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Legoklods
02-15-2010, 10:56 AM
So a guy I play with on a regular basis has this extremely cheasy Witch Hunter armylist.
There are 4 normal squads in rhinos with sister superior and a lot of gear! all stuff that means hes got another flamer there, martyrdom, and things that means he never ever fails a test of faith.

He also got a land raider full of grey knight teminators who rape where ever they go, a "super-nun" with jump pack, along with some more jump packers, and an exorcist.

The army starts out with around 7 faith points, but it can NEVER:eek: run out because when finally kill something he gets a point and he can use them all the time to shoot my marines with ap 1 and when I hit him with something he has invl 3+.

The only army that I have seen ever to do well against this was an IG list with a lot of lasguns. the quantity of the fire power made his faith points wothless but I can't really do the same with space wolves.
I tried sniping the superiors with jaws of the world wolf but a psyhood ruined it.

So what do I do?

Necrosis
02-15-2010, 11:05 AM
Get into close combat asap. If your unable to do that, shot them from far range. Take a few squads of long fangs to kill their thanks. They will be very usefully since they can shot at two different targets and the sister player won't have much long range anti tank.

mathhammer
02-15-2010, 12:00 PM
Space wolves should destroy the sisters in CC.

Use long fangs or something else to blow up the rhinos.

Each of your squads need 2 meltaguns + powerfist. Meltagun Landraider, shoot the pistols then charge.

Also go and read the Sisters of Battle and WHEN they can use their faith points. 7 points should run out fast. With that many gear upgrades you should be able to steamroll them.

Fellend
02-15-2010, 01:15 PM
Are you even allowed to have GK's and Sisters in the same army?

trjames
02-15-2010, 01:23 PM
Are you even allowed to have GK's and Sisters in the same army?


Yes. Never read the WH Codex, but the DH codex specifically allows it.

Ordo
02-15-2010, 02:39 PM
definitly get into close combat. i play space wolves also. if you have a wolf lord give him saga of the bear for the eternal warrior rule. and definitly take a few long fangs. other wise you should run throungh them in close combat no problem. what exactly do you use on ur list

doublek666
02-15-2010, 05:35 PM
These guys have nailed it, on how to counter that army. Heavy Weapons and Close Combat.

DarkLink
02-15-2010, 10:17 PM
So a guy I play with on a regular basis has this extremely cheasy Witch Hunter armylist.
There are 4 normal squads in rhinos with sister superior and a lot of gear! all stuff that means hes got another flamer there, martyrdom, and things that means he never ever fails a test of faith.

He also got a land raider full of grey knight teminators who rape where ever they go, a "super-nun" with jump pack, along with some more jump packers, and an exorcist.

The army starts out with around 7 faith points, but it can NEVER:eek: run out because when finally kill something he gets a point and he can use them all the time to shoot my marines with ap 1 and when I hit him with something he has invl 3+.

The only army that I have seen ever to do well against this was an IG list with a lot of lasguns. the quantity of the fire power made his faith points wothless but I can't really do the same with space wolves.
I tried sniping the superiors with jaws of the world wolf but a psyhood ruined it.

So what do I do?

First off, read both DH and WH codices. Particularly the allying rules.

I'm assuming he's using WH as his core army, and allying in the Grey Knights. The only way to get a Land Raider in a WH army is to take it as a dedicated transport for an Inquisitor. The Grey Knight Terminators may not take it as a dedicated transport. This requires him to buy an Inquisitor squad, which I didn't hear you mention. Remember that in this case, the GKT's may not start the game in the Land Raider.

Additionally, WH Land Raiders use the old Land Raider rules. That means a BS 2 Machine Spirit, and no LR Crusaders.

In the WH codex, read up on Faith points. Not sure how well you currently understand them, but it sounds like you have the basics. Keep that page of the codex open, to make sure your opponent is using the correct rolls for each power. Some powers require 2d6 over the squad, some under. IC's use a Ld test when on their own. It sounds like he has the upgrade that lets him roll 3d6, pick two.

He also must use certain powers (like the 3+ invulnerable save) at the begging of the phase. He can't wait until you've started shooting at a particular unit to tell you 'ok, I'm going to use Spirit of the Martyr'.




rules aside:

Don't bother with psychic powers. Psychic hoods will just stop them too often to be effective. Plus, you will want an I 5 character that is good in CC. That precludes Librarians. I'd go with Wolf Lords and Battle Group Leaders with Frost Blades and some basic wargear.

Get into CC with Sisters, as mentioned. Don't let him flamer/rapidfire your units. This means transports for everyone, no exceptions. And spread your people out.

Shoot his exorcist, then focus on his transports. Once the Sisters are outside, you can drive up and assault them.

For the Sisters, remember that there is no faith point against weight of fire. Ignore Plasma and such, just pour as much bolter fire and CC attacks into the Sisters as you can.





For the GKT's, don't let them assault you. Ignore them if you can. They are a very expensive unit. If you have to deal with them, then rive up and melta the Land Raider, or kill it however you have to. Then Plasma/Melta the GK's. 5+ invulnerable saves won't save them. If you have to assault them, use stuff with I 5. A SW lord with a Frost Blade and appropriate wargear will

Now, if he has a Grand Master in the squad, then definitely just avoid it if possible. It will be nearly a 400 point unit, and it doesn't sound like you run any armies that can deal with it well. A full squad of GKT's on the charge will kill their points worth of any non-I5 units quickly, from Nobz to Thunderwolves. Even a unit of TH/SS Terminators will fold under weight of attacks. The Terminators can easily be wiped out with a powerful counter charge unit, or sufficient shooting after they win their combat, though.



Oh, and DON'T take Saga of the Bear. It will be useless. Unless you're letting him shoot your lord with the Exorcist, he will have almost nothing that will inflict Instant Death on your lord. Not worth the 35pts.

And remember, Grey Knight Grand Master force weapons follow the old rules for force weapons. Meaning that they ignore Eternal Warrior.

Sarkan Bloodfist
02-15-2010, 11:36 PM
Lego

I have alot of experience fighting sisters. As a chaos and occasional marine player my opinion is that a good sisters player can deny you any but the slimmest chance of winning.

This is what I've learned over many, many games. I've only beaten this army twice - once when my opponent didnt know how to use them, and once out of like one hundred games with a good player who tried to rhino rush across open ground more than 4 feet away.

1. sisters of battle rhinos are your primary targets. If they can't flame you they can't win.

2. do not allow the cannoness to close with your hq choices. properly equipped she will always win. if you jump her with a squad of close combat specialists you have a good chance of getting through her 2+ invulnerable save because she's ws 3 tn 3 and doesn't have very many attacks.

3. to beat sisters in assault you must multi-charge their units. otherwise you will win the combat only to get flamed by the squad behind it, and at 11 points a piece sisters generals usually dont mind trading their squads for yours on a 1 for 1 basis.

4. remove any monstrous creatures or expensive units that suffer from instant death from your list; three exorcists working together can destroy almost any of these targets in one turn. use infantry to carry big guns rather than vehicles - three exorcists working together can easily kill any armored target less than av 14 in one turn.

5. take psychic powers out of your list. psychic hood and shield of faith working together give them a very good chance of nullifying them, turning them into an erratic asset at best and a point sink at worst.

6. work on one sister squad at a time. if the flamers are alive the squad is still extremely dangerous; if you leave just a couple of them alive they're likely to turn their armor saves invulnerable. the few survivors will be almost as effective as the whole squad but much more difficult to eliminate.

7. weight of fire tends to win over a few high strength low ap attacks because sisters are low toughness but every armor save is potentially invulnerable.

8. don't take it personally if you lose. it's not a fair fight.

good luck.

Polonius
02-16-2010, 11:55 AM
Most of the advice here has been really good. It sounds like you don't really understand how his army works, so spend some time reading the WH (and DH) codices until you know the rules solidly. Sisters and Necron players sometimes have an unsavory rep because they have old, relatively obscure armies with tons of fiddly rules, and it can be hard to tell when the rules really are that good, they're confused about the rules, or when they're outright cheating.

nothing should enable them to pass all Faith Tests, although the Simulacrum thing will allow them to roll and extra dice and discard one. They can only use each simulacrum once per turn. Make sure to keep track of faith points, as some of the powers can eat them up pretty quickly.

Sisters are great at short range, but not at long range or in combat. Shoot them at range, and then rush in for the kill.

Spirit of the Maryter (the invulnerable save power) only lasts for a single phase. If you can, try shooting a unit with AP3, and then charging it with power weapons. He'll either burn faith faster or lose models.

The rhino Hulls are the weak point. Knock out his mobility and he can't reach out.

For pure wolves, consider hitting him back with a horde of mechanized power armor. Take grey hunters with a melta and a power weapon in rhinos, plenty of long fangs for knocking out rhinos, and a landraider to get there in style for your lord, and just wear him down with attacks.

DarkLink
02-16-2010, 11:22 PM
Most of the advice here has been really good. It sounds like you don't really understand how his army works, so spend some time reading the WH (and DH) codices until you know the rules solidly. Sisters and Necron players sometimes have an unsavory rep because they have old, relatively obscure armies with tons of fiddly rules, and it can be hard to tell when the rules really are that good, they're confused about the rules, or when they're outright cheating.

Right, if he gets stuff wrong I wouldn't necessarily blame him. They're rather complicated in some places.



nothing should enable them to pass all Faith Tests, although the Simulacrum thing will allow them to roll and extra dice and discard one. They can only use each simulacrum once per turn. Make sure to keep track of faith points, as some of the powers can eat them up pretty quickly.

There's the Simulacrum, and Litanies of Faith. However, Litanies is a one use only item.



Sisters are great at short range, but not at long range or in combat. Shoot them at range, and then rush in for the kill.

The only ranged weapons in his army are Exorcists and the Land Raider.



Spirit of the Maryter (the invulnerable save power) only lasts for a single phase. If you can, try shooting a unit with AP3, and then charging it with power weapons. He'll either burn faith faster or lose models.

Right, and he must use it at the beginning of that phase. Meaning he has to predict what unit you will try to shoot. Pop his Rhinos, and let him waste Faith Points guessing.



For pure wolves, consider hitting him back with a horde of mechanized power armor. Take grey hunters with a melta and a power weapon in rhinos, plenty of long fangs for knocking out rhinos, and a landraider to get there in style for your lord, and just wear him down with attacks.

I'd agree.

Legoklods
02-18-2010, 01:53 PM
First off, read both DH and WH codices. Particularly the allying rules.

I'm assuming he's using WH as his core army, and allying in the Grey Knights. The only way to get a Land Raider in a WH army is to take it as a dedicated transport for an Inquisitor. The Grey Knight Terminators may not take it as a dedicated transport. This requires him to buy an Inquisitor squad, which I didn't hear you mention. Remember that in this case, the GKT's may not start the game in the Land Raider.

Additionally, WH Land Raiders use the old Land Raider rules. That means a BS 2 Machine Spirit, and no LR Crusaders.

In the WH codex, read up on Faith points. Not sure how well you currently understand them, but it sounds like you have the basics. Keep that page of the codex open, to make sure your opponent is using the correct rolls for each power. Some powers require 2d6 over the squad, some under. IC's use a Ld test when on their own. It sounds like he has the upgrade that lets him roll 3d6, pick two.

He also must use certain powers (like the 3+ invulnerable save) at the begging of the phase. He can't wait until you've started shooting at a particular unit to tell you 'ok, I'm going to use Spirit of the Martyr'.




rules aside:

Don't bother with psychic powers. Psychic hoods will just stop them too often to be effective. Plus, you will want an I 5 character that is good in CC. That precludes Librarians. I'd go with Wolf Lords and Battle Group Leaders with Frost Blades and some basic wargear.

Get into CC with Sisters, as mentioned. Don't let him flamer/rapidfire your units. This means transports for everyone, no exceptions. And spread your people out.

Shoot his exorcist, then focus on his transports. Once the Sisters are outside, you can drive up and assault them.

For the Sisters, remember that there is no faith point against weight of fire. Ignore Plasma and such, just pour as much bolter fire and CC attacks into the Sisters as you can.





For the GKT's, don't let them assault you. Ignore them if you can. They are a very expensive unit. If you have to deal with them, then rive up and melta the Land Raider, or kill it however you have to. Then Plasma/Melta the GK's. 5+ invulnerable saves won't save them. If you have to assault them, use stuff with I 5. A SW lord with a Frost Blade and appropriate wargear will

Now, if he has a Grand Master in the squad, then definitely just avoid it if possible. It will be nearly a 400 point unit, and it doesn't sound like you run any armies that can deal with it well. A full squad of GKT's on the charge will kill their points worth of any non-I5 units quickly, from Nobz to Thunderwolves. Even a unit of TH/SS Terminators will fold under weight of attacks. The Terminators can easily be wiped out with a powerful counter charge unit, or sufficient shooting after they win their combat, though.



Oh, and DON'T take Saga of the Bear. It will be useless. Unless you're letting him shoot your lord with the Exorcist, he will have almost nothing that will inflict Instant Death on your lord. Not worth the 35pts.

And remember, Grey Knight Grand Master force weapons follow the old rules for force weapons. Meaning that they ignore Eternal Warrior.
Thank you. That was a lot of good information sir.

DarkLink
02-18-2010, 03:31 PM
Thank you. That was a lot of good information sir.

Heh, I figured I could lend a hand, being a Grey Knight/Sisters player:D.