumours of separate 30k and 40k rules are strange, it is hard to see what the point of that would be. 30k would have to stay with the current 40k rules given the quality Forge World heresy books really.

[Path Walker]

financials are looking good, profit increase, modest increase in core sales. other products going down, likely to be fantasy and the hobbit stuff.

rumours of separate 30k and 40k rules are strange, it is hard to see what the point of that would be. 30k would have to stay with the current 40k rules given the quality Forge World heresy books really.

They could make a new Heresy Game, different from the Forge World one, but with models that cross over.

[Kirsten]

could be, that seems unnecessarily complex :p

though actually if it is initially a stand alone game like the assassins, that could explain where these rules rumours are coming from

[Path Walker]

My inner troll hopes they do Horus Heresy with 4 pages of rules and no point values.

[Kirsten]

bad troll

[Mr Mystery]

Funny troll though!

[Kirsten]

a stand alone game could be fun, it could even represent something like the post dropsite massacre evacuation, small squads on each side, set scenarios.

[grimmas]

May be 40K will go to 4 pg rules and 30K will stay the with the same/similar rules as now and be aimed at older players, FW is pretty much "cool sh*t for veterans" after all. Well I hope so I've spent rather slot on the HH source books and would like to finish the set at least.

[Kirsten]

yeah I wouldn't necessarily be against it, I just don't know if I see it happening.

[Path Walker]

May be 40K will go to 4 pg rules and 30K will stay the with the same/similar rules as now and be aimed at older players, FW is pretty much "cool sh*t for veterans" after all. Well I hope so I've spent rather slot on the HH source books and would like to finish the set at least.

That would be the more likely route yeah. I just want to watch the internet rage. I've loved AoS for the laughs its given me almost as much as I've enjoyed playing the game

[grimmas]

Yes it did seem to tip a few people over the edge.

[Mr Mystery]

Yes it did seem to tip a few people over the edge.

I think most of them had just bungeed back up from the other side of the edge....

[Filthy Casual]

There was a week or so when every day bought a new level of ridiculousness, I was very happy.

[Bigred]

Horus Heresy Boxed Game Summary


The Game is real, and is already into production.

Ship date is listed as Q4, November, to hit right at the height of the holiday shopping season.

Like "Execution Force" the initial boxed set is a fully standalone game, with no further purchases necessary.

Sprues shown so far confirm posable Mk. IV Maximus armor, marines (in sets of 10 per pair of sprues).

Sprues shown so far confirm 2 command figures with a Power Armor and Cataphractii Terminator models.

This boxed Game will serve as the introductory product to an entire Horus Heresy product line that will become GW's new "3rd Line", alongside Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40,000.

An entire line of plastic kits is coming, that will appear on normal store shelves with Horus Heresy line badging (and 40k as well in some cases)

Ruleswise, the Horus Heresy will be a "40K light" ruleset sitting at the middleground between 40k and Age of Sigmar

Horus Heresy plastic kits will contain both 30K and 40K rules in the box.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This is why I pick dirty traitors, so that I can use them in 40k too! Multipurpose!

[Mr Mystery]

Horus Heresy Boxed Game Summary

Sauce?

[Erik Setzer]

Florida. With my best friend and some other friends.

I hope for your sake it's not any time soon. Florida summers are ridiculous, we've got heat and humidity every day with rain covering half the state on a constant basis and the only question being "Which half will be hit today?" Fall, spring, winter, it's nice, really pleasant. But summer is a mess.

- - - Updated - - -


financials are looking good, profit increase, modest increase in core sales. other products going down, likely to be fantasy and the hobbit stuff.

rumours of separate 30k and 40k rules are strange, it is hard to see what the point of that would be. 30k would have to stay with the current 40k rules given the quality Forge World heresy books really.

Actually, the profit increase was mainly due to them not spending a ridiculous amount on a new website this year (and it's still amazing it took them so long to move Forge World to that platform). They're also bringing in more money from licensed products.

I don't really buy these rumors, but it's possible the recent rash of 40K releases didn't have the effect GW wanted, and sales aren't as good as people thought. There's people like me who might like the AdMech stuff a lot, but just can't afford to consider it, because a force big enough to play with is still hundreds of dollars, on top of $66 of books. But eh, it's all conjecture.

I hope the HH stuff works out and they don't muck with the 40K or HH rules. And if this is all successful, we can move to Mark III maybe, so my Iron Warriors get armor that matches what I feel they should look like.

[legiocustodes]

Sauce?

Ketchup

[Mr Mystery]

Acceptable answers were HP Sauce, or Frank's Red Hot Sauce.

Minus twlefty internets :p

[legiocustodes]

Oooh! I like HP Sauce, but it gives me heartburn!! Not as much heartburn as AoS though!

[Psychosplodge]

Ketchup

There's only one sauce worth its... well... sauce

http://i.imgur.com/4JYtwE2.jpg

[Mr Mystery]

Silly Yorkshire types.

You know they're not allowed to export that away from t'mines.

[YorkNecromancer]

There's only one sauce worth its... well... sauce

http://i.imgur.com/4JYtwE2.jpg

YES! Good man!


Silly Yorkshire types.

You know they're not allowed to export that away from t'mines.

That's only because awesome is dangerously volatile.

[Thaldin]

But that's not relish... I'm so confused... Relish is chopped up sweet pickles!

[YorkNecromancer]

Henderson's relish is a GIFT FROM AN OTHERWISE UNCARING UNIVERSE made ENTIRELY FROM MAGIC AND HARD GRAFT AND IT IS ABSOLUTELY A RELISH!!!

THIS WILL BE THE END OF THE DISCUSSION!!!

[Mr Mystery]

Something just occurred to me...

The Cataphractii armoured character is packing a Chainfist....that's an odd choice of weapon for a starter set, unless of course there is something with an armour value in there with them.....

Mayhap the earlier rumour of a plastic Contempor was on to something?

[Path Walker]

Something just occurred to me...

The Cataphractii armoured character is packing a Chainfist....that's an odd choice of weapon for a starter set, unless of course there is something with an armour value in there with them.....

Mayhap the earlier rumour of a plastic Contempor was on to something?

plastic zone mortalis with bulkheads?

[Mr Mystery]

Possible - but I'm not getting a Space Hulky type vibe from the other sprues.

At least, not the ones we've seen.

[Path Walker]

More wishful thinking than anything else, loves me some ZM and would love more people to play it

[Erik Setzer]

Something just occurred to me...

The Cataphractii armoured character is packing a Chainfist....that's an odd choice of weapon for a starter set, unless of course there is something with an armour value in there with them.....

Mayhap the earlier rumour of a plastic Contempor was on to something?

You're thinking from a rules position. Games Workshop just spent an entire annual report trying to make everyone forget they make games. From a miniature perspective, a chainfist looks cool. Therefore, a chainfist makes sense even without a vehicle in the kit.

[Al Shut]

Who knows what a chainfist might do in a simplified ruleset.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The enemy mainly

[Bigred]

Today's Horus Heresy Boxed Set Rumors

via Warseer's Apologist (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412928-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015-Mk-II&p=7523593&viewfull=1#post7523593) 8-20-2015


"Can't remember where it was in the old thread (or possibly another forum), but I believe it's been rumoured that the box is themed around Phall, with Imperial Fists versus Iron Warriors.
I'll see if I can dig out a link to where I saw that.
....
It is noted that the forces are asymmetrical; themed around a boarding party and defenders."

Then Apologist links over to ...

Via DakkaDakka's Whisper of Truth (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/780/637550.page#8027110)


... Also the contents rumours are slightly wrong. The forces aren't an exact mirror of one another. One force is a Pride of the Legion style force. Some might even call it a boarding party... The other is based off normal Tac. Marines.

As for the ship name, I don't think the game is based on this particular ship, but I'd go with the "Tribune." Or one of the other warships in that warzone anyway.

I'mageek writes:


"Imperial Fists, if it is set at Phall."


WhisperofTruth responds:
"Ding ding, we have a winner.

If I remember rightly the box has around 44 models. Including 3 Mk4 boxes, terminators, cataphracti and the two characters."

So to Summarize:

Horus Heresy Starter Box

- Imperial Fists vs Iron Warriors

- Battle of Phall

- Asymetrical sides

- "Boarding style" theme - (Battle of Phall was a major fleet action in deep space)

- 44 models

3 Mk IV "boxes" (sprues already seen)

Terminators

Cataphractii

Two Characters (sprues already seen)

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/b/b1/Shadows_of_treachery_cover_clean.jpg

[Erik Setzer]

OMFG YES YES YES YES YES YES YESSSSSSSS....

Iron Warriors! WOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!

Yeah, sorry, as an IW player, this pleases me. And if there's some of the breach squad guys, even if I have to replace shoulder pads, I will love it, because those are the guys I've been wanting to use for my Troops squads.

[Mr Mystery]

It does fit with the otherwise slightly odd Combimelta and Chainfist combo on the Cataphractii we've seen.....but I await corroboration. I've got a sneaking suspicion this may be conjecture rather than rumour.

[Brakkart]

As an Imperial Fists player this rumour makes me very happy indeed. I do hope it's true.

[Haighus]

I really hope that rumour IS true, as someone who has recently begun building an IF Company specialising in boarding missions (Terminators, Breacher squads and Dreadnoughts aplenty...)

[YorkNecromancer]

This pleases me. Imperial Fists are the perfect choice of 'default' Marine Legion. They take standard bolters and chainswords and make them awesome. Yellow looks so good when weathered properly.

And Heresy-era Iron Warriors > 40K-era Iron Warriors.

They're just so much bleaker than any other Legion; taken for granted by every other Legion, treated with contempt by their Primarch... They don't even fall to Chaos so much as turn from the Emperor into absolute nihilistic despair. The only reason they feel hate is because it's the only thing that can cover over the fact there's nothing left inside them at all.

[Kirsten]

ooooh

[Haighus]

This pleases me. Imperial Fists are the perfect choice of 'default' Marine Legion. They take standard bolters and chainswords and make them awesome. Yellow looks so good when weathered properly.
I would agree with this :) Aside from their speciality in Zones Mortalis, they are very much the ideal of the Crusade.


And Heresy-era Iron Warriors > 40K-era Iron Warriors.

They're just so much bleaker than any other Legion;
Death Guard are similar too.

taken for granted by every other Legion, treated with contempt by their Primarch... They don't even fall to Chaos so much as turn from the Emperor into absolute nihilistic despair. The only reason they feel hate is because it's the only thing that can cover over the fact there's nothing left inside them at all.

I find the few examples of loyalist Iron Warriors very interesting, because they are much more like the pre-Perturabo Iron Warriors- grim and to the point, and aware that they get the worse jobs of the Crusade, but a sort of dour pride in the fact that what they do is necessary for the Emperor's work, and for that they don't need the glory. Also still the hate, hate at the betrayal of their brothers, although I think that is shared by all loyalists.

[YorkNecromancer]

I find the few examples of loyalist Iron Warriors very interesting, because they are much more like the pre-Perturabo Iron Warriors- grim and to the point, and aware that they get the worse jobs of the Crusade, but a sort of dour pride in the fact that what they do is necessary for the Emperor's work, and for that they don't need the glory. Also still the hate, hate at the betrayal of their brothers, although I think that is shared by all loyalists.


Loyalist Iron Warriors are amazing, because their 'hat' (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats) is that they are incapable of caring about anything. They're not Chaotic, but they are still a pack of war crime committing monsters. Like, Kyr Vhalen gets told 'New orders: we're rebelling against the Emperor' and his entire response is 'No'. Doesn't even bother finding out why, just says 'No' and then starts killing Iron Warriors because that's just how it works. No pride, no glory, none of that horrible bravado, where everyone pretends they're some kind of hero even though they're bathed up to the elbows in murder. There's none of that with the Iron Warriors because they don't need to stroke their egos and tell themselves they're doing the right thing. They genuinely don't care about doing the right thing or not. They just kill people because that's what they were designed to do, and morality or motivations don't enter into it.

There's no such thing as a heroic Iron Warrior, just one who's better at killing than the others.

Way more interesting than the modern 'standard bwahahahahaha villain' incarnation.

[Brakkart]

Yeah despite being an IF fan through and through one of my favourite Heresy era characters is the loyalist Warsmith Barabas Dantioch, both for his tactical genius and the sheer utter contempt he holds his traitor brothers and his own Primarch in for being too weak to be loyal, for allowing petty emotions to get the better of them. Bloody brilliant character.

[Kirsten]

don't forget that the Iron Warriors felt under appreciated and taken for granted by the Emperor, whereas Horus absolutely needed them to have any chance of defeating the Emperor on Terra. being wanted is a powerful motivator.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeedy.

Had Perturabo not turned, the Heresy would have fallen flat on it's face. Dunno about anyone else, but I really wouldn't like to try and besiege a fortress designed by Rogal Dorn and Perturabo, and manned by both their Legions.

No. Thank. You.

Though it does make me wonder what happened to the IW garrisons and similar groups who remained loyal after the Heresy...

[Kirsten]

they set up a small galactic cupcake company

[Mr Mystery]

Tasty within, tasty without?

[Kirsten]

don't be silly. Jam within, Sprinkles without.

[Mr Mystery]

And they would be the most technically perfect Cupcakes evar.

[Kirsten]

there is nowhere they can't enter to deliver them to.

[Mr Mystery]

Especially if you didn't even order them?

[Kirsten]

they will breach your hab block/hive/fortress and deliver cake rounds from their specially modified bolters.

[Mr Mystery]

Tasty!

Now envisaging the troop compartments on Caestus converted into industrial sized ovens.

[Psychosplodge]

Drop pod cupcake delivery? but surely its buttercream within, sprinkles without? Where's this heretical notion of jam come from? is that the true cause of the heresy?

[Haighus]

Indeedy.

Had Perturabo not turned, the Heresy would have fallen flat on it's face. Dunno about anyone else, but I really wouldn't like to try and besiege a fortress designed by Rogal Dorn and Perturabo, and manned by both their Legions.

No. Thank. You.

Though it does make me wonder what happened to the IW garrisons and similar groups who remained loyal after the Heresy...

Hmmm the Iron Warriors were at the Dropsite Massacre though, so there may not have been much of the Legion left for most of the Heresy had they remained loyal. On the other hand, the Massacre could have gone quite differently with the Iron Warriors on the loyalist side.

As for loyalist Iron Warriors, the Minotaurs have a specialty in brutal siege assaults, have an ancient greek theme (like olympia...) and have dubious origins FW won't release...

[Bigred]

via Faeit (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-horus-heresy-30k-game-coming-soon.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29&utm_content=FeedBurner)8-21-2015

Plastic Horus Heresy Boxed Game Details

- Game similar to Space Hulk
- Released Around October
- Possibly Limited Run
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/horus-heresy-faction-icon.png

[Bigred]

Dueling rumormeisters chime in on 8-21-2015:

Lords of War (https://www.facebook.com/Lordsofwargaming?fref=nf)(facebook) comes out or retirement to say:


Oh, you think it's going to be Battle of Phall? How cute...

It will have it's own rules created by GW, but everyone will use for FW and they should. 30k is vastly better than 40k.

It will be two legions that hate each other. Any guesses?

Looks like we have a winner! (regarding Ultramarines and Word Bearers)

Dakka's Whispereroftruth (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/810/637550.page) says:


I sort of mentioned it before but the game will provide two legal armies out the box if you split with a friend, or one big one.

One built as Vets. and Cataphracti led by the Praetor. The other with two Tac. Squads as troops choices.

Any "tiles" or board included would be cardboard though. The idea of this new boxed game trend, yes trend there will be more, is based entirely on what made 3rd ed Space Hulk so successful. A bunch of models you can to your army and a "free" game included.

As for those asking if this is limited. Yes it is, the characters in the box specifically. Everything else will form part of a new range which is kicking off fully next year. There'll be 2-3 months of plastic 30k releases next year at the minimum. Mostly SM stuff, but more Mechanicum too. Most of the Mechanicum stuff that has been released already, you'll be able to use in 30k.

I initially heard the contents of the box would drop 6 months after it's general release. However, I'm beginning to think, in light of the recent AoS release, that we'll get a 2nd wave of Heresy stuff in 6 months, with the box contents dropping before then. That is purely speculation on my part though.

The box will contain it's own rules and Forge World will continue to write their own for now. Whether that will change as 40k changes is anyone's guess.


The line is being produced because of the huge success of the HH from both FW and BL. When the HH turns your two daughter companies into very profitable parts of your business even the stupid take note.

Purely conjecture, but considering there's another 40k box you all know about that'll kicking around for a while. I'm going to go with; "While stocks last" on this one.

[Psychosplodge]

They have stepped away from ultramarines before though, didn't they have Black Templers on one edition? And second had Bangels as the poster boys.

[Mr Mystery]

And it's been Dark Angels for the past two editions.

[Psychosplodge]

Dangels

:eek: That doesn't quite work as well.

[Mr Mystery]

It's why they were the long robes.

[Erik Setzer]

Meh, Smurfs. Not as interesting to me, but I can probably remove any identifying stuff. If they're smart, the models will be generic.

DAs have only gotten the last two editions because it was much cheaper to just swap the rulebook (and eventually update the box art) for the box that'd only been on the market two years, than it would be to develop a new box while pulling all the current ones off the shelf. If the set still works, why change it out? If we see 8th edition in another year or two, I think they might change it, but usually the boxes had a shelf life of 4-5 years.

[Bigred]

via anonymous sources 8-26-2015


Horus Heresy: Battle for Ultramar

Miniatures Contents:

44 miniatures

Artificier Armor Centurion
Mk IV Maximus Marine Squad (x10)
Mk IV Maximus Marine Squad (x10)
Mk IV Maximus Marine Squad (x10)

Cataphractii Terminator Praetor
Cataphractii Terminator Squad (x5)
Cataphractii Terminator Squad (x5)

Contemptor Dreadnought
Unknown model (conflicting reports say a "counter to Contemptor", or simply a 2nd Contemptor)

Decal sheet for multiple legions, split evenly between Loyalist and Traitor Legions

Rumors come from known rumormonger and are rated: likely

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I hope that is true, that is an awesome amount of stuff and of course you can paint it as one single army, making it even more tempting. Yeah, i couldn't resist heresy if this was true...

[Dalleron]

So I'm not up to speed on my HH unit options, but are all the reg marines all bolter equipped? I see some other fancy weapons, and a missile launcher. What about the termies?

Thanx in advance.

[Psychosplodge]

If the price is right I might have two boxes if that's the contents.

[spagunk]

I think this is really a good thing. It contains essentially a whole army or at least 2 separate armies as well as a game to play it with. Hopefully it is only 125-150 like all the other stand alone games because that's would be fantastic.

Not only that, but it gets you in the door for 30k play.

The only con is if the rumor on models is true (all mk IV armor), you're kind of stuck with one mark of armor. But since Mk IV is one of the better looking armor versions, this isn't so bad.

[Filthy Casual]

So I'm not up to speed on my HH unit options, but are all the reg marines all bolter equipped? I see some other fancy weapons, and a missile launcher. What about the termies?

Thanx in advance.

Astartes in Legion Tactical Squads all have Bolters, with Special Weapons and Heavy Weapons in Legion Support Squads but that's just the FW take on it, the rumours are suggesting this is not the same game as FWs Age of Darkness Horus Heresy era game and so will have a different rule-set and different squad layouts.

It would fit the XIII Legion though, with their rapidly expanding grasp of new theoretical and practical tactics to fight traitors, to have changed how Legion Tactical Squads work to be better equipped to face a variety of enemies.

[Kirsten]

I would buy two of those sets.

[Mr Mystery]

Hmmmm.

If you're pondering what I'm pondering.....could this be not Heresy, but The Scourging, which immediately followed the Heresy?

[Filthy Casual]

Hmmmm.

If you're pondering what I'm pondering.....could this be not Heresy, but The Scourging, which immediately followed the Heresy?

I don't know about that, it's certainly a possibility. We don't know a whole lot about that period and so its plausible traitors would have passed through Ultramar on their way to hide but it's the other end of the galaxy from the Eye of Terror so they'd be really lost.

I think Great Crusade would have been a good choice for a setting, loads of opportunities for Xenos and then still scope for Astartes fighting at the end, but only having MK IV and Cataphractii pretty much rules that out as those were both very late in the Crusade. Of course what we really all want is a Necromunda style pre-Unification Wars Techno-Barbarian Skirmish game on Terra, right? Muscled up, proto-Power Armoured, mohawked barbarians with chainswords? Yes please.

[Haighus]

If it was the Scouring I would expect the armour to be more varied and similar to the 40k Tactical squad though, as Heresy 'pattern' armour was widespread, and MkVI and Mk VII armour were used by the loyalists by then, and the easier to produce patterns of Terminator armour more common. To me, the equipment is too GC era for it to be likely to be the Scouring, too uniform. The special and heavy weapons don't make a whole lot of sense, but this could just be the usual GW approach of give every potential option.

[YorkNecromancer]

So I'm not up to speed on my HH unit options, but are all the reg marines all bolter equipped? I see some other fancy weapons, and a missile launcher. What about the termies?

Thanx in advance.

In FW's army list, special/heavy equipment distribution breaks down as follows:


Tactical Squads number 10-20 men. Troops choice. They all have bolters, and have no options for any other type of weapon. They get a special rule that basically enables them to shoot twice at the cost of next turn's shooting.
Tactical Support Squads number 5-10 men. Troops choice. They all have flamers, but can replace those with any special weapon they like; everyone must have the same weapon. Graviton guns are an option, but they are not Grav-guns; they're essentially the stage before the development of 40K grav weaponry, so they're an area denial weapon at this stage, not an anti-heavy infantry one. They also have access to Rotor Cannon (which look like Assault Cannon, but which have the statline of a multi-shot lasgun) and Volkite weaponry, which is fairly good. These squads may not be taken as compulsory troop choices for any FOC.
Devastator Squads number 5-10 men. Heavy support choice. They all have heavy bolters, but can replace them with any heavy weapon they like; everyone must have the same weapon. Note that there are no 'bolter' marines in the squad; everyone carries a heavy weapon, meaning you can field a frankly absurd number of Plasma cannon or Autocannon.



There are a variety of other squad types, but these three are the ones which use the special/heavy weapons included in the Mk IV sprues, so it looks like the HH game they're releasing is pretty much going to have to have a different structure to the army list.

It could be that the Legion list released so far represents early-Heresy disposition; it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that the new game represents the mid-Heresy period where new tactics were being adopted. After all, at the start of the Heresy, the Legions weren't designed to/used to fighting one another. As the war progressed, it seems very likely their strategies and squad designs would have changed.

[Erik Setzer]

I'd probably get a couple boxes. Sure, I'd prefer MkIII because it looks cooler for my Iron Warriors, but still, this would give me a nice base of infantry and a couple of Contemptors, and I could probably convert some of the Cataphractii to have cyclones for the special IW unit. For most people, this will give them everything but vehicles and maybe heavy weapon units.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I'd probably get a couple boxes. Sure, I'd prefer MkIII because it looks cooler for my Iron Warriors, but still, this would give me a nice base of infantry and a couple of Contemptors, and I could probably convert some of the Cataphractii to have cyclones for the special IW unit. For most people, this will give them everything but vehicles and maybe heavy weapon units.

bit of a shame it isn't the IW/IF matchup rumoured previously, but I thought that sounded too cool to be true to be fair. I prefer MKIII also. Still sounds like an amazing though...

[Black Flame]

Are we sure that those sprue full of bits ar coming from the theoretical starter set, or is part of a box like the new tactical squad?

The richness GW offered to us lately in theit starters is well known, but, none of them so rich in options like a 3-set full tactical squad with 3 special weapons, 2 heavy weapons, and a fully customizable sergeant with a lot of both shoot and melee special options.

To me sounds that the clampack will probably be in the starter, but not sure regarding the "veteran tactical squad" (as FW call that particular layout), and I'm thinking more to a 3-pieces space marines for the starter, it's unusual to have such a lot options in a starter

[Bigred]

via an anonymous Faeit source (http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Faeit212/~3/srhNubfOCSU/betrayal-at-calth-hex-based-game-board.html) 8-30-2015

Horus Heresy Plastic Boxed Game


Game Title: "Betrayal at Calth"
Type: Boardgame - hex based board
Dice: D6s w/ custom symbols

[Kirsten]

Are we sure that those sprue full of bits ar coming from the theoretical starter set, or is part of a box like the new tactical squad?

The richness GW offered to us lately in theit starters is well known, but, none of them so rich in options like a 3-set full tactical squad with 3 special weapons, 2 heavy weapons, and a fully customizable sergeant with a lot of both shoot and melee special options.

possible, but then with the Heresy offerings previously being an older player's game (given costs and skill required to build compared to plastic) it could be that GW envisage a more mature take up of the set. not so much a starter set for beginners, but a product for the veterans who will spend a lot of money on Forge World extras. not much point releasing heresy marines if you can't put FW shoulder pads and upgrade sets on them...

[Black Flame]

Well, that should be really nice and I appreciate a lot.

I marry your idea of an implementation set for HH fan..
But... Don't know.. At that point why simply not put out a "battalion" box set?

[Kirsten]

well a 'new game' might have more of a mass appeal, of a better excuse to make it limited edition. hell, maybe it is just some cool rules somebody came up with and wanted to implement, and this was a handy way to do it.

[Black Flame]

With the last rumor of an hex-based game seem more similar to a reboot of mighty/galactic empire campaign set. But again, why with minis?

GW holy misteries.

[Bigred]

via Warseer's Wintermute (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412928-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015-Mk-II&p=7526089&viewfull=1#post7526089)


It is Ultramarines vs Word Bearers.

According to my sources: the rules are not 8th Ed and they haven't been Sigmared simplified. The major difference is that the 'read this first' sections and the reference cards have simple to follow tables. For example the BS rule instead of being the traditional 'BS3 =4+' style in fact has the BS as '4+'. All other rules are as per 7th edition which will also be in the box.

I can tell you there are no points values in the box its intended to be a stand alone game but it will teach the basics of 7th Ed.

(Editor's note - Regarding price of the game): I was hoping you wouldn't ask me that. What would you pay?

The HH Box will (hopefully) be available to buy at the 40k Open Day in October.

[Erik Setzer]

possible, but then with the Heresy offerings previously being an older player's game (given costs and skill required to build compared to plastic) it could be that GW envisage a more mature take up of the set. not so much a starter set for beginners, but a product for the veterans who will spend a lot of money on Forge World extras. not much point releasing heresy marines if you can't put FW shoulder pads and upgrade sets on them...

I'm not so sure the recent starter sets have been entirely geared toward beginners... The Sigmarines especially required someone to have a clue what they're doing. But maybe AoS was a special case, since the last WFB and 40K starter boxes both had snap-fit models (though they're both a few years old by now).

I actually think it's very possible more because of the cost effectiveness to GW. They can just make one type of sprue for a squad and sell it in this box and separately. Why spend more on creating multiple sets of molds when you only need to create one set?

[Bigred]

via Warseer's grissom2006 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412928-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015-Mk-II/page14)9-18-2015

Regarding the Plastic Horus Heresy Boxed Set:


Well according to my sources within GW the price tag floating around in here of it being £95 is wrong and it's going to be a three figure price tag. Not going to say the amount as it would be all to easily sourced back to my source. As for those after a release date start thinking about the end of October (expected preorders) start of November time (actual release).

...I'll expand slightly on the thinking behind why the pricing is likely to be in the realms of what i keep on hearing. The current think is that GW is looking at three gaming systems AOS being the first stage entry level gaming quick to pick up and play and complete with free rules. 40K more complex game to play and greater cost due to codices add ons etc.. Horus Hersey being the top end of the gaming spectrum and aimed at veterans/experienced gamers supposedly complete with even more complex rules.

Ohh and just to add into the mix there may not be just one set release but TWO!!

...I can see how one can think Marine on Marine will be simpler. But the formations the weapons the specialist rules that each chapter had could be become a lot more engaging and much bigger than that of the chapter tactics we currently have. We are talking about an era in which the Primarchs were in command not a set of chapter masters that we currently have. A marine is a remarkable creation but that could never achieve what the Primarchs could. There are units that operated weapons and other things all lost with the Hersey. The game is set while all that stuff is very much still there for use and hasn't become the stuff of legends and myths. So there is plenty of scope for it to be more complex even if the basic starting block isn't that gets supplied in the box which is meant to be PACKED to the GILLS.

[Cutter]

"it's going to be a three figure price tag."

Golf clap.

[Filthy Casual]

I think he's referring to pounds sterling, where GW have very rarely ever broken the £100 mark for a single box.

The rest of the text is really wishlisty though and I wouldn't trust it, especially as they don't seem to be aware that the FW HH game is a thing.

[Defenestratus]

None too pleased with the "veterans" edition being the one that's a boring tin can on tin can dickpunching contest.

[Erik Setzer]

Okay, wait a minute... The company keeps swearing they're not a game company and gamers are a tiny part of their business, but the one game aimed at "veteran" gamers (a very small part, and one it sounds they don't even want) is the most expensive one, least likely to be attractive price wise? Okay, maybe they just assume that the five or six customers they believe they have who are "veterans" will just pay whatever price they put, and for some people that's true. But for a starter set that's a horrible idea.

Then again, so is having a starter set that's no longer simple for new modelers to assemble, and they've done that this year. So... yeah. Sounds about right.

[Filthy Casual]

Fewer customers = higher price to recoup investment.

If people are interested in a more complicated game (taking the rumour, which is dodgy as ****, to be true) they are likely to pay more for it, you know, because as you always say, the veterans are the ones with money to spend...

[Psychosplodge]

That's a mental threshold that really makes you stop and think. I bought the Bangles starer on a whim cause it was about £70? iirc, same with the assassin game. But I highly doubt I'd impulse buy a boxset that's passed the £100 barrier. Certainly wouldn't be getting a second like I was considering at the estimated £70-£80 of the last couple of sets.

[Filthy Casual]

For the business, the advantage is, once that barrier is passed increases become easier for the consumer to deal with, we're not smart. Look at how long they resisted the £50 barrier and how once it was done, the price increased pretty rapidly.

I wouldn't put any stock in that rumour at all though, its total guesswork from someone who has spoken to their local GW Manager.

[Psychosplodge]

Possibly, but the third digit is a much bigger mental hurdle, at least seems that way to me.

[Mr Mystery]

"it's going to be a three figure price tag."

Golf clap.

All about the content. If there's pooloads squished in there- decent value.

If it's just ponced up Black Reach type stuff - not so much.

Also - I don't think it's what he thinks it is.....WD is making mention of Zone Mortalis - which chimes with other stuff we've been hearing, suggesting it's either an expansion to 40k (relatively doubtful) or a stand alone game - both of which largely nix the 'vets only, NooB' thing.

[Defenestratus]

All about the content. If there's pooloads squished in there- decent value.

If it's just ponced up Black Reach type stuff - not so much.

Calling a spade a spade here - No matter what GW puts out, you'll find it priced reasonably and will be picking it up as soon as you can.


Okay, wait a minute... The company keeps swearing they're not a game company and gamers are a tiny part of their business

They have *no earthly idea* how much of their customer base are gamers since they proudly claimed in an investors letter that they don't do market research, yet according to the latest news from their shareholders meeting, they claim that 80% of their customers are from collectors and painters, not gamers.

If I were a shareholder, I'd be asking for the hard market analysis data that supports that 80% claim. Otherwise GW is lying to shareholders and could be found guilty of misleading investors.

[Filthy Casual]

Everything I've ever seen (included polls on this forum, for example) shows that 20% whose primary interest in the hobby is about playing the games is about right, most people will do all of it but they're mostly in it for the modelling/painting/collecting/socialising aspect and the game is just something that ties all that together. GW weren't saying that only 20% have every played the game, just that its the primary focus for only about 20% of their customers.

I enjoy playing a game every now and then (I play maybe one or two GW games a month on average) but I'm mainly in it for the painting and collecting an army really.

[Psychosplodge]

I'm a collector for the most part, with the vast majority still bnib/blister...

[Erik Setzer]

The third figure is a hurdle for a lot of people. Given the conversion rate and that they like to tack on extra for the US, we're probably looking at $200 or so. That's going to turn off a lot of people.

It does depend on the box whether some people will get it or not, but those are people who are probably leaning more toward getting it anyway, existing customers who are into the Horus Heresy. If it's a good bit more value than something like Deathstorm or Stormclaw, I'd go for it.

But I'm an outlier. The people who are most likely to buy a boxed set at that price point are people with some serious disposable income who are also into these games, and that's not really a big customer base. It's also harder to push something with that kind of price point through the book stores, toy stores, and hobby stores they're wanting to move into (especially if they insist on not allowing a discount).

But I also don't get the idea that they'd aim this at just veterans. It's mostly Space Marines, their top sellers, the guys who have such wide appeal that they made fantasy versions of them for the fantasy reboot. You'd think that would appeal to a lot of people, and be a good way to introduce people to the hobby. Why limit it, then?

We've had conflicting reports on that, though, so... grains of salt and all that, right?

I did hear through someone I trust that it'll be in November. Nothing really beyond that, unfortunately. Guess we'll see then!

[spagunk]

Can I be both? As in, I collect things with the intention to play at some point?

I mean, I am not going to buy some chaos marines to only sit on my desk. I am going to buy chaos marines with the intention of having my blood angels eradicate heretics with impunity via cubical number generators.

[Charon]

Everything I've ever seen (included polls on this forum, for example) shows that 20% whose primary interest in the hobby is about playing the games is about right, most people will do all of it but they're mostly in it for the modelling/painting/collecting/socialising aspect and the game is just something that ties all that together. GW weren't saying that only 20% have every played the game, just that its the primary focus for only about 20% of their customers.

First of all. No.
It was nearly 50% on this forum who voted on primary gaming (narrative or otherwise). Some of the rest who voted "painting" even commented that they chose painting because that is what they do most of the time but they would not paint a single GW model without the game in the background to collect, model or paint models for.

Second. If that was really really really true, there was no reason to publish AOS. I mean AOS is just a game like WHFB was. The minis are the same to paint, collect, assemble and model. If the majority of their clients would not care about the game at all, there is no reason to publish games at all. Let that do other companies and just supply miniatures like every other miniature company out there,
They do know damn well that the game is a big reason why people do buy their products and buy multiples of the same model/unit.

[Kirsten]

a three digit price is hardly surprising for the kind of contents that are being rumoured. the thirty tactical marines alone get it to practically that point, two characters, ten terminators, a dread, and possibly some sort of dread killer make this still incredible value at £120.

as I have said before, these were never going to be push fit starter models, that would be a total waste of time.

[Erik Setzer]

Dark Vengeance showed what they can do with push-fit. Still, I didn't expect that here, because I imagine they're going to save production costs by just using the same stuff in the starter box and other boxes. (I am, however, surprised the "entry-level" AoS didn't go push-fit.)

If it has a lot of stuff, it'd justify the price tag, but at the same time, a smaller box with a smaller price is more likely to get buyers. You want to get someone's foot in the door, right? But if the comments that this is aimed toward the extremely small number of "veteran hobbyists" are true, then I guess it makes sense to not worry about attracting new people.

[Kirsten]

it doesn't matter what the quality of the push fit stuff is, the Heresy release was never going to be in that format because it needs to be compatible with Forge World.

as for the price, it depends on the set. this isn't necessarily a starter set, and so doesn't need to get people interested. the space marines are always massive, and the Heresy has been hugely popular.

[General Lee]

anything news to report?

[Bigred]

Putting it all together:

via Warseer's Grissim2006 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412928-Horus-Heresy-Plastics-in-late-2015-Mk-II&p=7551483#post7551483) over the last couple of months


"I've actually heard they are going with a plastic Contemptor kit and heard it off multiple sources who've never once in 15+ yrs steered me wrong.

The think with starter box sets the plastics for the core games in them are never designed in line with how the rest of the plastic ranges go. They are designed to be simpler in the putting together because they are design as a hobby starter kit as such they make it as easy as possible to get a person up and running with the core basics supplied in the box. With HH they know at the end of the day they do not need not to this marketing ploy the other whelming majority of sales are going to be coming from experienced hobbiests.

Well according to my sources within GW the price tag floating around in here of it being £95 is wrong and it's going to be a three figure price tag.

I'll expand slightly on the thinking behind why the pricing is likely to be in the realms of what i keep on hearing. The current think is that GW is looking at three gaming systems AOS being the first stage entry level gaming quick to pick up and play and complete with free rules. 40K more complex game to play and greater cost due to codices add ons etc.. Horus Hersey being the top end of the gaming spectrum and aimed at veterans/experienced gamers supposedly complete with even more complex rules.

Ohh and just to add into the mix there may not be just one set release but TWO!!

I can see how one can think Marine on Marine will be simpler. But the formations the weapons the specialist rules that each chapter had could be become a lot more engaging and much bigger than that of the chapter tactics we currently have. We are talking about an era in which the Primarchs were in command not a set of chapter masters that we currently have. A marine is a remarkable creation but that could never achieve what the Primarchs could. There are units that operated weapons and other things all lost with the Hersey. The game is set while all that stuff is very much still there for use and hasn't become the stuff of legends and myths. So there is plenty of scope for it to be more complex even if the basic starting block isn't that gets supplied in the box which is meant to be PACKED to the GILLS.

Right guys you need to keep yourselves at the ready for dates the 7th and 14th of November ;)

As to the what you can expect i already hinted on that pages back that it wasn't planned at being a single box release or a stand alone release."

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The think with starter box sets the plastics for the core games in them are never designed in line with how the rest of the plastic ranges go. They are designed to be simpler in the putting together But we've already seen leaks of the plastic Heresy marines that were designed in the style of a standard Power Armour box set. Hmm.

[Mr Mystery]

Yarp.

Though it might be worth noting that the recent campaign boxes feature a unique special character, and sprues otherwise available in their own box.

It's literally the starter sets (Dark Vengeance and AoS) which feature simplified kits.

I'm not sure about the above rumours....can anyone confirm if the originator has good form?

[Defenestratus]

As an almost exclusive Xenos player (and really only grudgingly have a token imperial force) this development of 30k as the "veterans" edition is very, very scary.

The fragmentation of an already sparse player base could be catastrophic for someone like me who would rather keep playing my pointy-ears than blow the dust off of my BA/GK.

[Mr Mystery]

If there's any truth to it whatsoever.

It could be as simple as plasticification of the more basic HH kits, freeing up FW to focus on the swankier stuff. There's already lots of units not realised in model form, and as they go along that list is just expanding.

Put out the basics in plastics (including stuff like weapons and shoulder pads) and the design team can then produce the natty stuff as their priority.

So far as I can tell, about the only thing we know for sure is that a dual character sprue and multi-part 'phwoar those are nice' MkIV plastics are on the way. The rest is just rumours.

Remember, at this stage with AoS many would-be rumour mongers were waaaaaay off the mark still.

[Path Walker]

Plastic armour kits mean the most common complaint I've seen about playing Horus Heresy (buying expensive models and then having loads of parts left over when you buy the Legion upgrade sets) isn't going to be as contentious an issue.

I don't think anything serious about "tiers" of the game is every likely to occur, they want people to play all their games and be able to buy as many models as they want, they won't want to restrict people and they don't want to stop parents buying them a massive expensive Horus Hersey box for Christmas!

People have been talking about the tiers of play idea for ages and its just never panned out that way at all.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Good, I can get cracking on a Shattered Legion force

[Bigred]

via Squiggly (https://disqus.com/by/disqus_9kDU0zOo6w/) (DISQUS) 2-25-2016


"Basically the calth stuff will be released in boxes labelled for 30k and 40k. The HH range is a big thing, and a handful of kits is not a "big thing"

I know the Mechanicum models were intended to be Heresy models too. So I suspect they too will get repacked as 30k/40k models when the range is launched. Or soon after.

Yes the 40k Mechanicum stuff is all labelled all same, but it is split into two factions. They were intended to be one 40k faction and one 30k faction.

I hope that makes more sense."

[Path Walker]

Lords of War Gaming on FB pretty much just laughed at those rumours, Squiggly has been right about pretty much just the Deathwatch game so far, so I think that needs to be taken into consideration.

[Bigred]

via a very reliable source who spoke to BoLS on condition of anonymity:


We have been hearing for several weeks now of the Sequel to Betrayal at Calth. One long, long term rumormonger with a fantastic record chimed in with these tidbits:


The sequel to Betrayal at Calth is real.
It is scheduled for SEPTEMBER 2016.
The kit itself is being manufactured as a stand alone game by GW proper, as the previous boxed games have been, but the exact sprue contents being Heresy relates are pretty much dictated by Forge World. This ensures they will fit in nice and neatly with existing and future planned Forge World Horus Heresy kits.
Games Workshop is very much committed to continuing to push and expand the Horus Heresy line into a bigger part of the business - one that is reported as ALREADY outselling Age of Sigmar!
The new kit will feature plastic sprues with Mark III armor.

[grimmas]

Nice. If it's anything like the miniature content we got in BaC we'll all be rocking proper sized Heresy forces in short order. It probably cost the same as my 10 man squad of MK IIIs did in resin (it got out hand 😳)

[Psychosplodge]

Pads, torsos, helmets, weapons, and bording shields? :rolleyes:

[Kirsten]

boarding marines would be awesome

[Psychosplodge]

I was just thinking for him to make a ten man squad cost the same as a boxset :D

[grimmas]

Pads, torsos, helmets, weapons, and bording shields? :rolleyes:

That's about right. They just kept bringing out more stuff 😳